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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition (Read 57300 times)
Jacob Aagaard
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #200 - 08/06/08 at 16:17:17
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Decided then.

(Probably there will be no third edition. At least none is planned for the next 3 years.)
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #199 - 08/06/08 at 16:06:23
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I agree that we should end his discussion.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #198 - 08/06/08 at 13:21:51
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Also, GM Tony Kosten, we haven't got your opinion yet on if Marin should have covered 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani in the second edition of Beating the Open Games.

I know from personal experience that you can't cover every single move in a chess book, and as Nd2 is the least popular of the 6 moves played here I suppose it is normal that he left it out.
My personal opinion is that this line is not Black's best, by any means, but as Marin clearly likes it it is only natural that he should recommend it. Maybe we can stop this discussion till the 3rd Edition comes out, and simply all agree to disagree?
  
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Jacob Aagaard
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #197 - 08/06/08 at 07:36:54
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It is very likely that 3...d5 is the best move, but to say that it refutes the Ponziani is a bit over the top. Surely it takes little understanding of chess to determine that 3.c3 cannot be so bad that White is already worse.

Having said this, it is natural to play 3...d5, as White no longer has Nb1-c3 and Black will thus take some space in the centre.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #196 - 08/05/08 at 20:43:19
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Larry Kaufman's The Chess Advantage in Black and White covers the Ponziani with 3...d5 really well. He is the one that says that 3...d5 should come close to refuting the Ponziani. This is where I learned that 3...d5 may refute the Ponziani.

Also, GM Tony Kosten, we haven't got your opinion yet on if Marin should have covered 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani in the second edition of Beating the Open Games.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #195 - 08/05/08 at 17:33:14
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I believe that 3...d5 refutes or comes very close to refuting the Ponziani.

I would be very interested in seeing your analysis, as I have always had the feeling that 3...d5 should be the best move ... even if I have never played it! Wink Maybe you can start a new thread?
  
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Strategy_Rules
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #194 - 08/05/08 at 13:55:01
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I don't think any of this discussion of the Ponziani with 3...Nf6 is really that important because I believe that 3...d5 refutes or comes very close to refuting the Ponziani.


What do you mean with refute here ? Clear advantage for black ?  Shocked

Anyway, I must admit that I also wondered about the status of 3...d5 or at least what experts of this system recommend for white here.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #193 - 08/03/08 at 20:16:42
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I don't think any of this discussion of the Ponziani with 3...Nf6 is really that important because I believe that 3...d5 refutes or comes very close to refuting the Ponziani.
  
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OldGrizzly
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #192 - 08/01/08 at 07:24:37
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TUNO NEGRO wrote on 07/31/08 at 11:50:15:
What does recommend Marin's book vs the Worrall?

Thanks  Smiley


Don't worry about what Bibs says. All he does here on the forum is criticize other people's posts and tell people what they should and shouldn't say. It's ok to ask questions like this. Against the main line of the Worral, Marin recommends 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7.  

Bibs, there are people who aren't as rich as you and can't afford to buy a lot of chess books.

That doesn't mean that you can lay down the law.
  
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DD-OK
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #191 - 07/31/08 at 17:30:53
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Me and Anonymous2 are not the same person. I have no idea who he is.


Even more proof the Anonymous and Aagard are the same guys.  Please, it is so transparent.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #190 - 07/31/08 at 15:42:47
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TUNO NEGRO wrote on 07/31/08 at 11:50:15:
What does recommend Marin's book vs the Worrall?

Thanks  Smiley


Don't worry about what Bibs says. All he does here on the forum is criticize other people's posts and tell people what they should and shouldn't say. It's ok to ask questions like this. Against the main line of the Worral, Marin recommends 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7. 

Bibs, there are people who aren't as rich as you and can't afford to buy a lot of chess books.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #189 - 07/31/08 at 15:37:14
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DD-OK wrote on 07/31/08 at 13:54:20:
Quote:
Now on to a different topic. Aagaard, can you tell us what forthcoming opening books Quality Chess has planned?



See, I TOLD YOU THE TWO MR A.'S ARE ONE AND THE SAME!!!


Me and Anonymous2 are not the same person. I have no idea who he is.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #188 - 07/31/08 at 13:54:20
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Now on to a different topic. Aagaard, can you tell us what forthcoming opening books Quality Chess has planned?



See, I TOLD YOU THE TWO MR A.'S ARE ONE AND THE SAME!!!
  
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Bibs
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #187 - 07/31/08 at 11:56:49
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Not to be unhelpful or curmudgeonly, but I would warn against such questions and detailed answers in response - ethically and in terms of copyright.

You may like to buy the book and have a look. Or peruse at a bookstall.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #186 - 07/31/08 at 11:50:15
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What does recommend Marin's book vs the Worrall?

Thanks  Smiley
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #185 - 07/31/08 at 06:06:12
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I have had a change of heart. I will not be posting 64 things wrong with Marin's books. Marin's books are excellent. I just think the first editions and the updates could have been a little bit better if Marin had used certain sources that he didn't use. I still don't agree with some of Aagaard's post though because I think he made a lot of pathetic excuses. Quality Chess is also a good chess book publisher and I might buy more chess books from them. I just think they should have got Marin to use more sources. I will not be commenting on this subject again.

Now on to a different topic. Aagaard, can you tell us what forthcoming opening books Quality Chess has planned?



Well done GM Tony Kosten!
  

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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #184 - 07/31/08 at 05:02:22
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I have had a change of heart. I will not be posting 64 things wrong with Marin's books. Marin's books are excellent. I just think the first editions and the updates could have been a little bit better if Marin had used certain sources that he didn't use. I still don't agree with some of Aagaard's post though because I think he made a lot of pathetic excuses. Quality Chess is also a good chess book publisher and I might buy more chess books from them. I just think they should have got Marin to use more sources. I will not be commenting on this subject again.

Now on to a different topic. Aagaard, can you tell us what forthcoming opening books Quality Chess has planned?



Huh How did I know this was coming?  Angry
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #183 - 07/31/08 at 01:43:20
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I have had a change of heart. I will not be posting 64 things wrong with Marin's books. Marin's books are excellent. I just think the first editions and the updates could have been a little bit better if Marin had used certain sources that he didn't use. I still don't agree with some of Aagaard's post though because I think he made a lot of pathetic excuses. Quality Chess is also a good chess book publisher and I might buy more chess books from them. I just think they should have got Marin to use more sources. I will not be commenting on this subject again.

Now on to a different topic. Aagaard, can you tell us what forthcoming opening books Quality Chess has planned?

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #182 - 07/31/08 at 00:03:53
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I recommend that people don't buy any more qualitychess products


I will pass on this recommendation.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #181 - 07/30/08 at 22:17:39
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 07/30/08 at 04:35:15:
Quote:
I don't know if I could come up with the 64 worst omissions of Marin but I could probably find 64 things wrong with the book. Some of those would be omissions, some would be analysis that is incorrect, etc. Tell me if you want me to do this.


We'd love it.


Ok, I will share with you in the near future 64 things that are wrong with Marin's Beating the Open Games, A Spahish Repertoire for Black, and the updates to these two books.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #180 - 07/30/08 at 22:11:24
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Anonymous2 wrote on 07/30/08 at 05:31:15:
Here are a list of people who disagree with you:

IM Jeremy Silman: http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/Beating_the_Open_Games.html

GM Jacob Aagaard et al at Quality Chess: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/products.aspx?category_ID=1

GM Glenn Flear in a [url]NIC Yearbook[/url].

Steve Giddins in the British Chess Magazine [url](You can find the link yourself this time)[/url]

Carsten Hansen at Chesscafe.com.

The staff at Amazon.com, because they are selling the book.

Caissa-Chess.com: http://www.caissa-chess.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=319

http://www.chessware.de/catalog/mihail-marinbrbeating-open-games-p-909.html

GM Mihail Marin himself: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/documents/Update%20to%20Beating%20the%20Open%20...

IM John Cox (see this thread)

ChessVibes: http://www.chessvibes.com/lang_nladvertentielang_nllang_enadvertisementlang_en/t...

IM James Vigus: http://www.bcmchess.co.uk/reviews/bcmrev0806.html

IM David Vigorito (see this thread)

Even the completely unreliable Wikipedia disagrees with you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail_Marin

Nobody agrees with you, Anonymous. Even Wikipedia sees that you are incorrect - now that is saying something.



Well, the book Chess Openings for White Explained got a lot of good reviews and it was John Watson that came out and went against the other reviewers and showed that it is a very poor book. This is exactly what I am doing with Marin's books. I am not just skimming thru the book and giving it a good review like most reviewers probably did. I am taking a real in-depth look at the recommended lines and discovering holes just like Watson did in Chess Openings for White Explained.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #179 - 07/30/08 at 18:06:24
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[quote]And this is also the reason I find it hard to follow Marvkovich' recommendation. I want Aagaard, Cox, Vigus, Vigorito and all others to know how much I appreciate their contributions on this forum.[/quote]

That's appreciated, MNb, and is surely reciprocated, but even so I think Markovich is completely right. I can see the reason for making it clear to Jacob Aagaard (and even to the authors who are regulars on here, though I think they know the score) that Anonymous doesn't have support, but this can be done with a one-off message. The only way to persuade Anonymous to produce posts focusing on chess instead of obsessional negative carping is to refuse to rise to his childish baits.
  
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MNb
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #178 - 07/30/08 at 16:27:51
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fluffy wrote on 07/30/08 at 13:24:26:
Quote:
Aagaard, this is a very serious matter and I don't appreciate you trying to make it into a joke.

I recommend that people don't buy any more qualitychess products and I recommend that people don't write any more books for them!


I would think that this post would be considered very much against the spirit of the forum. it is one thing to criticize, it is another to try to harm someone's livlihood.


Don't say I haven't warned you.

MNb wrote on 07/27/08 at 22:31:28:
Quote:
I was wondering if David Vigorito could tell us more about this forthcoming book?

If David Vigorito has read the attempts of GM Aagaard the answer is no.


And this is also the reason I find it hard to follow Markovich' recommendation. I want Aagaard, Cox, Vigus, Vigorito and all others to know how much I appreciate their contributions on this forum.
« Last Edit: 07/31/08 at 00:19:20 by MNb »  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #177 - 07/30/08 at 15:13:33
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Everbody, stop fuming and just ignore this idiot.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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rossia
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #176 - 07/30/08 at 14:47:18
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What for God sake is moderator/administrator doing???  Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry

Either will you ban members with psychiatric diagnose, or shall we all be brain-tortured???  Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
  
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fluffy
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #175 - 07/30/08 at 13:24:26
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Quote:
Aagaard, this is a very serious matter and I don't appreciate you trying to make it into a joke.

I recommend that people don't buy any more qualitychess products and I recommend that people don't write any more books for them!


I would think that this post would be considered very much against the spirit of the forum. it is one thing to criticize, it is another to try to harm someone's livlihood.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #174 - 07/30/08 at 11:41:20
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GM Tony Kosten says he doesn't know why you guys are complaining about my posts and doesn't see anything wrong with them.

That's simply not true, I said that I didn't know what the complaints were about because I didn't want to waste my time looking at your posts! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #173 - 07/30/08 at 05:31:15
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Here are a list of people who disagree with you:

IM Jeremy Silman: http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/Beating_the_Open_Games.html

GM Jacob Aagaard et al at Quality Chess: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/products.aspx?category_ID=1

GM Glenn Flear in a [url]NIC Yearbook[/url].

Steve Giddins in the British Chess Magazine [url](You can find the link yourself this time)[/url]

Carsten Hansen at Chesscafe.com.

The staff at Amazon.com, because they are selling the book.

Caissa-Chess.com: http://www.caissa-chess.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=319

http://www.chessware.de/catalog/mihail-marinbrbeating-open-games-p-909.html

GM Mihail Marin himself: http://www.qualitychessbooks.com/documents/Update%20to%20Beating%20the%20Open%20...

IM John Cox (see this thread)

ChessVibes: http://www.chessvibes.com/lang_nladvertentielang_nllang_enadvertisementlang_en/t...

IM James Vigus: http://www.bcmchess.co.uk/reviews/bcmrev0806.html

IM David Vigorito (see this thread)

Even the completely unreliable Wikipedia disagrees with you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihail_Marin

Nobody agrees with you, Anonymous. Even Wikipedia sees that you are incorrect - now that is saying something.
« Last Edit: 07/30/08 at 21:59:33 by Anonymous2 »  

What does author X say about this move? Why doesn't author Y mention that move?
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #172 - 07/30/08 at 05:27:24
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Anonymous2 wrote on 07/30/08 at 05:08:56:
Quote:
I don't know if I could come up with the 64 worst omissions of Marin but I could probably find 64 things wrong with the book. Some of those would be omissions, some would be analysis that is incorrect, etc. Tell me if you want me to do this.


Of course! Of course! I'll even do you a favour and edit your work in its entirety afterwards to make it even more interesting to its readers.

And which company are you publishing the book for? The late "Anonymous Enterprises"? Grin

Dr. Jekill and Mr Hyde  Shocked
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #171 - 07/30/08 at 05:08:56
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Quote:
I don't know if I could come up with the 64 worst omissions of Marin but I could probably find 64 things wrong with the book. Some of those would be omissions, some would be analysis that is incorrect, etc. Tell me if you want me to do this.


Of course! Of course! I'll even do you a favour and edit your work in its entirety afterwards to make it even more interesting to its readers.

And which company are you publishing the book for? The late "Anonymous Enterprises"? Grin
  

What does author X say about this move? Why doesn't author Y mention that move?
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #170 - 07/30/08 at 04:35:15
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Quote:
I don't know if I could come up with the 64 worst omissions of Marin but I could probably find 64 things wrong with the book. Some of those would be omissions, some would be analysis that is incorrect, etc. Tell me if you want me to do this.


We'd love it.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #169 - 07/30/08 at 03:55:01
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I don't know if I could come up with the 64 worst omissions of Marin but I could probably find 64 things wrong with the book. Some of those would be omissions, some would be analysis that is incorrect, etc. Tell me if you want me to do this.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #168 - 07/30/08 at 03:50:53
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Aagaard, you said that Marin didn't use the book Play the Open Games as Black because it was dated and riddled with errors because it wasn't computer checked but then I asked why then did Marin use the book Play the Evan's Gambit which is even more dated and also not computer checked. You obviously didn't understand this question when I wrote this the first time.

You guys are such hypocrits! You guys say my posts are stupid and that they don't help the chesspub forum at all but in reality it is your guys posts which are stupid because all you do is criticize and that doesn't help the chesspub at all!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #167 - 07/29/08 at 22:02:22
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GM Tony Kosten says he doesn't know why you guys are complaining about my posts and doesn't see anything wrong with them.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #166 - 07/28/08 at 18:40:46
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5 0-0 d6 6 c3 Bg4 is at least equal for Black, I think Markovich provided as good an analysis as any over at http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/hard/h990927.htm via the transposition 4 0-0 d6 5 c3 Bg4 6 d4 exd4.

