Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Getting Ready To Go Postal (Read 12615 times)
drkodos
God Member
*****
Offline


I see....stars.

Posts: 778
Location: Jupiter, and beyond
Joined: 03/29/07
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #26 - 10/09/08 at 15:33:26
Post Tools
One of my first victories and one in which I come up with a possible novelty (I have not seen it previously and it is not in any db I own)  exchange sacrifice in the opening stages of the Scotch on move 9.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.Nc3 d6 7.a4 a6 8.Nd5 Ba7 9.Bg5 Qxg5! 10.Nxc7+ Ke7 11.Nxa8 Nf6! 12.Qd2 Qh4 13.Bd3 Nxe4 14.Bxe4 Qxe4+ 15.Kd1?! Qxg2 16.Re1+ Be6 17.Nc7 Bxf2 18.Kc1 Ne5 19.Rd1 Nc4 20.Qd3 Qg5+ 21.Nd2 Ne5 22.Qf1 Be3 23.Nxe6 fxe6 24.Ra3 d5! 25.Rb3 Rb8 26.Rxe3!? Qxe3 27.Re1 Qg5 28.Qe2 Kd6 29.Kb1 Rf8 30.Nb3 Qf4 31.Na5 Rf7 32.h4 g6 33.c4 Qf5+ 34.Ka1 Nf3 35.Rd1 d4 36.Nb3 e5 0-1

My esteemed opponent was/is rated @ 2100

 
On move 9, neither Fritz, Rybka, or Hiarcs suggested to play Qxg5, and even immediately afterwards on move 10 showed White with a compelling advantage.  I believe the computer does not understand the latent power of the Two Bishops all that well, and this can sometimes be exploited.  Now, I do not think my opponent was relying on computer, because if so, he would not have played 15 Kd1 ?! (15. Qe2 was better, IMO).   But, had I been relying on silcon power, I might not have not played this sacrifice move, and likely would have punted 9.  ...f6 (which still gives Black a decent enough game in this line).

Even without this error on move 15, Black has full compensation for the sacrificed material and had excellent chances to play for the win in the unbalanced situtaion that has arisen.  The two B's will starting stinging soon. 

Once I grabbed a 2nd pawn for the exchange, I felt the win was in sight because I believe in the simple math that having more army men than the other guy is often more telling than the assumed powers of each individual soldier.

As for Riga(er?), I currently have game in the Berger line (Bg5) that is ongoing and soon as over will comment and post it up in the 1. e4 e5 forum.  I will say this however: I am still certain Black can hold these positions, but must be very crafty and able to play in inferior positions for quite a while without getting frustrated and lashing out.  


Also, now up to 9 wins, 2 loses, 5 draws.

One loss was as Black in Open Ruy Lopez where I followed a recommended line from the Flear book and was a hit with a known improvement that absolutely crushed the entire line, and renders it unplayable to me as Black.  My opponent in this game had Provisional rating of 1800, but is clearly much stronger that that!  I had seen this improvement move played vs. Sokolov, and after a one loss in this line, Sokolov decided to play it again (twice!)  so I mistakenly assumed there was an improvement somewhere for Black, thought I had found it, but was 100% incorrect.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Bg4 11.Bc2 Ne6 12.Re1 Bc5 13.Nf1 Bh5 14.b4! Bb6 15.a4! Ne7 16.Ng3 Bg6 17.Bxg6 Nxg6 18.Nf5 O-O 19.Be3 Bxe3 20.Rxe3 Qd7 21.N3d4 Nxd4 22.Nxd4 Rae8 23.axb5 axb5 24.Qe2 c6 25.g3 f6?? 26.e6 Qc7 27.f4 Ne7 28.Qa2 Rb8 29.Qa7 Rb7 30.Qc5 Qb6 31.Qxb6 Rxb6 32.Ra7 Re8 33.Re2 f5 34.Rea2 g6 35.Rd7 Kg7 36.Raa7 Kf6 37.h4 h6 38.Kf2 0-1



My other loss I was simply ground into the dust by a superior player in the venerable Vienna Game when I missed my chances for counter play with a timely ...d5.  It's very ugly and embarassing, but I will share it anyway:

