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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 2. Nc3 g6 ? (Read 20849 times)
Fllg
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #17 - 04/04/15 at 14:10:39
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Lanark wrote on 04/03/15 at 12:55:24:
I believe Kornev recommends 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4, but not 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4, if I am not mistaken.


That´s right but he transposes into the line you have mentioned already after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Qa4. He claims a small edge for White here (which he does in every line he recommends).
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #16 - 04/03/15 at 15:27:02
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3. d4 cd 4. Qxd4 Nf6 5. Bb5 is what was given, some time ago, in NCO and ECO, with the latter giving White's fifth a "!".  Reminds me of Bronstein's 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 cd 4. Qxd4 Nf6 5. Bb5 (about which someone said, "instead of shooting at Goliath, David has shot at nothing").
  
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fling
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #15 - 04/03/15 at 13:34:30
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That is true, my mistake. I haven't studied the book yet, just had a brief look mainly to see what is recommended against the variations I play as Black.
  
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Lanark
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #14 - 04/03/15 at 12:55:24
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fling wrote on 04/03/15 at 12:25:02:
I think this is also what Korneev recommends in Rossolimo and friends.


I believe Kornev recommends 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4, but not 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4, if I am not mistaken.
  
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fling
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #13 - 04/03/15 at 12:25:02
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I think this is also what Korneev recommends in Rossolimo and friends.
  
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Lanark
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #12 - 04/03/15 at 12:04:06
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I have been looking at this old thread and wondered if there have been any developments in the past few years.

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 is an interesting move order if you have the Accelerated Dragon in your repertoire, maybe as a second weapon. Transpositions after 3.Nf3 or 3.Nge2 are no problem and at the very least the Maroczy is avoided this way.

3.g3 Nc6 and 3.f4 Bg7 4.Nf3 Nc6 transpose to Closed and Grand Prix main lines, but the fashionable line 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is avoided, too.

Curiously, the move 3.d4 is hardly mentioned in books. It's the best scoring move in my database though, played by lots of strong players.

After 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 there are 
a) 3...Bg7. This is a "Sniper", when 4.dxc5 seems to give White at least a small edge, if I remember correctly from elsewhere in this forum.
b) 3...cxd4 is mentioned in passing by Gawain Jones (who has played 3.d4 several times himself) in his Grand Prix book:
"4.Qxd4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Qa4 d6 7.e5 gives White a frictional edge".
5.Bb5 is scoring even better, way above average.

Though 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 is played by top players mostly against weaker opposition, I'm still surprised that it is scoring so well in general.

So, any new ideas for the Black side? What would you play: 3...cxd4 or 3...Bg7?
  
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Keano
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #11 - 04/17/08 at 16:49:14
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CheckMate wrote on 03/03/08 at 12:38:24:
Is it anything wrong with the move order 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 g6 ?

Strange enough Rogozenko doesn't cover it in "Anti Sicilians" when he do cover 2 ... Nc6, 2 ... d6 and 2 ... e6.

Is this the preferred move order for Dragon/Acc Dragon players? The nice point is that we can still reach the best defenses against the GPA and Closed, for instance 2. Nc3 g6 3. f4 Nc6! just trasposes. On the contrary 2. Nc3 d6?! 3. f4 is sub optimal for Black.

Or is there some catch?



no catch - 3.d4 is not a worry, nor should 3.h4!?! be
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #10 - 03/06/08 at 14:15:55
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You're right -- the Silman piece dealt with Nf3 not Nc3 -- but the game I analyzed featured both Nf3 and Nc3 before h4 which is why I misremembered it.
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #9 - 03/05/08 at 22:57:50
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urusov wrote on 03/05/08 at 03:39:36:
SOS 6 covers the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.h4!? ("3.h4 in the Hyper-Accelerated Dragon" by Donaldson and Silman)-- though it's not something I'd trust.  I have annotated a game with a related line that can transpose:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2007/12/sicilicide-or-suicide-t...

