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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I need study material on the Torre (as White) (Read 25555 times)
MartinC
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #28 - 12/02/10 at 10:24:25
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Not obviously on Chess & Bridge so suspect not published yet.

Random guess but looks likely that they originally contracted Bellin to do it, but that fell through for some reason (boredom perhaps Wink) so Palliser got roped in to cover with the logical consequent delay.
  
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HoemberChess
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #27 - 12/02/10 at 08:46:42
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Starting Out: The Torre Attack

Undecided

What is this supposed to mean?
Not published yet?

I also found this.
  

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*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #26 - 02/01/09 at 19:56:27
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TN wrote on 02/01/09 at 12:02:53:
I have two questions regarding the Torre:

1) In 'Fighting the Anti-King's Indians', what does Dembo recommend for Black? I have searched on the Internet for information, but unfortunately have not found her recommendation.

2) After 2...b6, isn't 3.Bg5 just a little better for White? If 3...Ne4 4.Bf4 White seems to have an improved Trompowsky since Black has committed himself to the slightly inferior ...b6, and if 3...e6 then 4.e4 h6 5.Bf6 Qf6 6.Bd3 or 6.Nc3 seems slightly better for White. Black can play 3...Bb7 as well, but then 4.Nc3/Nbd2 e6 5.e4 will transpose to 3...e6. However, ECO A (2001) claims that each of these variations equalise for Black, and I find this difficult to believe, since normally Black would not play ...b6 at an early stage in either the Trompowsky (1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 b6?! 4.Nf3) or the Torre (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5 h6 4.Bf6 Qf6 5.e4 and now 5...b6?! seems weaker than 5...d6).

@Chess_Addict

Usually Bh4 (otherwise White may as well play the London, where Black doesn't have the somewhat useful ...h6). However, in several cases Bf6 is also a major option, particularly in the early opening (my 2nd question above being one example).


I was somewhat surprised by that too; I'm used to that ...b6 stuff being considered slightly better for White.  Though I'm not sure of the relevance of the Trompovsky comparison, since I assume White would play 4. f3 there (and on 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 b6 3. Bg5 Ne4 he would play 4. Bh4 as far as I know).

Regarding the center-versus-two-bishops thing without ...b6, though, I think equality has probably been the most common view for a long time, perhaps especially with White committed to Nf3 -- though I recall that ECO used to consider it slightly better for White based on a Korchnoi-Karpov game (involving Nf3, Nc3, Qd2 and 0-0-0).


Regarding the Rizzitano book, it might be mentioned that he is dealing with 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6; I'm always reminded of something Edmar Mednis said about 3. Bg5 in that position ("it's a horrible move; after 3...Ne4 White is struggling for equality").
  
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TN
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #25 - 02/01/09 at 12:02:53
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I have two questions regarding the Torre:

1) In 'Fighting the Anti-King's Indians', what does Dembo recommend for Black? I have searched on the Internet for information, but unfortunately have not found her recommendation.

2) After 2...b6, isn't 3.Bg5 just a little better for White? If 3...Ne4 4.Bf4 White seems to have an improved Trompowsky since Black has committed himself to the slightly inferior ...b6, and if 3...e6 then 4.e4 h6 5.Bf6 Qf6 6.Bd3 or 6.Nc3 seems slightly better for White. Black can play 3...Bb7 as well, but then 4.Nc3/Nbd2 e6 5.e4 will transpose to 3...e6. However, ECO A (2001) claims that each of these variations equalise for Black, and I find this difficult to believe, since normally Black would not play ...b6 at an early stage in either the Trompowsky (1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 Ne4 3.Bf4 b6?! 4.Nf3) or the Torre (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5 h6 4.Bf6 Qf6 5.e4 and now 5...b6?! seems weaker than 5...d6).

@Chess_Addict

Usually Bh4 (otherwise White may as well play the London, where Black doesn't have the somewhat useful ...h6). However, in several cases Bf6 is also a major option, particularly in the early opening (my 2nd question above being one example).
  