Tim Harding provided an alternative analysis here, via the Scotch Gambit, 4...Bc5 5 c3 d6 6 0-0 (I think White can improve via 6 cxd4 in this move order, which is why Black usually prefers to meet 5 c3 with 5...Nf6) 6...Bg4.  http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz75.pdf
Although the analysis differs slightly, the conclusion is the same.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #165 - 07/28/08 at 17:12:25
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Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote on 07/28/08 at 16:34:04:
I'm too lazy to look it up now, but doesn't the Scotch gambit transpose to the Max Lange? After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 I think Marin suggests Bc5 entering the Italian game, whereafter 5.0-0 there is a choice between d6 and Nf6, the latter giving us the Max Lange. Probably this is the second mover-order to reach the Max Lange, unless Marin recommends d6, which he doesn't. Of course that line is (also?) good for black and probably even a safer way to reach equality than the Max Lange. However, I just wanted to point out that there are two distinct move-orders to take care of, not just one.

Kind regards


Hmm.  Yeah, you may be right.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #164 - 07/28/08 at 16:49:56
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Quote:
I think everyone knows that I am very upset with Aaggards ridiculous posts but I am also very upset with IM John Cox's ridiculous posts!  


I am also sure that you will get upset by IM Vigoretto as soon he cares to answer your question about the Slav. Moreover I am sure you get a kick out of being upset.
Several newbies already have learned about Anonymous; they know what to expect for the future. In this respect this thread is very instructive. Moreover both GM Aagaard and IM Cox have enjoyed strong support. Like DD-OK has pointed out, Quality Chess has had quite some good advertisement for free. Still I second Micawber's proposal. It has been long enough.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #163 - 07/28/08 at 16:34:04
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I'm too lazy to look it up now, but doesn't the Scotch gambit transpose to the Max Lange? After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Bc4 I think Marin suggests Bc5 entering the Italian game, whereafter 5.0-0 there is a choice between d6 and Nf6, the latter giving us the Max Lange. Probably this is the second mover-order to reach the Max Lange, unless Marin recommends d6, which he doesn't. Of course that line is (also?) good for black and probably even a safer way to reach equality than the Max Lange. However, I just wanted to point out that there are two distinct move-orders to take care of, not just one.

Kind regards
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #162 - 07/28/08 at 15:43:42
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Anonymous2 wrote on 07/28/08 at 05:43:53:
Quote:
I think everyone knows that I am too upset with Aaggards sensible posts but I am also very upset with IM John Cox's  posts! Here they are:

He said that the Davies' and Emms' 1...e5 repertoire books do not cover many of the same lines as Marin's. He is right, but I don't want to admit it, so I made up an excuse that all of his recommendations are covered in other books, which I mentioned earlier.

He said that choosing 5...exd4 after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4 is a no-brainer becuase Marin recommends playing this line from other move-orders. He is entirely correct, but I dislike John Cox for writing a book for Quality Chess and therefore seek to argue with him over the least important of issues.

He didn't say "I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used", but I said that he did because I am a liar and I want to pull the wool over other posters' eyes. I can't understand why he would say this because I am so self-centred and don't care about what other people say.



Hope you enjoyed the translation.


It is a minor point perhaps, but actually, Anonymous is correct that Marin recommends that Black enter the Max only from the moveorder where White first castles, then plays d4.  Personally, I consider that a fairly grave defect in his proposed repertoire.  It does not affect the value of these books, however, which is considerable.

The simplest way to deal with Anonymous is to ignore his posts.  That is what I have done, having eventually realized that he is simply too juvenile or boneheaded, I do not know which or care, ever to shut up on these niggling points of his.  He really does not deserve to be paid attention to.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #161 - 07/28/08 at 13:52:20
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It is not possible that both Mr A's (anonymous and aagard) are one and the same, and that the diabolical schemer planned all this, including the game with Nd2, in an obvious attempt to keep the discussion of Marin's book alive and to earn sympathay (and sales) from the readers?

I mean, a GrandMaster has to be pretty good at conceiving and executing complex strategic plans, right?

Anyway, it is a pretty good book.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #160 - 07/28/08 at 08:14:52
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I think you should step in. Anonymous postings in this thread are unnecessary vindictive and abusive. Aagaard has been very patient in his replies. I suggest to cut off this thread at his last reply.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #159 - 07/28/08 at 05:43:53
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Quote:
I think everyone knows that I am too upset with Aaggards sensible posts but I am also very upset with IM John Cox's  posts! Here they are:

He said that the Davies' and Emms' 1...e5 repertoire books do not cover many of the same lines as Marin's. He is right, but I don't want to admit it, so I made up an excuse that all of his recommendations are covered in other books, which I mentioned earlier.

He said that choosing 5...exd4 after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4 is a no-brainer becuase Marin recommends playing this line from other move-orders. He is entirely correct, but I dislike John Cox for writing a book for Quality Chess and therefore seek to argue with him over the least important of issues.

He didn't say "I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used", but I said that he did because I am a liar and I want to pull the wool over other posters' eyes. I can't understand why he would say this because I am so self-centred and don't care about what other people say.



Hope you enjoyed the translation.
  

What does author X say about this move? Why doesn't author Y mention that move?
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #158 - 07/28/08 at 05:30:49
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Perhaps someone could sticky a user poll in the Discussion section entitled "The message board's most asinine posters. Read at your own risk!" We could include Anon and Gambit. Who else?
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #157 - 07/28/08 at 03:53:01
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Is it at all possible to have an ignore function added to this forum?
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #156 - 07/28/08 at 02:57:08
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Aagaard, this is a very serious matter and I don't appreciate you trying to make it into a joke.

I recommend that people don't buy any more qualitychess products and I recommend that people don't write any more books for them!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #155 - 07/28/08 at 02:51:45
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I think everyone knows that I am very upset with Aaggards ridiculous posts but I am also very upset with IM John Cox's ridiculous posts! Here they are:

He said that he doesn't see what Davies and Emms 1...e5 repertoire books have to do with Marin's 1...e5 repertoire books because he said they offer different repertoire lines! However, he is wrong and almost all of Marin's recommendations are also recommended in either Davies, Emms, or Kaumfan's books.

He said that choosing 5...exd4 after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4 is a no-brainer becuase Marin recommends playing this line from other move-orders. However, he is wrong and Marin does not recommend playing this line from other move-orders.

He said "I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used". I can't believe he said this after saying he didn't see what Marin's repertoire book had to do with Emms and Davies and thought he didn't need to use these sources.  
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #154 - 07/27/08 at 17:50:47
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He cloned himself  Shocked
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #153 - 07/27/08 at 07:11:45
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I accept your challenge.
  

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Re: A Test for Anonymous
Reply #152 - 07/26/08 at 10:27:34
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Regius wrote on 07/09/08 at 05:27:34:
Hello dear Anonymous,

I have a challenge for you: I want you to post your analyses of the Gajewski Variation of the Main Line Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 d5) in full detail on this forum. They should be as detailed as possible, and don't just make the analysis a database dump - you should explain why you think White or Black is better in a particular position.

Any of the ChessPublishing Forum members are allowed to point out improvements over your analysis and any ommissions that you made it your analyses. And we are allowed to repeat any of your ommissions in consecutive posts, just so that you get the message.

If you are able to prove that there are no major ommissions in your analyses within 72 hours of posting your analyses, then maybe we will consider what you have to say in the future.



At the time of this post, Anonymous appeared to be only an annoyance, and had not repeated his whinging to a great extent. Therefore, Markovich understandably stood up for him.

However, Anonymous has become far more than an annoyance - rather a whinger and whiner if you ask me.

Therefore, I am asking you, Anonymous: Do you accept Regius's challenge? And don't count on someone else saving your skin this time. Either be a man for once and accept or decline and remain just a pest.

Your choice.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #151 - 07/26/08 at 09:38:53
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Aagaard is simply trying to save qualitychess but don't listen to his pathetic excuses!



this is too funny... I think you are overestimating your impact on chessworld.  Grin
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #150 - 07/25/08 at 20:25:58
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Aagaard is simply trying to save qualitychess but don't listen to his pathetic excuses!


Who's pathetic?  Doesn't this kind of ranting constitute a form of (anti)advertisement, which contravenes the rules of this forum?  Anonymous: you've made your point (sort of).  Now stop.   Angry
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #149 - 07/25/08 at 20:02:24
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Aagaard is simply trying to save qualitychess but don't listen to his pathetic excuses!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #148 - 07/25/08 at 15:13:25
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Dear GM Aagaard,

playing 8.Nd2 was very funny and I think only one contributor on this site did not get the joke. It's a pity you did not try it against GM Marin though. Anon. is just jealous that you followed my advise (not that you need it, but Anon. until now has rejected it) to use 8.Nd2 to your advantage.
As far as I am concerned you only made one big mistake in your last post.
Quote:
I have long since given up on talking any sense to Mr. Anonymeous, as have many others.

This means that half of your post is superfluous as nobody but one needs to be convinced. In all humbleness I request you to always admit that Anon. is right in the future. This will make virtual life easier for everybody. See also HgMan's post above.
Ch.gr.,

MNb
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #147 - 07/25/08 at 14:30:39
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/25/08 at 09:28:03:
I have been honest all the way, admitted failures when they were there, but not when I seriously do not think they were there. I have been light hearted and put in a real effort answering questions honestly. Mr. A's way of talking to me has been impolite to say the least. I am not surprised that he cannot see this himself, it fits the package.



Yes... I'm kinda suprised. I would wager he has no experience with publishers, editors or authors outside the chess world or in general. Most won't respond or will be utterly nasty to you if they do - defending the principle 'we are right, you are wrong, shutup' all the way to the grave. Here Aagard has not only admitted mistakes but been respondingly consistently and kindly to all of your unbridled attacks.

Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/25/08 at 09:28:03:
About the game. 13.h4 Qd7 14.h5 Bxd3 15.Qxd3 Qf5 is not really better for White, I fear.

27.Rxf5 looks dangerous, but we thought that White should draw. The rook can never move, but probably Black cannot make great progress either.

I had believed I could play Re2 at some point, but the pawn ending after Kf8 and Re8 is drawn, so is Kg7 2.Re7 Re8 3.b4 Kf6 4.Rd7 Kg7! with repetition.

Even in a game where Black makes a sort of blunder with 9...Be7, missing 11.Qe2 preventing his intended ...Bg5 - White could not prove anything over the board. The extra pawn was a very weak isolated double pawn, and accurate defence neutralised everything.


What about though: 13.h4 Qd7 14. Bxf5 gxf5 15.h5 ?

Yes I admit Rxf5 is the odd looking move but I appreciate your response to it nonetheless.

Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/25/08 at 09:28:03:
I am hoping that over time enough people will appreciate a chess publisher who is honest, tries hard, has a sense of humour and listen to criticism. So, if this debate has lost us one customer, I am hoping that another will take his place. John, I and our authors will do whatever we can to provide him with the best possible chess material.

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess



I appreciate it! I think there is nothing better than a publisher who actively communicates with his customers - this is the benefit of chesspublishing being a rather small business. I know I emailed a certain author praising his work but pointing about 10 small errors I found and a rather large one. His response was so rude and ungrateful but in reality I was probably lucky to receive a response at all.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #146 - 07/25/08 at 13:36:33
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what's so sad about this discussion is that "Mr. A" wasted all the time of the other Mr. A so that he could not tell us about his  "coming series - GRANDMASTER REPERTOIRE"  Cheesy
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #145 - 07/25/08 at 09:28:03
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WARNING: This post might contain irony, be too long and discuss areas which are of some importance to some.

I have long since given up on talking any sense to Mr. Anonymeous, as have many others.

Those who know my books, DVD's or have just met me will know that I am a pretty humorous person, with a rather overdeveloped sense of irony.

Yes, 8.Nd2 is a random move. Look at it, I got exactly everything you could ever want and played like a dream, and it was still not enough to win!

Mr. A. does not see the difference between a move that we have analysed and discussed here on the notice board and a move played between a few 2100 in awful games with moderate results in a not very important line. Had we had this discussion before the book came out, it would of course be in it. I always said that based on the material we had at the time I do not think it was a mistake not to include it. I still don't.

He does not see the difference between what Kosten found unpleasant in an internet blitz game and the refutation in an opening. Kosten never said it was the refutation and even if he did, it would still not be the case. It is just a possible move, and Black, being a tempo down, will have a few problems to solve. I do not find them too hard to solve still.

Mr. A. has not proposed one single move himself, which makes you wonder about his level of chess understanding. I have no idea how strong a player he is, but if he is a weak player, this would excuse for some of the statements he makes. His research has proved to be excellent on the other hand.

Mr. A assumes that I am dishonest by default. He does not live in the same world as I - I assume that people are honest and well intended.

Mr. A. has no sense of humour. This should motivate him to stay of the internet altogether as most people approach it with their worst jokes, and people know a lot of bad jokes!

His thinks that because he bought a book he can be offensive, make demands, be unpleasant and still expect to be talked to like he was a royal guest in a five star hotel.

It is a great tragedy that he will not buy our BAD books anymore (I admit, we make them as bad as we can on purpose).

I personally thought he would appreciate that I tested how a grandmaster would react over the board to the terrifying 8.Nd2. Though I still see absolutely no advantage for White after analysing it, it does appear to be a little tricky in practice. If I even come across a situation like this again, I will make sure that 8.Nd2 is mentioned - if nothing else then to get one of my own games in a book, hehehe.

I have been honest all the way, admitted failures when they were there, but not when I seriously do not think they were there. I have been light hearted and put in a real effort answering questions honestly. Mr. A's way of talking to me has been impolite to say the least. I am not surprised that he cannot see this himself, it fits the package.

Unlike Mr. A I do not pretend to be 100% right about everything. I give my opinion honestly, but I am always open to the possibility that I am wrong. I am also curious and playful.

Mr. A is just right, and apparently the point was that Marin's book was bad. The reason why he is right has turned out to be irrelevant and changing from the Ponziani to the Ruy Lopez and so on. Because of this I suspected that Mr. A is indeed my wife, as I recognised the pattern of reasoning. "Jacob, you are evil and I am angry with you, and I will tell you the reason as soon as I find it."

I still think it was pretty funny.

