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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ABC of the Benoni DVD (Read 21894 times)
naughtyknight
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #40 - 10/25/08 at 19:45:21
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I understand people's complaints about DVD's in general... and yet, I tried to learn an opening from a Starting Out book recently, and failed to connect with the opening in any shape or form (It was the 'Modern').

I believe the 'plan' is to buy a DVD presentation of an opening you fancy, learn the DVD lines... play it a bit, then if you like it, buy a book to fill the gaps.

I really believe in this approach, as I'm learning the Benko from an Andrew Martin DVD, and I'm finding it more interesting than ploughing through a theoretical work.
  
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wcywing
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #39 - 10/25/08 at 01:44:23
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LeeRoth wrote on 10/25/08 at 01:23:33:
wcywing wrote on 10/22/08 at 23:44:10:
alumbrado wrote on 10/08/08 at 11:01:48:
Well, there is certainly a famous game Korchnoi-Kasparov from, I think, the Lucerne Olympiad in 1982.  It was one of the games that turned me on to playing the Modern Benoni.


yea, that game was exciting.  however i find it ironic that Kasparov no longer plays it, then he demolished every benoni player with the flick knife and scared everyone for a while from playing it, for a while anyway.  


I, too, was inspired by that game.  The young Kasparov really was a force of nature.  And the scary thing is that after being tempered in the forge of five world championship matches with Karpov, he got even better.



no one could have stopped until Kramnik, i hope he comes back to chess, just imagine him in a match against Carlsen, win or lose Carlsen will be even stronger.  maybe Kasparov will play the Benoni again.   Grin
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #38 - 10/25/08 at 01:23:33
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wcywing wrote on 10/22/08 at 23:44:10:
alumbrado wrote on 10/08/08 at 11:01:48:
Well, there is certainly a famous game Korchnoi-Kasparov from, I think, the Lucerne Olympiad in 1982.  It was one of the games that turned me on to playing the Modern Benoni.


yea, that game was exciting.  however i find it ironic that Kasparov no longer plays it, then he demolished every benoni player with the flick knife and scared everyone for a while from playing it, for a while anyway.  


I, too, was inspired by that game.  The young Kasparov really was a force of nature.  And the scary thing is that after being tempered in the forge of five world championship matches with Karpov, he got even better.


  
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LeeRoth
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #37 - 10/25/08 at 01:20:01
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The only way to learn the Benoni is to play it.  At club level, it's an opening that's more about attitude than about theoretical knowledge.  Strive for the initiative, take chances, stay active and don't be afraid to sac.  You will be rewarded.  Of course, you'll also get crushed every once in a while, but that is the nature of the beast.  There are a couple of lines where you have to know enough theory not to get mauled right out of the opening.  But otherwise my advice would be not to get too hung up trying to memorize the theory.  

Just my opinion.  You may resume your normal programming.


  
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wcywing
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #36 - 10/24/08 at 21:24:46
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MilenPetrov wrote on 10/24/08 at 15:01:08:
Hello, I got the DVD, but I am not impressed. For me it looks like a money making. I am not impressed byt he style of the DVD, as it is for other DVDs produced by Andrew Martin. For me it is better to get a Starting Out book and go go thru it instead of spending money for such a DVD. At least the games are available in the Mega and there are also a lot of hard commented games.


i guess the dvd did not inspire you.  has anyone have a good experience with chessbase dvd's?  i do think Martin is right about a dvd, it is easier to learn from it than a book.  however you will need a book for more indepth coverage, especially with the Benoni. 
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #35 - 10/24/08 at 15:01:08
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Hello, I got the DVD, but I am not impressed. For me it looks like a money making. I am not impressed byt he style of the DVD, as it is for other DVDs produced by Andrew Martin. For me it is better to get a Starting Out book and go go thru it instead of spending money for such a DVD. At least the games are available in the Mega and there are also a lot of hard commented games.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #34 - 10/22/08 at 23:44:10
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alumbrado wrote on 10/08/08 at 11:01:48:
Well, there is certainly a famous game Korchnoi-Kasparov from, I think, the Lucerne Olympiad in 1982.  It was one of the games that turned me on to playing the Modern Benoni.


