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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer? (Read 10277 times)
MNb
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #13 - 12/03/09 at 02:28:07
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Except that Black has played the move ...Qa5 for free (Qd8-b6-a5 vs. Nd4-b5-d4). But I was wrong on Qc7 indeed.
As 7...Bg4 looks good as well 7.Ndb5 still fails to impress me.
  

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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #12 - 12/02/09 at 09:39:34
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MNb wrote on 08/25/08 at 02:13:02:
My memory failed me once again. Van Delft did not recommend 6.Bc4, but 6.Bg5. The variation 6.Bc4 Qb6 occurred in the games of three Dutch players last months. See below.

Starting point: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bc4 e6.

White has three attacking ideas: the old fashioned Sozin with 0-0 and f4, the ultrasharp Velimirovic Attack with Qe2 and 0-0-0 and finally the relatively modern f4 and Qf3. All these three attacking systems usually require the moves Be3 and Bb3. The obvious question is: does 7.Be3 and 8.Bb3 benefit White by chosing the most optimal setup against all possible Black answers? I think yes. White can try to get the best of three worlds.

A) Imprecise is 7.0-0?! a6 8Lb3 Dc7! 9Le3 Pa5 10f4 b5 11f5 e5! -+.
B) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 0-0 9.0-0 (9.f4?! Nxd4 10.Bxd4 e5!)
B1) 9...a6 10.f4 Qc7 (Bd7 11.f5) 11.Qf3 Na5 (Nxd4 transposes to B2; b5 12.a3) 12.g4.
B2) 9...Nxd4 10.Bxd4 a6 (b5 11.Nxb5 Ba6 12.a4!?) 11.f4 b5 (Qc7 12.Qf3) 12.a3 (12.e5!?) Bb7 13.Re1.
C) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 (Bd7 might not optimally placed in the Velimirovic Attack) 0-0 (a6 is line D) 10.0-0-0 Qb8 11.Rhg1.
D) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 a6 9.f4 Qc7 (Na5 10.Qf3 Nxb3 11.axb3 0-0 12.g4 and White can still castle queenside; 0-0 10.0-0 is line B1) 10.Qf3 0-0 (Na5 11.g4) 11.0-0 (11.f5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 or even 11.0-0-0 b5 12.e5) b5 (Na5 12.g4 or 12.f5) 12.e5 Nxd4 13.Bxd4 dxe5.
D) 7.Be3 a6 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 Be7 (Qc7 or b5 10.0-0-0 and 11.g4) 0-0 10.0-0-0 0-0 11.f4 (you must investigate 11.g4 and 11.Rhg1 as well, I have forgotten about them) Qc7 12.f5 (12.g4!?) Nxd4 13.Rxd4.

Black probably can reach (near-)equality, but let him prove it.
So White plays f4 and Qf3 against an early Qc7 and the Velimirovic against an early Bd7. If Black choses normal development with Be7 and 0-0 White can chose between the old fashioned 0-0 (like Fischer) or the ultrasharp Velimirovic.

So Black often plays 6...Qb6. You will often read about 7.Nb3, but I don't like it. The bishop will have to withdraw to d3 and the queen to c7. As a result White will play a Classical Scheveningen with the move Nb3 for free, but with Be2-d3 obliged. I don't think this is the ideal setup; if White plays Nb3-d4 he will have lost a tempo. Neither does Ndb5 impress me; if Black withdraws the queen to c7 and White the knight to d4 again Black again has won a tempo. Finally 7.Nde2 is somewhat passive.
The consequent move is 7.Nxc6. White has some gambits available: bxc6 8.0-0
a) 8...e6 9.Bf4 Qxb2 10.Qd3 Qb4 11.Rab1 Qc5 12.Rfd1 e5 13.Bg5 Be7 14.Bxf6 gxf6 (Bxf6 15.Na4!) Fischer-Byrne, 1971, 15.Nd5!?
b) 8...g6 9.Be3 Qxb2 10.Bd4 e5 11.Nb5 exd4 12.Nc7+ Kd8 13.Nxa8 Qc3 14.Qe2 Bb7 15.Rab1 Bxa8 16.Rb3 d3 17.cxd3 1-0, MNb-De Glopper, corr 1998.
c) 8...e5 9.Bb3, 9.Be3 or 9.Kh1.