Forgetting about Mr. A, the stereotypical Internet Troll and talking about the game the rest of you should consider this:

I am NOT a professional player. I run a small business and am a family man. I have taken two weeks holiday in my birth country, one to play a tournament where a lot of old friends are playing as well (costing me about 500 pounds), another in the countryside with my family. I like to play chess the same way most other amateurs do so, I just do it a little better than the average. If you look at my games you will see that I don't know even a third of the opening theory of the average guy on Chess Publishing, I don't take professional draws and in general I don't care that much about the result. I am just as happy when I lose as when I win - which incidently is one of the ways to win more often (I know easy to say, but harder to do).

About the game. 13.h4 Qd7 14.h5 Bxd3 15.Qxd3 Qf5 is not really better for White, I fear.

Per Andreasen, the commentator here, said that 14.g4 was dubious. He is a very friendly guy and tries his best to explain the games to the audience, but unfortunately I play a different kind of chess than he, and he seems to have understood almost nothing of it so far.

27.Rxf5 looks dangerous, but we thought that White should draw. The rook can never move, but probably Black cannot make great progress either.

I had believed I could play Re2 at some point, but the pawn ending after Kf8 and Re8 is drawn, so is Kg7 2.Re7 Re8 3.b4 Kf6 4.Rd7 Kg7! with repetition.

Even in a game where Black makes a sort of blunder with 9...Be7, missing 11.Qe2 preventing his intended ...Bg5 - White could not prove anything over the board. The extra pawn was a very weak isolated double pawn, and accurate defence neutralised everything.

I will be writing a repertoire book on 1.e4 next year, and I can promise that it will not be with the Ponziani, but that it will be as good as I can make it. 3.Bb5 will come on the board. If you study my games back from 1998-2003 when I wrote some opening books, you will see that I do practice what I preach, and that I both won and lost games with my own recommendations.

Other publishers reprint and translate books with plenty of mistakes knowingly. Some authors give repertoires with 5 second Fritz suggestions in critical lines - or say that "he you will have to find something" when there is nothing to be found. It is often seen that the entire repertoire cannot be defended.

Marin played his repertoire in the Olympiad and later in 2006 and 2007 I saw him play the recommended lines again and again, against 2700 guys as well, winning against some of them, like Tiviakov and Jakovenko.

Yes, chess moves on and Marin has (also) not written the perfect book. Unfortunately we could not effort Kramnik, so we had to settle. For this I expect no forgiveness.

Would I have made all the same choices as Mihail - no. I probably would take on f4 in the King's Gambit. I would also choose 5...Bxd4 over 5...exd4 in this Italian gambit. But I don't want to publish 15 times my opinion a year. When I publish Marin, I want to publish his opinions.

We are trying very hard to imprint honesty and integrity to our authors and to check as much as possible ourselves. I know of no one who respects his readers more than Mihail Marin, a man of total integrity, but perhaps lack of ability - just like all other authors. Chess publishing is not big businesss we cannot check everything accurately. There will always be failures, no matter how hard we try. If being open and honest about some failures makes our books bad compared to those of others who are "smart enough to keep shut" it is probably bad for business, but I will not exchange my integrity for an extra zero on the pay cheque.

I am hoping that over time enough people will appreciate a chess publisher who is honest, tries hard, has a sense of humour and listen to criticism. So, if this debate has lost us one customer, I am hoping that another will take his place. John, I and our authors will do whatever we can to provide him with the best possible chess material.

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #144 - 07/25/08 at 08:12:33
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Quote:
Here are all of Aagaard's ridiculous posts!

Aagaard called 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani a random and normal move even though Tony Kosten analyzed it and showed it refutes that line of the Ponziani

Aagaard tried to give improvements for Black in the 8 Nd2 line of the Ponziani. However Tony Kosten told me he doesn't agree with Aagaard's analysis and still thinks White has the edge.

Aggard called me his wife

Aagaard said John Emm's book Play the Open Games as Black is filled with simple mistakes when in reality it isn't and is one of the best opening books ever.

Aagaard played 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani in a tournament game! This is the very move Aagaard said was a random and normal move, wasn't important enough to include in the book, and tried to give analysis to why it doesn't give White an edge.

All of these reasons is why I have lost full respect for Jacob Aagaard and will not be buying any more Quality Chess products and will try to convince everyone else to do the same!



Whiner. Who cares?

I am guessing that you have also lost full respect for: Everyman Chess for giving books in 1996 in their list of products, Gambit for not updating their website enough, Chess Stars for imperfect English in their books, Batsford for not writing opening books for advanced players, Russell Enterprises for not publishing enough books and all other chess book publishing companies for being too amateurish.

You could write a book yourself, you know.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #143 - 07/25/08 at 07:37:11
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Just saw the Aagard game, quite funny, and Ihope Aagard will comment on this.
Anyway the Marin Book is really excelent and I will continue to buy qualtity chess books  Cheesy
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #142 - 07/25/08 at 07:11:48
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Cheesy

Oh, and by the way:

Quote:
Aggard called me his wife


LOL! Smiley
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #141 - 07/25/08 at 07:02:42
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Will this boycot include this forum? Because otherwise I suspect that you'll just ask which lines they propose.

"I will not buy any Quality Chess books ever again, but which line does John Shaw recommend against x in the King's Gambit?"

Cheesy
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #140 - 07/25/08 at 02:32:45
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please ban yourself.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #139 - 07/25/08 at 02:19:51
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Here are all of Aagaard's ridiculous posts!

Aagaard called 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani a random and normal move even though Tony Kosten analyzed it and showed it refutes that line of the Ponziani

Aagaard tried to give improvements for Black in the 8 Nd2 line of the Ponziani. However Tony Kosten told me he doesn't agree with Aagaard's analysis and still thinks White has the edge.

Aggard called me his wife

Aagaard said John Emm's book Play the Open Games as Black is filled with simple mistakes when in reality it isn't and is one of the best opening books ever.

Aagaard played 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani in a tournament game! This is the very move Aagaard said was a random and normal move, wasn't important enough to include in the book, and tried to give analysis to why it doesn't give White an edge.

All of these reasons is why I have lost full respect for Jacob Aagaard and will not be buying any more Quality Chess products and will try to convince everyone else to do the same!

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #138 - 07/24/08 at 22:28:38
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tracke wrote on 07/24/08 at 20:16:28:
trw wrote on 07/24/08 at 19:21:36:
curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?

Obviously Aagaard is not only a bad author and a lazy publisher
but also as player he lacks the winning technique.

tracke  Huh



for the record I said no such thing! I was just examining a game and thought the great minds of the forum might correct me... Embarrassed not insinuate i'd state such awful things.  Cry

I know it seems weird to place the rook so passively defending but then white is just up a healthy pawn... what can black do? It is clear though that his move Rg7+ is a forced draw.

Beetlejuice wrote on 07/24/08 at 20:31:09:
trw wrote on 07/24/08 at 19:21:36:
curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?


I am actually also playing in this tournament, and I was present in the commentator's room today, where it was the general opinion that White would have had nice attacking chances after 13. h4 (instead of 13. Bxf5). Unfortunately Jacob didn't come to the commentator's room after his game - which he has done in some earlier rounds - otherwise he would he been asked to explain himself about his choice in move 13.

Maybe something to analyze here for those who consider this line important.



Yes I also wondered about 13. h4 though 13. Bxf5 seemed reasonable enough. It just felt like white had some major plus for awhile. At least thanks for taking my note seriouusly.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #137 - 07/24/08 at 22:12:17
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Beetlejuice wrote on 07/24/08 at 20:31:09:
trw wrote on 07/24/08 at 19:21:36:
rossia wrote on 07/24/08 at 14:36:17:
Hello!

Thanks to anonymus we have caught Aagarad in flagranti.

Just when he wasted thousands words to put his mask on his face, he plays nothing else but 8.Nd2:


Aagaard,Jacob (2531) - Berg,Emanuel (2592) [C44]
Politiken Cup Dennmark, 24.07.2008


1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.c3 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4
5.d5 Ne7
6.Nxe5 Ng6
7.Nxg6 hxg6
8.Nd2 Nxd2
9.Bxd2 Be7 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qe2 0-0 12.0-0-0 Bf5 13.Bxf5 gxf5 14.g4 Re8 15.gxf5 Bg5 16.Qh5 Bxd2+ 17.Rxd2 Qf6 18.Rg1 Re5 19.Rg5 g6 20.f4 Rxf5 21.Rxf5 Qxf5 22.Qxf5 gxf5 23.Rg2+ Kf8 24.Rg5 Ke7 25.h4 Rh8 26.h5 f6 27.Rg7+ Kd8 28.h6 Rxh6 29.Rg8+ Kd7 30.Rg7+ Kd8 31.Rg8+ Kd7 32.Rg7+ Kd8 ½-½




curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?


I am actually also playing in this tournament, and I was present in the commentator's room today, where it was the general opinion that White would have had nice attacking chances after 13. h4 (instead of 13. Bxf5). Unfortunately Jacob didn't come to the commentator's room after his game - which he has done in some earlier rounds - otherwise he would he been asked to explain himself about his choice in move 13.

Maybe something to analyze here for those who consider this line important.


1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.d5 Ne7 6.Nxe5 Ng6 7.Nxg6 hxg6 8.Nd2.  I looked 8...Nf6 9.Nc4 Qe7+, already suggested by Aagaard.  10. Be2 and now besides Aagaard's 10...b5, Black has 10...Qe4!?.  Now:

A.  11.Ne3 Qe5 looks fine for Black.

B.  11.0-0 Qxd5 12.Qxd5 Nxd5 13.Bf3 Nf6 14.Re1+ Be7

B1.  15.Bg5 d5=.  What does White have, really?  16.Bxf6 gxf6 17.Bxd5 c6 18.Nd6+ Kf8 doesn't look like a big deal. 

B2.  Nor does 15.Bf4 d5 16.Na5 c6 17.Bd6 Be6 18.Bxe7 Kxe7 19.Nxb7 Rab8.

C.  11.d6 Qxg2 12.Bf3 Qh6.  Silicon thinks Black is O.K., but I'm not so sure.  Even so, I don't see a clear path to White's advantage.  For instance, 13.dxc7 Qe6+ 14.Qe7 (or 13.Qe7+ Qe6 14.dxc7) 14...Qxe7+ 15.Kxe7 d5 16.Ne5 Bc5.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #136 - 07/24/08 at 22:11:38
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/24/08 at 15:50:06:
I just thought it was a really funny thing to try out. I am Danish by birth and thus prone to irony. I am sorry if anyone missed the joke  Tongue


Methinks not, more plausible is you tried it because like Tony and others you must have concluded after a closer look that it was a risk free way to play for the edge with the added bonus of being little known and studied. That's chess as Bibs says, its a move you played it, and why not.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there also a recent chessbase magazine article advocating the Ponziani, and  as far as surprise weapons go I would sooner punt this than the Centre game advovated in Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5.

We can continue to expect players to rehabilitate old and forgotten lines and openings, so long as the Marshall continues to prove such an effective drawing weapon.

Heaven forbid should the Petroff prove annoying enough we may have to abandon 1.e4 all together or even worse yet resort to, dare I say it, the King's Gambit which has the positive of avoiding the draw but the negative of handing black the full point. Grin

Rule of thumb for annonymous and his many aliases, Focus a bit less on what the masters say and a bit more on what they play, and with that pearl of wisdom I'm outta here.

Sayonara,

Toppy Smiley

 
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #135 - 07/24/08 at 21:50:44
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Anonymous: I'm an idiot.  In fact, just about everyone on this forum (yourself excepted, of course) is an idiot.  We are all fools and don't deserve the quality posts with which you provide us.  I am sure there must be another chess forum out there where your supreme analytical skills would be more graciously and gratefully appreciated than here.  Please go there.
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #134 - 07/24/08 at 21:34:20
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After all those ridiculous arguments from Aagaard that 8 Nd2 is just a random move and not important enough to include in the book, he goes and plays it himself. I have lost all respect for Jacob Aagaard! I thought Quality Chess was was a good chess book publishing company but I was wrong! I will not be buying any more of their products and I hope you do the same!

This is a message to everyone who disagrees with me on these posts! I am right and it is Marin, Aagaard, and Quality Chess who are wrong! If you can't see that by now, then you are an idiot!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #133 - 07/24/08 at 20:31:09
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trw wrote on 07/24/08 at 19:21:36:
rossia wrote on 07/24/08 at 14:36:17:
Hello!

Thanks to anonymus we have caught Aagarad in flagranti.

Just when he wasted thousands words to put his mask on his face, he plays nothing else but 8.Nd2:


Aagaard,Jacob (2531) - Berg,Emanuel (2592) [C44]
Politiken Cup Dennmark, 24.07.2008


1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.c3 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4
5.d5 Ne7
6.Nxe5 Ng6
7.Nxg6 hxg6
8.Nd2 Nxd2
9.Bxd2 Be7 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qe2 0-0 12.0-0-0 Bf5 13.Bxf5 gxf5 14.g4 Re8 15.gxf5 Bg5 16.Qh5 Bxd2+ 17.Rxd2 Qf6 18.Rg1 Re5 19.Rg5 g6 20.f4 Rxf5 21.Rxf5 Qxf5 22.Qxf5 gxf5 23.Rg2+ Kf8 24.Rg5 Ke7 25.h4 Rh8 26.h5 f6 27.Rg7+ Kd8 28.h6 Rxh6 29.Rg8+ Kd7 30.Rg7+ Kd8 31.Rg8+ Kd7 32.Rg7+ Kd8 ½-½




curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?


I am actually also playing in this tournament, and I was present in the commentator's room today, where it was the general opinion that White would have had nice attacking chances after 13. h4 (instead of 13. Bxf5). Unfortunately Jacob didn't come to the commentator's room after his game - which he has done in some earlier rounds - otherwise he would he been asked to explain himself about his choice in move 13.

Maybe something to analyze here for those who consider this line important.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #132 - 07/24/08 at 20:16:28
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trw wrote on 07/24/08 at 19:21:36:
curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?

Obviously Aagaard is not only a bad author and a lazy publisher
but also as player he lacks the winning technique.

tracke  Huh
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #131 - 07/24/08 at 19:21:36
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rossia wrote on 07/24/08 at 14:36:17:
Hello!

Thanks to anonymus we have caught Aagarad in flagranti.

