Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2 (Read 5154 times)
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #14 - 08/11/08 at 16:37:49
Post Tools
MarinFan wrote on 08/11/08 at 14:43:28:
It recommends Bg5. There are different Authors for each variation, so not a big consistency between all recommendations, but each one is quite dangerous.

Bye John S


In that case that's a big downside to that book in my opinion.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MarinFan
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 425
Location: Leeds
Joined: 04/04/06
Gender: Male
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #13 - 08/11/08 at 14:43:28
Post Tools
It recommends Bg5. There are different Authors for each variation, so not a big consistency between all recommendations, but each one is quite dangerous.

Bye John S
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #12 - 08/11/08 at 12:51:27
Post Tools
MarinFan wrote on 08/11/08 at 08:22:51:
Hello,

The position after 10Bd4 is considered in the "Safest Sicillian " book, which there are several other threads about. It is a repertoire book for black, one of the best ones in recent years. White can certainly cause problems in this line.
                    I think the idea of 5.Bd3 is to keep option of playing c4 or Nc3, but in practise it is a lot easier for white to choose between c4 or Nc3 straightaway. The experts v sicillian book recommends 5.Nc3. There are threads about that too.

Bye John S


Thank's for that info. What does the experts vs. sicilian suggest against the Najdorf? Personally I play this Nc3, Be2 because I want to be consistent with my Najdorf repertoire.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MarinFan
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 425
Location: Leeds
Joined: 04/04/06
Gender: Male
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #11 - 08/11/08 at 08:22:51
Post Tools
Hello,

The position after 10Bd4 is considered in the "Safest Sicillian " book, which there are several other threads about. It is a repertoire book for black, one of the best ones in recent years. White can certainly cause problems in this line.
                    I think the idea of 5.Bd3 is to keep option of playing c4 or Nc3, but in practise it is a lot easier for white to choose between c4 or Nc3 straightaway. The experts v sicillian book recommends 5.Nc3. There are threads about that too.

Bye John S
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4646
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #10 - 08/10/08 at 15:54:22
Post Tools
What we have here is a failure to communicate.  By "equalish" I didn't mean "drawish";  I meant that the chances seem to be close to equal (I was speaking primarily of the Be2 Taimanov/Paulsen with ...Qxc8) based on the practice of recent years, as opposed to in the past when White was definitely thought to have some advantage. 

5. Bd3 has long had the reputation of being the most challenging move against the Kan/Paulsen (which is not to say that it's definitely better than the alternatives or definitely leads to advantage for White).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10512
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #9 - 08/10/08 at 10:50:09
Post Tools
I don't think 5.Be2 is "equalish" at all and you don't have to be a GM to understand why. Just look at the pawns. There are no open lines on which exchanges can take place. White has a dynamic dominance in the centre (pawn e4), Black a numeric (two centre pawns vs one). We can expect a fight all over the board. You can't get it less "equalish", can you? The same for 5.Bd3. One thing that makes almost any Open Sicilian "non-drawish" is the several options that both sides face at almost every move. For one thing it is impossible to state that 5.Nc3 and 6.Be2 is more or less "drawish" than 5.Bd3. It's about looking for the optimal piece arrangement and if that was known the Open Sicilian would have been solved.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #8 - 08/10/08 at 08:56:03
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 08/09/08 at 22:17:20:
8. Na4 is certainly the best.  My impression is that this line seems to be, typically for a main line, something like balanced between "=" and "+=".  Can't say I'm up on particular recent games though.  

By the way, this is sometimes called a Paulsen.  Some people consider that it's only a Taimanov when Black plays ...Nge7.  It's all a bit confusing.


Is 5.Bd3 less equalish?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4646
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #7 - 08/09/08 at 22:17:20
Post Tools
8. Na4 is certainly the best.  My impression is that this line seems to be, typically for a main line, something like balanced between "=" and "+=".  Can't say I'm up on particular recent games though. 