Aforementioned Dutchmen prefer a more positional approach.
Brandenburg-Swinkels, NEDchT Meesterklasse 0708 (3): 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Qc5 10.b3 Bg7 11.Bb2 0-0 12.Na4.
Stellwagen-Kosintseva, Corus B 2008: 8.0-0 g6 (e6 9.b3 Be7 10.Bb2 +=) 9.Qe1 Ng4 10.h3 Ne5 11.Na4 Qc7 (Qd4 12.Bb3 Bg7 13.Bd2 +=) 12.Qc3 Rg8 13.Be2 +=.
Stellwagen-Bregadze, Wch jun 2007: 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Bg7 10.e5 dxe5 11.Qxe5 +=.
All three games were won by White.

I have less confidence in Bc4-lines against the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Dragon. Neither is 2..d6/5...a6 6.Be3 Nc6 7.Bc4 because of ...Ng4! White can play 7.Be2, 7.Qd2 or 7.f3.
Against the Scheveningen 6.Be3 is a nice option, hoping for Nc6 7.Bc4. Black has 6...a6 and 6...Be7.

Disagree. After 7...a6 8.Be3 Queen has the squares a5 and d8, and therefore after 9.Sd4 Black didn't won a tempo.
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #11 - 08/26/08 at 11:15:23
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MNb wrote on 08/25/08 at 02:13:02:
My memory failed me once again. Van Delft did not recommend 6.Bc4, but 6.Bg5. The variation 6.Bc4 Qb6 occurred in the games of three Dutch players last months. See below.

Starting point: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bc4 e6.

White has three attacking ideas: the old fashioned Sozin with 0-0 and f4, the ultrasharp Velimirovic Attack with Qe2 and 0-0-0 and finally the relatively modern f4 and Qf3. All these three attacking systems usually require the moves Be3 and Bb3. The obvious question is: does 7.Be3 and 8.Bb3 benefit White by chosing the most optimal setup against all possible Black answers? I think yes. White can try to get the best of three worlds.

A) Imprecise is 7.0-0?! a6 8Lb3 Dc7! 9Le3 Pa5 10f4 b5 11f5 e5! -+.
B) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 0-0 9.0-0 (9.f4?! Nxd4 10.Bxd4 e5!)
B1) 9...a6 10.f4 Qc7 (Bd7 11.f5) 11.Qf3 Na5 (Nxd4 transposes to B2; b5 12.a3) 12.g4.
B2) 9...Nxd4 10.Bxd4 a6 (b5 11.Nxb5 Ba6 12.a4!?) 11.f4 b5 (Qc7 12.Qf3) 12.a3 (12.e5!?) Bb7 13.Re1.
C) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 (Bd7 might not optimally placed in the Velimirovic Attack) 0-0 (a6 is line D) 10.0-0-0 Qb8 11.Rhg1.
D) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 a6 9.f4 Qc7 (Na5 10.Qf3 Nxb3 11.axb3 0-0 12.g4 and White can still castle queenside; 0-0 10.0-0 is line B1) 10.Qf3 0-0 (Na5 11.g4) 11.0-0 (11.f5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 or even 11.0-0-0 b5 12.e5) b5 (Na5 12.g4 or 12.f5) 12.e5 Nxd4 13.Bxd4 dxe5.
D) 7.Be3 a6 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 Be7 (Qc7 or b5 10.0-0-0 and 11.g4) 0-0 10.0-0-0 0-0 11.f4 (you must investigate 11.g4 and 11.Rhg1 as well, I have forgotten about them) Qc7 12.f5 (12.g4!?) Nxd4 13.Rxd4.

Black probably can reach (near-)equality, but let him prove it.
So White plays f4 and Qf3 against an early Qc7 and the Velimirovic against an early Bd7. If Black choses normal development with Be7 and 0-0 White can chose between the old fashioned 0-0 (like Fischer) or the ultrasharp Velimirovic.

