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Poll Question: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
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Rossolimo or Moscow    
  32 (27.6%)
d6/e6/Nc6 3.Nc3    
  2 (1.7%)
Grand Prix Attack    
  14 (12.1%)
Closed Sicilian    
  10 (8.6%)
Morra Gambit    
  10 (8.6%)
2.Ne2 or 2.Nc3 3.Nge2    
  1 (0.9%)
Wing Gambit or 2.b3    
  4 (3.4%)
Alapin Sicilian    
  35 (30.2%)
2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4 4.Qd4    
  2 (1.7%)
Other (e.g 2.d3,2.g3,2.Na3,etc)    
  6 (5.2%)




Total votes: 116
« Last Modified by: Chevalier on: 06/02/08 at 12:16:41 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian? (Read 17626 times)
TimS
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #36 - 09/17/08 at 09:46:01
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tipau wrote on 09/16/08 at 13:22:10:
Fair point. 2...g6 does allow a quick counterattack in the centre.
I've only faced 2...g6 a couple of times OTB, both time playing 5.e5 Bg7 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Bb5 - I think this line is considered quite good for White (at least it is in all my 2.c3 sicilian sources) and nothing in my games has convinced me otherwise. Black's counterplay with ...f6 never seems quite enough.
Of course many c3 players will be very happy playing into an IQP position too, in which they'd be very comfortable. I wouldn't say playing against an IQP would suit counterattacking players.

True
  
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MNb
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #35 - 09/16/08 at 21:36:00
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1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 e6 6.f4 Nge7 7.Nf3 d5 and frankly speaking I never have looked at 8.e5. I just trusted my library. Fortunately for me White has scored rather badly after 8.e5. Geller (1970) and Ganguly (2007) have won with 8...Nf5, although against inferior opponents. So I suppose a blockade setup (Nf5 and h5) is a good idea.

1.e4 c5 2.c3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Bd3 cxd4 5.cxd4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 and I suppose Tipau means 7.Nf3 0-0 8.0-0 Nc6 9.h3. This is indeed one of those lines where accurate play is demanded, as the normal 9...e5 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.Be3 and 12.Bc4 gives White good play. I planned 9...Nd7 following Schmittdiel-Canfell, Oostende 1991, intending the improvement 20...e5. Black has to do something for his queenside first.
Look, I don't pretend that 2...d6/2...b6/2...g6 are better than 2...d5/2...Nf6. Black's problem though is what to do against weaker opponents who play 2.c3. I agree that White's chances for an edge after 2...d6 are better, that's why I wrote "challenge". Black's idea is that White has to play some forcing chess, so the game will be more imbalanced. Concerning that centre: like the Alekhine, like the KID, like the Benoni Black wants to counterattack that same centre at the right moment, thus avoiding safe, solid positions - and challenging White's +=.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #34 - 09/16/08 at 14:30:19
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It might be noted that NCO cites a couple of games in which White played 8. 0-0 and then 9. e5, one of them between Anand and Kasparov, and both as leading to an unclear position (which is unsurprising to me).
  
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Strategy_Rules
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #33 - 09/16/08 at 14:13:51
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Quote:
5...e6 avoids 5...d6 6.f4 e6 as 5...e6 6.f4 Nge7 7.Nf3 d5 immediately equalizes.


I always thought 8.e5 is better for white. What do you intend after 8.e5 with black ?
  
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tipau
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #32 - 09/16/08 at 13:22:10
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Fair point. 2...g6 does allow a quick counterattack in the centre.
I've only faced 2...g6 a couple of times OTB, both time playing 5.e5 Bg7 6.Nc3 Nc6 7.Bb5 - I think this line is considered quite good for White (at least it is in all my 2.c3 sicilian sources) and nothing in my games has convinced me otherwise. Black's counterplay with ...f6 never seems quite enough.
Of course many c3 players will be very happy playing into an IQP position too, in which they'd be very comfortable. I wouldn't say playing against an IQP would suit counterattacking players.
  

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TimS
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #31 - 09/16/08 at 11:17:32
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tipau wrote on 09/16/08 at 03:28:42:
MNb,

After 2.c3 d6 3.d4 most of my games have continued 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 cxd4 5.cxd4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.h3 0-0 8.0-0 and I think White has a nice +=. Apart from my own games my only knowledge is an old Adams-Gelfand game which went very well for White.

I also had a game where an FM opponent played 3...Nd7 4.Nf3 and then fianchettoed both bishops. I thought it was a reasonable way of avoiding any theory, but still White has his small advantage in my opinion with natural moves.

