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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is it worth it? (Read 4350 times)
Matemax
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #13 - 05/04/08 at 12:53:22
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Quote:
IMPORTANT


1) Its not for everyone, especially the feint of heart.

2) Its not about equalising its about counter attacking.

3) Arguably the two greatest players in chess history, Fischer and Kasparov relied on this defence for most of their chess career, so if you choose this you are in good company.

4) Clearly the rumor that Kramnik refuted the KID was dispelled by Radjabov, whom to date Kramnik has failed to prove anything against.

5) The Bayonet Attack is over-rated

6) The c5 pawn sac lines are the safest against the Samisch, and he has enough compensation should White accept the pawn.

7) When white side steps the mainlines he is often worse not equal.

8) The KID is the supreme psychological weapon, it lets your opponent know from the get go you are here to fight, no retreat, no surrender.

9) Get used to a high body count in the KID, its not what pieces that have left the battlefield that is often important but what stays on.

10) Last but not least, always remember the cardinal rule, in 99.9% of the cases we are playing for mate even when it looks like we are not. White players enjoying their positional plus on the Queenside, often tend to overlook this trivial detail when estimating their chances.

Players to keep an eye on: Radjabov (of course); Nataf (A particular favorite of mine); Kotronias; Inarkiev; Hebden (Already mentioned); Amonatov; Bologan; Volokitin. To name but a few.

Good luck what ever you choose.

Toppy Smiley      

Great stuff, Toppy! We know what we enjoy with you  Smiley

As a small addition I would say that it is good to have a back-up system apart from the Kings Indian. You dont feel ready every time you play to run down a road and dont know what will happen around the corner - but thats practically all my KI-games went (at least if the centre is closed): Playing 20 moves or more and then you have got what you have got, no chance for return (but also not for your opponent!) - running down the moves and only at the end you will know what really will happen.

As a back-up I started playing Slav/Semi-Slav and rarely Nimzo/Queensindian where you may be sligthly worse in some positions but you know it - in the KI you sometimes dont know how to assess the position at all  Wink

Quote:
Is it possible to use the books that I have now:

Play the King's Indian
SO: The KID
Mastering the KID
KID Battle Plans
Understanding the KID


Wow! - If you read and understand all those books your clearly above 2.500 concering your opening play - dont worry!
  
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BlkSabb
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #12 - 05/04/08 at 12:04:25
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 04/14/08 at 07:37:21:
One other point to add to Toppy's useful hints is that the KID can often lead to highly tactical play and so it would be worthwhile working on your combinations- apologies if that sounds rather vague but i am not aware of a book solely on KID combinations (but who knows maybe there is one out there !?)


There is 'Tactics in the King's Indian' by Nesis and Shulman and 'Tactics in the Chess Opening 5: Indian Defences: Catalan & Benoni'.
  
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jarih
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #11 - 04/14/08 at 09:05:05
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 04/14/08 at 07:37:21:
One other point to add to Toppy's useful hints is that the KID can often lead to highly tactical play and so it would be worthwhile working on your combinations- apologies if that sounds rather vague but i am not aware of a book solely on KID combinations (but who knows maybe there is one out there !?)


Nikolay Minev: King's Indian Defense - Tactics, Ideas, Exercises

KING'S INDIAN DEFENSE - Tactics, Ideas, Exercises by IM Nikolay
Minev, 1993 International Chess Enterprises, Figurine Algebraic
Notation, 120pp., $15.95

It has long been recognized that for most players below master
strength (and perhaps for many above this level), sharpening
tactical ability is the best way to improve one's skill in the
middlegame. This of course does not mean that openings or
endings should be ignored; but in that difficult area of
improving one's middlegame play, the highest dividends will be
received by concentrating on tactics.

While the learning and study of tactics can certainly be
approached on a generic level, there are many types of tactical
ploys which are more particular to certain openings. Thus, for
example, the sacrifice of the exchange on c3 by Black in many
lines of the Sicilian Defense is a well known tactical shot. In
this new book by IM Nikolay Minev, he presents two hundred
positions which have occurred in games featuring the King's
Indian Defense. These are not composed positions; each is from
an actual game.