So Black often plays 6...Qb6. You will often read about 7.Nb3, but I don't like it. The bishop will have to withdraw to d3 and the queen to c7. As a result White will play a Classical Scheveningen with the move Nb3 for free, but with Be2-d3 obliged. I don't think this is the ideal setup; if White plays Nb3-d4 he will have lost a tempo. Neither does Ndb5 impress me; if Black withdraws the queen to c7 and White the knight to d4 again Black again has won a tempo. Finally 7.Nde2 is somewhat passive.
The consequent move is 7.Nxc6. White has some gambits available: bxc6 8.0-0
a) 8...e6 9.Bf4 Qxb2 10.Qd3 Qb4 11.Rab1 Qc5 12.Rfd1 e5 13.Bg5 Be7 14.Bxf6 gxf6 (Bxf6 15.Na4!) Fischer-Byrne, 1971, 15.Nd5!?
b) 8...g6 9.Be3 Qxb2 10.Bd4 e5 11.Nb5 exd4 12.Nc7+ Kd8 13.Nxa8 Qc3 14.Qe2 Bb7 15.Rab1 Bxa8 16.Rb3 d3 17.cxd3 1-0, MNb-De Glopper, corr 1998.
c) 8...e5 9.Bb3, 9.Be3 or 9.Kh1.

Aforementioned Dutchmen prefer a more positional approach.
Brandenburg-Swinkels, NEDchT Meesterklasse 0708 (3): 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Qc5 10.b3 Bg7 11.Bb2 0-0 12.Na4.
Stellwagen-Kosintseva, Corus B 2008: 8.0-0 g6 (e6 9.b3 Be7 10.Bb2 +=) 9.Qe1 Ng4 10.h3 Ne5 11.Na4 Qc7 (Qd4 12.Bb3 Bg7 13.Bd2 +=) 12.Qc3 Rg8 13.Be2 +=.
Stellwagen-Bregadze, Wch jun 2007: 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Bg7 10.e5 dxe5 11.Qxe5 +=.
All three games were won by White.

I have less confidence in Bc4-lines against the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Dragon. Neither is 2..d6/5...a6 6.Be3 Nc6 7.Bc4 because of ...Ng4! White can play 7.Be2, 7.Qd2 or 7.f3.
Against the Scheveningen 6.Be3 is a nice option, hoping for Nc6 7.Bc4. Black has 6...a6 and 6...Be7.


Oops, I forgot to read your post in detail. The 9...Qc5 idea looks good enough, though I must admit Black does not seem to have much winning chances
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #10 - 08/25/08 at 17:03:32
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Against the  R-R I've found an interesting analysis in the book "The School of Chess".

The "Chinese Recipe" ( pag 208) goes:

6. Bg5 e6  7. Qd2 a6  8. 0-0-0 Qb6

Liu Wenzhe says: This is the move I propose to discuss in detail"

Liu Wenzhe considers:

9. Nxc6 ?!
9. Bxf6
9. f4
9. f3
9. Be3
9. Nb3
  

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MNb
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #9 - 08/25/08 at 14:48:00
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Bibs wrote on 08/25/08 at 05:59:57:
Hi MnB.
Sounds as though these articles may be an intriguing series.
I drew a blank googling as no apparent home page for Schaaknieuws though.
Can you perhaps furnish me with extra details as to how one may try to obtain, via  a pm perhaps?

Thank you in advance if you are able to oblige,

regards

Bibs


In the magazin I found

www.schaaknieuws.demon.nl

but it is out of service, hopefully temporarily.

Schaaknieuws is Dutch voor Chess News and that is exactly what it is: Dutch and Flemish chess news mainly written by and about Dutch' and Flemings. Occasionaly Paul Motwani contributes though. I prefer it to NIC-magazine because it is not snobbish - sometimes there is some outright gutter journalism, but always tong-in-cheek and never too long.
The main attraction for me though is having important (both chauvinistic speaking and theoretically) Dutch games analysed that are not to be found elsewhere. TWIC hardly ever contains of Meesterklasse (Masterclass), the 1st division of team competition.
  

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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #8 - 08/25/08 at 14:44:26
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Don't suppose I could interest the questioner in a nice chess book, say "The Sozin Sicilian" by Mikhail Golubev.
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #7 - 08/25/08 at 12:48:33
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I play the Classsical Sicilian. 7.Nxc6 in the Benko line does not bother me. I will just play 7..bxc6 8.0-0 g6. 9. Be3 Qc7 looks okay, although the pawn sacrifice may not be sound, but if you dont know anything about it, just avoid it.

