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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit? (Read 62267 times)
MNb
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #106 - 10/07/08 at 01:36:16
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Why waste time on stuff like 1.d4 e5 when GM's play like this?

http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/files/oct5_2008.htm

Click Svidler-Riazantsev and watch closely the finaly position, after you have noticed the queen sac and the March of the White King. This is what I call attacking chess, not 3...Nge7.
  

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SWJediknight
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #105 - 10/06/08 at 16:37:40
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Well, I proposed a couple of improvements on the old Grob line (8...Ba5 9.Rb5 Bxd2+ 10.Qxd2 Kd8 11.e4 a6 for instance, while in the 11...h6 line, Grob's 13...Qf8 can certainly be improved upon).  I don't trust 11...h6 though, for while Black may be fine after 12.h4 b6 13.Bc4 Na5, I think the immediate 12.Bc4 leaves Black in trouble.

However, I don't agree with the "unclear" assessment that was widely applied to the line until recently (which I suspect caused the long-held view that 8.Rb3 was stronger than 8.Nd5).  The onus is on Black to make the line playable, not on White to prove an advantage.
  
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #104 - 10/06/08 at 05:24:46
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(1) Stadelman,Samuel Leigh - Marshall,Frank James [C58]
Manhattan CC-Franklin CC New York, 1910




1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 cxb5 9.Qxa8 Nb7 10.d4 Bd6 11.0-0 0-0 12.Qxa7 exd4 13.Na3 Bc5 14.Qa6 Nd6 15.Qc6 Bb4 16.Qf3 h6 17.Nh3 Bb7 18.Qd3 Qb6 19.Bf4 Qc6 20.f3 Nc4 21.Nxc4 bxc4 22.Qd1 Nd5 23.Kh1 Qf6 24.Bd2 c3 25.bxc3 dxc3 26.Bc1 Rd8 27.Qe1 Ba6 28.Rg1 Bc5 29.Rb1 Bxg1 30.Nxg1 Qf5 31.Qf2 Re8 32.a4 Qe6 33.Ba3 Ne3 34.Bc5 Nf5 35.g4 Ne3 36.Rb6 Nxg4 37.fxg4 Qd5+ 38.Qg2 Bc4 39.Ba3 Re1 40.Rd6 Qg5 41.Rd4 Be6 42.h3 Qe3 43.Rd3 Qa7 44.Bb4 Qxa4 45.Bxc3 Rc1 46.Rd4 Qxc2 47.Qxc2 Rxc2 48.Bd2 g5 49.Nf3 f5 50.Kg2 fxg4 51.hxg4 Rc4 52.Rxc4 Bxc4 53.Nd4 Kh7 54.Kg3 Bf7 1/2-1/2


Here is a game by Samuel Leigh Stadelman against Frank J. Marshall. It was played in a team championship, Franklin CC versus Manhattan CC. Stadelman was White, playing for the old Franklin Chess Club.
  
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drkodos
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #103 - 10/06/08 at 02:45:32
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There is no limit to what a human can achieve so long as no energy is spent on worrying who gets the credit.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #102 - 10/06/08 at 01:51:29
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Gambit wrote on 09/13/08 at 04:34:41:
 
As for LeeRoth's analyses, I will post refutations to that another time.


All of this is fascinating, to be sure, but I am still waiting for the refutations of "my" -- actually Buecker's -- analyses of the Englund.

  
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #101 - 10/05/08 at 23:43:04
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 Re-inventing or reintroducing the Zilbermints Gambit would be a more accurate way to put it. Keep in mind that Stadelman's analyses was apparently forgotten by the chess world. I say this because, after searching quite a bit, I cannot locate any games with 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6  3 Nf3 Nge7 earlier than 1983. 

All told, there exist only six games prior to 1993, with the 3...Nge7 line. No player before me played this line regularly and consistently.
What I did was develop the theory of this opening and re-introduce it into tournament play.

The same article I cited states that Stadelman called 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 d6 the "Stad Gambit". He was apparently unaware that Henry Charlick, an Australian correspondence chess player, introduced 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 d6 in 1894.

In Germany, 1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 d6 is known as the Hartlaub Gambit. It is named after the German player, Carl Hartlaub,  who played the opening in 1899 and 1921.

As was stated earlier here, some openings have more than one name.
  
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #100 - 10/05/08 at 16:45:05
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Inventing the internet. Inventing the Blackberry. Inventing openings. My, my my, it never ends.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #99 - 10/05/08 at 15:35:32
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I'm happy to call it the Zilbermints Gambit mainly because there are reputable sources that call it as such- Tim Harding, Stefan Bucker etc.

But I agree with HTH's central point.  Surely, to invent an opening is to be the first to play it.  If someone else comes up with the same idea and introduces it to a wider audience- even if totally independently of the original inventor- that's not inventing it.  It's establishing/popularising it, and arguably re-inventing it.
  
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #98 - 10/05/08 at 11:49:13
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Dear esteemed fellows.
In regards of the comments:
MNb wrote on 10/02/08 at 00:03:55:
SWJediknight wrote on 10/01/08 at 23:20:01:
For instance, 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nc3!? is most often called the Mason Gambit, but I've also seen it attributed to Keres and Steinitz.

Only 3...Nc6 4.d4 is the Steinitz Gambit. Indeed Göring (the uncle of Hermann) was not the first to play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 (Morphy had the honor to meet this in 1851), but he was the first with 4...dxc3 5.Bc4.