SOS 5 covers 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 g6 4.a3!? which Nakamura has played.

I rather like the 3.f4 heading for Grand Prix territory.


I thought SOS 6 dealt with 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 [Instead of 2.Nc6] g6 3.h4!?.

I agree with you though that this line can't be trusted, as Black need only play the natural 3...h5 and White already has to be very careful how he proceeds.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #8 - 03/05/08 at 16:56:40
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5. d4 is quite attractive there.
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #7 - 03/05/08 at 14:28:32
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What about 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.f4 Bg7 4.Nf3 e6 ? What's White going to do with Bf1 ?
  

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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #6 - 03/05/08 at 03:39:36
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SOS 6 covers the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.h4!? ("3.h4 in the Hyper-Accelerated Dragon" by Donaldson and Silman)-- though it's not something I'd trust.  I have annotated a game with a related line that can transpose:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2007/12/sicilicide-or-suicide-t...

SOS 5 covers 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 g6 4.a3!? which Nakamura has played.

I rather like the 3.f4 heading for Grand Prix territory.
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #5 - 03/04/08 at 21:21:39
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I play this line with Black. I don't see a catch.

Black avoids 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5, which might not be very scary though.
Black also keeps the option Nbd7.
The alternative 2.Nc3 d6 3.Nf3 is also problematic (or 3.Bb5+ but here White does not have c3 or c4). 3...g6? 4.d4 is very good for White, and 3...Nc6 allows 4.Bb5, but again White has committed to Nc3.
Another option is 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 g6 which is not quite a Dragon yet (6.Nxc6!?).
So Black has to play 3...Nf6, but here White can tease us with 4.e5!? or a King's Indian Attack with 4.g3 where some players prefer the knight on e7 rather than f6. But at least Black avoids the Big clamp (c3).

After 2...g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 the position has some nuances compared to the same line with the knight on f3.
4...Nf6 and now:
a) 5.Nf3 transposes to the other line where 5.Nc3 is a commonly played move.
b) 5.Bb5 a6! is also ok for Black here. The idea is the same as with Nf3. 6.e5 axb5 7.exf6 Nc6 (In the 2.Nf3 g6 line Black can also play 7...e6 here. Since White now has 8.Nxb5 it looks bad, but after 8...Qa5+ Black is probably ok) 8.Qh4 and here Black is deprived the 
ressource Ra8-a4. Still 8...b4 wins a tempo (normally it blocks White's queenside) 9.Nd5 e6 and Black is ok.

Also interesting is 3.h4!? Black should probably reply 3..h5. White does not have a Smith-Morra gambit in hand and should be happy in a regular Dragon.
Either Black reaches the Soltis variation or delays castling if White plays 0-0-0. Then White would probably have preferred to play g4 before h4.
  
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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #4 - 03/03/08 at 22:25:39
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CheckMate wrote on 03/03/08 at 12:38:24:

Is this the preferred move order for Dragon/Acc Dragon players?

No. 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Ne2/3.Nf3 g6 does the job because of 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d6 or Bg7. Or do you play the Dragon without ...Nc6 ?
  

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Re: 2. Nc3 g6 ?
Reply #3 - 03/03/08 at 21:01:15
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That's not true. It's not an improved version of the Hyper Acc, just a different one.
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 g6 3.d4 cd4: 4.Qd4: Nf6 5.Bb5 a6 6.e5 ab5: 7.ef6: e6 (Nc6!?) which is unclear.

After 5.e5 Nc6 the drawback is that the pawn e5 is unprotected so white has to play 6.Qf4 Nh5! 7.Qe3 d5! or 7.Qe4 d6 (f5!?) also with unclear positions.

So I think for an Hyper Acc dragon player 2. ... g6 doesn't have drawbacks, one benefit is that it avoids 2. ... Nc6 3.Bb5!?
  
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