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Markovich
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #24 - 01/30/09 at 19:15:24
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"As White" is fine, but I strongly recommend you consult Dembo's and Rizzitano's anti-Torre theories, respectively in Fighting the Anti-King's Indians and How to Beat 1.d4.
  

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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #23 - 01/30/09 at 12:41:07
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tracke wrote on 07/24/08 at 12:24:53:
Starting Out: The Torre Attack    
by Robert Bellin
192 p., Everyman, feb 2009

http://www.everymanchess.com/display.php?id=485

tracke  Smiley


The publication date has now been extended to May/June 2009.
  

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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #22 - 09/06/08 at 23:33:05
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Tracke has the latest for sure. For older titles:
A Road to the Master Title by IM Eric Tangborn
How to Play the Torre Attack by Eric Schiller
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #21 - 07/24/08 at 20:47:34
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I play the Torre against Nimzo/QID setups regularly and I have scored many draws against GMs and IMs being much lower rated. My only source was Petrosjans article which is quite amazing in my view.

A question: against ...h6 at any time, do you guys tend to play Bf4 or Bh4 (of course in general, any position is different)?
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #20 - 07/24/08 at 12:24:53
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Starting Out: The Torre Attack   
by Robert Bellin
192 p., Everyman, feb 2009

http://www.everymanchess.com/display.php?id=485

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #19 - 06/15/08 at 08:45:09
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Has anyone seen the Torre Chessbase DVD by Davies? Does he give a full repertoire against all possible Black replies or is it just the traditional Torre with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5 ?
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #18 - 06/08/08 at 09:45:28
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You are right, but I am willing to play against the KID if my opponent uses this tricky move order. I still avoid the Grunfeld when 2..g6 is played.
Why not after 2..d6...? According to the Fritz book, 3.Bg5 would be a '?'-move, while that is not the case after 2..e6/g6/b6. It must have an explanation, which I will find out. Maybe because there is 3..Nbd7, so another knight is at once ready to recapture on f6.
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #17 - 06/07/08 at 09:44:29
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Why not play the Torre after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6?

Surely after 3.c4 you are likely moving into King's Indian territory after 3...g6, which, if you play the Torre after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5, you are looking to avoid?
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #16 - 06/05/08 at 16:06:20
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HoemberChess wrote on 06/05/08 at 11:43:38:
That's good. I saw his video on the London System.

(BTW, I play 3.Bg5 only against 1..Nf6 2..e6/b6/g6, but no other move orders, so it can't be said that I play the Torre exclusively. I play 3.c4 against 2..d6, 2.c4 against 1..d5, and 2.e4 against 1..e6/g6, for example. Do you think it is strange?)


No, I think it's smart.   Wink


  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #15 - 06/05/08 at 11:43:38
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That's good. I saw his video on the London System.

(BTW, I play 3.Bg5 only against 1..Nf6 2..e6/b6/g6, but no other move orders, so it can't be said that I play the Torre exclusively. I play 3.c4 against 2..d6, 2.c4 against 1..d5, and 2.e4 against 1..e6/g6, for example. Do you think it is strange?)
  

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*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #14 - 06/05/08 at 09:50:29
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Chessbase has announced a new DVD (~4hours) for next week: Torre Attack by GM Nigel Davies.

tracke  Smiley
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #13 - 06/02/08 at 13:28:13
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Here is a good site (in french) to recall the principes of the Torre Attack:

http://www.evry-grandroque.com/emmanuel.html
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #12 - 06/01/08 at 22:09:05
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HoemberChess wrote on 05/26/08 at 09:37:19:
No one else plays the Torre as White??  Sad


Eric Tangborn has written a book  : A winning white repertoire where the Torre is the backbone of his repertoire.

Torre is OK. You can win with it against  weaker oponents and against strong oponents its a solid choice.

Another source of study is Mark Hebdens games. He plays the Torre and he has a lot of blood on his hands with this opening.

He has his own move order . He plays the Torre this way :

1.d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c3 !?  And the bishop comes later to g5  This  opening is called The Hebden Torre by J.Cox in his book Dealing with d4 deviations.   page 54

The Hebden Torre is mainly used to avoid a black set up with an early h6.