Just when he wasted thousands words to put his mask on his face, he plays nothing else but 8.Nd2:


Aagaard,Jacob (2531) - Berg,Emanuel (2592) [C44]
Politiken Cup Dennmark, 24.07.2008


1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.c3 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4
5.d5 Ne7
6.Nxe5 Ng6
7.Nxg6 hxg6
8.Nd2 Nxd2
9.Bxd2 Be7 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qe2 0-0 12.0-0-0 Bf5 13.Bxf5 gxf5 14.g4 Re8 15.gxf5 Bg5 16.Qh5 Bxd2+ 17.Rxd2 Qf6 18.Rg1 Re5 19.Rg5 g6 20.f4 Rxf5 21.Rxf5 Qxf5 22.Qxf5 gxf5 23.Rg2+ Kf8 24.Rg5 Ke7 25.h4 Rh8 26.h5 f6 27.Rg7+ Kd8 28.h6 Rxh6 29.Rg8+ Kd7 30.Rg7+ Kd8 31.Rg8+ Kd7 32.Rg7+ Kd8 ½-½




curious but it feels like white is winning almost the entire game, might 27. Rxf5 keep the chance alive?
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #130 - 07/24/08 at 16:42:52
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/24/08 at 15:50:06:
I just thought it was a really funny thing to try out. I am Danish by birth and thus prone to irony. I am sorry if anyone missed the joke  Tongue


anonymus help, help help  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry

we are dealing here with liars, cheaters, heavy criminals  Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

let us condemn them all to death sentence for forging 8.Nd2 and fooling us around  Cool Cool Cool Cool

oh my dear god, where is now my naj very best friend DRUG STALIN, surely you don't wanna know him aagaard, do you?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #129 - 07/24/08 at 15:51:47
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/24/08 at 15:50:06:
I just thought it was a really funny thing to try out. I am Danish by birth and thus prone to irony. I am sorry if anyone missed the joke  Tongue


You mean, this isn't the refutation of 1...e5 and the end of chess as we know it? Shocked I am shocked and disappointed.  Sad
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #128 - 07/24/08 at 15:50:06
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I just thought it was a really funny thing to try out. I am Danish by birth and thus prone to irony. I am sorry if anyone missed the joke  Tongue
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #127 - 07/24/08 at 15:28:35
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rossia wrote on 07/24/08 at 14:36:17:
Hello!

Thanks to anonymus we have caught Aagarad in flagranti.

Just when he wasted thousands words to put his mask on his face, he plays nothing else but 8.Nd2:


Aagaard,Jacob (2531) - Berg,Emanuel (2592) [C44]
Politiken Cup Dennmark, 24.07.2008


1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.c3 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4
5.d5 Ne7
6.Nxe5 Ng6
7.Nxg6 hxg6
8.Nd2 Nxd2
9.Bxd2 Be7 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qe2 0-0 12.0-0-0 Bf5 13.Bxf5 gxf5 14.g4 Re8 15.gxf5 Bg5 16.Qh5 Bxd2+ 17.Rxd2 Qf6 18.Rg1 Re5 19.Rg5 g6 20.f4 Rxf5 21.Rxf5 Qxf5 22.Qxf5 gxf5 23.Rg2+ Kf8 24.Rg5 Ke7 25.h4 Rh8 26.h5 f6 27.Rg7+ Kd8 28.h6 Rxh6 29.Rg8+ Kd7 30.Rg7+ Kd8 31.Rg8+ Kd7 32.Rg7+ Kd8 ½-½



I am shocked that Black did not resign forthwith. I mean, isn't that what most of us would have done had we been confronted with a stunning move like 8. Nd2 in the supercritical Ponziani. Incredible that Black was able to find a response to such a move in the limitations of over the board chess and heroic that he was able to hold on for the draw. Surely Berg should be at the top of the list for this year's chess Oscars for such a feat!
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #126 - 07/24/08 at 15:19:25
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Bibs wrote on 07/24/08 at 15:16:10:
Do you live in a tent near Area 51? Bit too conspiratorial.

Is it chess? Is it the internet? Is it a combination of the two? Often seems like the lunatics have taken over the asylum hereabouts.

Its a line he was looking at here. He played it.

And no,  it  wasnt him Behind The Grassy Knoll.


I rather suspect he played it just to tweak some noses here.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #125 - 07/24/08 at 15:16:10
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Do you live in a tent near Area 51? Bit too conspiratorial.

Is it chess? Is it the internet? Is it a combination of the two? Often seems like the lunatics have taken over the asylum hereabouts.

Its a line he was looking at here. He played it.

And no,  it  wasnt him Behind The Grassy Knoll.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #124 - 07/24/08 at 15:01:30
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Don't trust anybody!!!
Cool
Usually opening books authors do not reveal all secrets, a specially when they're still competing
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #123 - 07/24/08 at 14:52:58
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Oh, calm down. Roll Eyes
It's chess. It's a move. He played it.

Zipperdeedoodah.

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #122 - 07/24/08 at 14:36:17
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Hello!

Thanks to anonymus we have caught Aagarad in flagranti.

Just when he wasted thousands words to put his mask on his face, he plays nothing else but 8.Nd2:


Aagaard,Jacob (2531) - Berg,Emanuel (2592) [C44]
Politiken Cup Dennmark, 24.07.2008


1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.c3 Nf6
4.d4 Nxe4
5.d5 Ne7
6.Nxe5 Ng6
7.Nxg6 hxg6
8.Nd2 Nxd2
9.Bxd2 Be7 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qe2 0-0 12.0-0-0 Bf5 13.Bxf5 gxf5 14.g4 Re8 15.gxf5 Bg5 16.Qh5 Bxd2+ 17.Rxd2 Qf6 18.Rg1 Re5 19.Rg5 g6 20.f4 Rxf5 21.Rxf5 Qxf5 22.Qxf5 gxf5 23.Rg2+ Kf8 24.Rg5 Ke7 25.h4 Rh8 26.h5 f6 27.Rg7+ Kd8 28.h6 Rxh6 29.Rg8+ Kd7 30.Rg7+ Kd8 31.Rg8+ Kd7 32.Rg7+ Kd8 ½-½

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #121 - 07/24/08 at 12:28:12
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And now I quote what I have said here previously!

I said
Quote:
Anonymous, I know Agaard's secret. Marin and him knew that the Ponziani was the refutation of 1..e5, but they tried to hide that. Why would someone buy a refuted opening repertoire? And as an active player, Marin will uses the Ponziani himself as a devastating effect when everyone will think that Black already equalized.


I was near the truth Smiley It would be interesting to know the result Smiley
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #120 - 07/24/08 at 12:19:30
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wolfsblut wrote on 07/24/08 at 12:04:22:
Hi,
I have a really good one: Today is Aagaard playing with white against Berg (Politiken Cup)..... and he plays .....yes: Ponziani...with yes: 8.Sd2- now I have to think about it..... and have a look what happens in the game.
greetings
wolfsblut


Since Aagaard characterized 8.Nd2 as a "random move," perhaps this signifies that he flips a coin before deciding which move to play.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #119 - 07/24/08 at 12:04:22
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Hi,
I have a really good one: Today is Aagaard playing with white against Berg (Politiken Cup)..... and he plays .....yes: Ponziani...with yes: 8.Sd2- now I have to think about it..... and have a look what happens in the game.
greetings
wolfsblut
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #118 - 07/22/08 at 00:36:50
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 07/21/08 at 22:11:40:
Group hug everyone!


Either that or tar and feathers for a certain very bothersome person here.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #117 - 07/21/08 at 22:11:40
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Group hug everyone!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #116 - 07/21/08 at 21:54:33
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Aagaard, I thank you for finally admiting Marin's faults with the book. I am very thankful that you guys came out with an update for Marin's two books.

I have a good idea about doing updates to an opening book. I would recommend doing updates for all the opening books you publish. However I would recommend coming out with the first update 2 years after the book is written and only have the update available online (don't add it to the book). This allows enough time for enough people to buy the book, for enough theory to develop to make an update worthwhile, and people won't feel the need to buy the second edition because the updates are only available online.

I would recommend having a section of your website devoted completely to these updates to your opening books. I would recommend setting up a forum, like the one here on chesspublishing.com, where readers can give their ideas about what needs updating. This way I could have suggested that 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani and a few other things be included in the update of Marin's two books.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #115 - 07/21/08 at 20:51:04
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Sorry, I did not understand that this was an argument. I will happily yield as we definitely agree on what I know understand that you want me to say: It was definitely possible for Mihail to have used more sources for the update and this could and probably would have made the book better.

For the first edition we were talking about a few serious omissions, especially the Belgrade Gambit and 7.Qb3 in the Evans Gambit. This was not great. We repaired these for the reprint, but it was still a reprint. Yes, I admit I called it for the 2nd edition to sell more copies. At least I did not write "The Most Important Opening Book" on the cover Smiley.

In volume 2 we are talking about 8.Nd2 in the Ponziani, only played by 2200 guys. Could it have been covered, definitely yes, but it was far from obvious.

Some people thought this made the first volume bad and very few thanked us for putting the update on the website. Coincidently, and not because of this, we put the Spanish update on the website only and everyone was happy. Having worked with other publishers in my career, I know that they happily translate and reprint books they know are affluent with mistakes. I have always disliked this, but maybe it is the only way to do business? Or maybe just to get it right the first time around  Wink.

To me BTOG is still a very inspirational book, but like Cox and others I would not take anything at face value.

About the 1997 book. If I mention a Bilguir book, do I have to include all opening books in the last 100 years? The logic is not that convincing.

Jacob Aagaard

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #114 - 07/21/08 at 12:58:48
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'I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used'

I should have thought the bibliography constituted an admission to that effect all by itself!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #113 - 07/19/08 at 17:46:08
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MNb wrote on 07/19/08 at 16:28:04:
Quote:
I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used and therefore the book isn't as good as it could be!


If you promise you will stop whining and also stop asking questions like "What does X recommend" then I will fall on my knees begging GM Aagaard to please, please admit it. Deal?


Deal
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #112 - 07/19/08 at 16:28:04
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Quote:
I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used and therefore the book isn't as good as it could be!


If you promise you will stop whining and also stop asking questions like "What does X recommend" then I will fall on my knees begging GM Aagaard to please, please admit it. Deal?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #111 - 07/19/08 at 08:17:33
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Quote:
I am shocked that you guys don't agree with me! I thought my argument was a lot better than Aagaard's argument!


Not really.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #110 - 07/19/08 at 02:59:21
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I am shocked that you guys don't agree with me! I thought my argument was a lot better than Aagaard's argument!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #109 - 07/19/08 at 01:11:41
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Quote:
Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote on 07/18/08 at 21:27:05:
Maybe it is good to realize your question is rethorical, since none of the anwers seem to please you. You keep on asking why Marin didn't use these sources, but as a matter of fact, this is more a complaint, rather than a question. I mean, what do you want to hear? Marin did not use these sources because he is just a lazy, incompetent author, and his books suck big time. Something like that?


I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used and therefore the book isn't as good as it could be!


Well, if that has been your project here with so many juvenile, boringly repetitious posts, you may go to everlasting blazes.  I have reached the end of my tether with your incessant carping.  I shall never again respond to one of your posts here, or comment about it here to someone else.  I suggest the same course to others.  Ex communicatio te condemno.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #108 - 07/18/08 at 21:51:16
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Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote on 07/18/08 at 21:27:05:
Maybe it is good to realize your question is rethorical, since none of the anwers seem to please you. You keep on asking why Marin didn't use these sources, but as a matter of fact, this is more a complaint, rather than a question. I mean, what do you want to hear? Marin did not use these sources because he is just a lazy, incompetent author, and his books suck big time. Something like that?


I want Aagaard to admit that Marin didn't use all available sources that he should have used and therefore the book isn't as good as it could be!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #107 - 07/18/08 at 21:27:05
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Maybe it is good to realize your question is rethorical, since none of the anwers seem to please you. You keep on asking why Marin didn't use these sources, but as a matter of fact, this is more a complaint, rather than a question. I mean, what do you want to hear? Marin did not use these sources because he is just a lazy, incompetent author, and his books suck big time. Something like that?
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #106 - 07/18/08 at 19:23:08
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/18/08 at 12:23:41:
Anonymous, I think you are making different points now. 'Omitting' 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani is in my view a valid point, albeit one of far less importance than you attach to it. It is fair to say that the reader could have been better equipped than he has been to meet this move by White; of course no repertoire book can equip the reader to meet every move, but there is scope for debate about whether this one should have been covered or not.

However, your point about 5...Bxd4 and 8..Nd4 is different; you are saying that Marin could have recommended better moves for Black. Now maybe he could and maybe he couldn't - both your examples are highly contentious (John Emms recommended 4 00/5 d4 for White in Dangerous Weapons, so he presumably doesn't agree with you), but after all he could have recommended the Petroff instead of 2...Nc6. However, I really don't consider this a valid criticism. The purpose of a repertoire book is to show one reasonable way Black can play in each situation. If 5...exd4 or 8...exf4 were actually bad moves, that would be different, but they're not. 5..exd4 in particular transposes to the Max Lange, which Marin wants to play anyway in other orders (I think, no?). So choosing it as repertoire here is a no-brainer. A repertoire isn't an academic exercise in trying to refute this or that move. It's a way of kicking off the game, and considerations such as thematic coherence, absence of memory strain and avoiding dangerous pet lines of White players even if they may be unsound, are all important. After all in many people's view 2...exf4 is decidedly better than 2...Bc5, but there's a lot of pragmatic merit in settling for it even if 2 exf4 and 3 g5 may one day be definitively shown to be best.



IM John Cox, I don't know what your talking about! Most of Marin's recommendations are also recommended in either Play the Open Games as Black, The Chess Advantage in Black and White, or Play 1 e4 e5!. This is why Marin should have used these sources. You said they recommend different repertoire lines but they don't!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #105 - 07/18/08 at 13:20:48
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/18/08 at 12:23:41:
5..exd4 in particular transposes to the Max Lange, which Marin wants to play anyway in other orders (I think, no?).



No actually, if I recall correctly, it's a little weird.  Marin doesn't want Black to play the Two Knights, which is the usual way of reaching the Max.  He wants Black to play the Max, with all of its complexity, just to counter this move order.  Personally as I said, I'm not as impressed by White's play after 5...Bxd4 as Marin seems to be.
« Last Edit: 07/18/08 at 15:06:38 by Markovich »  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #104 - 07/18/08 at 12:23:41
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Anonymous, I think you are making different points now. 'Omitting' 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani is in my view a valid point, albeit one of far less importance than you attach to it. It is fair to say that the reader could have been better equipped than he has been to meet this move by White; of course no repertoire book can equip the reader to meet every move, but there is scope for debate about whether this one should have been covered or not.

However, your point about 5...Bxd4 and 8..Nd4 is different; you are saying that Marin could have recommended better moves for Black. Now maybe he could and maybe he couldn't - both your examples are highly contentious (John Emms recommended 4 00/5 d4 for White in Dangerous Weapons, so he presumably doesn't agree with you), but after all he could have recommended the Petroff instead of 2...Nc6. However, I really don't consider this a valid criticism. The purpose of a repertoire book is to show one reasonable way Black can play in each situation. If 5...exd4 or 8...exf4 were actually bad moves, that would be different, but they're not. 5..exd4 in particular transposes to the Max Lange, which Marin wants to play anyway in other orders (I think, no?). So choosing it as repertoire here is a no-brainer. A repertoire isn't an academic exercise in trying to refute this or that move. It's a way of kicking off the game, and considerations such as thematic coherence, absence of memory strain and avoiding dangerous pet lines of White players even if they may be unsound, are all important. After all in many people's view 2...exf4 is decidedly better than 2...Bc5, but there's a lot of pragmatic merit in settling for it even if 2 exf4 and 3 g5 may one day be definitively shown to be best.

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #103 - 07/18/08 at 04:38:25
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Quote:
Aagaard, your excuses are getting more pathetic every time! If you are just going to come out with a reprint, just do a reprint. But if you are going to do a revised second edition, make sure ALL the lines that need updating are updated!

GM Tony Kosten is basically saying he thinks that whole line of the Ponziani is bad for Black. He doesn't think your earlier deviations to 10 Qf3 are good either!

I am also shocked that you think Play the Open Games as Black is really dated and riddled with errors! Even if it is riddled wih errors (which I don't believe) there are still more recent sources like The Chess Advantage in Black and White and Play 1 e4 e5 that Marin should have used. Here are two examples that I gave earlier that show that Marin's books could have been better if he had used these two sources.

After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4!?, Marin recommends 5...exd4 and spends two whole chapters discussing it! He says 5...Bxd4 is too risky but if he had looked at Larry Kaufman's The Chess Advantage in Black and White, he would have realized that 5...Bxd4 is not to risky and basically refutes this line for White and could have just recommended 5...Bxd4 and analyzed it in about half a page instead of giving two chapters on 5...exd4!

After 1 e4 e5 2 f4 Bc5 3 Nf3 d6 4 Nc3 Nf6 5 Bc4 Nc6 6 d3 Bg4 7 h3 Bxf3 8 Qxf3, he recommends 8...exf4 and says 8...Nd4 is bad because of 9 Qg3 and then only gives 9 Nxc2+, 9... Qe7, and 9...exf4 for Black, but if he had used Play 1 e4 e5!, he would have realized that 9...0-0! is ok for Black!

These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!



apples and oranges dude... I mean you're saying one source is right and therefore another source must be wrong. If chess could be this definitive so easily it would already have been solved. The reality is that is up to YOU to do your own research using the sources available. You must decide what you consider too risky. It would be a cold day in hell before I played Bxd4 because I agree with Marin not Kaufman. I happen to agree with Kaufman on another of his other wonderful suggestions but not this one. You can't possibly ask someone else to make these types of decisions for you. They can help you weigh the pros and cons but that is it. Should you go to college at a state school, take out loans for a private school or delay college til you have the funds for the one you want. I mean honestly what you're asking is both illogical and impossible. This is not an academic research paper where all sources are relevant back to the dawn of time. This is chess. Half the sources out there are dated garbage and even if they have a few chapters that is still relevant... the amount of time spent for him to get a few extra words of analysis is ridiculous when you could just access these sources yourself. What you are asking for is an encyclopedia that is never wrong. Sure take kosten's analysis if that is what you agree with but that is your personal choice. I don't know how else to explain to you how childish your logic sounds.


you know on a sidenote... Nigel Davies' request for no anonymous people makes awhole more sense now.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #102 - 07/18/08 at 03:44:29
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Aagaard, I just looked at Marin's bibliography for Beating the Open Games and he has Play the Evan's Gambit on there from 1997! Play the Open Games as Black was written in 2000! Your saying Marin didn't use Play the Open Games as Black as a source because it is dated and not computer checked but Play the Evan's Gambit is even more dated and im sure that book wasn't computer checked!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #101 - 07/18/08 at 01:44:24
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micawber wrote on 07/17/08 at 06:46:45:
Thx for the gamescore and analysis:

1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.c3,Nf6 4.d4,exd4 5.e5,Ne4 6.Qe2,f5 7.exf6,d5 8.Nbd2
8.....,Qxf6 (iso d3) 9.Nxe4,dxe 10.Qxe4,Qe6 (iso Qe7) is discussed in the
link from my previous post.

Botterill already in 1986 (and I am curious, dear Anonymous, if Marin did not include his book in his bibliography - might be another grave omission!) called 10...Qe6 "reasonably safe and hence hardly in the spirit of this lively variation."
After 8...d3 9.Qe3 Bc5 10.fxg7 Rg8 11.Nd4 Black should play Bxd4 (Grabinsky improved on Botterill's analysis after 11...Qe7, 15.Ne4! was his novelty) 12.cxd4 Bf5 and matters have been unclear since Iskov-Kaiszauri, Oslo 1980 (0-1 in 28 moves).
But again, I only will discuss this in the thread Micawber gave a link to. I actually had forgotten about it.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #100 - 07/17/08 at 21:57:10
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Anonymous, I know Agaard's secret. Marin and him knew that the Ponziani was the refutation of 1..e5, but they tried to hide that. Why would someone buy a refuted opening repertoire? And as an active player, Marin will uses the Ponziani himself as a devastating effect when everyone will think that Black already equalized.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #99 - 07/17/08 at 21:12:43
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/17/08 at 07:00:17:
I should maybe add this - we are at the moment working on the first two volumes in our Grandmaster Repertoire series, which will be announced properly in August.


Well since this is no more a secret, please tell us what will be the contents of book 1 and 2, how many pages, and most importantly WHEN can we buy it?  Shocked Shocked Shocked
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #98 - 07/17/08 at 20:40:09
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Aagaard, your excuses are getting more pathetic every time! If you are just going to come out with a reprint, just do a reprint. But if you are going to do a revised second edition, make sure ALL the lines that need updating are updated!

GM Tony Kosten is basically saying he thinks that whole line of the Ponziani is bad for Black. He doesn't think your earlier deviations to 10 Qf3 are good either!

I am also shocked that you think Play the Open Games as Black is really dated and riddled with errors! Even if it is riddled wih errors (which I don't believe) there are still more recent sources like The Chess Advantage in Black and White and Play 1 e4 e5 that Marin should have used. Here are two examples that I gave earlier that show that Marin's books could have been better if he had used these two sources.

After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4!?, Marin recommends 5...exd4 and spends two whole chapters discussing it! He says 5...Bxd4 is too risky but if he had looked at Larry Kaufman's The Chess Advantage in Black and White, he would have realized that 5...Bxd4 is not to risky and basically refutes this line for White and could have just recommended 5...Bxd4 and analyzed it in about half a page instead of giving two chapters on 5...exd4!

After 1 e4 e5 2 f4 Bc5 3 Nf3 d6 4 Nc3 Nf6 5 Bc4 Nc6 6 d3 Bg4 7 h3 Bxf3 8 Qxf3, he recommends 8...exf4 and says 8...Nd4 is bad because of 9 Qg3 and then only gives 9 Nxc2+, 9... Qe7, and 9...exf4 for Black, but if he had used Play 1 e4 e5!, he would have realized that 9...0-0! is ok for Black!

These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #97 - 07/17/08 at 07:00:17
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I apparently cannot get through with this one to Mr. A, maybe because it makes his whole line of argumentation redundant. BTOG II was essentially a reprint. With very limited time on his hands, we asked Mihail to look into comments made on the first edition. This and his own practice was the backbone of the expanded reprint.

Some of the books mentioned were not out when the original book were written, and to be honest, I told Mihail that the Emms book was pretty dated. I know it is a very popular book, but it is filled with simple mistakes, as it is probably the last opening book not to be computer checked in any way. For example, there is this line:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. Re1 d5 7. Bxd5 Qxd5 8.
Nc3 Qa5 9. Nxe4 Be6 10. Neg5 O-O-O 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Rxe6 Bd6 13. Bg5 Rde8 14.
Qe1 Qxe1+ 15. Raxe1 Kd7 16. Rxe8 Rxe8 17. Rxe8 Kxe8 18. Kf1 Kf7 19. Bd2 h6 20.
Ke2 Ke6 21. Kd3 Kd5 22. Nxd4 Nxd4 23. c4+ Ke5 24. f4+ Kf5 25. Kxd4 Bxf4 26.
Bxf4 Kxf4 27. b4 h5 28. a4 h4 29. a5 a6 30. b5 g5 31. Kd5 g4 32. c5 Ke3 33. c6
bxc6+ 34. Kxc6 axb5 35. a6 Kf2 36. a7 Kxg2 37. a8=Q Kxh2 38. Qa2+ Kh3 39. Kd5
g3 40. Ke4 g2 41. Qf2 1-0

He mentioned this line as very dangerous for Black. In reality 23...Ke6 was an immediate draw. As I had seen the game live, I had spotted it myself, but any computer would have pointed it out. I remember checking the book over back then and finding many of these mistakes.

I am not out to criticise John's book, it was exactly from that point where the culture in chess and chess writing changed to everything being fritzed, but it does mean that as a source it would be heavy chewing.

About 10.Qf3. If indeed this is worse for Black, then there are the other 6-7 options I gave to turn to.

In essense all openings will give Black problems to solve, but this does not look any more threatening to me than any of the other options you can work out. After 1.e4 e5 I have Maybe a million games in my database. 8.Nd2 represents 3 of these. In only (!) 336 pages there will have to be made some choices.

Anyway - "Perfectionism is spelled p-a-r-a-l-y-s-i-s" Winston Churchill.

I should maybe add this - we are at the moment working on the first two volumes in our Grandmaster Repertoire series, which will be announced properly in August. John and I have tried really hard to include all possible sources. I can assure you that 1) this is really hard and 2) most of the recommendations existing in other books are utter rubbish.

There are two recent books that recommend some gambits and try to make them look playable by suggesting new moves here and there without analysis. With analysis these suggestions become rather humorous, one of them transposing to the main line with two tempos less. So far I have not come across any new recommendation in the sources we have seen that are really improvements. We will do more to include responses to them, but honestly, many writers out there do not put a lot of work into their analysis, unfortunately. Maybe the conclusion we need to make is to pay more attention to the ideas given here on Chess Publishing  Wink.

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #96 - 07/17/08 at 06:46:45
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Thx for the gamescore and analysis:

1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,Nc6 3.c3,Nf6 4.d4,exd4 5.e5,Ne4 6.Qe2,f5 7.exf6,d5 8.Nbd2
8.....,Qxf6 (iso d3) 9.Nxe4,dxe 10.Qxe4,Qe6 (iso Qe7) is discussed in the
link from my previous post.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #95 - 07/17/08 at 06:38:56
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(10) Grabinsky,Vladimir (2316) - Potapov,Alexander1 (2530) [C44]
Pardubice op-A Pardubice (1), 22.07.2005
[Kritz]




1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nf6 5.e5 Ne4 6.Qe2 f5

[6...d5 7.exd6 f5 8.Nbd2 Bxd6 9.Nxe4 fxe4 10.Qxe4+ Qe7 11.Qxe7+ Kxe7 12.cxd4² Of course Black has good chances of winning back the d4-pawn, but in the meanwhile White can perhaps obtain other strategic advantages.]

7.exf6

[7.cxd4 d5! 8.Nc3 Be6„ White has to spend a lot of time developing the bishop from the f1–square. The position offers sufficient opportunities to both sides. ]

7...d5 8.Nbd2 d3

[8...Qxf6 9.Nxe4 dxe4 10.Qxe4+ Qe7 11.Qxe7+ Bxe7 12.Nxd4 Nxd4 13.cxd4 Be6 14.Be3²]

9.Qe3! A very strong move! The d3-pawn can always be taken later.

[9.Qxd3 doesn't bring him an advantage. 9...Nxf6=]

9...Bc5

[9...Qxf6 10.Nxe4 dxe4 11.Qxe4+ Qe7 12.Bxd3±;
9...Bf5 10.Bxd3 Qxf6 (10...Bc5 11.fxg7 Rg8 12.Nd4±) 11.Nxe4 dxe4 12.Bxe4 0–0–0 13.0–0±]

10.fxg7 Rg8 11.Nd4 Qe7

[11...Rxg7 12.Bxd3 Bf5 13.0–0 Bxd4 (13...Nxd4 14.cxd4 Bd6 15.Re1!
(15.Nxe4 dxe4 16.Bxe4 Bxh2+ 17.Kxh2 Qh4+ 18.Kg1 Qxe4 19.Qxe4+ Bxe4 20.Re1 Re7± Despite everything, the presence of bishops of opposite colours increases the the risk of a draw. )
15...Qh4 16.g3! 0–0–0 17.Nxe4 dxe4 18.Bxe4 Bxe4 19.Qxe4+- Bxg3 The final attempt. 20.hxg3 Rxg3+ 21.fxg3 Qxg3+ 22.Kf1 Rf8+ 23.Ke2 Rf2+ 24.Kd1+- Almost mate, but not quite!) 14.cxd4 Qe7 15.Re1 Nd6 16.Nf3 Qxe3 17.Rxe3+± White has an extra pawn and the bishop pair.]

12.Bxd3 Nxd4

[12...Nxd2 13.Qxe7+ Bxe7 (13...Kxe7 14.Nxc6+ bxc6 15.Bxd2 Rxg7 16.0–0 Bh3 17.Rfe1+ Kf6 18.g3+-) 14.Bxd2 Nxd4 15.cxd4 Rxg7 16.g3 Bh3 17.0–0–0±]

13.cxd4 Bxd4

[13...Nxd2 14.Qxe7+ Bxe7 15.Bxd2 Rxg7 16.g3 Bh3 17.0–0–0±]

14.Qxd4! Ng3+ 15.Ne4! Material is no longer important; what matters is the king! 15...Nxh1

[15...dxe4 16.Bb5+ c6 17.hxg3 cxb5 18.Rh5 Be6 19.Bg5 Qxg7 20.Qxe4+-]

16.Bg5 Qe6 17.Kf1

[17.0–0–0!+- would have been even stronger and even more effective! Black can resign.]

17...Kf7 18.Bf6 h6 19.Re1 c5 20.Qxc5 dxe4 21.Bc4 Kxf6 22.Bxe6 Bxe6 23.Kg1 Nxf2 24.Qxf2+ Kxg7 25.Qd4+ Kg6 26.Rf1 Rae8 27.Rf6+ Kh5 28.Rxe6 Rxe6 29.Qd5+ 1–0


  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #94 - 07/17/08 at 06:31:16
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I agree with MNb. In fact we analysed this line on the forum before:

www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1182283379/0#9

The "popatov" game can be found in this thread as well, it refers to
a side variation that is not black's best.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #93 - 07/17/08 at 02:34:36
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rossia wrote on 07/16/08 at 06:58:16:
The position can also be reached via the Scotch Gambit  (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nf6).
After 5.e5 Black once more has the choice:

a) 5...Ne4 6.Qe2 f5 7.exf5 d5 8.Nbd2 and in the resulting complications White does have better prospects: Grabinsky,V - Potapov,A 1-0.

For once I agree with Anonymous. If you want to discuss the Ponziani, you should start a new thread. I would be pleased if you posted that game Grabinsky-Potapov, as the judgment better prospects for White looks quite debatable to me.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #92 - 07/17/08 at 01:23:10
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rossia wrote on 07/16/08 at 06:58:16:
Let us see what Chessbase Magazine 124 has to say about line which Marin recommends against Ponziani:


Ponziani - good enough for a surprise weapon
by Leonid Kritz


By far the safest reply nowadays to 1.e4 is 1...e5. It is very difficult for White to achieve an advantage in the Petrov Defence or the Ruy Lopez. Well, it is unfortunately hardly possible to avoid the Petrov, unless you play the King's Gambit or something similar. On the other hand, there are several possible ways of side-stepping the Ruy Lopez. The most frequently seen deviations are the Scotch Game and the Giuoco Piano. But unfortunately Black can easily equalise in both these openings with correct play. And as White, there is an enormous amount of theory to be known in both these openings so as not to be at a disadvantage. In other words, you have to do a lot of work and in spite of that you cannot get anything more than equality. So in such situations it is sometimes better and more efficient to look out a rare opening which leads to interesting positions and at the same time can prove a somewhat unpleasant surprise for your opponent. One such opening is the Ponziani Opening.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3!? - and there we have the Ponziani.

White's idea is obvious: he wants to play 4.d4 and then, after 4...exd4, to recapture with the pawn - 5.cxd4 - in order to secure for himself an advantage in the centre. Black has two ways in which he can disturb White's plan, the moves 3...d5 and 3...Nf6.

C) The solid main continuation 3...Nf6

4.d4! Of course, what else? It is incredible but  roughly 1/5 of games continued with 4.d3?... Of course the Ponziani should not be played so passively!
Black can now choose between 4...Nxe4 and 4...exd4.

C1) 4...exd4

The position can also be reached via the Scotch Gambit  (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nf6).
After 5.e5 Black once more has the choice:

a) 5...Ne4 6.Qe2 f5 7.exf5 d5 8.Nbd2 and in the resulting complications White does have better prospects: Grabinsky,V - Potapov,A 1-0.

b) 5...Nd5  6.cxd4 ¥b4+ 7.Bd2 Bxd2+ 8.Qxd2 0-0 8...d6 9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.Qxc3 boils down to the same variation.

9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.Qxc3! d6 11.Be2

In Isgandarova,K - Ozturk,K ½-½ White had a slight advantage, which is of course insufficient to achieve anything real if Black plays correctly . But after all, where else can you find a genuine plus in the 1.e4 e5 openings?

C2) 4...Nxe4

5.d5 Ne7 6.Nxe5 Ng6 7.Qd4 Nor does 7.Qf3 Qe7 change anything.

On the other hand 7.Nxg6 can be interesting. After 7...hxg6 8.Qe2 Qe7 9.Bf4 d6 10.Na3 Nf6 11.0-0-0 White got a certain amount of initiative in Delchev,A - Plachetka,J 1-0.

7...Qe7 8.Qxe4 Qxe5 9.Qxe5 Nxe5

10.Bf4 Bd6 10...d6 is also very solid, but White has at least secured for himself a slight advantage in space; 11.Na3 a6, the position is level, but there is still play in it: Gu Xiaobing - Xie Jun 1-0.
11.Bg3 0-0 12.Nd2 f5!

A very precise move!
13.f3 b6 14.0-0-0 Bb7 15.Nc4 Nxc4 16.Bxc4

The position is approximately level; White's winning chances are based solely on the bad bishop on b7. If Black solves this problem successfully, which will not be all that difficult, he will reach equality: Kleeschaetzky,R - Slobodjan,R ½-½.


As a conclusion I can state that the Ponziani is perfectly usable as a surprise weapon. Black has to find some accurate moves. Little inaccuracies allow White to achieve a secure advantage. But of course the Ponziani will not do as a main opening; at a certain point your opponents will begin to prepare for it properly and to head only for solid lines, and then it will no longer be fun. But if you play it from time to time, the Ponziani is a dangerous weapon.



This has nothing to do with what we are discussing!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #91 - 07/16/08 at 06:58:16
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Let us see what Chessbase Magazine 124 has to say about line which Marin recommends against Ponziani:


Ponziani - good enough for a surprise weapon
by Leonid Kritz


By far the safest reply nowadays to 1.e4 is 1...e5. It is very difficult for White to achieve an advantage in the Petrov Defence or the Ruy Lopez. Well, it is unfortunately hardly possible to avoid the Petrov, unless you play the King's Gambit or something similar. On the other hand, there are several possible ways of side-stepping the Ruy Lopez. The most frequently seen deviations are the Scotch Game and the Giuoco Piano. But unfortunately Black can easily equalise in both these openings with correct play. And as White, there is an enormous amount of theory to be known in both these openings so as not to be at a disadvantage. In other words, you have to do a lot of work and in spite of that you cannot get anything more than equality. So in such situations it is sometimes better and more efficient to look out a rare opening which leads to interesting positions and at the same time can prove a somewhat unpleasant surprise for your opponent. One such opening is the Ponziani Opening.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3!? - and there we have the Ponziani.

White's idea is obvious: he wants to play 4.d4 and then, after 4...exd4, to recapture with the pawn - 5.cxd4 - in order to secure for himself an advantage in the centre. Black has two ways in which he can disturb White's plan, the moves 3...d5 and 3...Nf6.

C) The solid main continuation 3...Nf6

4.d4! Of course, what else? It is incredible but  roughly 1/5 of games continued with 4.d3?... Of course the Ponziani should not be played so passively!
Black can now choose between 4...Nxe4 and 4...exd4.

C1) 4...exd4

The position can also be reached via the Scotch Gambit  (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nf6).
After 5.e5 Black once more has the choice:

a) 5...Ne4 6.Qe2 f5 7.exf5 d5 8.Nbd2 and in the resulting complications White does have better prospects: Grabinsky,V - Potapov,A 1-0.

b) 5...Nd5  6.cxd4 ¥b4+ 7.Bd2 Bxd2+ 8.Qxd2 0-0 8...d6 9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.Qxc3 boils down to the same variation.

9.Nc3 Nxc3 10.Qxc3! d6 11.Be2

In Isgandarova,K - Ozturk,K ½-½ White had a slight advantage, which is of course insufficient to achieve anything real if Black plays correctly . But after all, where else can you find a genuine plus in the 1.e4 e5 openings?

C2) 4...Nxe4

5.d5 Ne7 6.Nxe5 Ng6 7.Qd4 Nor does 7.Qf3 Qe7 change anything.

On the other hand 7.Nxg6 can be interesting. After 7...hxg6 8.Qe2 Qe7 9.Bf4 d6 10.Na3 Nf6 11.0-0-0 White got a certain amount of initiative in Delchev,A - Plachetka,J 1-0.

7...Qe7 8.Qxe4 Qxe5 9.Qxe5 Nxe5

10.Bf4 Bd6 10...d6 is also very solid, but White has at least secured for himself a slight advantage in space; 11.Na3 a6, the position is level, but there is still play in it: Gu Xiaobing - Xie Jun 1-0.
11.Bg3 0-0 12.Nd2 f5!

A very precise move!
13.f3 b6 14.0-0-0 Bb7 15.Nc4 Nxc4 16.Bxc4

The position is approximately level; White's winning chances are based solely on the bad bishop on b7. If Black solves this problem successfully, which will not be all that difficult, he will reach equality: Kleeschaetzky,R - Slobodjan,R ½-½.


As a conclusion I can state that the Ponziani is perfectly usable as a surprise weapon. Black has to find some accurate moves. Little inaccuracies allow White to achieve a secure advantage. But of course the Ponziani will not do as a main opening; at a certain point your opponents will begin to prepare for it properly and to head only for solid lines, and then it will no longer be fun. But if you play it from time to time, the Ponziani is a dangerous weapon.

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #90 - 07/15/08 at 20:55:47
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Antillian wrote on 07/15/08 at 20:37:14:
Quote:

IM John Cox, of course Marin's repertoire book doesn't recommend ALL the same lines ad any other repertoire book does but most of the line he recommends are also analyzed in at least 1 of the other main 3 1 e4 e5 repertoire books, Play the Open games as Black by John Emms, The Chess Advantage in Black and White by Larry Kaufman, and Play 1 e4 e5! by Nigel Davies.

Here is a list of Marin's recommendations and which of the other 3 books mentioned above they are also recommended in:

Italian Game: 3...Bc5                                Kaufman
Scotch Game: Mieses 8...Nb6                     Emms
Goring Gambit: 4...d5                                Emms, Davies
Scotch Gambit: 5...Bc5                              Kaufman
Spanish Four Knights: 5...Bb4                    Davies
Scotch Four Knights: 4...Bb4                      Emms, Davies
Belgrade Gambit: 5...Be7                          Emms, Kaufman, Davies
Glek System: 4...Bc5                                none
Ponziani Opening: 3...Nf6 4 d4 Nxe4           Emms
King's Gambit: Declined, 2...Bc5                Davies
Vienna Game: 2...Nc6                               none
Bishop's Opening: 2...Nc6                          Kaufman
Center Game 4...g6                                  Davies
Danish Gambit: 3...d5                               Emms, Davies

So IM John Cox, do you still think that Marin's repertoire book recommends different lines than these 3 books?  


How do you know this? You mean you actually bought Marin, Kaufman, Daives and Emms?  Shocked

Oh silly me, of course not. You probably posted a few queries on this website to find out what each of these other books recommend?  Embarrassed


Yes, I bought a copy of all 4 of these books! Basically all of the chapters in these books are useful for my purposes. The reason I ask what certain books recommend is because I only need like one chapter and I don't want to have to waste money on buying an entire book only for 1 chapter!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #89 - 07/15/08 at 20:37:14
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Quote:

IM John Cox, of course Marin's repertoire book doesn't recommend ALL the same lines ad any other repertoire book does but most of the line he recommends are also analyzed in at least 1 of the other main 3 1 e4 e5 repertoire books, Play the Open games as Black by John Emms, The Chess Advantage in Black and White by Larry Kaufman, and Play 1 e4 e5! by Nigel Davies.

Here is a list of Marin's recommendations and which of the other 3 books mentioned above they are also recommended in:

Italian Game: 3...Bc5                                Kaufman
Scotch Game: Mieses 8...Nb6                     Emms
Goring Gambit: 4...d5                                Emms, Davies
Scotch Gambit: 5...Bc5                              Kaufman
Spanish Four Knights: 5...Bb4                    Davies
Scotch Four Knights: 4...Bb4                      Emms, Davies
Belgrade Gambit: 5...Be7                          Emms, Kaufman, Davies
Glek System: 4...Bc5                                none
Ponziani Opening: 3...Nf6 4 d4 Nxe4           Emms
King's Gambit: Declined, 2...Bc5                Davies
Vienna Game: 2...Nc6                               none
Bishop's Opening: 2...Nc6                          Kaufman
Center Game 4...g6                                  Davies
Danish Gambit: 3...d5                               Emms, Davies

So IM John Cox, do you still think that Marin's repertoire book recommends different lines than these 3 books? 


How do you know this? You mean you actually bought Marin, Kaufman, Daives and Emms?  Shocked

Oh silly me, of course not. You probably posted a few queries on this website to find out what each of these other books recommend?  Embarrassed
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #88 - 07/15/08 at 20:30:11
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/15/08 at 11:58:28:
Why on earth WOULD Marin use sources which offer different repertoires for Black to his? I can see a case for checking popular White books so that readers are given suitable replies to the methods recommended therein, but what Davies and Emms have to do with Marin's book I don't see.


IM John Cox, of course Marin's repertoire book doesn't recommend ALL the same lines ad any other repertoire book does but most of the line he recommends are also analyzed in at least 1 of the other main 3 1 e4 e5 repertoire books, Play the Open games as Black by John Emms, The Chess Advantage in Black and White by Larry Kaufman, and Play 1 e4 e5! by Nigel Davies.

Here is a list of Marin's recommendations and which of the other 3 books mentioned above they are also recommended in:

Italian Game: 3...Bc5                                Kaufman
Scotch Game: Mieses 8...Nb6                     Emms
Goring Gambit: 4...d5                                Emms, Davies
Scotch Gambit: 5...Bc5                              Kaufman
Spanish Four Knights: 5...Bb4                    Davies
Scotch Four Knights: 4...Bb4                      Emms, Davies
Belgrade Gambit: 5...Be7                          Emms, Kaufman, Davies
Glek System: 4...Bc5                                none
Ponziani Opening: 3...Nf6 4 d4 Nxe4           Emms
King's Gambit: Declined, 2...Bc5                Davies
Vienna Game: 2...Nc6                               none
Bishop's Opening: 2...Nc6                          Kaufman
Center Game 4...g6                                  Davies
Danish Gambit: 3...d5                               Emms, Davies

So IM John Cox, do you still think that Marin's repertoire book recommends different lines than these 3 books?  
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #87 - 07/15/08 at 18:24:10
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MNb wrote on 07/15/08 at 15:57:32:
Quote:
These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!


Anonymous is well underway with his book the 64 worst omissions of Mihail Marin.

Quote:
I asked GM Tony Kosten his thoughts on Aagaards analysis and he said, "I don't think it is as easy for Black as Jacob seems to think, Maybe 10 Qf3 is even more accurate."

Enough said!


No, by far not enough said. I already wrote which three steps you can take from this point. As you seemed to have missed it dismally, I'll repeat it:

1. refute GM Kosten's analysis.
2. deviate as Black at an earlier point.
3. play the Ponziani yourself.

All three imply that you have to do work yourself of course. This might be your real problem, considering the 90% of your posts containing "What does X recommend against the Outer-Mongolian Defence of the Tierra del Fuegian Attack?"


Oh no! I thought I was the only one who knew about the Outer-Mongolian Defense of the Tierra del Fuegian Attack  Sad. Great, now I've got to go find another answer to 2.a4.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #86 - 07/15/08 at 17:22:27
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Quote:
I have finally decided to give this post a rest!


Lips Sealed

Quote:
IMJohnCox wrote on 07/15/08 at 11:58:28:
Why on earth WOULD Marin use sources which offer different repertoires for Black to his? I can see a case for checking popular White books so that readers are given suitable replies to the methods recommended therein, but what Davies and Emms have to do with Marin's book I don't see.


Are you serious IM John Cox? I would expect other like Bibs to make dumb comments like this but I expected far better from you! Most of the lines Marin recommends are also recommended in either Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, The Chess Advantage in Black and White, etc. Also, Marin didn't look at White repertoire books!