9.Qe2, 9...Ng4 seems good enough

I will check on 9.Qe1. Qc3 looks annoying.
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #6 - 08/25/08 at 09:37:08
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after 6. Bc4 I have always played 6...Bd7 which tends to lead to the dragon. One of the reasons I play 5.Nc6 is that I am happy to play dragon or the black side of the Richter Rauzer or even the Boleslavsky.   

however I lost a richter-Rauzer on Sunday. My opponent is rated 400-500 rating points higher than me and outplayed me in the middle game.
  

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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #5 - 08/25/08 at 08:02:55
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After 6...e6 I feel like 7.Bb3 is necessary otherwise on 7.Be3 I think black is ok playing 7...d5. Without blocking the e-file white can castle and play Re1 instead. I saw Fischer played it like this.

Then after 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 (or 7.Bb3 8.Be3) 0-0 9.0-0 Principally I don't see why black can not take the bishop with Na5 since it has spent it's own tempos to get to b3. It looks wrong to me, but maybe white can play for his normal f4-f5 stuff and somehow it is good for him?

I will let you answer that one to begin with and ask you about the other lines shortly.
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #4 - 08/25/08 at 05:59:57
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MNb wrote on 08/24/08 at 13:40:56:
IM Merijn van Delft seems to have the same opinion, as he recommends this in his Schaaknieuws Repertoire.


Hi MnB.
Sounds as though these articles may be an intriguing series.
I drew a blank googling as no apparent home page for Schaaknieuws though.
Can you perhaps furnish me with extra details as to how one may try to obtain, via  a pm perhaps?

Thank you in advance if you are able to oblige,

regards

Bibs
  
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MNb
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #3 - 08/25/08 at 02:13:02
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My memory failed me once again. Van Delft did not recommend 6.Bc4, but 6.Bg5. The variation 6.Bc4 Qb6 occurred in the games of three Dutch players last months. See below.

Starting point: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bc4 e6.

White has three attacking ideas: the old fashioned Sozin with 0-0 and f4, the ultrasharp Velimirovic Attack with Qe2 and 0-0-0 and finally the relatively modern f4 and Qf3. All these three attacking systems usually require the moves Be3 and Bb3. The obvious question is: does 7.Be3 and 8.Bb3 benefit White by chosing the most optimal setup against all possible Black answers? I think yes. White can try to get the best of three worlds.

A) Imprecise is 7.0-0?! a6 8Lb3 Dc7! 9Le3 Pa5 10f4 b5 11f5 e5! -+.
B) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 0-0 9.0-0 (9.f4?! Nxd4 10.Bxd4 e5!)
B1) 9...a6 10.f4 Qc7 (Bd7 11.f5) 11.Qf3 Na5 (Nxd4 transposes to B2; b5 12.a3) 12.g4.
B2) 9...Nxd4 10.Bxd4 a6 (b5 11.Nxb5 Ba6 12.a4!?) 11.f4 b5 (Qc7 12.Qf3) 12.a3 (12.e5!?) Bb7 13.Re1.
C) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 (Bd7 might not optimally placed in the Velimirovic Attack) 0-0 (a6 is line D) 10.0-0-0 Qb8 11.Rhg1.
D) 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 a6 9.f4 Qc7 (Na5 10.Qf3 Nxb3 11.axb3 0-0 12.g4 and White can still castle queenside; 0-0 10.0-0 is line B1) 10.Qf3 0-0 (Na5 11.g4) 11.0-0 (11.f5 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 or even 11.0-0-0 b5 12.e5) b5 (Na5 12.g4 or 12.f5) 12.e5 Nxd4 13.Bxd4 dxe5.
D) 7.Be3 a6 8.Bb3 Bd7 9.Qe2 Be7 (Qc7 or b5 10.0-0-0 and 11.g4) 0-0 10.0-0-0 0-0 11.f4 (you must investigate 11.g4 and 11.Rhg1 as well, I have forgotten about them) Qc7 12.f5 (12.g4!?) Nxd4 13.Rxd4.

Black probably can reach (near-)equality, but let him prove it.
So White plays f4 and Qf3 against an early Qc7 and the Velimirovic against an early Bd7. If Black choses normal development with Be7 and 0-0 White can chose between the old fashioned 0-0 (like Fischer) or the ultrasharp Velimirovic.

