Macca wrote on 08/04/08 at 07:32:59:


Yes, don't listen to Prié when he says that 4. Qd3 is probably best ...

So, 4.f3 it is then.

Always follow your instincts!

Isn't the A-Z of the Veresov already covered on ChessPublishing? Eric considers 4 e3 to be a little dubious, if I understand correctly.

I wasn't going to join in as there's an older thread on early moves in the Veresov. However, as I'm bored at "work": 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nbd7 4.Qd3 is OK for White - after B plays e6 then dxe in response W's e4 we have a French Burn, hardly dangerous for White even after the slightly odd Qd3. 

4.f3 is more interesting though, and although 4...c6 with ...e5 in mind is a good response, so long as White is aware of dangerous Black ideas such as ...Ba3 there are some double-edged variations not in the books which White can employ that, although objectively may be a little better for Black, are so complicated that the better prepared player (White!) has good chances of an advantage. Don't expect to see them at Hector's level though...

TimS wrote on 07/29/08 at 17:12:04:


Hmm, no love for Jonny.  One might think that he's probably the strongest player who regularly (though not all the time) plays the Veresov, and he seems to reliably play 4. Qd3, therefore there should be a good chance that it's the best move.

BTW, that line recommended by Rizzitano (if that's what you meant) has been the main line against 4. f3 for decades.

I used to play the Veresov occasionally, then I realised that its just not very good. White needs to find something against 1d4 d5 2Nc3 Nf6 3Bg5 Nbd7 4f3 c6 with the idea to play a quick e5. was interesting to see this recommended by vigorito in his repertoire book for black against d4

TimS wrote on 07/27/08 at 10:09:07:


The Veresov IMHO is simply desperately in need of a "Hero". I guess Moro would need to play 1 single game (and win) to create interest
The same statements were written and quoted about the Chigorin before Moro began to use it. There's a lot of space for improvement in many of those offbeat openings. And these strange knight-moves seem to get more attention recently.

Indeed, otherwise I'll have to start playing e.g. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.a3 from now onwards in order to find some vaguely useful waiting move and turn this into this super-favourable situation you are talking about JN. 

Quite honestly looking at it from a Chigorin perspective, white is hardly going to be worse after 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 c5 4.Bxf6 gxf6 5.e3 or 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.e3 Bg4 Be2 or the like. It's hardly exciting stuff and I would want to aim for something more promising as white, but I don't think white has to be too worried.

Hmmm... just found out that 1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bg5 c5  is also recommended by John Cox in his Dealing with d4 Deviations. Guess I will have to give up the idea about using the Veresov as a reliable, yet narrow, white rep. White seems to be (at least a bit) worse in all lines after 3.- c5!

Quote:


5. e4 is probably not white's best. It seems that black has a tiny plus after 5. - dxe4 6. dxc5 and now f5 instead of the often played Qa5. Looks like black is ok or even a little bit better in the f5-line. 

5. Nf3 Nc6 is analyzed by Davies and seems to be good for white after 6. e4! However 5. - e5! is much better than Nc6 and white has really nothing.

5. e3 is probably white's best, but nevertheless dead equal.

I fully agree with the previous posters. Come on, essentially white is playing the Chigorin line 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 3.Nf3 Bg4 a tempo up - it is as if black was allowed to move again in that Chigorin line! Of course white has the typical slight edge/initiative thing that he gets in any opening, so I guess the question is just what that extra tempo is worth. But surely it should mean that white it is at least equal in the Veresov?

Quote:

White has developed 2 pieces and made no bigger mistake (perhaps a small one to obstructe the c-pawn) - there is certainly no refutation in sight. Perhaps you should ask about the most promising line for Black - but this also depends on what Black wants: - fast equalizing, - a save game, - good counterchances (but perhaps risky)