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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System? (Read 3581 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #11 - 07/04/08 at 14:39:22
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Thanks guys!

I ordered some of the books today
  
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #10 - 07/04/08 at 08:10:52
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Let's come back to A. Soltis classic "pawn structure in chess" which explains the typical plans in the open with the Be2 move. A great book and not only because the Open Sicilian section.

I like very much the "quality" of the repertoire suggested in Starting Out 1.e4. Which by the way is really demanding ("exigent").

I think that the only true alternative to the open is 2.c3. If you play 2.Nf3 you will have, more or less, the same amount of work that in the open.



  

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MNb
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #9 - 07/03/08 at 16:18:06
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The only book I know about the 6.g3 variations is the Davies one. As far as I know no book has been written on the various 6.Be2 variations. Any good book on the Dragon of course seriously investigates the Classical. Further it must be a good idea to check the volumes of NIC. I remember a good one by Gallagher on the Nd5 sacrifice in the Classical Scheveningen.
  

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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #8 - 07/03/08 at 14:27:58
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bragesjo wrote on 07/03/08 at 12:29:18:
I am quite intersting to change several parts of my repertoure to a Be2 Be3 based reperortour but I do not know if there are any books on the subject?


McDonald had quite a few Be2/Be3 lines in "Starting Out: 1.e4" but you are looking for something more advanced I guess.

The Classical Scheveningen logically forms the core of such a repertoire since it can be reached from the Taimanov, Classical and Najdorf as well. I like the following sources:

Pritchett: Starting Out: Sicilian Scheveningen gives both a black repertoire with the Scheveningen and a White repertoire against it with the Classical.
Ksieski: Sizilianisch mit d6 und e6 (2 volumes, but only the first one on "Middlegame practice" is still in print)
Jansa: Dymanic Chess Strategy has a nice chapter on the Classical Scheveningen, with strategic exercises throughout.

For other Be2/Be3 lines I think you will just have to consult specialized sources on those Sicilians.
  

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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #7 - 07/03/08 at 13:24:52
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Regius wrote on 07/03/08 at 12:41:12:
Regarding the Open Sicilian, note that White does not have to use the move order 2.Nf3 and 3.d4 to reach an Open Sicilian. White can also use the move orders 2.Nf3, 3.Nc3 and 4.d4, 2.Nc3, 3.Nf3 and 4.d4, 2.Nc3, 3.Nge2 and 4.d4, or even 2.Ne2 and 3.d4. Note that the alternative move order 2.d4 cd4 3.Nf3 is dubious because of 3...a6! 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5, with a good version of the O'Kelly Sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 and now the dubious 3.d4?! cd4 4.Nd4).

Didn't Fischer play his only Morra Gambit against the O'Kelly? I believe the game went 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3.
  
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #6 - 07/03/08 at 12:41:12
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Regarding the Open Sicilian, note that White does not have to use the move order 2.Nf3 and 3.d4 to reach an Open Sicilian. White can also use the move orders 2.Nf3, 3.Nc3 and 4.d4, 2.Nc3, 3.Nf3 and 4.d4, 2.Nc3, 3.Nge2 and 4.d4, or even 2.Ne2 and 3.d4. Note that the alternative move order 2.d4 cd4 3.Nf3 is dubious because of 3...a6! 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5, with a good version of the O'Kelly Sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 a6 and now the dubious 3.d4?! cd4 4.Nd4).
  
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bragesjo
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #5 - 07/03/08 at 12:29:18
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I am quite intersting to change several parts of my repertoure to a Be2 Be3 based reperortour but I do not know if there are any books on the subject?
  
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Marno
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #4 - 07/02/08 at 16:43:48
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Quote:
What I think is that you are about to make the same mistake as I did 20-25 years ago.
So if you want a simpler alternative - simpler in the long run I mean - turn to the Open Siclians.
...begin with a g3, a Be2 or a Bc4/0-0 based repertoire or even a mixed bag.


I get and appreciate what you are saying.  What resource(s) would you recommend for the Bc4/0-0 lines?
  