So Black often plays 6...Qb6. You will often read about 7.Nb3, but I don't like it. The bishop will have to withdraw to d3 and the queen to c7. As a result White will play a Classical Scheveningen with the move Nb3 for free, but with Be2-d3 obliged. I don't think this is the ideal setup; if White plays Nb3-d4 he will have lost a tempo. Neither does Ndb5 impress me; if Black withdraws the queen to c7 and White the knight to d4 again Black again has won a tempo. Finally 7.Nde2 is somewhat passive.
The consequent move is 7.Nxc6. White has some gambits available: bxc6 8.0-0
a) 8...e6 9.Bf4 Qxb2 10.Qd3 Qb4 11.Rab1 Qc5 12.Rfd1 e5 13.Bg5 Be7 14.Bxf6 gxf6 (Bxf6 15.Na4!) Fischer-Byrne, 1971, 15.Nd5!?
b) 8...g6 9.Be3 Qxb2 10.Bd4 e5 11.Nb5 exd4 12.Nc7+ Kd8 13.Nxa8 Qc3 14.Qe2 Bb7 15.Rab1 Bxa8 16.Rb3 d3 17.cxd3 1-0, MNb-De Glopper, corr 1998.
c) 8...e5 9.Bb3, 9.Be3 or 9.Kh1.

Aforementioned Dutchmen prefer a more positional approach.
Brandenburg-Swinkels, NEDchT Meesterklasse 0708 (3): 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Qc5 10.b3 Bg7 11.Bb2 0-0 12.Na4.
Stellwagen-Kosintseva, Corus B 2008: 8.0-0 g6 (e6 9.b3 Be7 10.Bb2 +=) 9.Qe1 Ng4 10.h3 Ne5 11.Na4 Qc7 (Qd4 12.Bb3 Bg7 13.Bd2 +=) 12.Qc3 Rg8 13.Be2 +=.
Stellwagen-Bregadze, Wch jun 2007: 8.0-0 g6 9.Qe1 Bg7 10.e5 dxe5 11.Qxe5 +=.
All three games were won by White.

I have less confidence in Bc4-lines against the Najdorf, Scheveningen and Dragon. Neither is 2..d6/5...a6 6.Be3 Nc6 7.Bc4 because of ...Ng4! White can play 7.Be2, 7.Qd2 or 7.f3.
Against the Scheveningen 6.Be3 is a nice option, hoping for Nc6 7.Bc4. Black has 6...a6 and 6...Be7.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #2 - 08/24/08 at 15:25:25
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MNb wrote on 08/24/08 at 13:40:56:
If you like I can give you an overview.


I'd like that very much!
  
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Re: Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
Reply #1 - 08/24/08 at 13:40:56
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1. No, as every single line after 6.Bg5 belongs to the Richter-Rauser. Black has a wide choice though and I have always been attracted to 6...e6; 7...Bd7 and 8...Rc8.
2. There is nothing wrong with 6.Bc4, especially GM Velimirovic - seems to be somewhat forgotten these days, but was still a sensation around 1980, when I began to play some serious chess - has played several crushing games. Whereas 6.Bg5 promises a lasting initiative without too much risk the Sozin often leads to do or die positions. Since 10, 15 years or so I suspect that the old-fashioned approach - 6.Bc4, 7.Be3, 8.Bb3 and then often f4 and 0-0 - might offer White a lasting edge. IM Merijn van Delft seems to have the same opinion, as he recommends this in his Schaaknieuws Repertoire.
If you dare to rely on your own opinions, contrary to the widely accepted mainstream and don't mind to do your own work I think 6.Bc4 is an excellent choice. If you like I can give you an overview.
  

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Any good way to avoid Richter-Rauzer?
08/24/08 at 13:03:39
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In this position after the following move order:

1. e4 c5   2. Nf3 d6   3. d4 cxd4   4. Nxd4 Nf6   5. Nc3 Nc6

does black have any serious alternatives to avoid the Richter-Rauzer that score at least 50/50 for white?

There is the 6.Bc4 which I think it is called the sozin attack or similar but it doesn't score particularly well for some reason. Anyone know why? It would be a good move that would fit into my repertoire though.
  
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