For example, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4!?, Marin recommends 5...exd4 and spends two whole chapters discussing it! He says 5...Bxd4 is too risky but if he had looked at Larry Kaufman's The Chess Advantage in Black and White, he would have realized that 5...Bxd4 is not to risky and basically refutes this line for White and could have just recommended 5...Bxd4 and analyzed it in about half a page instead of giving two chapters on 5...exd4!

Also, another example is after 1 e4 e5 2 f4 Bc5 3 Nf3 d6 4 Nc3 Nf6 5 Bc4 Nc6 6 d3 Bg4 7 h3 Bxf3 8 Qxf3, he recommends 8...exf4 and says 8...Nd4 is bad because of 9 Qg3 and then only gives 9 Nxc2+, 9... Qe7, and 9...exf4 for Black, but if he had used Play 1 e4 e5!, he would have realized that 9...0-0! is ok for Black!

These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!


Whiny whiny whiny!   Smiley
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #85 - 07/15/08 at 15:58:35
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MNb wrote on 07/15/08 at 15:57:32:
Quote:
These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!


Anonymous is well underway with his book the 64 worst omissions of Mihail Marin.


A topic of vast importance and interest, no doubt, to one or two people.  But in fact, Anonymous is way short of 64.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #84 - 07/15/08 at 15:57:32
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Quote:
These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!


Anonymous is well underway with his book the 64 worst omissions of Mihail Marin.

Quote:
I asked GM Tony Kosten his thoughts on Aagaards analysis and he said, "I don't think it is as easy for Black as Jacob seems to think, Maybe 10 Qf3 is even more accurate."

Enough said!


No, by far not enough said. I already wrote which three steps you can take from this point. As you seemed to have missed it dismally, I'll repeat it:

1. refute GM Kosten's analysis.
2. deviate as Black at an earlier point.
3. play the Ponziani yourself.

All three imply that you have to do work yourself of course. This might be your real problem, considering the 90% of your posts containing "What does X recommend against the Outer-Mongolian Defence of the Tierra del Fuegian Attack?"
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #83 - 07/15/08 at 15:56:30
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Quote:
Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/03/08 at 17:22:33:
It seems that there continues to be a case to answer after this refutation of the Marin recommendation in the Ponziani, which Tony Kosten was stunned to see was not mentioned in either the first - and later a reader was upset not to find in the second edition.First of all, our books are not written to counter ChessPublishing.com or to give answers to their readers in particular, but to offer the best possible weaponry for the practical player. If you want completeness, get a database. If you want an opinion, get our books. At least, this is the philosophy we live by. Like everyone else, we do at times come short of our ideals. However, this is not one of those moments.The suggested refutation has been played in three unimportant games from 1997 to 2004 and looks - and seems to be - completely harmless. As a repertoire book of 1500 pages is undesirable for all, Mihail ignored such options.To prove our case, I have decided to offer a closer look. This does not mean that I will do so everytime someone is concerned, but I felt like it.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.d5 Ne7 6.Nxe5 Ng6 7.Nxg6 hxg6 8.Nd2 This is supposedly the refutation, though Kosten never says anything of that sort. I called it a random move, which is exactly what it is. Possible, equal among equals. I will give a few recommendations for the upset reader as consolation. 8...Nxd2 Looks fine to me, but not the only move. [8...Nc5 might be perfectly acceptable as well.; 8...Nf6 9.Nc4 This is supposedly dangerous, with the idea d6. I cannot see this. (On 9.Nf3 Bc5= looks like an obvious improvement over the eccentric 9...Rh5, as mentioned by Tony.) 9...Qe7+ (9...d6 with moves such as 10.Be2 Be7 11.0–0 0–0 12.Re1 Re8 is not giving White anything to speak about. Fritz is wrong here, for once. But yes, it does look a bit passive.) 10.Be2 b5 11.Ne3 Bb7 12.0–0 Qc5 looks very unclear to me, and in no way worse for Black.] 9.Bxd2 Bc5 [9...Bd6 and; 9...b6 are both ok for Black, as far as I can see.] 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qf3 Qh4 This is one possible improvement. [11...Qe7+ 12.Kf1 might actually give White a slight edge, as in Tony's Game.] 12.0–0–0 Bg4 13.Rde1+ [13.Qe4+ Kf8 14.f3 Bd7=] 13...Kf8 14.Qf4 Bd7 and the variation has been refuted into a very safe endgame for Black. =

And no, I don't see this as important enough to make the book, though I am sure that equally unimportant lines probably made the book...

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess


I asked GM Tony Kosten his thoughts on Aagaards analysis and he said, "I don't think it is as easy for Black as Jacob seems to think, Maybe 10 Qf3 is even more accurate."

Enough said!


Start a Ponziani thread for discussion of this point.  It really isn't relevant to the topic of this thread -- a point that has already been made here many times.
  

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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #82 - 07/15/08 at 15:38:31
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/03/08 at 17:22:33:
It seems that there continues to be a case to answer after this refutation of the Marin recommendation in the Ponziani, which Tony Kosten was stunned to see was not mentioned in either the first - and later a reader was upset not to find in the second edition.First of all, our books are not written to counter ChessPublishing.com or to give answers to their readers in particular, but to offer the best possible weaponry for the practical player. If you want completeness, get a database. If you want an opinion, get our books. At least, this is the philosophy we live by. Like everyone else, we do at times come short of our ideals. However, this is not one of those moments.The suggested refutation has been played in three unimportant games from 1997 to 2004 and looks - and seems to be - completely harmless. As a repertoire book of 1500 pages is undesirable for all, Mihail ignored such options.To prove our case, I have decided to offer a closer look. This does not mean that I will do so everytime someone is concerned, but I felt like it.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.d5 Ne7 6.Nxe5 Ng6 7.Nxg6 hxg6 8.Nd2 This is supposedly the refutation, though Kosten never says anything of that sort. I called it a random move, which is exactly what it is. Possible, equal among equals. I will give a few recommendations for the upset reader as consolation. 8...Nxd2 Looks fine to me, but not the only move. [8...Nc5 might be perfectly acceptable as well.; 8...Nf6 9.Nc4 This is supposedly dangerous, with the idea d6. I cannot see this. (On 9.Nf3 Bc5= looks like an obvious improvement over the eccentric 9...Rh5, as mentioned by Tony.) 9...Qe7+ (9...d6 with moves such as 10.Be2 Be7 11.0–0 0–0 12.Re1 Re8 is not giving White anything to speak about. Fritz is wrong here, for once. But yes, it does look a bit passive.) 10.Be2 b5 11.Ne3 Bb7 12.0–0 Qc5 looks very unclear to me, and in no way worse for Black.] 9.Bxd2 Bc5 [9...Bd6 and; 9...b6 are both ok for Black, as far as I can see.] 10.Bd3 d6 11.Qf3 Qh4 This is one possible improvement. [11...Qe7+ 12.Kf1 might actually give White a slight edge, as in Tony's Game.] 12.0–0–0 Bg4 13.Rde1+ [13.Qe4+ Kf8 14.f3 Bd7=] 13...Kf8 14.Qf4 Bd7 and the variation has been refuted into a very safe endgame for Black. =

And no, I don't see this as important enough to make the book, though I am sure that equally unimportant lines probably made the book...

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess


I asked GM Tony Kosten his thoughts on Aagaards analysis and he said, "I don't think it is as easy for Black as Jacob seems to think, Maybe 10 Qf3 is even more accurate."

Enough said!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #81 - 07/15/08 at 15:31:49
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/15/08 at 11:58:28:
Why on earth WOULD Marin use sources which offer different repertoires for Black to his? I can see a case for checking popular White books so that readers are given suitable replies to the methods recommended therein, but what Davies and Emms have to do with Marin's book I don't see.


Are you serious IM John Cox? I would expect other like Bibs to make dumb comments like this but I expected far better from you! Most of the lines Marin recommends are also recommended in either Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, The Chess Advantage in Black and White, etc. Also, Marin didn't look at White repertoire books!

For example, after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bc4 Bc5 4 0-0 Nf6 5 d4!?, Marin recommends 5...exd4 and spends two whole chapters discussing it! He says 5...Bxd4 is too risky but if he had looked at Larry Kaufman's The Chess Advantage in Black and White, he would have realized that 5...Bxd4 is not to risky and basically refutes this line for White and could have just recommended 5...Bxd4 and analyzed it in about half a page instead of giving two chapters on 5...exd4!

Also, another example is after 1 e4 e5 2 f4 Bc5 3 Nf3 d6 4 Nc3 Nf6 5 Bc4 Nc6 6 d3 Bg4 7 h3 Bxf3 8 Qxf3, he recommends 8...exf4 and says 8...Nd4 is bad because of 9 Qg3 and then only gives 9 Nxc2+, 9... Qe7, and 9...exf4 for Black, but if he had used Play 1 e4 e5!, he would have realized that 9...0-0! is ok for Black!

These are just 2 examples of many more i can show!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #80 - 07/15/08 at 15:20:56
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Bibs wrote on 07/15/08 at 15:18:03:
Anon just appears a leeching curmudgeon who is best ignored.


But who hath the will power to not striketh thy enter key?  Not me.

Easier stated than done, eh?  Wink
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #79 - 07/15/08 at 15:18:03
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Dont think any posts of anon can be taken seriously.
Clearly a wind-up.

A bored kid who takes perverse pleasure in wasting people's time. Probably spends any non-school, non-chess time vandalising park benches and graffitiing bus stops.

Best if people on forums balance their own queries with helpful responses where they are able to contribute usefully. Anon just appears a leeching curmudgeon who is best ignored.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #78 - 07/15/08 at 14:22:21
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Schaakhamster wrote on 07/15/08 at 14:00:31:
Repertoire books, by definition, make no claim on completeness.



To be honest, i'd be extremely scared if they did... can you imagine even for a second how many pages such a book would entail?! try 60,000 + pages (who knows how many authors and computers it would require)... and lets not even attach the price tag! By the time I get through reading it, maybe I could pay off my loan I took out to buy it! And of course by this point all my opponents have read it too... so it turned out the Ruy Lopez was the only non refuted e4 opening and we are playing the same line again and again cause we both know the ponziani is refuted.... Wink

anyways, in all seriousness I can't imagine why an author would set out to make such 'completeness' at best if it were achieved... in a few years certain analysis will not stand up - the nature of such books. I prefer my opening books to go over the main themes and perhaps express why mainlines are mainlines. It gives me ideas and I understand how better players play the opening. That is it. Sure sure if there is some new popular move out there I want to hear about it (if only in passing) but nothing more is generally required... I can go look it up and research it for myself.

sooo with that... if you took the amount of time anon that you have spent writing your posts (and undoubtedly checking for responses) i'm sure you could have written your own ponziani Nd2 chapter by now!  Cheesy
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #77 - 07/15/08 at 14:00:31
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/15/08 at 12:34:25:
To be fair to anonymous, he does have a bit of a point.

As I see it, the great value of Marin's books is that you get to see a very strong player (by the standards of most authors) explaining with honesty and erudition how both players' understanding in general of an opening, and his own, have developed. To many people that is inspiring and educational in itself, and makes his books 'more than an openings book', and gives them a value considerably higher than most such tomes.

Other people do not value this quality so highly, presumably including anonymous. And he is right that as openings encyclopaedias these books are no better than very acceptable; on a par with Emms and only a little better than Davies, I would say. Looked at purely from that point of view, anonymous is perhaps right that in an ideal world a second edition would have looked at DW, chesspub and Greet (leaving aside Quality's generosity in making the second edition available free). But that isn't the chief merit of the books.


then he should buy those. I don't think that your starting out d4 (an excellent book by the way) has any ambitions to be one and neither does this book. Repertoire books, by definition, make no claim on completeness.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #76 - 07/15/08 at 12:34:25
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To be fair to anonymous, he does have a bit of a point.

As I see it, the great value of Marin's books is that you get to see a very strong player (by the standards of most authors) explaining with honesty and erudition how both players' understanding in general of an opening, and his own, have developed. To many people that is inspiring and educational in itself, and makes his books 'more than an openings book', and gives them a value considerably higher than most such tomes.

Other people do not value this quality so highly, presumably including anonymous. And he is right that as openings encyclopaedias these books are no better than very acceptable; on a par with Emms and only a little better than Davies, I would say. Looked at purely from that point of view, anonymous is perhaps right that in an ideal world a second edition would have looked at DW, chesspub and Greet (leaving aside Quality's generosity in making the second edition available free). But that isn't the chief merit of the books.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #75 - 07/15/08 at 12:17:17
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well for one Marin is not from the UK and therefor it could very well be he hasn't read these books or he doesn't find them usefull for writing his own repertoire book. Marin has used a lot of none-English books, perhaps we should slate Emms and Davies for not using them  Shocked.

I think Marin has writen an excellent book in which he isn't afraid to go his own way and do his own thinking.  A

nonymous his complaints are quite farfetched. I mean: ponziani and the center game for crying out loud! there is a reason that they aren't played in supertournaments (Which doesn't mean they aren't playable).

  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #74 - 07/15/08 at 11:58:28
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Why on earth WOULD Marin use sources which offer different repertoires for Black to his? I can see a case for checking popular White books so that readers are given suitable replies to the methods recommended therein, but what Davies and Emms have to do with Marin's book I don't see.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #73 - 07/15/08 at 02:19:25
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drkodos wrote on 07/10/08 at 20:57:24:
No one ever bans the Village Idiot.  


the village idiot is the one who makes the rest of us look smart!  Grin
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #72 - 07/15/08 at 01:12:08
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Quote:
Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/14/08 at 16:28:00:
I apologise Mr. A., I don't have the time to write your book for you. You asked about 8.Nd2, I answered extensively. Don't think I will answer whatever you can come up with for this reason.

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess


Aagaard continues to make excuses and not answer my question on why Marin didn't use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc!


I'm guessing, Anonymous, that this must be your first book.  I don't suppose you would treat us to a preview of your bibliography?  Or, indeed, any analysis that will be novel?  Anyone lined up to publish?  I hope your reviewers appreciate your books merits...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #71 - 07/14/08 at 22:20:14
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/14/08 at 16:28:00:
I apologise Mr. A., I don't have the time to write your book for you. You asked about 8.Nd2, I answered extensively. Don't think I will answer whatever you can come up with for this reason.

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess


Aagaard continues to make excuses and not answer my question on why Marin didn't use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #70 - 07/14/08 at 19:38:10
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drkodos wrote on 07/10/08 at 20:57:24:
Only pablum is purposely perpetuated when passionately polemic and highly petulant preaching is paralyzed.


My I'm speachless!!!  Are you going on some really heavy stuff, drkodos?
Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #69 - 07/14/08 at 16:28:00
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I apologise Mr. A., I don't have the time to write your book for you. You asked about 8.Nd2, I answered extensively. Don't think I will answer whatever you can come up with for this reason.

Jacob Aagaard, Quality Chess
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #68 - 07/11/08 at 10:29:04
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Hmmmm, I found it!!!

He did it on purpose to reach 100 posts!!!

That must be the only logical explanation
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #67 - 07/11/08 at 07:27:49
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Pity
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #66 - 07/11/08 at 06:53:40
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Phew!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #65 - 07/11/08 at 03:23:27
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I have finally decided to give this post a rest!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #64 - 07/10/08 at 23:47:22
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Quote:
Aagaard, why didn't you answer my questions?

Aagaard, why do you refuse to answer these questions???!!!


Grin Grin Grin

Anonymous is born a few decades too late. He would have been perfect as a victim of Laurel and Hardy.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #63 - 07/10/08 at 22:02:05
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Aagaard, why didn't you answer my questions?

This line of the Ponziani isn't the only line that Marin didn't address. Here are two other lines that should have been addressed in the update!

A) In the update to A Spanish Repertoire for Black, why doesn't Marin adress this line of the Worrall Attack, 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7 12 d5 Bd7 13 b3 Ne8 14.Nbd2 g6 15.Nf1 Ng7 16.Bh6 f6 now Marin only gives 17 h3 but gives Andrew Greet in his book Play the Ruy Lopez recommends 17 a4 or 17 N3d2. 

B) Andrew Greet refutes Marin's recommendation against the center game in his book Dangerous Weapons: 1 e4 e5? Why doesn't Marin Address that? Don't try to tell me it isn't an important line!

Why didn't Marin use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc? Most other authors use these most important sources. If Marin had used these sources in the first place, he probably wouldn't have had to come out with a second edition!

Aagaard, why do you refuse to answer these questions???!!!


Anonymous, drop it, for crying out loud.  Enough already.  This is a collaborative forum, not a star chamber. 

When a GM like Marin talks, I shut up and listen.  I don't quibble or haggle.  Take what Marin says for what it's worth, and it's worth a great deal.

Play chess, you know?  Or don't.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #62 - 07/10/08 at 21:22:42
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Aagaard, why didn't you answer my questions?

This line of the Ponziani isn't the only line that Marin didn't address. Here are two other lines that should have been addressed in the update!

A) In the update to A Spanish Repertoire for Black, why doesn't Marin adress this line of the Worrall Attack, 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 Qe2 b5 6 Bb3 Be7 7 0-0 0-0 8 c3 d6 9 Rd1 Na5 10 Bc2 c5 11 d4 Qc7 12 d5 Bd7 13 b3 Ne8 14.Nbd2 g6 15.Nf1 Ng7 16.Bh6 f6 now Marin only gives 17 h3 but gives Andrew Greet in his book Play the Ruy Lopez recommends 17 a4 or 17 N3d2.  

B) Andrew Greet refutes Marin's recommendation against the center game in his book Dangerous Weapons: 1 e4 e5? Why doesn't Marin Address that? Don't try to tell me it isn't an important line!

Why didn't Marin use sources like Play 1 e4 e5, Play the Open Games as Black, etc? Most other authors use these most important sources. If Marin had used these sources in the first place, he probably wouldn't have had to come out with a second edition!

Aagaard, why do you refuse to answer these questions???!!!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #61 - 07/10/08 at 20:57:24
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Michael Ayton wrote on 07/10/08 at 09:20:00:
Quote:
About the suggestion of banning Mr. Ano, look at this before you take a stand http://xkcd.com/386/


Like it! Dry!  Grin



No one ever bans the Village Idiot. 


Only pablum is purposely perpetuated when passionately polemic and highly petulant preaching is paralyzed.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #60 - 07/10/08 at 13:15:08
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 07/10/08 at 08:49:02:
I suspect that anonymeous is my wife. When the reason why something is unacceptable falls apart, the conclusion of it being unacceptable stays, but the way of reasoning changes continuously. In this way you can never win the argument, because for every answer you come up with a new fault appears.

I thought the original question was fair, even though the tone was a bit over the top.

It is true that Marin was getting remarks from us about what was important on ChessPublishing for the 2nd edition of the book, and that we made a conscious decision to omit 8.Nd2 on feeling.

However, and I really want to stress this, the 2nd edition was first and foremost a reprint. We were out of stock and asked Mihail to make a few corrections. He come back with 50 pages! Thinking of how much ill feeling we got from this - even though you can download it all for free on our website - I find it disrespectful to call Marin lazy.

About the suggestion of banning Mr. Ano, look at this before you take a stand http://xkcd.com/386/

We will continue to help our writers to write the best possible chess books as well as listen to our readers opinions about how this is done, but in the end we will always go with what we reckon is best.

Jacob Aagaard


Actually, this might be my wife.   Undecided  Sorry.

XKCD is classic!
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #59 - 07/10/08 at 09:20:00
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Quote:
About the suggestion of banning Mr. Ano, look at this before you take a stand http://xkcd.com/386/


Like it! Dry!  Grin
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #58 - 07/10/08 at 08:49:02
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I suspect that anonymeous is my wife. When the reason why something is unacceptable falls apart, the conclusion of it being unacceptable stays, but the way of reasoning changes continuously. In this way you can never win the argument, because for every answer you come up with a new fault appears.

I thought the original question was fair, even though the tone was a bit over the top.

It is true that Marin was getting remarks from us about what was important on ChessPublishing for the 2nd edition of the book, and that we made a conscious decision to omit 8.Nd2 on feeling.

However, and I really want to stress this, the 2nd edition was first and foremost a reprint. We were out of stock and asked Mihail to make a few corrections. He come back with 50 pages! Thinking of how much ill feeling we got from this - even though you can download it all for free on our website - I find it disrespectful to call Marin lazy.

About the suggestion of banning Mr. Ano, look at this before you take a stand http://xkcd.com/386/

We will continue to help our writers to write the best possible chess books as well as listen to our readers opinions about how this is done, but in the end we will always go with what we reckon is best.

Jacob Aagaard
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #57 - 07/09/08 at 23:01:20
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I infer that you (Anonymous, that is) refuse my challenge.

To your credit, you probably did the right thing. Looking back at your most recent posts, when you do post chess analysis, it tends to be quotes from other books, without any individual analysis of your own (not that I have anything against this).

Excessive repetition of the same point may work on Uncyclopedia, but I strongly recommend you avoid it on this Forum.

And good luck with your repertoire books on the Ruy Lopez and Slav Smiley.
  
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Re: A Test for Anonymous
Reply #56 - 07/09/08 at 22:30:22
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Markovich wrote on 07/09/08 at 12:11:13:
Regius wrote on 07/09/08 at 05:27:34:
Hello dear Anonymous,

I have a challenge for you: I want you to post your analyses of the Gajewski Variation of the Main Line Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 d5) in full detail on this forum. They should be as detailed as possible, and don't just make the analysis a database dump - you should explain why you think White or Black is better in a particular position.

Any of the ChessPublishing Forum members are allowed to point out improvements over your analysis and any ommissions that you made it your analyses. And we are allowed to repeat any of your ommissions in consecutive posts, just so that you get the message.

If you are able to prove that there are no major ommissions in your analyses within 72 hours of posting your analyses, then maybe we will consider what you have to say in the future.





I propose that we lay off this guy.  He has a point, which he made with perhaps excessive persistence.  It's a free country, and this guy's entitled to his opinion.


Thanks you Markovich
  
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Re: A Test for Anonymous
Reply #55 - 07/09/08 at 12:11:13
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Regius wrote on 07/09/08 at 05:27:34:
Hello dear Anonymous,

I have a challenge for you: I want you to post your analyses of the Gajewski Variation of the Main Line Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 d5) in full detail on this forum. They should be as detailed as possible, and don't just make the analysis a database dump - you should explain why you think White or Black is better in a particular position.

Any of the ChessPublishing Forum members are allowed to point out improvements over your analysis and any ommissions that you made it your analyses. And we are allowed to repeat any of your ommissions in consecutive posts, just so that you get the message.

If you are able to prove that there are no major ommissions in your analyses within 72 hours of posting your analyses, then maybe we will consider what you have to say in the future.





I propose that we lay off this guy.  He has a point, which he made with perhaps excessive persistence.  It's a free country, and this guy's entitled to his opinion.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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A Test for Anonymous
Reply #54 - 07/09/08 at 05:27:34
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Hello dear Anonymous,

I have a challenge for you: I want you to post your analyses of the Gajewski Variation of the Main Line Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 d5) in full detail on this forum. They should be as detailed as possible, and don't just make the analysis a database dump - you should explain why you think White or Black is better in a particular position.

Any of the ChessPublishing Forum members are allowed to point out improvements over your analysis and any ommissions that you made it your analyses. And we are allowed to repeat any of your ommissions in consecutive posts, just so that you get the message.

If you are able to prove that there are no major ommissions in your analyses within 72 hours of posting your analyses, then maybe we will consider what you have to say in the future.



  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #53 - 07/09/08 at 03:06:35
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thats it, i will play the ponziani and write a book too!   Grin  it will be the hottest opening, the greatest discovery since e4!
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #52 - 07/09/08 at 02:47:56
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8.Nd2 is such a horrible omission that everyone is rushing to play the Ponziani against Marin!



Oh, wait...that's right, no one has played it against him for some reason!?!? That's weird. Especially since it is the refutation of the whole line!  Cheesy
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #51 - 07/08/08 at 12:33:15
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Yes, but does it mention the all-important 8.Nd2 ?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #50 - 07/08/08 at 04:53:09
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Markovich wrote on 07/07/08 at 12:03:15:
SorenJensen wrote on 07/04/08 at 18:32:47:
Anonymous reaction really is most peculiar.

He/she gets good advise on how he/she can benefit from the situation by doing some independent thinking (Mnb's suggestions for example) and even gets feedback from the publishers but to little avail - the individual remains irritated that not every move under the sun was covered.

At this stage I'm beginning to wonder if anonymous posts maybe should not be taken seriously but are meant as a parody of an increasingly common mindset


If so, it has been a monumental waste of the time of so many people who took his complaints seriously and spent time replying to him.


I believe the complaints were serious or at the very least semi serious.

There comes a point in every chessplayers' life when book moves end and independent thought begins or should begin.

By the way Chessbase Magazine # 124 is offering a repertoire with the ponziani, so I guess its time for those impulsive buyers to open the wallets and loosen the purse strings.

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #49 - 07/07/08 at 12:12:49
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Yes, I did wonder myself at the outset if A's posts were parodic, and for that reason was never liable to respond to them.
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #48 - 07/07/08 at 12:03:15
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SorenJensen wrote on 07/04/08 at 18:32:47:
Anonymous reaction really is most peculiar.

He/she gets good advise on how he/she can benefit from the situation by doing some independent thinking (Mnb's suggestions for example) and even gets feedback from the publishers but to little avail - the individual remains irritated that not every move under the sun was covered.

At this stage I'm beginning to wonder if anonymous posts maybe should not be taken seriously but are meant as a parody of an increasingly common mindset


If so, it has been a monumental waste of the time of so many people who took his complaints seriously and spent time replying to him.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #47 - 07/07/08 at 08:40:52
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He's doing the research himself as you can see from above  Grin
Don't let me started on the definition of "research"

4 pages of posts fighting on a line of the ponziani and its exclusion from a book!!

Anonymous - but not so anonymous as the other anonymous people - seems quite obsessed with it.. He may be overdoing it a little bit, specially by referring to known chess personalities without a sign of gentlemanship - e.g Aagard!! tell me why Marin did not do that.. (that sounds like stuff I heard in the army or something) - but otherwise he's just reasking a question that he feels is left unanswered..

I don't agree with him but he does not deserve a ban.. Only encouragement to do try finding answers by himself
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #46 - 07/06/08 at 00:59:52
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This makes some sense.  I hire people to do my research, though, or I do it myself...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #45 - 07/05/08 at 22:11:15
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My guess is that Anonymous is writing a repertoire book for black with the Slav and the Ruy Lopez as main weapons and furthermore dealing with every white deviation imaginable. Below is a small selection of Anonymous' posts. What do others make of it?

Quote:
What does Eric Schiller recommend against the London System in his book, Complete Defense to Queen's Pawn Openings?

What does Alexander Khalifman recommend against the London System in his book Opening for Black According to Karpov?

What do John Watson and Eric Schiller recommend against the accelerated London System, 1 d4 d5 2 Bf4, in their book How to Succeed in the Queen's Pawn Openings?

After 1 Nc3 Nf6, What does Bill Wall recommend in his his book, 1 Nc3 Dunst Opening?

What does Gary Lane recommend against 1 Nc3 in his book Ideas Behind Modern Chess Openings: Black?
What does Jacob Aagaard recommend agaisnt 1 Nc3 in his book Meeting 1 d4?

After 1 Nf3 d5 2 c4 c6 3 g3, what does the book recommend against 3...Bg4 and 3...Bf5. Also, after 3...Nf6 4 Bg2 what does the book recommend against 4...dxc4, 4...Bg4, and 4...Bf5?

How did 1 d4 d5 2 c4 c6 become known as the Slav Defense?

How did 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 become known as the Ruy Lopez and Spanish Opening?
« Last Edit: 07/06/08 at 00:03:36 by linksspringer »  
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MNb
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #44 - 07/05/08 at 21:29:53
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64 worst omissions of Marin.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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HgMan
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #43 - 07/05/08 at 20:35:29
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I'll bite: what is the book about?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #42 - 07/05/08 at 19:09:13
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Quote:
If Marin had used the most important sources like Chesspublishing.com, which I am using for my book,


Wow
  
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #41 - 07/05/08 at 19:05:04
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Wow, I am shocked that most poeple disagree with me. If you are going to come out with a 2nd revised edition, I thought it would have been best to cover all lines that need updating. I doubt Marin even knows about 8 Nd2. If Marin had used the most important sources like Chesspublishing.com, which I am using for my book, Marin would have known about 8 Nd2 in the Ponziani and could have included it in the book!  

This line of the Ponziani isn't the only line that Marin doesn't address in his 2nd edition! IM Andrew Greet refutes Marin's recommendation against the Center Game in his book Dangerous Weapons: 1 e4 e5! Why doesn't Marin address that in his 2nd edition???!!!
  
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MNb
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #40 - 07/05/08 at 15:38:46
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Bibs wrote on 07/05/08 at 01:49:58:
1. Don't take seriously. 2. Ignore. 3.Ban?

1.Yes.
2.Sometimes it is necessary to show that contributors like Anonymous are isolated exceptions. This thread is such a case. But usually I ignore him indeed.
3. No.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Beating The Open Games 2nd Edition
Reply #39 - 07/05/08 at 14:27:34