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Normal Topic 1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players (Read 2937 times)
Willempie
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Re: 1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players
Reply #4 - 06/16/08 at 21:42:04
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Iirc beating unusual openings deals with 3..Bb4 in one of its 3 options vs 1.Nf3. Havent got the book handy atm but I will check it out.
  

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exigentsky
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Re: 1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players
Reply #3 - 06/16/08 at 21:04:35
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hicetnunc wrote on 06/14/08 at 10:21:36:
But if you play Ben-Oni vs. the catalan (I guess 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5), you must probably be ready to face the English, as white can go 4.Nf3 instead of 4.d5, no ?

So 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5 looks sensible to me, as it would probably transpose.

As for 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, if you don't want to play 3...d5, I'm afraid you have to choose between 3...c5 and 3...Bb4 for better or worse...


You're right that after 3. g3 c5, Nf3 transposes to the English. However, Black  has restricted White's options. It is much like playing the Benoni against 3. g3 - White is not forced to play the fianchetto variation. It seems to me that both of these choices are inferior to the main lines of the English and Benoni.

On the other hand, after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5, White has all the options open and can transpose into the stronger main lines of the Symmetrical English (usually to a hedgehog structure). No concessions have been made. And in this case, it would mean that I might as well play c5 against c4. However, this is not my preferred choice. I'm trying to stay in my repertoire and not give White a chance to move order me into something inferior or something that I don't usually play.

This is my problem.
  
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Bonsai
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Re: 1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players
Reply #2 - 06/14/08 at 11:25:37
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hicetnunc wrote on 06/14/08 at 10:21:36:
As for 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, if you don't want to play 3...d5, I'm afraid you have to choose between 3...c5 and 3...Bb4 for better or worse...

To me 3...Bb4 4.Qc2 c5 or similar is the "just" punishement white has to suffer for not playing d4 (not that I'm claiming white did anything wrong, it's just that it seems obvious that this is one of the things black gets in return for what white gets).
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: 1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players
Reply #1 - 06/14/08 at 10:21:36
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But if you play Ben-Oni vs. the catalan (I guess 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5), you must probably be ready to face the English, as white can go 4.Nf3 instead of 4.d5, no ?

So 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 c5 looks sensible to me, as it would probably transpose.

As for 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, if you don't want to play 3...d5, I'm afraid you have to choose between 3...c5 and 3...Bb4 for better or worse...
  

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exigentsky
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1. Nf3 2. c4 e6 for the NID/QID players
06/14/08 at 07:19:18
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I'm finding the move order with 1. Nf3 quite annoying. If 3. Nc3, I'm uncertain if Bb4 is as effective as when d4 is played and going into a normal d4 opening with d5 would mean that White has forced me into a mainline opening I do not play against d4. It's true that I could transpose to a symmetrical English, but then this would be a concession too since my normal response to the English is e5. If 3. g3, I can no longer play the Benoni - my normal response to the Catalan. Either way, I'm being tricked out of my normal lines and White seems to get the better of it. So, what do you guys see as the solution(s)? What do you do against 1. Nf3 and perhaps 1. c4?

BTW: This is an occasion where I envy the KID or Slav players who have a set structure and thus don't really need to worry much about move orders.
  
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