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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ready to give up on 1...e5 (Read 18481 times)
Lou_Cyber
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #6 - 04/22/08 at 13:30:01
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Well, if you played the Najdorf before you should know how it is:

At my own club level i only get one out of three sicilians. The rest is Alapin, Grand Prix, Wing Gambit, Closed, Morra and the like.

This only annoyed me in my first sicilian year after I burnt the Midnight oil on the Svesh. Now I mastered a firm Anti- repertoire, statistics show that I score better against the Anti-sicilians than in the open sicilian (perhaps time to work on the Svesh again, is it!? Huh ).

So you´ll always have to play some sidelines, but the task should be easier than the major work with the Ruy Lopez.
  

If you try, you may lose. If you don´t try, you have lost.
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #5 - 04/22/08 at 11:22:42
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Even when I mostly just played the Sicilian and French as Black I used to like playing 1...e5 against weak players in the first few rounds of opens as they always played these silly lines, and by simply developing my pieces quickly and sensibly I found I would win in half an hour or so!
Have a look at some of Mark Hebden's games against weak players, say, to give yourself encouragement! Wink
  
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #4 - 04/22/08 at 08:39:48
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Funny that you should worry about those lines. I find the scotch far more annoying.

In any case for these sidelines they fall into a couple of categories, which dictate your counterplan. Btw dont think they are feeble sidelines, they have been played for centuries and many modern books have big holes in their coverage.
Basically you have this:
-White plays f4 (Vienna and KG). These lines are tricky, but imo there are a couple of excellent antidotes. Pick one, study it and noworries anymore.
-Lines with c3 and d4 (Eg the Giuoco). Target the e4 pawn with d5 and if possible Nxe4 (rule of the thumb is to play Nxe4 whenever it is not directly wrong or when you can follow up with d5).
-Lines with c3 and d3. Play is analogous to the Closed Spanish, though better for black.
-Lines with d3 and no c3 (Vienna and Piannissimo). Dont castle too quickly and stay on the coffee.
-Lines with a d4-gambit. Aim for a quick counter with d5 and equality is assured. If the Italian is in your repertoire you cn temporarily support the d4-pawn with Bc5 after which you will often transpose to the Italian, ie 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.0-0 Bc5 5.c3 Nf6 and you are in the Giouco mainline.
-Lines with d4 which are not a gambit like the Scotch. They can be nasty, either aim for d5 or go for quick development and then try and push d5. Here you always have a backup in case you get surprised in the opening, by playing d6 and go for a Philidor setup. It is not very active, but very resilient.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #3 - 04/22/08 at 07:44:33
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smrex13 wrote on 04/22/08 at 01:42:08:
My opponents have spent thousands of hours honing their opening traps.  Of course, they play 'unsound' openings, but they are openings that can't be found in any opening book.  


Yes they can. Indeed, if there's one area of opening theory where dubious lines really have been investigated, it's 1.e4 e5.

One reason why I play open games is that many club players like to play these openings. Good, let them! If they were sound, they wouldn't be obscure. As they're not sound, they can be refuted. You don't have to know them all in order to do this - you just need experience in playing against them and you need to keep your head and not assume either:

(a) that your opponent is winning just because thy have an attack ;

(b) that your opponent has vast knowledge or indeed experience of the line they're playing.

Indeed, given that they're probably playing these variations in order to evade the work that comes in studying the main lines - and that your opponents are not, I suspect, professional players - you can probably be pretty confident about (b).

Yes, you will lose some games at first through unfamilarity with the strength or weakness of certain ideas, just as you would in any other opening. I did, too (and I won't claim I'll never lose to an obscure line again!) but I did what everybody needs to do - study the game afterwards, play around with the pieces, find a better idea, learn.

You don't, actually, ned to memorise everything - or, indeed, very much. You do need to do some work but the most important thing is to have faith in the soundness of your position and in your ability to play it.
  
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #2 - 04/22/08 at 03:00:54
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I would play 1...e5 every game if there was no Ruy Lopez! Just learn the junk, whether with Emms, Kaufman, or Marin.
  
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Re: Ready to give up on 1...e5
Reply #1 - 04/22/08 at 02:51:24
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smrex13 wrote on 04/22/08 at 01:42:08:
Hi everyone,

I hope that this message find you all well.  I have been playing 1...e5 in response to 1.e4 for about a year now.  I was motivated by the number of talented players (far more talented than I) who claimed that chess player should play 1...e5 for several years.  

I have to say, though, that I'm really getting discouraged.  I love the closed Lopez, and I've had some very rewarding victories (and losses) in this opening.  For me, it's the reason to play chess.  Nevertheless, I have to play hundreds of games in the Guioco Piano, King's Gambit, Center Game, etc. to play even one Lopez.  My opponents have spent thousands of hours honing their opening traps.  Of course, they play 'unsound' openings, but they are openings that can't be found in any opening book.  So, my chess study is nothing but endless memorization of opening lines, trying to stay on the board.

I don't have any trouble playing other openings.  In fact, I have a very good record in main line Najdorfs, Winawers, Panovs, etc.  So, I'm not sure how to proceed.  Do I just spend all my chess time memorizing obscure lines, or do I play the French, Caro, or Sicilian, and use my chess intuition and skill to gain rating points.?  Obviously, players like Nigel Short play world class chess with lines like the QGD, so a classical opening repertoire should be the goal of anyone at my level.  

I'm just amazed at the number of "bad" lines that can destroy Black out of the opening in "sound, classical" lines.

Please help!
Scott

Scott


Take comfort in knowing that 99% of these obscure lines are bad for White and the other 1% are about equal at best. I have heard the same lament concerning the preparation involved in playing 1...e5, but the good news is that the pay off is worth, in fact for a change of pace I plan to give my Dragon a rest for awhile and return to my classical roots.  Cheesy

By the way, would you mind terribly posting a few of these ahem 'unbooked' openings that have you in a spot of bother. My experience is that most of these rare or unbooked tries are usually garbage, but ya never know, sometimes one guy's trash is another guy's treasure.

Tops Smiley    
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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smrex13
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Ready to give up on 1...e5
04/22/08 at 01:42:08
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Hi everyone,

I hope that this message find you all well.  I have been playing 1...e5 in response to 1.e4 for about a year now.  I was motivated by the number of talented players (far more talented than I) who claimed that chess player should play 1...e5 for several years. 

I have to say, though, that I'm really getting discouraged.  I love the closed Lopez, and I've had some very rewarding victories (and losses) in this opening.  For me, it's the reason to play chess.  Nevertheless, I have to play hundreds of games in the Guioco Piano, King's Gambit, Center Game, etc. to play even one Lopez.  My opponents have spent thousands of hours honing their opening traps.  Of course, they play 'unsound' openings, but they are openings that can't be found in any opening book.  So, my chess study is nothing but endless memorization of opening lines, trying to stay on the board.

I don't have any trouble playing other openings.  In fact, I have a very good record in main line Najdorfs, Winawers, Panovs, etc.  So, I'm not sure how to proceed.  Do I just spend all my chess time memorizing obscure lines, or do I play the French, Caro, or Sicilian, and use my chess intuition and skill to gain rating points.?  Obviously, players like Nigel Short play world class chess with lines like the QGD, so a classical opening repertoire should be the goal of anyone at my level. 

I'm just amazed at the number of "bad" lines that can destroy Black out of the opening in "sound, classical" lines.

Please help!
Scott

Scott
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
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