  

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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #11 - 05/26/08 at 09:37:19
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No one else plays the Torre as White??  Sad
  

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*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #10 - 05/23/08 at 11:56:36
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KM, LR hoember.

Thanks all for that. Very kind.
Think I have a torrent of 'How to open a chess game' so will have a look.

Cheers again,

Bibs
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #9 - 05/23/08 at 08:23:38
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Around here, the book is named "Petroszjan tanít", I think. ("Petrosian teaches")

kylemeister wrote on 05/23/08 at 02:41:44:
There is a chapter/section on the Torre by Petrosian in the 1970s book "How to Open a Chess Game"; I suspect it's the same thing nyoke referred to.

  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #8 - 05/23/08 at 08:20:08
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With 2.Bg5 I give my opponents more options, which I don't like.
I only want to play the Torre on 2..b6/e6/g6 (after 1..Nf6 2.Nf3).
And I play the New York line of Réti Opening as Black, which is the same as the 2..g6 Torre with reversed colors.

Chevalier wrote on 05/22/08 at 04:38:09:
The Trompowsky with the immediate 2.Bg5 tends to lead to much more interesting positions than the Torre. Julian Hodgson along with a number of other British GMs have used this line very successfully.

If Black is a KID player, all he has to remember to equalise is (after 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 0-0 5.c3 d6 6.e4) to play ...Nc6, ...Qe8 and ...e5.

  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #7 - 05/23/08 at 02:48:47
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The Torre article is in Petrosian's Legacy, which is a collection of Petrosian's articles and lecture.  It's a must have.
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #6 - 05/23/08 at 02:41:44
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There is a chapter/section on the Torre by Petrosian in the 1970s book "How to Open a Chess Game"; I suspect it's the same thing nyoke referred to.
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #5 - 05/23/08 at 02:22:04
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the Burgess book is very good. Gufeld and Stesko is dismal.

Nyoke - Where is the Petrosian article? Sounds interesting.
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #4 - 05/22/08 at 19:04:55
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There is an article by Petrosian on the Torre which is named iirc 'Why I like to put my bishop on g5' that I thought is 'fundamental' for any Torre player...
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #3 - 05/22/08 at 11:18:10
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Kylemeister is right - 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 0-0 5.c3 d6 6.e4 the best move is 6...c5! (7.dxc5 dxc5), practically anything based on ...e5 will give White an edge.
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #2 - 05/22/08 at 05:09:02
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Chevalier wrote on 05/22/08 at 04:38:09:
If Black is a KID player, all he has to remember to equalise is (after 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 0-0 5.c3 d6 6.e4) to play ...Nc6, ...Qe8 and ...e5.


That's a pretty categorical-sounding statement.  It strikes me as a doubtful one, too; my impression is that 6...Nc6 7. Bb5 is rather promising for White.
  
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Re: I need study material on the Torre (as White)
Reply #1 - 05/22/08 at 04:38:09
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The Trompowsky with the immediate 2.Bg5 tends to lead to much more interesting positions than the Torre. Julian Hodgson along with a number of other British GMs have used this line very successfully.

If Black is a KID player, all he has to remember to equalise is (after 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 0-0 5.c3 d6 6.e4) to play ...Nc6, ...Qe8 and ...e5.
  

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I need study material on the Torre (as White)
05/21/08 at 09:09:47
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I'd like to take up this opening into my repertoire against 1..Nf6. (on 1.d4) My opponents are below 2200, so I think it is reasonable.

For example, I'd be interested in the name of any articles written on the subject. Please tell me the exact name of the sources.

I already know about
- video "Foxy Opening 50 - The Torre Attack" by GM James Plaskett
- book "Winning with the Torre Attack" by Eduard Gufeld & Oleg Stetsko  (1993)
- Fritz Trainer "Queen's pawn openings" by A. Martin (2007)
- book "THE GAMBIT GUIDE TO THE TORRE ATTACK" by Graham Burgess (1999)
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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