By the way, this is sometimes called a Paulsen.  Some people consider that it's only a Taimanov when Black plays ...Nge7.  It's all a bit confusing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #6 - 08/09/08 at 21:49:46
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 08/09/08 at 21:42:08:
Well, it's a mainline position in the Taimanov.


Admin should probably change the title on this thread so that not more people fall into the same trap Wink

Does this mean that the whole system with 6.Be2 is "equalish". I can not say myself from looking at the position if this is the case or not.

In that case, should white perhaps play something else than 9.Na4?

What are some recent games in this whole variation btw?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4646
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #5 - 08/09/08 at 21:42:08
Post Tools
Well, it's a mainline position in the Taimanov.  13. e5 used to be standard, and is still a major alternative.  This whole line involving ...Qxc8 used to be thought to just be good for White, but the view has shifted in recent years to equalish.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #4 - 08/09/08 at 20:41:40
Post Tools
Quote:
It's actually a Kan or Paulsen, not a Taimanov.


I blame it on the beer!



Black almost always continues 6...Nc6 instead of 6...Nf6 but I can't see the reason for this. I suppose black's plan with ...Qc7 is to prevent e5 so as to play Nf6 some time so why not emmediately. In any case it seems to transpose.

The only OTB game that I have played in this variation continued 6...Nf6 7.0-0 h5 which to me looks very strange but my opponent who was fairly strong (almost 2100) obviously had some plan although I think that he may have been unprepared and played the Kan just against me. First of all he will play ...Ng4 on Be3. So I continued 8.f4 Bc5 9.e5 Nc6 10.Be3 Ng4 11.Bxg4 hxg4 12.Ne4 Bf8 and I was clearly better.

So a general rule is probably that black will have a difficult time if he lets white play e5.

The most played continuation according to chessgames.com is:

1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 e6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 a6   5. Nc3 Qc7   6. Be2 Nc6   7. O-O Nf6   8. Be3 Bb4   9. Na4 Be7

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

after 9...Nxe4 the theory seems to be the game M Djerkovic - R Huang, 2007 10.c4 Be7 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Nb6 Rb8 13.c5

10.Nxc6 bxc6 11.Nb6 Rb8 12.Nxc8 Qxc8 13.Bd4 white has the bishop pair. What are your thougths on this position?
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ptero
Full Member
***
Offline


When all else fails, read
the instructions.

Posts: 220
Joined: 03/22/06
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #3 - 08/09/08 at 16:02:48
Post Tools
Bocajaka wrote on 08/08/08 at 18:12:51:
1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 e6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 a6   5. Nc3 Qc7   6. Be2

1)Is there a name for this particular variation and 2)are there any problems with it 3)are there any books that advocate this variation for white?


There is a comprehensive CD from Chessbase by Austrian IM Norbert Sommerbauer on the Paulsen. It has some good coverage of this line (and others), but not necessarily from White's point of view.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4646
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #2 - 08/09/08 at 15:41:13
Post Tools
It's actually a Kan or Paulsen, not a Taimanov.

5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be2 is certainly a line (it gets several columns in ECO, for instance).  Don't know of a name for it or a book advocating it.  There's also Be2 on the fifth move (waiting for ...Nf6, so to speak), which has been played by e.g. Geller and Volokitin.  These Be2 lines can of course transpose to a classical sort of Taimanov or Scheveningen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CheckMate
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 163
Location: Uppsala
Joined: 07/18/06
Gender: Male
Re: Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
Reply #1 - 08/09/08 at 13:04:24
Post Tools
The only book I know about is Burgess' The Taimanov Sicilian, which treats the entire Taimanov from both sides. It's probably dated now, but I haven't seen it so I know how good it is.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bocajaka
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 07/15/08
Taimanov 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2
08/08/08 at 18:12:51
Post Tools
1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 e6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 a6   5. Nc3 Qc7   6. Be2

1)Is there a name for this particular variation and 2)are there any problems with it 3)are there any books that advocate this variation for white?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo