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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition (Read 56440 times)
Markovich
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #35 - 07/05/08 at 02:36:28
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Bibs wrote on 07/05/08 at 01:49:58:
From the start Anonymous' posts here have been inappropriate. The kind of peculiar, unsocial, childish behaviour that the anonymity of the internet affords, alas. Rushes home from school, straight onto chesspub. Yay!

An odd kind of sport for an individual with a slightly warped sense of humour to engage in, but sadly such occurs from time to time in online forums.

Agree with SorenJensen. Dont take seriously. Ignore. Ban?


I suspect that Anonymous is a young player.  We should not be so hard on him.  He's mixed up; he doesn't know what to expect from a good chess book.  These are signs of youth; or ignorance; both of which are much to be forgiven.  Ignorance is no sin -- only stubborn ignorance.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Bibs
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #34 - 07/05/08 at 01:49:58
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From the start Anonymous' posts here have been inappropriate. The kind of peculiar, unsocial, childish behaviour that the anonymity of the internet affords, alas. Rushes home from school, straight onto chesspub. Yay!

An odd kind of sport for an individual with a slightly warped sense of humour to engage in, but sadly such occurs from time to time in online forums.

Agree with SorenJensen. Dont take seriously. Ignore. Ban?
  
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rossia
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #33 - 07/04/08 at 23:41:00
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@Anonymous: take a hike with your constant annoying nonsense
  
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Antillian
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #32 - 07/04/08 at 19:25:22
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So Marin is too lazy that he can't even come to the site himself and has to have someone give him the analysis? If he had come to the site, he would have been able to see other important lines that needed updating!



Annoymous, I think you should change your name to Annoying Most
  

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Zaphod Beeblebrox
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #31 - 07/04/08 at 18:38:54
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Aagaard, why didn't Marin use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc? Most other authors use these most important sources. If Marin had used these sources in the first place, he probably wouldn't have had to come out with a second edition! Aagaard, why do you refuse to answer this question???!!!

Aagaard, the move in the King's Gambit Declined with 10 Qd2 is a random, normal, and rare move, exactly as the move in the Ponziani is. Why then was this move put in the book and not the Ponziani move? The answer is that Marin didn't use all available sources!  

Also Aagaard, This line of the Ponziani isn't the only line that Marin didn't address. In the update to A Spanish Repertoire for Black, why doesn't Marin adress this line of the Worrall Attack, 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7 12 d5 Bd7 13 b3 Ne8 14.Nbd2 g6 15.Nf1 Ng7 16.Bh6 f6 now Marin only gives 17 h3 but gives Andrew Greet in his book Play the Ruy Lopez recommends 17 a4 or 17 N3d2? This is not the only example of lines that Marin doesn't address in his second edition!


whiny whiny whiny
  
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SorenJensen
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Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #30 - 07/04/08 at 18:32:47
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Anonymous reaction really is most peculiar.

He/she gets good advise on how he/she can benefit from the situation by doing some independent thinking (Mnb's suggestions for example) and even gets feedback from the publishers but to little avail - the individual remains irritated that not every move under the sun was covered.

At this stage I'm beginning to wonder if anonymous posts maybe should not be taken seriously but are meant as a parody of an increasingly common mindset
  
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wcywing
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #29 - 07/04/08 at 17:50:21
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i have never seen a perfect book, however if i wrote a chess book it will be nowhere as near as good as Marin's or anyone else, it would be best used as a scrapbook!   Grin  maybe i should write a book on the ponziani, i never thought it was such controversial opening, this topic seems to be almost as heated as a bdg discussion.   Undecided
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #28 - 07/04/08 at 17:26:20
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our expectations are a bit too high, also I think that Marin may have gotten the 10.Qd2 analysis from Kosten via Agard and not by visiting this site directly.

Toppy Smiley
[/quote]


So Marin is too lazy that he can't even come to the site himself and has to have someone give him the analysis? If he had come to the site, he would have been able to see other important lines that needed updating!
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #27 - 07/04/08 at 17:22:52
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Aagaard, why didn't Marin use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc? Most other authors use these most important sources. If Marin had used these sources in the first place, he probably wouldn't have had to come out with a second edition! Aagaard, why do you refuse to answer this question???!!!

