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Normal Topic 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again (Read 4341 times)
trandism
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #7 - 04/23/08 at 12:29:45
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Thanks MNb, I will check that g3 line
Hope my other lines are decent..

Cheers
  
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MNb
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #6 - 04/23/08 at 00:45:13
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You missed 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3/4.Nge2 exd4 5.Nxd4 Be7 6.g3. This line of the Philidor-Antosjin is quite heavily debated in the Open Games section.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158040192/0#0
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1191507499
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1178293497/0#0
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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trandism
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #5 - 04/22/08 at 12:05:26
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Yes Willempie, of course I'm skipping Qxd8 Kxd8.. Sorry..
Fortunately, it was obvious Smiley

I modified my previous post accordingly

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Willempie
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #4 - 04/22/08 at 10:06:19
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Arent you skipping a move?
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Bc4 Be6, 6. Bxe6 fxe6, 7. Bg5 Bd6, 8. 0-0-0 Ke7 should be 5Qxd8 Kxd8 and then the same?
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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trandism
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #3 - 04/22/08 at 09:50:27
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That is one of my favourite openings as black, especially if white goes dxe5 dxe5, bc4 be6, bxe6 fxe6

At club level, people underestimate you after these moves, they think that you have absolutely no idea of what you're doing because the pawn island e5,e6 looks terrible aesthetically.. But black - as you probably already know - have some compensation for this..

Roman Dzindzichasvhilli (spelling) has out a video on this line from the black side of view..

Personally I approach this line as a type of positional gambit.. black "sacrifices" his pawn structure and gets a more comfortable game and maybe the initiative on the queen's side as a compensation..

The "accepted" has two main branches in my experience, depending on where white castles..
Most ambitious players castle queenside because it comes "naturally" in the variation..
e.g 4. dxe5 dxe5, 5. Qxd8 Kxd8, 6.bc4 be6, 7. bxe6 fxe6, 8. bg5 bd6, 9. 0-0-0 Ke7
In this case black plays Nbd7, a6, Rhb8, b5 (not necessarily with that order), h6 in some cases where that bishop on g5 becomes annoying.. Black has to be careful not to transfer in a lost ending due to his pawn structure weaknesses..

White castling kingside and playing Nbd2 and c4 is in my opinion the correct approach to play for an advantage and black has to be careful.. I usually play b5 straight after Nd2 and meet c4 with a subsequent b4 and nc5, trying to create an outpost for my knights on c5 and try to create tactic complication, because positionally black is lost..

The "declines" lines are also something you should study..
There are many moves white can play:
4. d5 is the most harmless in my opinion.. black plays c6 and plans Be7, 0-0, Nf8 and f5

4. Be3 is a not so ambitious attempt.. Black takes on d4, then plays Be7.. e.g
4. Be3 exd4, 5. Qxd4 Be7, 6. 0-0-0 Nc6, 7. Qd2 0-0, 8. f3 a5

4. Nf3 exd4, 5. Nxd4 Be7 is "main line".. Now:

i) 6. Bc4 0-0, 7. 0-0 Nxe4, 8. Nxe4 d5, 9. Bd3 dxe4, 10. Bxe4 Nd7 is OK for black

i) 6. Be2 0-0, 7. 0-0 Re8, 8.f4 Bf8, 9. Bf3 Na6, 10. Re1 Nc5 is OK for Black

ii) 6. Bf4 0-0, 7. Qd2 Nc6, 8. 0-0-0 Nxd4, 9. Qxd4 Be6.. black plans a queen side pawn storm and has a comfortable game in my opinion

iii) 6. Bc4 0-0, 7. Bb3!? (7. 0-0 Nxe4, 8. Nxe4 d5, 9. Bd3 dxe4, 10. Bxe4 Nd7 is OK for black) is the critical line in my opinion..
7... Na6, 8. 0-0 Nc5, 9. Bg5 Re8 black plans c6, h6 and Nh7.. white has an edge

That was only a summary of some lines.. I have made some additional analysis.. I have to tidy up my pgns, add some comments and maybe upload it for you to see.. Maybe with some games that I have played to see the middlegame plans in action

I consider the whole 3...e5 !? thing absolutely playable at <2300.. It can be a saviour if for some reason against a particular opponent you don't know what to play..

Hope that was helpful and not junk

Cheers

« Last Edit: 04/22/08 at 12:06:19 by trandism »  
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MNb
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #2 - 04/21/08 at 22:07:57
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HoemberChess wrote on 04/21/08 at 19:19:27:
please someone tell me the exact name of this so-called endgame variation (of what!?), which i'd ocassionally like to play as black.

also, i'd like you to name a book or sg. that deals with
- the line above
- the Philidor Defense after 4.Nf3 Nbd7


There is a Dutch book called De Leeuw. There might be an edition in English. For more information:

http://www.thelion.nl/

There your endgame line is called the Lion's yawn.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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JEH
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Re: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
Reply #1 - 04/21/08 at 21:02:10
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HoemberChess wrote on 04/21/08 at 19:19:27:
also, i'd like you to name a book or sg. that deals with


The Philidor files by Chrisitian Bauer covers the Philidor via Pirc move order, including the endgame

Explosive Repetoire by Yrjola and Tella covers the 1. d4 d6 stuff and has a chapter on various ending (or Queenless middlegame) variations.  This book also coveres the Pirc, but you could replace this with the Bauer stuff to get a repertoire based on d6 without g6.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 again
04/21/08 at 19:19:27
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1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.dxe5 (which CB 9 identifies under ECO code B07)
please someone tell me the exact name of this so-called endgame variation (of what!?), which i'd ocassionally like to play as black.

also, i'd like you to name a book or sg. that deals with
- the line above
- the Philidor Defense after 4.Nf3 Nbd7
- 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 Bg4
and
- 1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5
alike.

(the common thing in these 1..d6 lines is that black don't opt for an early ..g6)
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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