Each position is presented by the author with a brief note
instructing the reader to solve for White or Black. The
solutions to the two hundred positions are given overleaf (four
positions per page) *with the complete game score*. What an
excellent idea! In addition, the positions with their full game
scores are arranged according to their ECO Opening
classifications. Thus, if you are interested in checking out the
tactics in the KID Saemisch, go to the section featuring games
in the E80-82 codes and you will find 25 tactical positions
which have arisen from the Saemisch, with the solutions and the
full game scores.

This is a unique way to present and teach tactics. We can only
hope that additional books featuring the particular tactics of
other openings will follow.

***************************************************************
The books which are reviewed by Mr. Russell are furnished
courtesy of the United States Chess Federation. The views
expressed are those of Mr. Russell and do not necessarily
reflect the views of the United States Chess Federation. You may
order this book and/or obtain the latest catalog of chess books
and equipment from the U.S.C.F., 186 Rt. 9W, New Windsor, NY
12553 or call toll-free 1-800-388-5464.

Copyright 1993 Hanon W. Russell
All Rights Reserved
  
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Willempie
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #10 - 04/14/08 at 08:42:17
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TopNotch wrote on 04/14/08 at 05:35:08:
7) When white side steps the mainlines he is often worse not equal.

I like you 10 commandments for the KIDs Wink

Still I had a little issue with this ons since it is especially in lines other than the classical and Samisch where black players have difficulty. I myself had some rather emberassing games in the h3-lines when I thought I could quickly pick up this defense.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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jmi
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #9 - 04/14/08 at 08:34:58
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ANDREW BRETT is right. The KID can lead to highly tactical games.

For example, Bareev got taken to the cleaners in this recent game at the Russian Team Championships.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1489327

Imagine the look on White's face when 23.... Ndf4 was played. Shocked
  

Another wonderful chess link you should visit http://www.chesspublishing.com Smiley
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #8 - 04/14/08 at 07:37:21
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One other point to add to Toppy's useful hints is that the KID can often lead to highly tactical play and so it would be worthwhile working on your combinations- apologies if that sounds rather vague but i am not aware of a book solely on KID combinations (but who knows maybe there is one out there !?)
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #7 - 04/14/08 at 05:35:08
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Bibs wrote on 03/26/08 at 12:42:47:
Frankly - I dont know. Sorry. Finger not properly on KID pulse.
Anyone?

Check your chessbase plus TWIC updates.
NIC yearbooks.
Maybe email Mikhalevski with specific queries.

Oh - maybe get yourself a KID 'hero'. Someone like Mark Hebden rather than Peter Petrelli.


All good suggestions except for the emailing Mikhalevski part, as a subscriber to the KID section I can attest to the fact that he does not seem to loose much sleep investigating Black's chances or true potential. That said, White players trusting his analysis to gain an advantage are in for a rude awakening if they blindly follow his lead, particularly in the Bayonet attack.

All in all it's hard to say who is ultimately is getting short changed here.

Some useful advice for TonyRo and others thinking of taking up the KID.

IMPORTANT


1) Its not for everyone, especially the feint of heart.

2) Its not about equalising its about counter attacking.

3) Arguably the two greatest players in chess history, Fischer and Kasparov relied on this defence for most of their chess career, so if you choose this you are in good company.

4) Clearly the rumor that Kramnik refuted the KID was dispelled by Radjabov, whom to date Kramnik has failed to prove anything against.

5) The Bayonet Attack is over-rated

6) The c5 pawn sac lines are the safest against the Samisch, and he has enough compensation should White accept the pawn.

7) When white side steps the mainlines he is often worse not equal.

8) The KID is the supreme psychological weapon, it lets your opponent know from the get go you are here to fight, no retreat, no surrender.

9) Get used to a high body count in the KID, its not what pieces that have left the battlefield that is often important but what stays on.

10) Last but not least, always remember the cardinal rule, in 99.9% of the cases we are playing for mate even when it looks like we are not. White players enjoying their positional plus on the Queenside, often tend to overlook this trivial detail when estimating their chances.

Players to keep an eye on: Radjabov (of course); Nataf (A particular favorite of mine); Kotronias; Inarkiev; Hebden (Already mentioned); Amonatov; Bologan; Volokitin. To name but a few.

Good luck what ever you choose.

Toppy Smiley      

  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #6 - 04/14/08 at 03:08:35
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If you do decide to play the King's Indian over-the-board, make sure you have some idea of how to play a number of different setups. For example, play both ...Nc6 and ...Na6 in the 7.0-0 Classical, or both ...c5 and ...Nc6, ...a6 in the Samisch.

This is because if you don't have any reserve options, and one of your opponents finds a hole in your repertoire, you can expect a number of your future opponents to play the same line as well.

Also, the KID is not a very good opening in practical terms for players without a large amount of time to study openings, since in the time it takes Black to learn decent systems against every single one of White's main options, White could thoroughly and meticulously cover their own solution to the King's Indian, preparing an array of strong novelties in the process.

If you have less than 100 games in Mega Database or your country's chess database, then I wouldn't worry too much about people preparing heavily for you. But once your rating is over 2200, you have to be prepared for absolutely everything White can throw at you.
  

Nothing has meaning or value other than the meaning and value that you give it.
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Bibs
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #5 - 03/26/08 at 12:42:47
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Frankly - I dont know. Sorry. Finger not properly on KID pulse.
Anyone?

Check your chessbase plus TWIC updates.
NIC yearbooks.
Maybe email Mikhalevski with specific queries.

Oh - maybe get yourself a KID 'hero'. Someone like Mark Hebden rather than Peter Petrelli.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #4 - 03/26/08 at 12:04:56
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I have Golubev's and Pellin and Bonzetto. Are all the lines in Gallaghers "Play the King's Indian" still holding up? Or should I look elsewhere for some lines?
  
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #3 - 03/26/08 at 11:22:22
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TonyRo
Yes, those books will suffice.

But also recommend:
Gufeld: Art of the King's Indian - genuinely inspiring
Golubev - Understanding the King's Indian. - loads of annotated games across the range of systems.

Maybe also the old Bellin/Ponzetto book.

But does depend on your level to an extent.


Battleangel - fianchetto is not a good choice for lower rated, perhaps less sophisticated players. White has to keep a grip on things, to keep black's play in check- very tough to do.
However if you insist, the late Alex Wojtkievic's games are good to provide a repertoire base.

Thibdb  Recent Grivas article in, I think, a NIC or Chessbase mag (I forget) may also be worth a look.
For the Nc6, a6, stuff - Gufeld games show the themes.
  
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #2 - 03/26/08 at 10:29:18
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tbh. the KID is the most nasty defence to 1.d4,
if you want to go for an advantage ...
I've looked into so many lines ...
gligoric, h3 variation, bayonet, nothing is really good,
and I think I will play the fianchetto.
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Is it worth it?
Reply #1 - 03/26/08 at 07:31:44
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There is nothing to do against the Sämisch!! Cheesy
Now seriously, against the Sämisch, my experience (as white), tells me the Pano could be the best choice. The c5 gambit is also interesting but I do not think black gets enough for his pawn when white knows how to play.
You can also meet the 4 pawns attack transposing to the Benoni (with c5 at the right moment).
I know some players who prefer to start with the modern and only after white shows what his intentions are decide to go to the KID or another  setup which could fit them better.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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TonyRo
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Is it worth it?
03/26/08 at 00:25:45
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I have tried to take up the KID a couple of times, and have amassed 4 or 5 books on it now, and I was just thinking to myself, is playing this opening even worth it as Black. It's incredibly difficult, and the Classical is ridiculously tough to play against if White plays well. I've been playing the Grunfeld lately, but still have that soft spot for the KID. I guess, my question is, is it worth it to really delve into this opening and learn the ins and outs for OTB play. Is it possible to use the books that I have now:

Play the King's Indian
SO: The KID
Mastering the KID
KID Battle Plans
Understanding the KID

to learn good lines? I always feel like with KID books not all of the lines are still good, and I have to pick and choose. I like Gallaghers book the best, could I just use this book and not run into some huge problems? What do you guys think the best ways to play against the Classical, h3 lines, Fianchetto, Four Pawns, Samisch, are? Sorry for the dreary and long post, I actually do love the opening!
  
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