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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3 (Read 7175 times)
flaviddude
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #14 - 05/17/08 at 10:02:57
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LeeRoth wrote on 05/12/08 at 00:31:17:
LeeRoth wrote on 03/28/08 at 17:44:16:
Ok, after 16.Bxh5 gxh5 17.Qf3 Rg8 18.0-0 Bd7, I will first try 19.Rfb1 with the idea of b4.  What does Black do here?


@DavidFlude -  Have you given up on this line?


I have been incredibly busy. The club Director of Play and the Club Treasurer took holidays at the same time. Only one guess is allowed as to who had to cover for them.
  

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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #13 - 05/13/08 at 23:40:29
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I recall John Cox saying in his "Starting Out: 1.d4" book that the Modern Variation (Bd3 & h3) was a good practical choice below Grandmaster level because according to him, many amateurs will avoid the 9...b5 variation because of its drawish tendencies after 10.Bb5.
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #12 - 05/12/08 at 00:31:17
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LeeRoth wrote on 03/28/08 at 17:44:16:
Ok, after 16.Bxh5 gxh5 17.Qf3 Rg8 18.0-0 Bd7, I will first try 19.Rfb1 with the idea of b4.  What does Black do here?


@DavidFlude -  Have you given up on this line?
  
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battleangel
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #11 - 04/16/08 at 19:11:44
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I think instead of playing ... a6 that is countered 99 % by a4, black can play b6 and try to get his whitesquared bishop on a6, I think black get's getter positions if his light squared bishop is not anymore in the way
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #10 - 03/28/08 at 17:44:16
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Ok, after 16.Bxh5 gxh5 17.Qf3 Rg8 18.0-0 Bd7, I will first try 19.Rfb1 with the idea of b4.  What does Black do here?
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #9 - 03/27/08 at 01:23:57
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Fair enough, but instead of h4, how about something more like 16.Bxh5 gxh5 17.Qf3 Rg8 18.0-0 Bd7 (18..Rg6!?) and now with the kside stabilized for the moment, maybe white can try to organize b4 as a way to generate pressure.   All this just a first impression, I will look at it some more if I get the time. (and also want to check if the immediate 19.e5 goes anywhere).
  
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #8 - 03/27/08 at 01:08:42
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LeeRoth wrote on 03/26/08 at 21:46:13:
Interesting idea, thanks for that and for the games.  Delaying 0-0 seems a bit risky.  What happens in your line after 11.Bg5, do you play 11..Bf6 12.Bh6 Ne5 13.Be2 and leave the king in the middle?

LeeRoth


this is a good point to start the analysis

13...Nxf3 14.Bxf3 Bg5 15.Bxg5 Qxg5 16.h4 Qe5 17.Bxh5 gxh leading to a position with reduced material. This needs to be looked at very carefully. At first look it seems easier to play than the ending after the b5 lines. In correspondence I would be inclined to play the b5 lines and play for half a point especially against higher rated players. I need all the endgame experience that I can get.

Over the board I would be loathe to play the b5 lines especially in weekend tournaments. Playing a long defensive game against a person with good technique tends to lead you tired for the rest of the tournament  especially at my age of sixty seven.
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #7 - 03/26/08 at 21:46:13
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Interesting idea, thanks for that and for the games.  Delaying 0-0 seems a bit risky.  What happens in your line after 11.Bg5, do you play 11..Bf6 12.Bh6 Ne5 13.Be2 and leave the king in the middle?

LeeRoth
  
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #6 - 03/26/08 at 14:44:23
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IMRichardPalliser wrote on 03/25/08 at 09:52:20:
One problem with 9/10...Nh5 is the simple line given in Cox's 'Starting Out: 1 d4': Ikonnikov's timely Be2 just looks like an easy edge to me. As discussed elsewhere, the MML is a bit of a pain for a black player looking to win, unless W's played an early Nf3 and you can opt for the 7...a6 variation. One idea might be 9...a6 10 a4 Nbd7 followed by the ...Qe7-f8 plan, += though it probably is, as covered on the website.


First let me say that I find Richard Palliser's books very useful. There is one other possibility for black against the Modern main line which I am currently examining.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd 5.cxd d6 6.e4 g6 7.h3 Bg7 8.Bd3    a6 9.a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 Nh5  11.0-0 Ne5 11.Be2 Nxf3 12. Bxf3 Qh4 13.Bxh4 gxh the black rook is coming to g8 with attacking chances.

