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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo? (Read 10996 times)
HgMan
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #17 - 05/17/08 at 17:19:35
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Not a great deal:  Only 5...Nxc3 6.a3 Be7 7.bxc3 0-0 and Black should be okay after an eventual ...d6 and ...e5.  They give Bogoljubow-Steiner, Prague 1931 as an example...
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #16 - 05/16/08 at 13:11:09
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Chevalier wrote on 05/16/08 at 08:49:59:
4.e3 Ne4 is covered in Dangerous Weapons: The Nimzo-Indian. I have looked at this and concluded that White is better after 5.Qc2 f5 6.Bd3 0-0 7.Nge2 b6 8.0-0 Bc3 9.Nc3 Nc3 10.Qc3 Bb7 11.b4.


You may be right.  What did they say about my blindfold move, 5.Qg4?
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #15 - 05/16/08 at 08:49:59
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4.e3 Ne4 is covered in Dangerous Weapons: The Nimzo-Indian. I have looked at this and concluded that White is better after 5.Qc2 f5 6.Bd3 0-0 7.Nge2 b6 8.0-0 Bc3 9.Nc3 Nc3 10.Qc3 Bb7 11.b4.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #14 - 05/15/08 at 15:29:51
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Yes, this looks pretty good, the best I could find for black is 6...0.0 7pxB f5 8Qh4 Ne4. It is strange what pecular things I worry about at times. Thanks for help.

John S
  
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Markovich
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #13 - 05/15/08 at 12:08:42
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MarinFan wrote on 05/15/08 at 09:51:26:
Hello,

For a recent club game, I was thinking about playing 4e3 because I knew opponent had habit of playing BXN early and aiming for a dutch setup, i.e.
4 ... Bxc3 5pxB Ne4 5. Bd3 f5 6Qh5ch when would be a tempo up, on a Botvinnik - Tal game I think. What happens if black switches move order a bit with 4...Ne4 5.Qc2 f5 had feeling this should be rubbish, but dont have much experience of this sort of positon, because normally play 1.e4.

Bye John S


I assume we agree that Black is a tempo down, not up, on that Botvinnik - Tal match game after 4...Bxc3 and so forth.

In case of 4...Ne4, I don't know the theory, but isn't 5.Qg4 a strong move, intending 5...Nxc3 6.a3 Ba5 7.Bd2 or perhaps 7.b4?
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #12 - 05/15/08 at 09:51:26
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Hello,

For a recent club game, I was thinking about playing 4e3 because I knew opponent had habit of playing BXN early and aiming for a dutch setup, i.e.
4 ... Bxc3 5pxB Ne4 5. Bd3 f5 6Qh5ch when would be a tempo up, on a Botvinnik - Tal game I think. What happens if black switches move order a bit with 4...Ne4 5.Qc2 f5 had feeling this should be rubbish, but dont have much experience of this sort of positon, because normally play 1.e4.

Bye John S
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #11 - 05/15/08 at 08:30:58
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Generous assesment from Christiansen - I´ll stick to my guns and say its close to lost, though 12.Ng3 is not the best start - the plan is a gradual pawn push on the king-side, and because of the space features Black has the classic problem of getting squashed or mated. I played this line before and it requires a health warning.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #10 - 05/14/08 at 23:23:12
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Consider Christiansen-Anastasian, Erevan olympiad 1996:  4. e3 Bxc3+ 5. bc c5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. Ne2 d6 8. 0-0 e5 9. e4 0-0 10. f3 b6 11. d5 (+= NCO) Ne7 12. Ng3 (+= Larry C. in Chess Informant).  A related line (with ...0-0 and ...e5 but without ...c5) is 5...0-0 6. Bd3 d6 7. e4 e5 8. Ne2 Re8 9. f3 Nbd7 10. 0-0 Nf8 11. Be3 b6 12. a4 (+= ECO, from Kiril Georgiev-Stefanov, Bulgaria 1985).  Those assessments appear more plausible to me than "Black has a lost position" or the like.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #9 - 05/14/08 at 21:53:31
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its the tempo down that will be killing Kylemeister - in fact if Black trys to blockade with the king on the kingside he has a lost position - it is safe to release the tension for White and we have the classic scenario which has seen Black go down in flames so many times - king in the wrong place. "lost position" may be a slight exageration by me, but only ever so slight! That said a friend of mine who is a candidate master played this way twice for Black against master opposition and got away it - 3rd time round he got squashed though, despite best warnings of his mates not to do it...
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #8 - 05/14/08 at 16:22:59
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Don't know about ...0-0 being "a classic mistake"; it's apparently considered normal, in conjunction with setting up the ...e5 and ...c5 structure.  I would think it might be a classic mistake to follow it up/combine it with the kind of stuff Black plays in the "regular" Saemisch.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #7 - 05/14/08 at 12:21:23
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richard_dumoulin wrote on 04/17/08 at 21:59:15:
Today an IM played this against me in ICC and apart from being surprised I did not have a clear cut plan except for trying to open lines for the bishops meanwhile he only had to follow the straightforward typical plan of attacking my c4 pawn

Thx

-- Richard


This is rather bad.  White only has to know how to play the Saemisch.  There, Chevalier is right that Ne2-Ng3 is normal.  MNb is also right that a2-a3 is a useful move, enabling Ra2-Re2 (or sometimes -Rf2, -Rg2 or -Rh2).  However it's even more useful to have in e2-e3.  Since White is equal against Black's best play in the Saemisch, he is certainly better after 4.e3 Bxc3+?!.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #6 - 05/14/08 at 11:55:30
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..O-O is a classic mistake though - Black should keep the king in the centre, especially if he is trying to play this line like this a tempo down, eventually he can blockade and try to find the nice c7 square. Its better for White but be careful not to release the tension in the centre too early.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #5 - 04/18/08 at 19:59:34
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Nice input chevalier, thanks
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #4 - 04/18/08 at 12:03:20
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Here is a sample line of play after 5.bc3: 5...0-0 (Black castles, not commiting to any particular central configuration) 6.Bd3 d6 7.Ne2! (The knight is better placed here than on f3, since there ...e5-e4 is always in the air) 7...e5 8.0-0 c5 (alternatives: 8...e4 9.Bc2 should be better for White, who will later play Ng3 and f3 with a stronger initiative supported by the centre; 8...Nc6 is also plausible, but the position after 9.Ng3 looks better for White, who will soon play e4 and f4) 9.e4! and White has a much improved version of the Hubner. With the knight on e2, White not only can play f4 much more quickly, but can also utilize the f5-square as an outpost for White's knight after Ng3 and an eventual Nf5.
  
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Re: Why is 4 e3 Bxc3 bad in the Nimzo?
Reply #3 - 04/18/08 at 05:50:26
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MNb wrote on 04/18/08 at 02:42:52:
Compare with the variations 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 0-0 6.e3 and 4.e3 0-0 5.Bd3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3.
It is nice to have saved the tempo a2-a3, don't you think? So imo the plan should be 4.e3 Bxc3+?! 5.bxc3 6.Bd3 7.Ne2 8.0-0 9.f3 10.e4.

In fact one would most likely be able to do without 9.f3, surely? Of course one has to imagine 4 moves black has played in the meantime, but I guess they had better not be the standard Sämisch moves 0-0, c5, Nc6 and b6, otherwise black would presumably find himself a move down compared to a fairly sharp variation (where he usually very much doing okay).

  
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