(UTC)
Latest Updates:
(Moderators: proustiskeen, trw)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Berlin help! (Read 7331 times)
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #12 - 05/16/08 at 20:14:45
Post Tools
I assume I can expect a chapter on this in your coming book? Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IMJohnCox
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1551
Location: London
Joined: 01/28/06
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #11 - 05/16/08 at 19:35:16
Post Tools
Kramnik called 4 d3 'rather a dangerous move' and I believe lost four consecutive games against it (is there any other position from which he's ever done this?), and Carlsen recently lost to Radjabov after it. So I wouldn't myself treat it quite as lightly as Tony does.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TimS
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 458
Location: London
Joined: 11/02/05
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #10 - 05/09/08 at 13:46:17
Post Tools
Chevalier wrote on 05/09/08 at 12:21:48:
I think the 4...Ne7!? variation was covered in a recent NIC Magazine under the SOS section - the conclusion was that with best play, Black should be able to equalise.

Hmm, although I have played it twice, I recall seeing analysis that suggested White gets quite an initiative with precise play.
However I haven't see the SOS article, and anyway it could be the article goes deep enough to show the initiative peters out eventually without White gaining a permanent advantage.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chevalier
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265
Joined: 04/11/08
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #9 - 05/09/08 at 12:21:48
Post Tools
I think the 4...Ne7!? variation was covered in a recent NIC Magazine under the SOS section - the conclusion was that with best play, Black should be able to equalise.
  
Nothing has meaning or value other than the meaning and value that you give it.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3152
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #8 - 05/09/08 at 11:59:48
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 05/08/08 at 16:14:38:
Eh?  I guess you mean 4...d6 followed by ...g6.

Oops! Yes! Embarrassed
  
Back to top
WWWFacebookTwitter  
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #7 - 05/08/08 at 19:05:27
Post Tools
MarinFan wrote on 05/08/08 at 08:15:37:
Hello,

Kaufman in his book Advantage in black and white, or something similar, covers 4. d3 Bc5 in four or five games. The funny 4... Ne7 has been played by some good players too.

Bye John S


thank you i'll check that out!


GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/08/08 at 15:56:00:
trw wrote on 05/06/08 at 23:48:54:
A rather dull line that i've been unable to prepare adequately (due to lack of games played in it!) is what I need help with. All the authors I find on this subject seem to skip this line entirely stating it provides 'no problems' for black. Be that as it may, it is still a mainline response!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3

thats the line... I've been playing both d6 and Bc5 in this line and found them to lead to rather boring but equal games where neither side has a clear plan.

This is the reason I play the Berlin as Black, hoping they will play 4 d3 - 4...Bc5 is good, as Markovich says, it is like a Bishop's Opening where the white light-squared bishop is misplaced! Smiley
I've also recommended 4...g6 to my students.



any good book source you might recommend for the Bc5 lines to teach myself?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4904
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #6 - 05/08/08 at 16:14:38
Post Tools
GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/08/08 at 15:56:00:
trw wrote on 05/06/08 at 23:48:54:
A rather dull line that i've been unable to prepare adequately (due to lack of games played in it!) is what I need help with. All the authors I find on this subject seem to skip this line entirely stating it provides 'no problems' for black. Be that as it may, it is still a mainline response!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3

thats the line... I've been playing both d6 and Bc5 in this line and found them to lead to rather boring but equal games where neither side has a clear plan.

This is the reason I play the Berlin as Black, hoping they will play 4 d3 - 4...Bc5 is good, as Markovich says, it is like a Bishop's Opening where the white light-squared bishop is misplaced! Smiley
I've also recommended 4...g6 to my students.


Eh?  I guess you mean 4...d6 followed by ...g6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3152
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #5 - 05/08/08 at 15:56:00
Post Tools
trw wrote on 05/06/08 at 23:48:54:
A rather dull line that i've been unable to prepare adequately (due to lack of games played in it!) is what I need help with. All the authors I find on this subject seem to skip this line entirely stating it provides 'no problems' for black. Be that as it may, it is still a mainline response!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3

thats the line... I've been playing both d6 and Bc5 in this line and found them to lead to rather boring but equal games where neither side has a clear plan.

This is the reason I play the Berlin as Black, hoping they will play 4 d3 - 4...Bc5 is good, as Markovich says, it is like a Bishop's Opening where the white light-squared bishop is misplaced! Smiley
I've also recommended 4...g6 to my students.
  
Back to top
WWWFacebookTwitter  
IP Logged
 
MarinFan
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 430
Location: Leeds
Joined: 04/04/06
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #4 - 05/08/08 at 08:15:37
Post Tools
Hello,

Kaufman in his book Advantage in black and white, or something similar, covers 4. d3 Bc5 in four or five games. The funny 4... Ne7 has been played by some good players too.

Bye John S
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #3 - 05/07/08 at 15:24:14
Post Tools
4.d3 Bc5! is perfectly fine for Black. It's not boring, it's that you don't understand how to play it as well as you should. Get yourself a book on the Italian Game. I found Guioco Piano by Gufeld and Stetsko useful. The principles are similar.  If anything, the Spanish bishop is misplaced.

However if it appeals to you, you can also put your KB on g7 with every expectation of an equal game.
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TimS
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 458
Location: London
Joined: 11/02/05
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #2 - 05/07/08 at 09:35:30
Post Tools
In the meantime, here's an idea I've scored 2 out of 2 with:

[Event "Isle of Man International"]
[Site "Isle of Man"]
[Date "2007.09.27"]
[EventDate "2007.09.22"]
[Round "6.43"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "John G Nicholson"]
[Black "Timothy Spanton"]
[ECO "C65"]
[WhiteElo "1910"]
[BlackElo "1982"]
[PlyCount "10"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Ne7 5. Nxe5 c6 0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
browniesbane
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 22
Location: Katy, Texas
Joined: 04/12/07
Gender: Male
Re: Berlin help!
Reply #1 - 05/07/08 at 01:12:26
Post Tools
There is no picture of it on the updated website for QC. Delayed?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
trw
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1414
Joined: 05/06/08
Gender: Male
Berlin help!
05/06/08 at 23:48:54
Post Tools
Hi all. I've been playing the Berlin for about a year now (i'm aware of its drawish reputation akin to the Petroff) but I enjoy holding the two bishops as trump.

A rather dull line that i've been unable to prepare adequately (due to lack of games played in it!) is what I need help with. All the authors I find on this subject seem to skip this line entirely stating it provides 'no problems' for black. Be that as it may, it is still a mainline response!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3

thats the line... I've been playing both d6 and Bc5 in this line and found them to lead to rather boring but equal games where neither side has a clear plan.

One of the most interesting games I have had in this line involved a double rook sac with the response 4.... d6 I submitted it to Chess Life to have published as 'most unusual' under 1700 game. They refused to publish on the grounds that d3 d6 is such mainline theory every player under 1700 has this memorized. If this is the case why can't I ever find a good book or a ton of games on this plan and theory?

Please help!

I am looking forward to John's book on the Berlin I hope it covers my line with at least some suggestions!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge