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Normal Topic Bird's From Gambit line (Read 5659 times)
BirdBrain
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #6 - 05/29/09 at 15:28:28
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A lot of the positions in the From's require positional understanding...Many Black players that aren't familiar with the lines adopt various means for countering White's setup.  I have seen the ...Nf6 lines quite a lot recently, and in my most recent game, they are playing for Nc6 in the setup.  Black will have activity, but I believe with a bit of neutralizing activity and such, within a few moves, White will be pushing Black's pieces around with his pawn structure. 

I have learned that I used to be scared when I ventured into From's Gambit, because of the activity that I provided Black.  I would play in a box - with specific ideas, and such.  Castle quickly, etc.  Shoot, I had one game I pulled out recently where my king quickly went to d3 to help defend my pawn structure.  I ended up winning after a hard-fought battle to neutralize Black's antics - the central pawns ended up paying off.

Personally, I wonder if the Bf4 line is really bad.  I know that Bird lost to Lasker, but he only played one realm of the line.  I haven't really studied the game, but Bf4 is an active move, and Black does have to prove that White is not better.  I think it is worth adventuring - sometimes, the only way to truly know what you think about something is to play it a bunch of times, leave it alone for a while, and then come back later when you have learned some more tricks. 

Also, forcing yourself to play certain positions forces you to look for the best move.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #5 - 04/29/09 at 17:05:48
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I don't think the line 5.d4 g4 6.Ne5 is too bad for Black.  Black has 6...Qe7 and 6...Qf6 as well as the main line 6...Bxe5.  The main problem is 5.g3! with the follow up 5...g4 6.Nh4!.  It is indeed a land mine variation- I've looked at the key positions and White is definitely better.  Black's attack fizzles out once White gets castled on the queenside.

Thus I maintain that the best way to play the From is either 4...Nf6, 2...Nc6, or a sort of Neo-From with 1.f4 Nc6 (or even 1.f4 d6) followed by 2...e5.
  
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MNb
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #4 - 04/29/09 at 04:05:41
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This game is why Taimanov back in 1980 gave the improvement 16.Bxc6+ bxc6 17.Qxc6+ Kf7 18.Qxc5 "with an advantage", without mentioning the game Van Dettingen-Sosnik, 1967, in which this was played.
  
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Jormechea
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #3 - 04/28/09 at 15:06:50
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From my research the froms gambit unless your playing the mestel variation is a land mine variation. If white avoids all the land mines he is fine and has a pull. Taylor who happened to write an entire book on the bird is a good example.

[Event "Minneapolis HB Global op"]
[Site "Minneapolis"]
[Date "2005.05.18"]
[Round "9"]
[White "Taylor,Timothy"]
[Black "Becerra Rivero,Julio"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "A02"]
1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 g5

The move 4...g5 is not to my taste. I believe that white can answer 5. g3. - Larsen in his book Selected Games -

5.g3 g4 6.Nh4 Ne7 7.d4 Ng6 8.Nxg6

Simple and good white does not fear the open h-file as blacks play is based only on the one move tricks I mentioned, and the white player should know how to avoid them. -Taylor-

8... hxg6
9.Qd3

(if you play 9.Bg2?? Rxh2 10. Rxh2 Bxg3+ will be an unpleasant surprise.)

9... Nc6 10.c3 Qe7 11.Bg2 Bd7 12.Nd2 0-0-0 13.Ne4 f5 14.Nxd6+ cxd6 15.Qe3 Qf7 16.d5 Ne5
17.Qxa7 Rde8 18.Be3 Nc4 19.Bd4 Qe7 20.e4 Qg5 21.0-0 Qh6 22.Bxh8 Rxh8 23.Qd4 Ne3 24.h4 gxh3
25.Bf3 fxe4 26.Bxe4 Nxf1 27.Rxf1 Re8 28.Kh2 Qh5 29.Bf3 Qf5 30.c4 g5 31.g4 Qc2+ 32.Rf2 Qc1
33.Qd2 Qb1 34.b4 Qa1 35.Qb2 Qe1 36.c5 Bb5 37.cxd6 Kb8 38.d7 Rd8 39.Qd4 Bxd7 40.d6 Rf8
41.Qc5 Rc8 42.Re2 Qxe2+ 43.Bxe2 Rxc5 44.bxc5 b6 45.cxb6 Kb7 46.Kxh3 Kxb6 47.Bd3 Be6 48.a3 Kc6
49.Bf5  1-0

I wont give you all of Taylors analysis because i think you should check out his book. He is an interesting man for sure. But if you would like to see the mestel here is another game taylor played.

