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Normal Topic 6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued) (Read 2136 times)
Gerbarts
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Re: 6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued)
Reply #4 - 07/01/08 at 18:41:04
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Indeed, theory changes pretty fast! Although perhaps I'm not the one to say since I've only been around for a few years.

Regarding b6 or b5. Perhaps you don't mind explaning the different ideas with these two moves. In the game I posted above, I don't think I would want to be black personally since I don't like the charachter of the game. But ofcourse that's just personal. Without having looked at b5 I would imagine it leads to more interesting games. As soon as I get time I will analyse both of them in this thread from whites point of view and post some interesting games.
  
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chk
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Re: 6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued)
Reply #3 - 07/01/08 at 08:09:24
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I'm afraid I cannot help you with 9.Kh1. I currently examine answering with b5 or 9. b6 a la Gelfand in order to get the Bishop in the long diagonal on time. On the other hand, in practical games I never really minded going for Be6-Bc4 (i.e. allowing f5). The other replies may be OK too. Don't know what to say, this is still work in progress for me..

(parenthesis: when I first studied concrete variations in the Najdorf in the early 90s this was just a mere sideline - theory changes fast isn't it?  Shocked)
  

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Gerbarts
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Re: 6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued)
Reply #2 - 06/30/08 at 18:03:20
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chk wrote on 06/30/08 at 10:37:54:
In the older thread you mentioned I give you my opinion why it is often a good idea to postpone the development of Nb8 (i.e. should the Knight be posted on Nbd7 or Nc6 - that depends on White's play and is usually easier to decide later in the opening). Hence, usually you develop Bc8 before Nb8. Moreover, Bc8 has 2 good options (Be6 or Bb7) and this also depends on White's play, so usually Black starts with Be7 in order to retain Bc8's both options.
(a small parenthesis here: I myself prefer to postpone Be7 only if I need to start a quick attack on the Q-side or castle there, e.g.: Be6/Rc8/Qc7, while holding back Be7 and O-O for a while)
Here is an important variation where b5! and Bb7 works well for Black and proves to be a good counter to early f4 by White:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7
8.O-O O-O 9.f4?! b5! 10.a4 Bb7 (notice how now that e4 cannot be defended with f3, Bb7 gains in power)

Now, on the point why the prophylactic move Kh1 is oftenly played:
Sooner or later White goes for the f2-f4 advance and thus exposes its King. Black may take advantage of that in order to gain a tempo, e.g. Black plays d5 to break open the centre and has the time to defend his/her pawn by using the c5 square as a pivot for his Queen (Qc7-c5+ & the Q suddenly controls d5). Moreover, if White is given the time to unleash a K-side attack, he/she may now use g2-g4 as well (this is a bit more far-stretched). Notice also the following:
White usually has the following plans:
a) quick a4-a5 to clamp Black's Q-side
b) quick f4-f5 to attack the centre and the K-side
c) 9. Be3 first to keep both options above open
d) 8. Be3 to also have the option of O-O-O and a pawn storm in the K-side (the Dolmatov System)
e) similar plans but with the Bishop developed on Bg5 (a hybrid between the 6. Bg5 and the 6. Be2 variations)
f) early Nd5 plans
g) early g4 plans (suicide if you ask me)
So, with 9. Kh1 White plays a rather useful, prophylactic  move and waits to see first how Black is going to develop before deciding on a4/f4/Be3/Bg5/Nd5 etc. If you need my opinion, 9. Be3 is a more principled move, but 9. Kh1 is an OK prophylactic move in the same sense as with the Yugoslav attack in the Dragon and other Open Sicilians where White goes for O-O-O and usually continues with Kc1-b1.
 Cool

[edit: I want also to mention another important factor behind 9.Kh1: it may gain a tempo on the f2-f4 plan as the preparatory Be3 is not strictly needed now and if Black goes for e5xf4 (the usual response btw) White recaptures with Bc1xf4 and thus has gained a tempo on the Be3 lines (which is spent on Kh1).]


Good explanation, thanks! I definetely see the point with both 7...Be7 and 9.Kh1 now. 9.Be3 as you said is probably principally better but I believe 9.Kh1 is good for various reasons. For one as you said it may discourages black from developing with 9...Be6 which is the principle way of developing against 9.Be3 In that sense I prefer 9.Kh1 above 9.Be3


After 9.Kh1 Be6 10.f4 it seems black has two responses



A) 10...exf4 11.Bxf4

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In this position it seems black wants to play on the queenside where his half-open file is and would therefore like to play b5 at some time if he could. However, on 11...b5 I think white plays 12.Bf3 (the idea with 6.Be2).

From here on the games I've looked at seem to continue either with 11...Nc6 12.Qe1 Rc8 13.Rd1 with both sides placing their pieces logically, black plays for b5-b4 and white plays on the kingside with Nb3-d4-f4 etc.

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Other games see black go 11...Nc6 12.Qe1 Ne8 with the idea, as I see it, to prevent whites pieceplay by exchanging minor pieces and getting an equal position. Do you think I am correct in this view?

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The other idea after 9.Kh1 Be6 10.f4 is

B) 10...Qc7

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Here white gets the possibility to play 11.f5 Bc4 12.g4 and whites objective seems clear.
  