Aagaard, the move in the King's Gambit Declined with 10 Qd2 is a random, normal, and rare move, exactly as the move in the Ponziani is. Why then was this move put in the book and not the Ponziani move? The answer is that Marin didn't use all available sources!  

Also Aagaard, This line of the Ponziani isn't the only line that Marin didn't address. In the update to A Spanish Repertoire for Black, why doesn't Marin adress this line of the Worrall Attack, 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7 12 d5 Bd7 13 b3 Ne8 14.Nbd2 g6 15.Nf1 Ng7 16.Bh6 f6 now Marin only gives 17 h3 but gives Andrew Greet in his book Play the Ruy Lopez recommends 17 a4 or 17 N3d2? This is not the only example of lines that Marin doesn't address in his second edition!
  
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micawber
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #26 - 07/04/08 at 13:33:15
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If anyone cares to look up the previous threads, they can see i've been among those who critisized the first edition.
But I also would like to point out that , to my knowledge no chesspublisher has dealt more generous with critisism or has dealt more handsome with it's customers than Quality Chess.
By the way, this is precisely why I decided to buy the 2nd edition as well as the 1st (even though the most relevant updates where freely available).
I also would like to state, that I find mr. Aagaard's reply fully satisfactory, and I am allready looking forward to some of their new publications.
  
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Jacob Aagaard
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #25 - 07/04/08 at 10:45:59
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Anonymeous, I have a few points:

1) Kosten did not write that it was the refutation, but that he in a freestyle game was horrified that the move was not in the book.

2) No, our books do not exist as a complete answer to ChessPublishing or other sources - I have explained why once already.

3) I analysed the game to show in just how many ways Black was fine. You cannot turn that on its head line you are doing here.

4) You will always find moves not mentioned in books, that have been mentioned elsewhere. This does not in itself make them important. The quality of the moves do. Tony comes with a Fritz after a few seconds recommendation against the move 9...Rh5 in one place. Surely we can all find improvements against such moves, but does that make them important?

For those who have the first edition of BTOG or the Spanish Repertoire book, please not that you can find updates on our site www.qualitychessbooks.com for these two books.

I have nothing further to add to this. I don't think that the move should have been mentioned. It could have been, but it was not necessary. I don't mind that others disagree, but it is clearly not a scandal  Smiley
  
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MNb
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #24 - 07/04/08 at 00:17:27
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/03/08 at 17:22:33:
To prove our case, I have decided to offer a closer look. This does not mean that I will do so everytime someone is concerned, but I felt like it.

This is very sensible as Anonymous' reaction proves. Instead of being grateful that a GM does the work for him he keeps on complaining. Instead he should complain that GM Aagaard has robbed him from an opportunity to improve his analytical skills.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #23 - 07/03/08 at 23:06:38
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this might be a stupid question, but who plays the ponzani??!!  Shocked

of course if Kasparov uses it to win a match everyone will play it.  however i doubt it.  it is not the critical, i have never faced it.  the center game is more critical, however thats not saying very much.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #22 - 07/03/08 at 21:40:48
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If Tony Kosten analyzed 8 Nd2 and thought it refuted that line of the Ponziani for Black, it should have been dealt with by Marin in his second edition even if it isn't that good and is just a normal or random move. Aagaard, you analyzing it here makes it important enough for Marin to include in the book.

Also, Aagaard, why didn't Marin use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc? Most other authors use these most important sources. If Marin had used these sources in the first place, he probably wouldn't have had to come out with a second edition!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #21 - 07/03/08 at 19:28:49
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Markovich wrote on 07/03/08 at 18:50:15:
Thank you for that most generous exposition.  However I very much fear that Anonymous will still find what he considers to be grave defects in Marin's work.  It can't be helped, given the imperfection of Man and the high degree of perfection demanded by Anonymous.  

I really don't know if anyone here besides Anonymous feels this way.  I certainly don't, and I have "only" the first edtion of Marin's two-volume work, which I consider to be quite good.


I second the spirit and sentiment.  I have both editions of the Open Games book and the Spanish repertoire.  I rank them among the most instructive books in recent years.  I have since moved away from Marin's repertoire to some extent (a matter of taste more than the objective merits of Marin's recommendations, which I think are very good), but have taken with me a wealth of information and experience from these books...
  

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