1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nc6 4.d3 Na5 5.Nge2 c6 6.a3 Nxc4 7.dxc4 d6 8.Qd3 Be7 9.O-O O-O 10.h3 Be6 11.b3 Qc7 12.f4 a6?? (d5!?)  13.f5 Bd7 14.Bg5 b5 15.Ng3 bxc4 16.bxc4 h6 17.Bxf6 Bxf6 18.Nh5 Bh4 19.Rad1 Qa5 20.Rf3 Qc5+ 21.Kh2 Be8 22.Rg3 g6 23.Rg4 Be7 24.f6 Bd8 25.Na4 Qd4 26.Qe2 Qa7 27.Rxd6  1-0

Feel free to mock me for my inferior play in this game.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3170
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #25 - 10/09/08 at 10:37:03
Post Tools
I deleted a couple of posts to see if that brought this thread back to life, sorry to the respective authors! It seems that putting the 'FEN' tags in without a diagram causes the program to get confused! Huh
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #24 - 09/29/08 at 13:43:49
Post Tools
Quote:
The Riga is still alive for Black!  When I finally figure out how to clip up games and diagrams, I believe I have some interesting stuff and will slap it up here.

Please start the discussion in the e4e5 section - I am really curios about your thought of 8.Bg5 (Berger)  Smiley

PS: use 'fen' for diagrams - between these two copy the position from your chess program
« Last Edit: 10/09/08 at 10:34:42 by GMTonyKosten »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #23 - 09/29/08 at 11:18:58
Post Tools
TimS wrote on 09/29/08 at 09:52:30:
drkodos wrote on 09/29/08 at 01:01:30:
A 6 Month Update:

I have finished 12 games with a score of 5+ 2- 5=  Not great, but not too shabby...I guess....  I have 18 more in progress with 3 winning positions, one losing, three drawish and 11 unclear or too soon to tell.  It's been a blast and I'm about to start another round of six.

Observations:

~ Relying solely upon a computer will not provide one with many victories.
~ A completely different repertoire is required from my otb exploits, so it has increased the amount of material I need to continually review.
~ Original play is very important!  But it must be sound and principled, or it is brutally rebuked.
~ Using this site has been VERY helpful to keep up with many lines.
~ The Riga is still alive for Black!  When I finally figure out how to clip up games and diagrams, I believe I have some interesting stuff and will slap it up here.


What has changed:

~ I'm not as motivated to drive several hours to sit at the board for ten hours a day over the weekend, but I still feel it is a better and truer test of one's total chess acumen.
~ A deeper respect for the entire pursuit and its participants has developed.
~ I no longer believe a good PC alone will get one a CC title. 
~ I have realized a chessic bi-polar characteristic:  both my Blitz rating and CC ratings will be significantly higher than my otb rating.  



Interesting stuff. Keep us posted. Would be interested in knowing why you won the games you did and why you lost the ones you did ...


Yes: welcome to the dark side...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TimS
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 458
Location: London
Joined: 11/02/05
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #22 - 09/29/08 at 09:52:30
Post Tools
drkodos wrote on 09/29/08 at 01:01:30:
A 6 Month Update:

I have finished 12 games with a score of 5+ 2- 5=  Not great, but not too shabby...I guess....  I have 18 more in progress with 3 winning positions, one losing, three drawish and 11 unclear or too soon to tell.  It's been a blast and I'm about to start another round of six.

Observations:

~ Relying solely upon a computer will not provide one with many victories.
~ A completely different repertoire is required from my otb exploits, so it has increased the amount of material I need to continually review.
~ Original play is very important!  But it must be sound and principled, or it is brutally rebuked.
~ Using this site has been VERY helpful to keep up with many lines.
~ The Riga is still alive for Black!  When I finally figure out how to clip up games and diagrams, I believe I have some interesting stuff and will slap it up here.


What has changed:

~ I'm not as motivated to drive several hours to sit at the board for ten hours a day over the weekend, but I still feel it is a better and truer test of one's total chess acumen.
~ A deeper respect for the entire pursuit and its participants has developed.
~ I no longer believe a good PC alone will get one a CC title. 
~ I have realized a chessic bi-polar characteristic:  both my Blitz rating and CC ratings will be significantly higher than my otb rating.  