And
ArKheiN wrote on 10/02/08 at 06:37:31:
Sometimes it's attribued to a city, a country...Sometimes to a nickname as "Halloween-Gambit", "Dracula-Frankenstein" ,"Stonewall", Hedgehog", etc, but it's sometimes the name of the first "known" guy who played the line, or the first strong player who played it, or the player who popularized it, generally after having played that at master level.

which are in themselves are salient. But I think what it appears that is not being understood is that the debate that surrounds the particular naming of this set of chess moves is quite unique. If it was at all as simple as saying who played or analysed what first or even the most first allowed sole naming rights then the current course of this thread would be moot. Any player or person worth his salt would agree with those comments made by MnB
MNb wrote on 10/02/08 at 00:03:55:

Frankly I do not really care if 3...Nge7 is called the Stadelman or the Zilbermintz Gambit....

But unlike those opening sequences quoted above, the uniqueness of this particular situation continues to lie in that Mr. Zilbermintz purports that he invented the opening in question contra to evidence that the opening existed approximately 55 years beforehand (if I read Mr. Zilbermintz’s post correctly). 
HTH
Angry
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #97 - 10/04/08 at 16:59:39
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I would like to take the time to respond to these critics who say I did not invent 3...Nge7 in the Englund Gambit. The facts are as follows.

It was March 1993. At that time, I was analysing both 1 d4 e5 2 de5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 and 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1

This was way before the Internet started. I had no idea who Stadelman was, nor of any games with the 3...Nge7 line. That came much later. In fact, Stefan Buecker of Germany sent me a photocopy
of an article published in Canadian Chess magazine in August 1965.
That article was in itself quite interesting. Apparently, the editor at the time found old clippings of yet another chess article in a copy of Aron Nimzovich's "My System", first published in 1936.

The old clippings dealt with the Englund Gambit. One of these mentioned Samuel Leigh Stadelman's analyses (judging by the way it was written). Unfortunately, no date was given.  The Canadian editor deemed the clippings curious enough to re-publish them.

Now, Stefan Buecker sent me the photocopy of the Canadian article in 1996. Prior to that, I had no inkling of who Stadelman was. Later research yielded some data and even a rare photograph of him.

Stadelman analysed many lines, but only two were ever published.
I believe that the newspaper which published the original articles was the Philadelphia Inquirer, where Walter P. Shipley was the chess editor. Both Shipley and Stadelman belonged to the old Franklin (since 1955 Franklin-Mercantile) Chess Club. 

Stadelman's analyses ran as follows:

1 d4 e5 2 dxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 

I. 4 Bg5 h6 5 Bh4 g5 6 Bg3 Nf5!

II. 4 Bf4 Ng6 5 g3 d6 6 Bb5 Bd7 7 ed6 Nxf4 8 ef4 Bxd6

The original article states that he gave other lines, all leading to an easy equality for Black.

What needs to be understood is that I cannot find any of Stadelman's games with the 3...Nge7 line. All extant games (1900-1910) do not begin with 1 d4 e5 2 de5 Nc6 3 Nf3 Nge7 but rather with 1 e4 e5 or some other opening. So, in the absence of games, I can only assume it was analyses by Stadelman.

As for the year when the original article was published, well, I really have no idea. Nimzovich's "My System" was published in 1936, so that might be a clue. Though the original article might have been published prior to 1936 and inserted into the book later...

The Englund Gambit tournament took place between December 1932 and January 1933 in Stockholm, Sweden. It started out 1 d4 e5 2 de5 3 Nf3 Qe7 4 Qd5 and was directed by Karl Anton Englund. You see, Englund did not invent 3...Qe7; rather, he directed the first Englund Gambit thematic tournament. 

I wonder if Stadelman saw games from the tournament and proposed 3...Nge7 as an alternative to 3...Qe7 ? Or was it independent analyses that had nothing to do with Englund's tournament? Will we ever know?

S. L. Stadelman was the Franklin Chess Club champion in 1907 and 1908. His ancestry was Swiss-German and German. Not sure of his death date, but he was born in 1881. Stadelman lies buried in a church cemetery in Ardmore, Pennsylvania.

If anyone has more information about SLS, it would be appreciated.   
  
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #96 - 10/03/08 at 22:00:07
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drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 14:57:17:
Gambit wrote on 10/03/08 at 14:29:40:
Sounds interesting... but is this star-naming thing for real? Or is it just a gimmick to make a few dollar$?



Both.



More of a gimmick, actually. 

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/mystery_monday_030915.html




  
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drkodos
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #95 - 10/03/08 at 14:57:17
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Gambit wrote on 10/03/08 at 14:29:40:
Sounds interesting... but is this star-naming thing for real? Or is it just a gimmick to make a few dollar$?



Both.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Gambit
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #94 - 10/03/08 at 14:29:40
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Sounds interesting... but is this star-naming thing for real? Or is it just a gimmick to make a few dollar$?
  
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drkodos
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #93 - 10/03/08 at 00:19:28
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Lev:  Are you interested in having a star named after you?  Much more prestigious than a chess opening!  Imagine...a whole world with your own eponymic idealogy awaits for you here:  http://www.starnamer.net/


One day people may even colonize your world!  



  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Anyone writing Starting Out, the Englund Gambit?
Reply #92 - 10/02/08 at 06:37:31
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Names of openings are not always a logical choice. Sometimes it's attribued to a city, a country...Sometimes to a nickname as "Halloween-Gambit", "Dracula-Frankenstein" ,"Stonewall", Hedgehog", etc, but it's sometimes the name of the first "known" guy who played the line, or the first strong player who played it, or the player who popularized it, generally after having played that at master level.

So that's really not always the same logic...
  
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