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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #3 - 07/02/08 at 01:40:31
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Marno wrote on 07/01/08 at 01:03:16:
Like so many others reluctant to play the main line Open Sicilians I have been trying to decide on a simpler alternative.
What do you chess-minded folks think of these things?    


What I think is that you are about to make the same mistake as I did 20-25 years ago. I have played the Open Sicilian for one year, got the opportunity in four games and decided it was not worth the effort. Now I know that I would have saved myself a lot of work if I had kept on playing 2.Nf3 and 3.d4! Trying to prove and keep various Anti-Sicilians playable and interesting in the end has demanded much more effort.
So if you want a simpler alternative - simpler in the long run I mean - turn to the Open Siclians. Avoid the topical stuff - Jugoslav Attack, Richter-Rauser, Poisoned Pawn etc. and begin with a g3, a Be2 or a Bc4/0-0 based repertoire or even a mixed bag. They do not demand more time than the Grand-Prix, the Bb5-systems and the 2.c3 or 3.c3 variations. They are easy to maintain and not without venom. Against the Svesjnikov I advise 7.Nd5.
  

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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #2 - 07/01/08 at 08:27:56
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I would too go for 2. Nf3, my main reasoning being that if you decide in the future to switch to some of the open Sicilians you can do that gradually (i.e. first against 2. .. d6, then against the 2. .. Nc6 complex etc.).

The 2. Nc3 sicilians are only good if you plan to never use the Maroczy Bind (c2-c4) against open sicilians, which is a shame, since it is rather effective against some important lines (Acc. Dragon, Taimanov, etc.).
  

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Re: Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
Reply #1 - 07/01/08 at 06:38:31
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Hi Marno,
The Best repertoire would be all open.  The second best might be 1.e4 c5 2Nf3 d6 open and vs 2...Nc6 Rosalimo and vs 2...e6, 2....g6 ect play 3.c3. 
I would play the Grand Priz before the Closed as I think it is "sharper" and is highly recommened by GM ROman Dzidshavili and GM Gawain Jones. I recommend going through Gawain Jones's games as they are great fun and help teach this opening well.  He also has a good book on the Grand Priz as well.  However with an early e6 by black it is good idea to play open sicilian as e6 leads to a good grand Priz line for black.  Gawain plays open sicilian vs it.  You can check out the thread by Gawain on here where he talks about the Grand priz. 

Also 2b3 has been played by GM Gelashvili.  Check out his games and there are threads on Chesspublishing.com about this opening.  Nigel short has used it and Andrew martin has written about it. 

Tiviakov likes 2.c3 and i think it is good for active positional players. 

i would shy away from closed as there are more interesting things to play like 2.c3 or Grand priz (though some lines you need to play g3 see Gawain Jones games and book). 

Also you can play 1.e4 2 Nf3 3.Bd3 like IM Danny Kopec!  he has a good DVD about this line.  he has used it vs GMs and recommends it. 

Then as you know there is the e knights sicilian.  GM Davies has a DVD on it but I have not watched it.  Though I have thought about getting it/. 

So there you go.  Play though games of Kopec, Gawain Jones, Gelashvili, Tiviakov before going to the first 2 recommmendations.  If you don't like these players games then you have to bite the bullet and play open or at least the rossalimo and Alapin combo and open vs d6 by black. 
good luck and let me know what you decide and why!,
kindly,
ZATARA
  
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Marno
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Nc3 or Nf3-based Anti-Sicilian System?
07/01/08 at 01:03:16
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Like so many others reluctant to play the main line Open Sicilians I have been trying to decide on a simpler alternative (other than 1 d4 hah). I came down to comparing two systemic openings, the "Nc3 Sicilians" and the "Nf3 Sicilians".

With 1 e4 c5 2 Nc3 come options of the Closed Sicilian, the Grand Prix Attack, a "back door Rossolimo" (what someone nicknamed 2...Nc6 3 Bb5), or the Two Knights Sicilian.

With 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 are options of a somewhat wider Bb5 system, the King's Indian Attack, and a sort of delayed Alapin with 2...g6 3 c3.

After some time looking at these two "systems" based on which knight comes out first, it looks to me like the 2 Nf3 options are a little more solid.

What do you chess-minded folks think of these things?
  
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