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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 (Read 18777 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #10 - 08/05/11 at 06:00:13
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Also, Suetin showed how white gains an advantage after Nxd7 in ECO back in 1978.

6...Nd7 7.Nf5 hits the d6 pawn immediately. Now, 7...Nc5 (Zvaigantsev tried 7...a6 once, but lost)   8.Nc3 and black is:

  • Behind in development
  • has a weak d6 pawn (that in this position really is a target) and 
  • his only developed piece will have to move very soon or get kicked.
 

See ECO B54 and B55 for some key positions and what black hopes to transpose to (tho many of those positions also look rather bleak for Black.)
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #9 - 08/04/11 at 07:47:33
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Uhohspaghettio wrote on 08/04/11 at 04:27:32:
This may be a dumb question, but why is it nearly always better to recapture with the queen in that type of position? Wouldn't Nxd7 develop another piece to a good square?


The knight would be better placed on c6 imo.
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #8 - 08/04/11 at 04:27:32
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This may be a dumb question, but why is it nearly always better to recapture with the queen in that type of position? Wouldn't Nxd7 develop another piece to a good square?
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #7 - 08/04/11 at 00:37:14
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dfan wrote on 08/03/11 at 20:43:08:
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/03/11 at 18:35:12:
Looking at this line, I don't really see white's advantage after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 e5 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Bd7 Qd7 7.Nf5. 

Grischuk tried 7.Ne2 twice against Grachev and scored .5/2.

This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure de la Villa recommends 7.Ne2 in Dismantling the Sicilian. I don't remember if he has much analysis of it, though.

I checked and de la Villa gives 7.Ne2 an exclamation point, although he doesn't really explain why. One double-column page of analysis follows, including at least one unplayed novelty, which I won't reveal out of respect. He does mention one of the Grischuk-Grachev games, saying that after 7.Ne2 Nf6 8.Nbc3 Be7 9.Bg5 0-0 10.0-0 Qe6 11.Bxf6 Bxf6 12.Nd5 Bd8 13.Qd3 "White has applied the thematic plan and has a lasting edge based on the grip on the d5-square and the fact that Black's dark-squared bishop is relatively inactive."
  
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dfan
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #6 - 08/03/11 at 20:43:08
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/03/11 at 18:35:12:
Looking at this line, I don't really see white's advantage after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 e5 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Bd7 Qd7 7.Nf5. 

Grischuk tried 7.Ne2 twice against Grachev and scored .5/2.

This is from memory, but I'm pretty sure de la Villa recommends 7.Ne2 in Dismantling the Sicilian. I don't remember if he has much analysis of it, though.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #5 - 08/03/11 at 18:35:12
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Looking at this line, I don't really see white's advantage after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 e5 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Bd7 Qd7 7.Nf5. 

Grischuk tried 7.Ne2 twice against Grachev and scored .5/2. 

This could be a bit more venomous than it seems. It certainly seems like an excellent surprise weapon.   

Perhaps White's best is simply 5.Nb3 Nf6, expecting to transpose to more common lines?
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #4 - 03/27/08 at 08:32:51
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Pessoa
Yes, that is the CD.
A fair practical punt - very unlikely white will play all the way down the critical line.
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #3 - 03/26/08 at 16:29:11
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Bibs and OstapBender,

Thx for the hints. I'll have a look.

Bibs wrote on 03/26/08 at 11:14:53:
There is a chessbase CD on this and other 'alternate' (qb6 kinda stuff) sicilians.
Worth a look - plenty of interesting analysis therein and the best source.

Guess you mean Amador Rodriguez, Modern ways of playing the Sicilian, 1999 ...

Presumably Khalifman will also deal with this line in his Anand 1.e4 series. Vol. 10? Vol. 11? 

Anyway, one or two games in a forthcoming update here would be nice ...  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #2 - 03/26/08 at 15:52:45
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Pessoa wrote on 03/26/08 at 07:40:21:
I would like to see some coverage of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 (or of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5, which the first line often transposes to). "Theory" recommends 5.Bb5+ (or 6.Bb5+, respectively) as an "antidote", but it appears things are not so clear (cf. Nigel Davies' comment in Taming the Sicilian).

Is there a thread on these lines? (I haven't found any.) Are there games with these lines in the archives? (I haven't found any.)

There's a thread entitled A virtually unknowned Sicilian line here (though it's not a very long one).

These lines are also mentioned in Experts vs. the Sicilian and Beating the Sicilian 3.

There is no outright refutation, but White does fine answering ...e5 with Bb5+ coming out of the opening with a small plus.
  
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Re: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
Reply #1 - 03/26/08 at 11:14:53
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There is a chessbase CD on this and other 'alternate' (qb6 kinda stuff) sicilians.
Worth a look - plenty of interesting analysis therein and the best source.





  
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1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5
03/26/08 at 07:40:21
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I would like to see some coverage of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 (or of the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5, which the first line often transposes to). "Theory" recommends 5.Bb5+ (or 6.Bb5+, respectively) as an "antidote", but it appears things are not so clear (cf. Nigel Davies' comment in Taming the Sicilian).

Is there a thread on these lines? (I haven't found any.) Are there games with these lines in the archives? (I haven't found any.)

Here are two examples:

[Event "Biel Credis op"]
[Site "Biel"]
[Date "1995.??.??"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Masserey,Yvan"]
[Black "Alexandria,Nana"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B56"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Bb5+ Bd7 6.Bxd7+ Qxd7 7.Nf5 Nf6 8.Nc3 Nxe4 
9.Nxg7+ Bxg7 10.Nxe4 d5 11.Ng3 Nc6 12.0-0 0-0-0 13.c4 dxc4 14.Qa4 f5 15.Bg5 Rde8 16.Rfd1 Qe6 
17.Rac1 Rhf8 18.Rxc4 Kb8 19.Rdc1 Rc8 20.Re1 Qg6 21.Bd2 Nd4 22.Rxc8+ Rxc8 23.Bc3 f4 24.Bxd4 exd4 
25.Ne2 f3 26.Ng3 h5 27.h4 a6 28.Qd1 Rf8 29.gxf3 Rd8 30.Re4 d3 31.Qd2 Bxb2 32.Qxb2 d2 
0-1

[Event "Lippstadt 10th"]
[Site "Lippstadt"]
[Date "2000.07.06"]
[Round "8"]
[White "McShane,Luke J"]
[Black "Wehmeier,Stefan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B54"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 5.Bb5+ Nd7 6.Nf5 a6 7.Bxd7+ Qxd7 8.Nc3 Qc6 
9.Ne3 Be6 10.Qd3 Ne7 11.0-0 g6 12.Ned5 Bxd5 13.Nxd5 Nxd5 14.exd5 Qc7 15.f4 f5 16.fxe5 dxe5 
17.Kh1 Bd6 18.Bh6 Rc8 19.Qh3 Qe7 20.Rac1 Rc4 21.g3 Qc7 22.Qg2 Kd7 23.c3 Rc8 24.Bd2 Ra4 
25.Ra1 h5 26.b3 Rg4 27.h3 Re4 28.a4 Qc5 29.c4 Qd4 30.a5 Qb2 31.Rab1 Qc2 32.Rfc1 Qd3 
33.Rb2 Ba3 34.Rc3 Qd4 35.Ra2 Bc5 36.Rc1 Qd3 37.Rc3 Qb1+ 38.Bc1 Re1+ 39.Kh2 Bg1+ 0-1

Any thoughts?
  
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