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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New Open Ruy Lopez Book? (Read 22706 times)
kylemeister
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #31 - 11/19/08 at 00:45:09
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Markovich wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:10:39:
kylemeister wrote on 11/18/08 at 16:15:01:
5...Qd6 is of course a main line, but Black can hardly count on the feasibility or efficacy of "rolling his kingside pawns."


Really?  I thought 5...f6 was still the main choice, with even 5...Qf6 preferred to 5...Qd6.


I meant that it has certainly been a main line in modern times, even if (as it seems to me) it isn't too popular right now.  I have the impression that something like a decade ago it might have been even more popular than 5...f6.  Several incarnations of ECO/NCO/MCO published from 1997-2008 gave it as sufficient for equality (or unclarity).
  
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Markovich
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #30 - 11/18/08 at 22:10:39
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kylemeister wrote on 11/18/08 at 16:15:01:
5...Qd6 is of course a main line, but Black can hardly count on the feasibility or efficacy of "rolling his kingside pawns."


Really?  I thought 5...f6 was still the main choice, with even 5...Qf6 preferred to 5...Qd6.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #29 - 11/18/08 at 16:15:01
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5...Qd6 is of course a main line, but Black can hardly count on the feasibility or efficacy of "rolling his kingside pawns."
  
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Markovich
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #28 - 11/18/08 at 15:26:22
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Yes well, if you think Black's side of the Exchange is a piece of cake, no doubt you will want to play 3...a6.  But I think that many Open Defense players would find the usual positions of that defense more appealing than the ones that arise from the Exchange.
  

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BobbyDigital80
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #27 - 11/18/08 at 11:07:24
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Okay, well if you don't want to give up the bishop pair then I think 5...Qd6, with a similar plan of castling queenside and rolling the kingside pawns is interesting too.  Cheesy
  
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #26 - 11/15/08 at 23:46:00
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 11/15/08 at 04:26:05:
I don't know why people would want to avoid the exchange variation. A line that Mamedyarov plays sometimes is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. O-O Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 7. Qxf3 Qd7. Usually black castles queenside and plays ...f6, ...h5, and ...g5 and rolls the kingside pawns! It looks like a very interesting plan and he has good results with it. Everyone should look up his games with that line.


5..Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 has been tried by some pretty good players, but it just seems wrong to me on general principles.  The bishop pair is supposed to be Black's comp for his compromised pawn structure, and here he just gives it away.   Huh
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #25 - 11/15/08 at 04:26:05
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I don't know why people would want to avoid the exchange variation. A line that Mamedyarov plays sometimes is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. O-O Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 7. Qxf3 Qd7. Usually black castles queenside and plays ...f6, ...h5, and ...g5 and rolls the kingside pawns! It looks like a very interesting plan and he has good results with it. Everyone should look up his games with that line. Anyway, it would be nice to see a new book on the Open Lopez. I have a pretty good one by Glenn Flear. It doesn't cover everything but it's pretty good. It's 8 years old.
  
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #24 - 10/02/08 at 14:31:22
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I think the strange move order with 3 ... Nf6 4. 0-0 Nxe4 5. d4 a6 ... is just an attempt to reach the Open and avoid the Exchange Variation on the way. But is the Exchange Variation really so terrible so you have to avoid it in the first place? I'm usually glad to see it because I think Black is more comfortable here than in the Spanish main lines.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #23 - 09/26/08 at 15:21:04
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edgy wrote on 09/26/08 at 15:07:40:
kylemeister wrote on 09/25/08 at 22:36:26:
11. Qe2 Be6 12. Ne5 0-0 looks okay for Black after 13. Nxf7 Rxf7 14. Rxe6 Qxd4.



To me, this looks good for White.  What's Black's compensation for the crippled Queenside pawns? 



Well, Black looks pretty active; my first impression is that that could balance White's structural edge.
  
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edgy
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #22 - 09/26/08 at 15:16:13
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Markovich wrote on 09/25/08 at 18:08:42:
edgy wrote on 09/25/08 at 17:24:33:
kylemeister wrote on 09/24/08 at 16:05:30:
I'm guessing that Black should play 11...Be6 there (which of course at least cedes the Bishops)


After 11...Be6, I see nothing resembling a White edge.  Do you?  Maybe White can try 11.Qe2 (instead of Bg5)--then 11...Be6 12.Ne5 and perhaps Black shouldn't castle because of Nxf7?


It seemed to me that after 11...Be6 White could try 12.Qd2, which pretty well forces 12...h6, then 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Rae1 and Black may be O.K., but White is much more active.  I wasn't sure if 14...0-0-0 was any good.


I don't see anything wrong with 14...O-O-O here, and then Black can get his Queen off the e-file followed by either preparing ...c5 or playig ...Rhe8 and contesting the e-file.  In the long run,   I'd expect Black's Bishop to be better than the Knight.

White has the initiative but what does he do with it?  (You're a better player than I am, so I'm hoping to learn something here.)
  

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edgy
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #21 - 09/26/08 at 15:07:40
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kylemeister wrote on 09/25/08 at 22:36:26:
11. Qe2 Be6 12. Ne5 0-0 looks okay for Black after 13. Nxf7 Rxf7 14. Rxe6 Qxd4.



To me, this looks good for White.  What's Black's compensation for the crippled Queenside pawns? 

  

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kylemeister
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #20 - 09/26/08 at 02:25:22
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MNb wrote on 09/26/08 at 01:16:41:
Yes, but I think a lead in developmet really means something. 11.Bg5 Be6 12.Qd2 0-0 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Ng5 and Black will suffer from a weakened pawn structure. Of course it's still a long way to a win, but it's a lasting solid += as far as I can see. BobbyDigital is right on 8.Nbd2.


I, like Markovich, thought Black should play 12...h6 there.
  
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MNb
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #19 - 09/26/08 at 01:16:41
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Yes, but I think a lead in developmet really means something. 11.Bg5 Be6 12.Qd2 0-0 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Ng5 and Black will suffer from a weakened pawn structure. Of course it's still a long way to a win, but it's a lasting solid += as far as I can see. BobbyDigital is right on 8.Nbd2.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #18 - 09/25/08 at 22:36:26
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11. Qe2 Be6 12. Ne5 0-0 looks okay for Black after 13. Nxf7 Rxf7 14. Rxe6 Qxd4.
  
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Markovich
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Re: New Open Ruy Lopez Book?
Reply #17 - 09/25/08 at 18:08:42
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edgy wrote on 09/25/08 at 17:24:33:
kylemeister wrote on 09/24/08 at 16:05:30:
I'm guessing that Black should play 11...Be6 there (which of course at least cedes the Bishops)


After 11...Be6, I see nothing resembling a White edge.  Do you?  Maybe White can try 11.Qe2 (instead of Bg5)--then 11...Be6 12.Ne5 and perhaps Black shouldn't castle because of Nxf7?


It seemed to me that after 11...Be6 White could try 12.Qd2, which pretty well forces 12...h6, then 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Rae1 and Black may be O.K., but White is much more active.  I wasn't sure if 14...0-0-0 was any good.
  

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