Interesting stuff. Keep us posted. Would be interested in knowing why you won the games you did and why you lost the ones you did ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #21 - 09/29/08 at 02:23:32
Post Tools
I find it hard to believe no one has mentioned the CC sites FICGS and Redhotpawn. I don't play on redhotpawn cause they start everyone off at 1200 rating and you have to play 1200 rated players for way way way too long before you're even allowed a decent game. Though their interface is extremely nice!

However, FICGS is awesome. I love it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
drkodos
God Member
*****
Offline


I see....stars.

Posts: 778
Location: Jupiter, and beyond
Joined: 03/29/07
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #20 - 09/29/08 at 01:01:30
Post Tools
A 6 Month Update:

I have finished 12 games with a score of 5+ 2- 5=  Not great, but not too shabby...I guess....  I have 18 more in progress with 3 winning positions, one losing, three drawish and 11 unclear or too soon to tell.  It's been a blast and I'm about to start another round of six.

Observations:

~ Relying solely upon a computer will not provide one with many victories.
~ A completely different repertoire is required from my otb exploits, so it has increased the amount of material I need to continually review.
~ Original play is very important!  But it must be sound and principled, or it is brutally rebuked.
~ Using this site has been VERY helpful to keep up with many lines.
~ The Riga is still alive for Black!  When I finally figure out how to clip up games and diagrams, I believe I have some interesting stuff and will slap it up here.


What has changed:

~ I'm not as motivated to drive several hours to sit at the board for ten hours a day over the weekend, but I still feel it is a better and truer test of one's total chess acumen.
~ A deeper respect for the entire pursuit and its participants has developed.
~ I no longer believe a good PC alone will get one a CC title. 
~ I have realized a chessic bi-polar characteristic:  both my Blitz rating and CC ratings will be significantly higher than my otb rating.  


  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #19 - 05/08/08 at 20:42:26
Post Tools
drkodos wrote on 05/08/08 at 18:58:28:
I have/am already experiencing something that may only anecdotally confirm what TopNotch was stating, but I am convinced that the Black side of the Ruy is not so bad in Postal (especially if people are using an engine against it to determine their middle game strategery).

As White, I've been playing 1.d4 but can already see some signs that I may need to get back to e4ing people.


After playing the Caro-Kann in correspondence games for a couple of years, I have come around to the Ruy Lopez, and I think deep understanding of the opening (I am slowly working through a variety of options in the Closed) can only benefit you in correspondence chess.  Not just the obvious in chess learning, but also in competitive format against silicon.  I'm regularly amused to see opponents race out to a sizable advantage (according to whatever they're using) only to watch it shrink as the game edges into the middlegame.  The number of draws and wins I've scored when the opponent has commented "I thought I had you when..." is well worth it.

Playing White is still difficult for me too, though, but I'm not quite ready to play 1.e4 until I have more of a plan against the Sicilian and some of the alternatives.  Either that, or I'll need to spend more time with Khalifman and the Reti to drum up a more aggressive repertoire for those Catalan dodgers...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #18 - 05/08/08 at 20:36:31
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 05/08/08 at 17:07:27:
Sorry HGMan,

My bad, I was following some of your posts in a Catalan thread and assumed wrongly that your comment was meant for that.

Again, my apologies.

Toppy Smiley


'salright: I'm on a bit of a one-track mind at the moment.  Too much work means too little chess, and the Catalan is the only thing in focus...   Smiley
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
drkodos
God Member
*****
Offline


I see....stars.

Posts: 778
Location: Jupiter, and beyond
Joined: 03/29/07
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #17 - 05/08/08 at 18:58:28
Post Tools
Matemax wrote on 05/08/08 at 06:33:12:
Quote:
Interesting. Why do you think engines have trouble with this? Is it White's slow but steady build-up?

The engine has no long term sight: you need your chess knowledge and chess feeling to win postal as well - engines dont look either at long term strategy and nor on long term tactics.



I've been enjoying playing against other people's engines!  

If I get a suspicion (is that too strong a word...hehe), I usually have it confirmed (to myself) by early middle game stages, especially when there are still lots of pieces on the board.  