There are other eleventh moves for white. I attach relevant games from my database. This line may not be a long term answer for black but it is cetainly going to make white think instead of just following  some recent book.            
  

ben4.pgn ( 8 KB | 95 Downloads )

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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #5 - 03/25/08 at 09:52:20
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One problem with 9/10...Nh5 is the simple line given in Cox's 'Starting Out: 1 d4': Ikonnikov's timely Be2 just looks like an easy edge to me. As discussed elsewhere, the MML is a bit of a pain for a black player looking to win, unless W's played an early Nf3 and you can opt for the 7...a6 variation. One idea might be 9...a6 10 a4 Nbd7 followed by the ...Qe7-f8 plan, += though it probably is, as covered on the website.
  
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #4 - 03/25/08 at 07:43:14
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DoubledPawns wrote on 03/24/08 at 16:12:55:
You should also see "Beating the Fianchetto Defences" by Grivas, which has coverage of this line (admittedly I don't have the book).

I'd agree that the endgame after 10.Bb5 is not really what Black is after, and I suppose it is not too surprising that the Benoni is not too popular at GM level nowadays, given that this variation is one where White is more or less assured of a theoretical edge if he is well prepared.

To be honest I believe that black can hold the endgame. I have played it as white in correspondence chess and black's job is not too difficult.

However the statement about all the chances lying with white is certainly true. Looking at the chessbase online database there is a score of +15 -0 =35 (65%) for white after the moves 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nf3 g6 7.e4 Bg7 8.h3 0-0 9.Bd3 b5 10.Bxb5 Nxe4 11.Nxe4 Qa5+ 12.Nfd2 Qxb5 13.Nxd6 Qa6 14.N2c4 Nd7 15.0-0 Nb6 16.Nxb6 Qxb6 17.Nxc8 Raxc8 18.Rb1 Rfd8 19.Bf4 Qb7 20.d6, which to me very accurately reflects the situation: objectively it may be a draw, but I'd be happy to try for a win as white over the board against a weaker player and would love to have little winning chances with no risk against someone stronger.

In practice over the board hardly anyone ever plays the b5 main-line though, everyone seems to prefer the lines with Nbd7+a6+Re8 (in some order), which while possibly objectively a little bit better for white are not as forcing. The Nh5 lines seem to be the second most popular thing, probably due to Watson's advocacy. b5 lines with early deviations from the main line are the third most popular thing.
  
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battleangel
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #3 - 03/24/08 at 18:24:15
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there is also

9. ... Re8
10. 0-0 c4
  
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DoubledPawns
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1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #2 - 03/24/08 at 16:12:55
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You should also see "Beating the Fianchetto Defences" by Grivas, which has coverage of this line (admittedly I don't have the book).

I'd agree that the endgame after 10.Bb5 is not really what Black is after, and I suppose it is not too surprising that the Benoni is not too popular at GM level nowadays, given that this variation is one where White is more or less assured of a theoretical edge if he is well prepared.
  

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LeeRoth
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Re: Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
Reply #1 - 03/24/08 at 13:39:51
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I think they are both right. Wink

Against best play from White, I don't think 9..Nh5 equalizes, but at club level it leads to a playable game where Black gets some chances to mix things up.  Theoretically speaking, 9...b5 gives Black better chances to equalize, but the main lines with 10.Bxb5 lead to an ending where with best play either White is going to win or it's going to be a draw.  Some Benoni players are OK with this, while others find it a frustration.
  
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Benoni Main Line Bd3 & h3
03/23/08 at 08:36:49
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In the modern main line (1.d4-Nf6 2.c4-c5 3.d5-e6 4.Nc3-ed5 5.cd5-d6 6.Nf3-g6 7.e4-Bg7 8.h3-00 9.Bd3), Richard Palliser recommends (The Modern Benoni Revealed) 9...-b5 and considers 9....-Nh5 as an interesting move but no more.
Some days ago, I bought Watson's book about the Benoni and there the author recommends Nh5 and considers b5 not to give enough for black (maybe a draw when black will play very precisely).
What is your meaning about this?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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