yea, that game was exciting.  however i find it ironic that Kasparov no longer plays it, then he demolished every benoni player with the flick knife and scared everyone for a while from playing it, for a while anyway.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #33 - 10/22/08 at 22:45:10
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Ptero wrote on 06/14/08 at 19:57:36:
Well, I got this DVD, as I thought I might find some inspiration in it, and also because I like Martin’s style of presenting material. I can say that Bonsai’s description matches this DVD exactly. Martin recommends the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.h3 a6 9. a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 Nh5!? (an interesting and playable line that scores about 80% (!) for black in my database, though I feel white should be +/= after 11.Bg5) against the MML, and the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 Qh4 10.g3 Qd8 against the Taimanov. There is not all that much to support these recommendations, about one game devoted for each, without going into too much detail. All and all this is a reasonable product, but do acknowledge that the coverage is very patchy.  


"Curse you red baron." as snoopy would say. I spent hours working on the system given against the MML and now it gets revealed on a DVD. It have scored very well with it. Now the white players are going to learn how to play against the variation. 

As far as the Taimanov is concerned the piece blunder variation is better than its reputation. I have improvements which I am not about to reveal. Sufficient that after the fashionable Kd2 line black can reach really messy positions where
steady positional players will feel totally confused but berserkers will really like the positions.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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LeeRoth
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #32 - 10/10/08 at 23:57:58
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Cyronix -- I usually avoid the Benoni if I know that my opponent plays the Taimanov.  When I do meet it, I usually play Na6-c7.  But these positions can get dicey for Black, especially after f5.  So lately, I've been experimenting with Qh4+ a la Watson.  LeeRoth
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #31 - 10/10/08 at 12:46:08
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I do not like Qh4+ played by Gelfand, although it provokes g3,
I do not think this weakening of the pawn structure is really in black's favor in the benoni, and is more or less a waste of tempo, when the queen just returns to d8.

The manoevuer with Na6 - c7 looks most natural to me,
helping to prepare b5 (or after the standard ... a6 a5 b5 axb maybe jump to b5 at some time), also the knight on c7 protects the e6 square.

The manoeuver Na6-b4 by Topalov looks more aggressive on first sight, but I am not sure what it really does there, especially when it gets attacked by Bd2 some time, but I am undecided on that move.

So the plan Na6-c7, a6, b5 looks good to me.

What's your choice/opinion btw? Smiley

LeeRoth wrote on 10/09/08 at 22:36:08:
Quote:
I give you some games:

Flick Knife:

Lalic - Kotsur 1997
Bareev - Topalov 2002
Bareev - Gelfand 2005


Thanks, but these three games feature three different black systems.  Which one do you prefer?

  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #30 - 10/09/08 at 22:36:08
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Quote:
I give you some games:

Flick Knife:

Lalic - Kotsur 1997
Bareev - Topalov 2002
Bareev - Gelfand 2005


Thanks, but these three games feature three different black systems.  Which one do you prefer?
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #29 - 10/08/08 at 11:01:48
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Well, there is certainly a famous game Korchnoi-Kasparov from, I think, the Lucerne Olympiad in 1982.  It was one of the games that turned me on to playing the Modern Benoni.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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MNb
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #28 - 10/08/08 at 00:54:55
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Quote:
Van Wely - Timman 2002


Isn't this the one in which Timman surprised Van Wely with an attacking idea practiced by Kasparov against Kortchnoi about 20 years before? I remember Timman saying that he considered Black's play unsound, but was sure that Van Wely was too young to know Kasparov's game well.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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cyronix
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #27 - 10/07/08 at 18:10:46
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I give you some games:

Flick Knife:

Lalic - Kotsur 1997
Bareev - Topalov 2002
Bareev - Gelfand 2005

Modern Mainline:

Georgiev - Gashimov 2007
Beliavsky - Petkevich 2004
Kurtsidze - Najer 2001

Fianchetto:

Van Wely - Timman 2002
Avrukh - Kamsky 2007
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #26 - 10/07/08 at 02:50:39
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I suppose the Flick-Knife and the Modern Main Line are the main challenges to the Benoni these days.  So, if you don't mind telling, what are you playing against those two lines?
  