[Event "Lone Pine op"]
[Site "Lone Pine"]
[Date "1978.04.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Taylor,Timothy"]
[Black "Mestel,A Jonathan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A02"]
1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.d4 Ng4 6.Qd3 c5 7.Qe4+ Be6 8.Ng5 Bxh2
9.Nxe6 Qh4+ 10.Kd2 fxe6 11.Rxh2 Qg5+ 12.e3 Nxh2 13.Qxe6+ Qe7 14.Qc8+ Qd8 15.Bb5+ Nc6 16.Qxb7 0-0
17.Bxc6 Rb8 18.Qd7 Qf6 19.Nc3 cxd4 20.exd4 Rbd8 21.Ne4 Qg6 22.Bd5+ Kh8 23.Qe7 Qxg2+ 24.Kc3 Rfe8
25.Qg5 Qf3+ 26.Kc4 Qe2+ 27.Kc3 Qf3+ 28.Kc4 Qe2+ 29.Kc3 Nf3 30.Qf5 Rxd5 31.Qxd5 Rxe4 32.Bf4 h6
33.Qf5 Nxd4 34.Qf8+ Kh7 35.Rc1 Nb5+ 36.Kb3 Qc4+ 0-1

I would think twice before playing my favorite opening against this man. It seems he is intent on blood shed!
  
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le_gars
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #2 - 05/21/08 at 11:45:44
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In the following line :

1. f4 e5. 2. fxe5 d6 3. exd6 Bxd6 4. Nf3 g5 5. d4 g4 6. Nd5 Bxe5 7. dxe5 Qxd1+ 8. Kxd1 Nc6


9. Bf4 was the move played by Henri Bird himself ! But a loss against Lasker showed that this is certainly not the best way to handle the pawn :

9...Be6 10.e3 0-0-0 (10...Nge7 11.Bb5 0-0-0 12.Kc1 Bd5 13.Rg1 a6 14.Be2 Be6 15.Nc3 h6 16.Bd3 Ng6 17.Bxg6 fxg6 18.Rd1 Rde8 19.e4 g5 20.Bg3 Rhf8 21.b3 h5, =+ Bird-Lasker, Newcastle on Tyne, 1892) 11.Nd2 Nge7 12.Bb5 Bd5 13.Ke2 h6, and black has compensation.

9.Bg5 or 9.Nc3 (my favourite) are stronger because they defend indirectly the pawn on e5 while putting the pieces on better squares.
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Bird's From Gambit line
Reply #1 - 05/21/08 at 11:26:03
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Again: why playing Ne5 when Nh4 is so easy to handle?
See: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1201187129/15
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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trw
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Bird's From Gambit line
05/20/08 at 20:36:53
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I have always wondered in this particular line of the bird's:
1. f4 e5. 2. fxe5 d6 3. exd6 Bxd6 4. Nf3 g5 5. d4 g4 6. Nd5 Bxe5 7. dxe5 Qxd1+ 8. Kxd1 Nc6 9. Bf4

I think white is now a little better. He holds the extra pawn for the moment he has the bishop pair ... the loss of castling rights seems negligable with Queens off.

Yet theory here continues not with 9. Bf4 but with either 9. Bg5 or 9. Nc3 Why? 9. Bg5 just provides but 9... Nxe5 giving black a nice equal game.  9. Nc3 Be6 10. Bf4 now allows black 0-0-0 + gaining a precious tempo. Does anyone have access to some master games with 9. Bf4? Or can you provide some analysis to this? I think white may stand better there. The only games I have been able to find with this line are from Bird himself in the 1800s.
  
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