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chk
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Re: 6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued)
Reply #1 - 06/30/08 at 10:37:54
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In the older thread you mentioned I give you my opinion why it is often a good idea to postpone the development of Nb8 (i.e. should the Knight be posted on Nbd7 or Nc6 - that depends on White's play and is usually easier to decide later in the opening). Hence, usually you develop Bc8 before Nb8. Moreover, Bc8 has 2 good options (Be6 or Bb7) and this also depends on White's play, so usually Black starts with Be7 in order to retain Bc8's both options.
(a small parenthesis here: I myself prefer to postpone Be7 only if I need to start a quick attack on the Q-side or castle there, e.g.: Be6/Rc8/Qc7, while holding back Be7 and O-O for a while)
Here is an important variation where b5! and Bb7 works well for Black and proves to be a good counter to early f4 by White:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7
8.O-O O-O 9.f4?! b5! 10.a4 Bb7 (notice how now that e4 cannot be defended with f3, Bb7 gains in power)

Now, on the point why the prophylactic move Kh1 is oftenly played:
Sooner or later White goes for the f2-f4 advance and thus exposes its King. Black may take advantage of that in order to gain a tempo, e.g. Black plays d5 to break open the centre and has the time to defend his/her pawn by using the c5 square as a pivot for his Queen (Qc7-c5+ & the Q suddenly controls d5). Moreover, if White is given the time to unleash a K-side attack, he/she may now use g2-g4 as well (this is a bit more far-stretched). Notice also the following:
White usually has the following plans:
a) quick a4-a5 to clamp Black's Q-side
b) quick f4-f5 to attack the centre and the K-side
c) 9. Be3 first to keep both options above open
d) 8. Be3 to also have the option of O-O-O and a pawn storm in the K-side (the Dolmatov System)
e) similar plans but with the Bishop developed on Bg5 (a hybrid between the 6. Bg5 and the 6. Be2 variations)
f) early Nd5 plans
g) early g4 plans (suicide if you ask me)
So, with 9. Kh1 White plays a rather useful, prophylactic  move and waits to see first how Black is going to develop before deciding on a4/f4/Be3/Bg5/Nd5 etc. If you need my opinion, 9. Be3 is a more principled move, but 9. Kh1 is an OK prophylactic move in the same sense as with the Yugoslav attack in the Dragon and other Open Sicilians where White goes for O-O-O and usually continues with Kc1-b1.
 Cool

[edit: I want also to mention another important factor behind 9.Kh1: it may gain a tempo on the f2-f4 plan as the preparatory Be3 is not strictly needed now and if Black goes for e5xf4 (the usual response btw) White recaptures with Bc1xf4 and thus has gained a tempo on the Be3 lines (which is spent on Kh1).]
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Gerbarts
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6.Be2 against Scheve & Najd (continued)
06/29/08 at 16:25:43
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Hi everyone!

A while ago I started a thread     http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1209511608    about playing against the Classical Scheveningen which arises from the Najdorf move order 6.Be2 e6. The thread proved very useful for me and was hopefully to help to some other people trying to learn the same positions.

However, this is only part of the story since there is also the Najdorf 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 to consider, which seems more common than 6...e6

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In this position play usually continues 7...Be7 8.0-0 0-0 According to chessgames.com 7...Be7 was played 1400 times while 7...Be6 as the second move was only played 130 times.

My own explanation to this is that after 7...Be6 8.f4 Qc7 9.f5 Bc4 10.Bxc4 Qxc4 black has decreased his control over the light squares and perhaps white can get a good endgame with d5 weakness and good bishop after 11.Qe2

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White can also play 8.f4 Qc7 9.g4 but I don't know what to say about this. I think I would have gone for the above position instead since it's less complicated, assuming that white is in fact better in that position.

So, back to the mainline with 7...Be7 8.0-0 0-0 Now the question is whether to play 9.Be3 or 9.Kh1. Those are the two most common replies but I don't see why there wouldn't be any other good alternatives in this position aswell.

One possible continuation after 9.Kh1 is 9...b6 10.Be3 Bb7 11.f3

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By accident I stumbled across the game IM Bengt Lindberg - FM Victor Nithander in this variation which was played today, Sunday, in the Swedish Championships.

The game continued: 11...Nbd7 12.a4 Rc8 13.Qd2 Rc7 14.Rfd1 Qa8 15.Nd5 seems unnecessary at the moment since black is not threatening to push d5. It seems to me he is effectively giving away his advantage in the backward d-pawn:

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15...Nxd5 16.exd5 f5 17.c4 preparing to play a5 if allowed and protecting d5 one more time. It does however look like white is less flexible now and perhaps giving blacks knight good squares on the queenside aswell.

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17...a5 18.f4 Bf6 19.fxe5 Bxe5 20.Nd4 Nc5 21.Qc2 Rcf7 22.Bf3 f4 23.Bf2 Bxd4 24.Bxd4 Bc8 25.Re1:

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25...Bf5 26.Qc3 Qc8 27.b3 Qd8 28.Ra2 1/2-1/2

What makes me wonder in these lines is what point has 9.Kh1?? In a lot of other games with 9.Kh1 I can't immediately see how Kh1 is necessary. Perhaps someone can elaborate and explain how white plays for a win in these positions. If one looks at statistics it shows that there is a high degree of draws in this variation and on the whole white does not score better than black. I'm not too happy about this and would greatly consider playing any other moves than 9.Be3 or 9.Kh1 if it gives some winning chances.

Hope to make this thread as instructional and valuable as the last one.

Gerbarts
« Last Edit: 06/30/08 at 04:30:39 by Gerbarts »  
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