I think most engines still have trouble deciding when to make exchanges (unless there are obvious tactical benfefits).  I also think that some concepts such as: A bishop can only attack one color complex: cannot be fully understood (or taught?!) to a chess engine (yet).  So the application of a specific concept/motif such as "exhange sacrifce and long term positional consequences" can be applied by a human far beyond their own "event horizon."  The engine has nothing but raw statiscal analysis that comes to an abrupt end at which it makes a definitive judgement.  The human can still see that danger may be lurking around a corner, up a flight of stairs, and down the hallway in a room they may have to enter: the machine can not bend its vision past the first corner.  The human experience of experience still has found no match in the known universe.

I have/am already experiencing something that may only anecdotally confirm what TopNotch was stating, but I am convinced that the Black side of the Ruy is not so bad in Postal (especially if people are using an engine against it to determine their middle game strategery).

As White, I've been playing 1.d4 but can already see some signs that I may need to get back to e4ing people.

  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2211
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #16 - 05/08/08 at 17:07:27
Post Tools
Sorry HGMan,

My bad, I was following some of your posts in a Catalan thread and assumed wrongly that your comment was meant for that.

Again, my apologies.

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HgMan
God Member
*****
Offline


Demand me nothing: What
you know, you know

Posts: 2330
Location: Up on Cripple Creek
Joined: 11/09/04
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #15 - 05/08/08 at 16:56:13
Post Tools
TimS wrote on 05/07/08 at 09:42:22:
TopNotch wrote on 05/06/08 at 22:01:13:
You can always use the online chess databases: ChessLab, Chessbase Online and NIC databases to fill in the gaps.

Chances are the weaker players will be relying heavily on engine moves in the middlegame, so try to exploit that fact. I would avoid the Ruy Lopez proper for white in favor of the Spanish Four Knights game: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.0-0 0-0 6.Bxc6!?   works fairly well against engines and some humans who seem to have trouble in the resulting positions for some reason. 

White's plan is fairly simple, to advance the fpawn, open a file, install a Knight on f5 and enjoy the initiative. Attempts to block this plan of White often induces the opponent to create weaknesses, making our task easier.

A good model game to study here is: Nimzowitsch, A vs Leonhardt, P 1911. Also worth looking at are  Larsen, B vs Comp Deep Blue, 1993 and Matseyko, E vs Ostrovsky, A, 2000.

Good look with your comeback.

Toppy Smiley 
 

Interesting. Why do you think engines have trouble with this? Is it White's slow but steady build-up?



Huh?  I was responding to this question, which asked why engines have trouble with the Spanish Four Knights.  TimS asked if it had to do with White's slow but steady build-up.  I replied that that would be my guess, and inferred that might be why engines seem also to have some difficulty in correctly evaluating the Catalan, which is pegged at equal for the first 10-20 moves and then, all of a sudden, the engines like White.  Hence:

"That would be my guess.  The same kind of thing seems to apply to the Catalan as well..."
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #14 - 05/08/08 at 06:33:12
Post Tools
Quote:
Interesting. Why do you think engines have trouble with this? Is it White's slow but steady build-up?

The engine has no long term sight: you need your chess knowledge and chess feeling to win postal as well - engines dont look either at long term strategy and nor on long term tactics.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TimS
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 458
Location: London
Joined: 11/02/05
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #13 - 05/07/08 at 09:42:22
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 05/06/08 at 22:01:13:
You can always use the online chess databases: ChessLab, Chessbase Online and NIC databases to fill in the gaps.

Chances are the weaker players will be relying heavily on engine moves in the middlegame, so try to exploit that fact. I would avoid the Ruy Lopez proper for white in favor of the Spanish Four Knights game: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.0-0 0-0 6.Bxc6!?   works fairly well against engines and some humans who seem to have trouble in the resulting positions for some reason. 

White's plan is fairly simple, to advance the fpawn, open a file, install a Knight on f5 and enjoy the initiative. Attempts to block this plan of White often induces the opponent to create weaknesses, making our task easier.

A good model game to study here is: Nimzowitsch, A vs Leonhardt, P 1911. Also worth looking at are  Larsen, B vs Comp Deep Blue, 1993 and Matseyko, E vs Ostrovsky, A, 2000.

Good look with your comeback.

Toppy Smiley 
 

Interesting. Why do you think engines have trouble with this? Is it White's slow but steady build-up?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Getting Ready To Go Postal
Reply #12 - 05/07/08 at 01:22:23
Post Tools
Make sure you are ready to meet 4...Nd4 and 4...Bc5 as well.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo