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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ready to give up on 1...e5 (Read 18488 times)
trandism
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #21 - 04/24/08 at 09:15:47
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I have abandoned 1...e5 ages ago...

I would only played it if I knew beforehand that my opponent is a ruy lopez player.. Black feels great on the ruy lopez..

Black IS great on most other e4 e5 openings too.. But it doesn't feel great..

There's a difference between being great and feeling great.. hehe
  
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Girkassa
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #20 - 04/24/08 at 08:48:38
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Quote:
But the normal Bc4 or exchange Ruy Lopez do not really give you much.


While I can agree about the exchange Ruy Lopez, I disagree about Bc4 (I suppose you mean 3.Bc4). I play 3...Nf6, giving White three main options:

- 4.Ng5, which is tricky of course, but Black's problem is not the lack of counterplay.
- 4.d4, which I would give a similar evaluation.
- 4.d3, which is more quiet, but if you enjoy the closed Ruy Lopez, you should be very happy to play 4...Be7 here.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #19 - 04/24/08 at 06:59:14
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Stigma wrote on 04/23/08 at 14:49:41:
Judging from the contents of the ChessPublishing archives, I also suggest GM Johnny Hector and GM Tony Kosten as good role models when it comes to beating weaker players with 1...e5.

I think if I ever take up 1...e5, I will have to take a long-term perspective and accept some early losses. My experience when tossing it out in blitz has been uniformly negative, probably due to the mentioned problem with open positions. And the White players always have their trappy pet systems ready... In every other defence I've tried (Sicilian, French, Pirc, even Alekhine) I feel like I can direct the play towards my preferred (strategically unbalanced) positon types, but with 1...e5 I just get stressed looking out for all kinds of tactics and attacks all the time. It's not that I'm extremely weak tactically, but I'm used to getting my pieces out safely first!

You mean you dont get that with the Nc3 advance in the CK, the Sozin in the sicilian or Qg4 in the French?
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #18 - 04/24/08 at 04:42:36
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Dont forget Davies Book "Play 1.e4 e5!".
It covers that stuff to.
  

Best wishes!&&&&Christoph
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #17 - 04/23/08 at 23:42:55
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Stigma,

You said it more articulately than I was able to.  This is exactly the feeling that I have.  In other openings, I can always get developed and early deviations can be 'ignored' as you can usually get a good game by following your basic development plans.  With 1...e5, however, I sometimes feel like I'm called upon to solve a tactical problem, and if I can't find the solution the game is over. Good to know I'm not alone!
Scott

>> In every other defence I've tried (Sicilian, French, Pirc, even Alekhine) I feel like I can direct the play towards my preferred (strategically unbalanced) positon types, but with 1...e5 I just get stressed looking out for all kinds of tactics and attacks all the time. It's not that I'm extremely weak tactically, but I'm used to getting my pieces out safely first! [/quote]
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
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cyronix
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #16 - 04/23/08 at 16:43:18
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tbh. I think ... e5 is the  best response against 1.e4, theoretically.
But you do only get much counterplay against the Ruy Lopez (not the exchange) or the Scotch.
But the normal Bc4 or exchange Ruy Lopez do not really give you much.
And you also have to know a lot of theory in ... e5 complex,
that is why I have chosen not to play the Ruy Lopez.
Try out the french or some sicilian.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #15 - 04/23/08 at 14:49:41
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/22/08 at 11:22:42:
Have a look at some of Mark Hebden's games against weak players, say, to give yourself encouragement! Wink


Judging from the contents of the ChessPublishing archives, I also suggest GM Johnny Hector and GM Tony Kosten as good role models when it comes to beating weaker players with 1...e5.

I think if I ever take up 1...e5, I will have to take a long-term perspective and accept some early losses. My experience when tossing it out in blitz has been uniformly negative, probably due to the mentioned problem with open positions. And the White players always have their trappy pet systems ready... In every other defence I've tried (Sicilian, French, Pirc, even Alekhine) I feel like I can direct the play towards my preferred (strategically unbalanced) positon types, but with 1...e5 I just get stressed looking out for all kinds of tactics and attacks all the time. It's not that I'm extremely weak tactically, but I'm used to getting my pieces out safely first!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Markovich
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #14 - 04/23/08 at 12:19:03
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alumbrado wrote on 04/22/08 at 21:09:48:
Markovich wrote on 04/22/08 at 16:56:32:
The Phildor has its uses, I suppose, but  I wouldn't make it my main defense to 1.e4.  Too passive.


I can't agree with that.  I'd classify the Philidor (well, the Antoshin at least) as a classic counter-punching opening: rather like the Najdorf, Black takes aim at e4.

No, the issue is not whether the Philidor is active enough but whether it is actually any good ...  Undecided


Fair enough.  Clealy my understanding of this defense is behind the times.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #13 - 04/23/08 at 01:56:35
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Thanks so much to everyone for the encouragement and the lines you mentioned.  I think you are correct that I simply don't feel comfortable enough in open games.   

As soon as I get a sharp line that I can't figure out how to handle I'll post it. 

Thanks again everyone,
Scott
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
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MNb
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #12 - 04/22/08 at 21:46:55
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Like all the others I say stick to 1...e5 for a few years. I only gave up when I knew how to deal with all deviations to the Ruy Lopez and lost confidence in the Jänisch-Schliemann.
There has been some very good advise by Willempie and others. In addition you should ask yourself what your goal is against all those deviations: to get solid equality or to maintain as much winning chances as possible? In the first case build your repertoire around the Italian (3.Bc4 Bc5), in the second case around the Two Knights (3...Nf6). As Emms wrote in his introduction, the best way to get more Ruy Lopez games is to punish the early deviations (and to love to meet them)!
Don't switch to the Philidor as long as you like to meet 3.Bb5.

smrex13 wrote on 04/22/08 at 01:42:08:
I'm just amazed at the number of "bad" lines that can destroy Black out of the opening in "sound, classical" lines.

Like TopNotch I ask you to post a few of these "bad" lines.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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alumbrado
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #11 - 04/22/08 at 21:09:48
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Markovich wrote on 04/22/08 at 16:56:32:
The Phildor has its uses, I suppose, but  I wouldn't make it my main defense to 1.e4.  Too passive.


I can't agree with that.  I'd classify the Philidor (well, the Antoshin at least) as a classic counter-punching opening: rather like the Najdorf, Black takes aim at e4.

No, the issue is not whether the Philidor is active enough but whether it is actually any good ...  Undecided
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #10 - 04/22/08 at 18:13:14
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Not more than 4...Nd7 Caro or Fort Knox, and I've seen 1400s play those.  Lips Sealed
  
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Markovich
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #9 - 04/22/08 at 16:56:32
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Holbox wrote on 04/22/08 at 15:29:22:
I think that your problems with 1...e5 are the open positions. I had, and have, the same problem (I'm +2100 now). If you don't feel comfortable with open positions then you won't improve far. I mean you are winning more games with closed positions because your oponent fault's than because your calculation skills. At least this was my case.

But by the way will be possibe to build a simple e5 repertoire arround the Philidor? Will it be as useful as Kaufman's or Marin's?

Thx


The Phildor has its uses, I suppose, but  I wouldn't make it my main defense to 1.e4.  Too passive.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #8 - 04/22/08 at 15:29:22
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I think that your problems with 1...e5 are the open positions. I had, and have, the same problem (I'm +2100 now). If you don't feel comfortable with open positions then you won't improve far. I mean you are winning more games with closed positions because your oponent fault's than because your calculation skills. At least this was my case.

But by the way will be possibe to build a simple e5 repertoire arround the Philidor? Will it be as useful as Kaufman's or Marin's?

Thx
  

"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
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Markovich
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #7 - 04/22/08 at 15:01:36
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fluffy wrote on 04/22/08 at 03:00:54:
I would play 1...e5 every game if there was no Ruy Lopez! Just learn the junk, whether with Emms, Kaufman, or Marin.


Exactly.  One of the best reasons to play 1...e5, in American weekend Swisses anyway, is the amazingly high percentage of King's Gambits you get to face.  And similar.

smrex13: don't give up.  Bear down and learn the stuff, not by rote but because its really, really interesting!  I suspect you're not as comfortable as you should be in open positions, since you talked about success with the Closed Spanish and lack of it elsewhere.  I suggest you play over a bundle of games played in open positions.  Or pick some lines of the Two Knights and analyze them to death.  I don't think the Traxler is quite sound, but analyzing and even playing it might benefit you.  Or play and analyze the defense to the Ponziani that goes 3...d5 4.Qa4 Bd7 and so forth.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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