Of course there are other possibilities too; maybe 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 Qc7 or even 3...Qc7 but I'm not really convinced that White can't play natural moves again and keep an edge.

Undoubtably you've looked at this line more closely than me and so I'm interested which line you think is Black's best. To be honest I just don't like the idea of playing 2...d6 (or 2...b6 or 2...g6) myself as it gives White a nice centre, which is exactly what he was hoping for with 2.c3.

I guess it depends what you regard as a nice centre. After 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.cxd4 d5 White gets an IQP after 5.exd5 or is obliged to defend his centre against Black attacks, eg ...f6, after 5.e5. Perhaps these lines suit Blacks who like to counterattack.
  
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tipau
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #30 - 09/16/08 at 03:28:42
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MNb,

After 2.c3 d6 3.d4 most of my games have continued 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 cxd4 5.cxd4 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.h3 0-0 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.0-0 and I think White has a nice +=. Apart from my own games my only knowledge is an old Adams-Gelfand game which went very well for White.

I also had a game where an FM opponent played 3...Nd7 4.Nf3 and then fianchettoed both bishops. I thought it was a reasonable way of avoiding any theory, but still White has his small advantage in my opinion with natural moves.

Of course there are other possibilities too; maybe 3...Nf6 4.Bd3 Qc7 or even 3...Qc7 but I'm not really convinced that White can't play natural moves again and keep an edge.

Undoubtably you've looked at this line more closely than me and so I'm interested which line you think is Black's best. To be honest I just don't like the idea of playing 2...d6 (or 2...b6 or 2...g6) myself as it gives White a nice centre, which is exactly what he was hoping for with 2.c3.
« Last Edit: 09/16/08 at 21:50:45 by tipau »  

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MNb
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #29 - 09/16/08 at 02:08:02
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I challenge White's advantage after 2.c3 d6. It demands accurate play though in several lines.
  

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tipau
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #28 - 09/16/08 at 01:03:37
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The Alapin Sicilian for me. I've played it myself for years and I still have a headache playing against it.
I also think it's the strongest anti-Sicilian rather than Bb5(+) lines which most people say.
I think the popular lines with 2...Nf6 are best but then White usually has the choice between heading for very drawish lines or playing ambitiously.
Lots of people give advice like "you can go 2...d6 or 2...g6 and just play chess" but I think White gets a nice advantage against such side lines.
  

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MNb
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #27 - 09/10/08 at 21:30:10
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5...e6 avoids 5...d6 6.f4 e6 as 5...e6 6.f4 Nge7 7.Nf3 d5 immediately equalizes.
I don't know about 5...e6 6.Be3 Nd4 except that it is an option.

And 5...Rb8 6.Be3 b5 does not lose a pawn after 7.Bxc5 b4!
  

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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #26 - 09/10/08 at 12:00:24
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I do not know what the advantage of 5...e6 could be, because after 6.Be3 the pawn on c5 is attacked and 6...d6 would just transpose now. Or do you like 6...Nd4 ?
  
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MNb
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #25 - 09/09/08 at 21:50:22
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Or 5...e6 or 5...Rb8, imo more flexible than 5...d6 and 6...e6/6...Rb8.
  

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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #24 - 09/09/08 at 16:56:39
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Strategy_Rules wrote on 09/09/08 at 13:56:53:
Actually, what do you recommend after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 6.Be3. I still dislike this. Fortunately, I do not get it  often.




Well, what this immediately reminds me of is

(1)  losing once with 6...e6 in a line which was supposed to be unclear, but seems to be clearly better for White (later books did reflect that view);

(2)  6...Rb8 and what one GM (Raymond Keene) wrote about it, approximately "I like this move very much.  Ideally, Black would like to establish a queenside advantage quickly, before committing his kingside development to any set pattern."
  
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #23 - 09/09/08 at 13:56:53
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For me the most annoying Anti-Sicilian is 3.Bb5 if I played 2..Nc6, which I do at the moment. Before I played 2...e6.Here the most annoying one for me was the kings indian attack, 3.d3. I also played 2...d6 for some time. During this phase I disliked most the closed sicilian 2.Nc3. Alapin is not a bad opening for white, but a bit risky, too. Most of my opponents did not even equalize with white because of their limited theoretical knowledge. So Alapin is welcome Smiley

Actually, what do you recommend after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 6.Be3. I still dislike this. Fortunately, I do not get it  often.


  
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Re: What is the most annoying Anti-Sicilian?
Reply #22 - 09/07/08 at 15:03:29
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@MNb

Aha!! Thanks for drawing my attention on ...b6, I like playing these structures! Goona take a shot on that one, next time it comes around Smiley
  
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