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cyronix
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #25 - 10/06/08 at 18:54:23
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well, the benoni is very well playable for me,
but I hate the symmetrical english (as black, as white I love it Smiley)
  
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cyronix
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #24 - 10/05/08 at 18:24:43
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books that cover some variations against the anti benoni:

symmetrical english
and d4 deviations

I've also decided to play the benoni again btw, my absolute mainweapon now, before I played the QGD, the QGD is a very correct opening,
you can equalise very well in it, but not much more.
I think the benoni is perfectly playable, I don't know why everyone fears the flick-knife so much, the positions in modern mainline and fianchetto are equally dangerous in my opinion, and still you can very well play for a win!!! And I like these benoni positions very much anyway! The benoni must be playable at any level!
I see Ivanchuk, Topalov, Alekseev still using it on top level, from time to time, there is no refutation!
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #23 - 06/25/08 at 22:41:53
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Does Martin Cover the Anti-Benoni-lines ?
Does anyone know a source where the antibenoni lines are covered?
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #22 - 06/25/08 at 18:22:06
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I also have the modern benoni DVD my mr martin

It's great for introductory purposes.. Too patchy to be a standalone source for playing the thing with black though..

I'd give a 7 out of 10 while for comparing purposes, I'd give an 8 to the Czech Benoni DVD and a 9 to the Queen's Pawn Openings from Black's point of view (which would be a 10 if the Relange vs Svetuskin game was missing)

  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #21 - 06/23/08 at 02:09:56
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Completely the opposite.  It is you who are saying that if White wants a boring game he can avoid the Benoni by not playing d5.  So what?  White can play any number of boring openings and avoid lots of Black defenses; its his perogative and not much Black can do about it.  My only point is that once we actually get to a Benoni, then Black is going to have chances to mix things up.  Unlike the French, there is no exchange variation of the Benoni and, by definition, if you get a Benoni on the board you're going to have an asymmetrical pawn structure.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #20 - 06/23/08 at 01:58:13
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LeeRoth wrote on 06/23/08 at 01:22:15:
Black can, if he so desires, play 2..e6 instead and wait for c4 before playing ..c5.

Sure. But Black still may meet some tedious lines.
Your logic resembles "the Classical French contains no boring lines, because 3.exd5 is not a Classical French." And the French Exchange is not necessarily boring either. You seemed to argue that the Benoni is a fullproof remedy to avoid boring positions. That is not the case.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #19 - 06/23/08 at 01:22:15
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MNb wrote on 06/16/08 at 02:17:59:
LeeRoth wrote on 06/15/08 at 22:40:27:
there are no exchange variations in the Benoni and no boring lines. 

Play can become rather boring if White answers x...c5 with y.c3.


I was talking about the Modern Benoni.  But not sure I follow in any event.  If you're talking about something like 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3, then that is not a Benoni (unless White is later going to play d5), it is not necessarily boring, and Black can, if he so desires, play 2..e6 instead and wait for c4 before playing ..c5.       


  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #18 - 06/19/08 at 02:46:54
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.h3 a6 9. a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 and one advantage of Nh5!? immediately is revealed after 11.Bg5 Bf6 12.Be3 Ne5 13.Nxe5 (iso 13.Be2) Bxe5 14.Qd2 (14.0-0 Nf4) 0-0 15.0-0 and White has not been able to play f2-f4 yet. In a 1985 game 15...Re8 was played and Black went on to win.
I would think that a DVD is an excellent medium to point out the differences between the two lines (excluding or including castling). If Martin failed to do so he has missed a golden opportunity imo. I mean, the only thing he has to do is to shift two kings and two rooks!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #17 - 06/17/08 at 06:28:27
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I just got this.

Had a brief look at a couple of the videos.

Somewhat surprisingly, Martin has a fairly high opinion of the Fianchetto line against the Benoni. He thinks it's not without venom. I have always felt the same way (and so does, I might add, our own V.Mikhalevski). White can therefore play the Catalan with the move order 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 without fearing too much 3...c5.

Not many people share the same opinion it seems.

