MarinFan wrote on 08/11/08 at 15:29:29:

I have to think this right about running short on pages allowed by the publisher because there really is scant coverage on the KID maybe a handful of pages intended to complete the repertoire but not nearly so much as gives the Botvinnik positions, the Dutch, or anything else.  My memory seems to think it is a couple of pages at most.

CheckMate wrote on 09/05/08 at 15:06:30:

The original post was Kosten's English versus KID.  There are two points.  Kosten's line might seem uninspired to some, but he makes clear throughout that he prefers to stick to a pure 'English' setup because the familiarity with the position is worth something and often transposing into the opponents field of play does the opposite but if you know a solid line against some system, 'now is the time to transpose.'  I have been unimpressed with Kosten's repertoire against the Slav and KID.  Meeting 2.g3 with ...c6 (after the commital Bg7 rather than Bh3) is quite solid.  I think it calls into question the soundness of 2.g3.  This is something that Avrukh in 1.d4 does not always recommend, but if you have been deep into Kosten's Dynamic English, adding d4 into the repertoire is not exactly as natural progression as it would seem to the uninitiated.

In his book, Jangjava examines the position after 1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. d4 Nc6 6. Nf3 d5 7. cxd5 Nxd5 8. o-o in a note (via 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Nf3 o-o 7.o-o Nc6 8.Nc3) and he says that 8...Nxc3 (trying to prove that White's move order is suboptimal) is not good and that Black should stay in the main line with 8...Nb6.

About Black trying longer to keep back the d-pawn (in order to play either ...d6 or ...d5 according to circumstances), here is a correspondence game with comments (in French) with a World Champion leading the Black pieces.

http://ajec-echecs.org/analyses/et.php

An example move order I use is:
1. c4 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. d4 c6 6. e4 d5?!

However 5 .. Nc6 as you suggested is possible indeed, leading to the Grunfeld. A very clever move-order to trick white in the Grunfeld. But is this a variation what black wants? Since I like postions like that with white.

Black_Widow wrote on 09/05/08 at 21:31:16:


I suppose you are talking about an English move order such as 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. g3 c6 4. Bg2 d5 5. cd cd 6. Qb3, or here 4. e4?

Markovich wrote on 09/05/08 at 16:32:32:


You're in good company; this always reminds me of a game Markland-Hort from the '70s, in which "a top GM was slaughtered" (in the words of Andrew Soltis, I think) by a British master.

I also recall that the ...c5 (instead of ...e5) version (generally considered the way to go for Black) was considered slightly better for White by Emms in NCO (though some other sources differ).

Annihilator wrote on 08/29/08 at 20:24:23:


I agree that d4 gives more chances against the KID. The problem is that Black may duck into a Grundfeld or a Grunfeld-Slav setup if you play d4 before Black is committed to d6. That's my main objection to all early g3-based anti-KID systems.

I havent got Dembo's book yet but on balance I am tempted to try 5e3 myself. I haven't had great success with 5d3 and queenside expansion plans as the inveitable KID attack on the kingside can become quite rampant.  

I think 5 e3 is very flexible as its a sound system vs a follow up ...e5,  ...c6, or ...c5 by black

5e4 seems less desirable  when black has not played ...N-c6. although of course a Botvinnik structure is still possible here too. I confess to even playing 2c4 against the Sicilian in the odd 1e4 I play!

Hello,

Yelena pretty much knocks out the Bg5 thing. Not very suprising really it was recommended some years ago, and wasn't very impressive in the first place. (Think Tony Kosten was running out of allowed pages for his book basically. So think was a excellent repetoire book for the small number of pages used. It's normal that a new opening book should question previous analysis, otherwise it would not be a very worthwhile new book.)
        Also covers the Botvinnik set-up that is in the dynamic english, and has some good recommendations there too.

Bye John S

Dembo is not out yet I believe.

The book came out in the European Union in July. However, in the USA the publication date is the 20th of August.

http://www.everymanchess.com/display.php?id=470

Even in the US that does not give white players long before black opponents will be trying out the suggested repertoire  vs 1c4/1N-f3

Put your order in now I say!

Thanks for creating this thread, Calendonian. Its an important question - how can an English player meet the King's Indian while at the same time not getting move ordered out of his other English lines?

I'd be interested to hear what Dembo covers in 'Fighting the Anti-Kings Indians'. I initially though this would be restricted to 1.d4 lines, a kind of Cox's 'Dealing with d4 Deviations' only for ...g6 players (Cox's book is for Nimzo/QID players with ...e6).

Here are the main lines I can think of -

Closed Sicilian c4,Nf3,g3,Bg2,0-0,Nc3,d3 (Strategic Opening Repertoire)

Closed Sicilian with e3 - c4,g3,Bg2,Nc3,e3,Nge2 (Soltis?!)

Kosten's Bg5 - useful for keeping open transpositions to a Botvinnik setup (Dynamic English)

Extended Reti with b4 - Nf3,c4,b4 (Dynamic Reti)