  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #16 - 06/16/08 at 02:17:59
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LeeRoth wrote on 06/15/08 at 22:40:27:
there are no exchange variations in the Benoni and no boring lines. 

Play can become rather boring if White answers x...c5 with y.c3.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #15 - 06/15/08 at 23:23:43
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thats RIGHT!  even the BDG is sound at club level   Wink  the only problem i have with the benoni is white can avoid it, however usually that allows black the initiative.  i guess i should get the dvd and Watson's book.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #14 - 06/15/08 at 22:40:27
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You worry too much.  Smiley  At amateur levels, the Benoni is perfectly playable.  Whatever the theoretical verdicts, Black usually manages to get enough activity to make a game of it.  Plus, its a good opening to have in your arsenal when you really need to win.  As many have pointed out, there are no exchange variations in the Benoni and no boring lines.  Check out Watson for repertoire suggestions and, even more importantly, repeated illustrations of the tactical resources Black has at his disposal.        
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #13 - 06/15/08 at 18:52:42
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i have Kinsman's benoni book, and it covered all the lines, however it did not give much hope on the modern main line and the flick knife.  i will have a look at the other books.  maybe the benoni will rise again.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #12 - 06/15/08 at 17:30:37
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wcywing wrote on 06/15/08 at 17:20:58:
so i guess it is safe to say, it is a good intro to the benoni, but you will need more study material?  however most benoni books does not inspire much hope.  maybe the books and dvd balance each other out.  maybe i should just stick with the king's indian.   Roll Eyes 

Hearing about the covered lines one gets the impression that it's the video introduction to John Watson's "Guide to the Moden Benoni", which really is a good book. Aside from Watson there's at least two other recent books I would consider: I've never looked at Vegh's Modern Benoni (Starting Out), but I liked the King's Indian 4-pawns attack book he co-authored. And then there's the Modern Benoni Revealed by Palliser, who is a good and dilligent author, so that's another option.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #11 - 06/15/08 at 17:20:58
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so i guess it is safe to say, it is a good intro to the benoni, but you will need more study material?  however most benoni books does not inspire much hope.  maybe the books and dvd balance each other out.  maybe i should just stick with the king's indian.   Roll Eyes
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #10 - 06/15/08 at 11:19:32
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Ptero wrote on 06/14/08 at 22:05:54:
Your point concerning 11.Bg5 is valid and is not addressed in the DVD. As I said in my earlier post - I think 11.Bg5 is the way for white to go.

This convinces me that Martin not always looks for the virtual opponent's best reply when recommending an opening. The first time I noticed this was 20 years ago in a booklet on the Morra Gambit.
Lee Roth's remark rises the question if the normal 10...0-0 11.0-0 Nh5 is not more precise after all. When I feel like I will sift this matter out; at the moment I feel that a lot depends on the strength of 16...f5.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #9 - 06/14/08 at 22:09:26
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David Flude had proposed this idea in an earlier thread.  I remain skeptical.  For example:

11.Bg5 Bf6 12.Bh6 Ne5 13.Be2 Nxf3 14.Bxf3 Bg5 15.Bxg5 Qxg5 16.Bxh5 gxh5 17.Qf3 Rg8 18.0-0 Bd7 and now 19.Rfb1! with the idea of b4.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #8 - 06/14/08 at 22:05:54
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MNb wrote on 06/14/08 at 21:41:39:
Ptero wrote on 06/14/08 at 19:57:36:
Martin recommends the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.h3 a6 9. a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 Nh5!? (an interesting and playable line that scores about 80% (!) for black in my database, though I feel white should be +/= after 11.Bg5) against the MML.

The important question is: can Black benefit from postponing castling? Say 11.Bg5 Bf6 12.Be3 Ne5 13.Be2 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Ng7 15.0-0 and now what? If Black just castles too play will transpose to another line which certainly does not score 80% for him. But can Black play 15...f5 at once? Any thought, as I haven't looked in detail at this?


The idea behind postponing castling is that Black can employ his rook on the g-file after 13.Be2 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Qh4 15.Bxh5 gxh5, for example 16.Qd3 Rg8! with good counterplay (Dziuba-Wojtaszek 2005).
Your point concerning 11.Bg5 is valid and is not addressed in the DVD. As I said in my earlier post - I think 11.Bg5 is the way for white to go.  
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #7 - 06/14/08 at 21:41:39
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Ptero wrote on 06/14/08 at 19:57:36:
Martin recommends the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.h3 a6 9. a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 Nh5!? (an interesting and playable line that scores about 80% (!) for black in my database, though I feel white should be +/= after 11.Bg5) against the MML.

The important question is: can Black benefit from postponing castling? Say 11.Bg5 Bf6 12.Be3 Ne5 13.Be2 Nxf3+ 14.Bxf3 Ng7 15.0-0 and now what? If Black just castles too play will transpose to another line which certainly does not score 80% for him. But can Black play 15...f5 at once? Any thought, as I haven't looked in detail at this?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #6 - 06/14/08 at 19:57:36
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Well, I got this DVD, as I thought I might find some inspiration in it, and also because I like Martin’s style of presenting material. I can say that Bonsai’s description matches this DVD exactly. Martin recommends the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.h3 a6 9. a4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 Nh5!? (an interesting and playable line that scores about 80% (!) for black in my database, though I feel white should be +/= after 11.Bg5) against the MML, and the line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 Qh4 10.g3 Qd8 against the Taimanov. There is not all that much to support these recommendations, about one game devoted for each, without going into too much detail. All and all this is a reasonable product, but do acknowledge that the coverage is very patchy.  
  
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Bonsai
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #5 - 06/13/08 at 21:36:50
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fblo wrote on 06/13/08 at 21:02:27:
It is amazing that you all feel free to comment on a product none of you appear to have seen. I call that stupid.

I didn't see anyone commenting on the product, only myself speculating about it based on what I've seen from other Martin chessbase DVDs.
We have plenty of evidence (that I have seen myself) to go on to judge what the product is most likely like.

Oh, some more speculation: looking at my database, I did find 4 games by Martin in the Modern Benoni (1982, 1983, 1987, 1987, 1994 and 1998), well, at least he has even played it himself (and presumably more often in some weekend tournaments that didn't make it into the databases).
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #4 - 06/13/08 at 21:02:27
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It is amazing that you all feel free to comment on a product none of you appear to have seen. I call that stupid.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #3 - 06/13/08 at 16:43:51
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i was afraid of that; i just wonder if he has anything good on the modern main line and the flick knife, this is what the benoni have problems.  thank you for your comments, yea Bob Long thinks everything is great, maybe he is paid by chess base?  however he was right about most benoni books, they are not very inspiring.
  
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Bonsai
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #2 - 06/13/08 at 07:19:12
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Well, I suspect it's a nice little introductory video. Martin is generally a good presenter, sells the opening he shows quite well and occasionally even has some theoretical insights (some of the move orders/transpositions discussed in the Czech Benoni DVD really are theoretically very challenging for white). However on a whole he usually will not present in a particularly theoretical way and not necessarily address all move orders and all important variations. He usually also does not always assess positions entirely objectively (or at all), but rahter concentrates on motivating people to be willing to play the advocated side of the position. Nevertheless for the right audience what he does is quite suitable and even though he is currently producing *a lot* of DVDs in a row, I can see that an introductory product that explains the basics of an opening and introduces people to most variations doesn't really need so much research.
  
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Re: ABC of the Benoni DVD
Reply #1 - 06/13/08 at 03:38:57
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I wouldn't trust anything Bob Long wrote in a review. He raves about absolutely everything he reviews. I quit taking them seriously long ago when I realized he never says anything bad about anything.  I'm convinced he just wants to push as much stuff through his store as possible.
  
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ABC of the Benoni DVD
06/13/08 at 01:57:43
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IM Andrew has a new chess base dvd, ABC's of the Modern Benoni.  according to the review by Bob Long it is very good.  has anyone else seen this DVD.  My only concern is about the coverage of two lines that has always given the Benoni problems, the flick-knife and the new Modern Mainline.  i don't want specific lines, but i want to know if it has a real plan against these systems.

Bob Long was right about the Benoni books; black gets crushed and does not offer any solutions, not a good way to promote a book.  i like to see the Tal game and Wojtaszek. 

any comments will be appreciated.
  
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