ChessPub Forum - Through the Benko

ubiyca

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Re: Through the Benko
Reply #10 - 09/08/08 at 18:55:33

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Markovich wrote on 09/07/08 at 20:12:46:

Sleepy kitten wrote on 09/06/08 at 16:17:32:

Hello!

I used to play the Modern Benoni as Black but the MML is really a problem (although I should say it is only a problem in home analysis since no opponent has yet played it against me, but this will not be forever).

I am thinking about the Benko gambit but I am a bit worried by 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5 3 d5 b5 4 cxb5 a6 5 bxa6 g6 6 Nc3 Bxa6 7 e4 Bxf1 8 Kxf1 d6 9 g3 Bg7 10 Kg2 o-o 11 Nf3 Nbd7 12 Re1.

(Several transpositions are possible but this position is critical).

www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/Pain_and_Anguish_4.html

This article is very pessimistic about Black chances to generate enough play from this position. (I am less concerned by the Fianchetto variation).

Let's suppose I really don't mind a draw with Black as long as it is really a draw (you guess why the MML of the Benoni displeased me). Is the Benko good enough (even for correspondence play)? Or will White, provided he lives through a little early pressure, get a clearly superior position when Black has no other prospect than a long suffering in the hope for a draw? Can Black, ultimately, with best play, equalize in the Benko gambit?

And, more concretely, which is the best move in this position?

Funny this post should be here because I just got done looking at that same article. I think he exaggerates White's chances in a few places, for example 12...Qa5 13.e5 Ng4 14.exd6 exd6 15.Bf4 Rfb8 16.Qe2 and now instead of 16...Qa6 or 16...Nge5, doesn't 16...Rxb2 work for Black?

I think that's just a mistake in their writeup. 16.Re2 is the normal move there, not Qe2, and that's how the Gyimesi-Van Der Weide game continued. Then 16.Re2 Qa6 17.Rc1 Nge5 18.Ne5 Ne5 19.Be5 Be5 20.b3 is how they continued.

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exigentsky Senior Member Offline Q Posts: 402 Joined: 05/14/07	Re: Through the Benko Reply #9 - 09/08/08 at 17:24:50	Post Tools	Print Post
	TonyRo wrote on 09/07/08 at 16:33:04: I play experts or above. It's not worth the risk that they know it and you have to sit there waiting for them to offer/accept a draw. Well, the 9. ... b5 line is not the only option. Typical Benoni play works well too if you try the new or revitalized ideas offered by Marin (as LeeRoth mentioned). Black gets reasonable play without the a5 cramp and White players won't be familiar with the new system. With that said, the Benko is a good sound opening too so just pick what you like.


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Markovich

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Re: Through the Benko
Reply #8 - 09/07/08 at 20:12:46

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Sleepy kitten wrote on 09/06/08 at 16:17:32:

Hello!

I used to play the Modern Benoni as Black but the MML is really a problem (although I should say it is only a problem in home analysis since no opponent has yet played it against me, but this will not be forever).

I am thinking about the Benko gambit but I am a bit worried by 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5 3 d5 b5 4 cxb5 a6 5 bxa6 g6 6 Nc3 Bxa6 7 e4 Bxf1 8 Kxf1 d6 9 g3 Bg7 10 Kg2 o-o 11 Nf3 Nbd7 12 Re1.

(Several transpositions are possible but this position is critical).

www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/Pain_and_Anguish_4.html

This article is very pessimistic about Black chances to generate enough play from this position. (I am less concerned by the Fianchetto variation).

Let's suppose I really don't mind a draw with Black as long as it is really a draw (you guess why the MML of the Benoni displeased me). Is the Benko good enough (even for correspondence play)? Or will White, provided he lives through a little early pressure, get a clearly superior position when Black has no other prospect than a long suffering in the hope for a draw? Can Black, ultimately, with best play, equalize in the Benko gambit?

And, more concretely, which is the best move in this position?

Funny this post should be here because I just got done looking at that same article. I think he exaggerates White's chances in a few places, for example 12...Qa5 13.e5 Ng4 14.exd6 exd6 15.Bf4 Rfb8 16.Qe2 and now instead of 16...Qa6 or 16...Nge5, doesn't 16...Rxb2 work for Black?

« Last Edit: 09/08/08 at 00:37:12 by Markovich »

The Great Oz has spoken!

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Alluren YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 33 Joined: 04/21/08	Re: Through the Benko Reply #7 - 09/07/08 at 19:11:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	The variation you mentionned is in my opinion one of the easiest to play for black. You have a very clear plan : Ng4, Qa5, Qa6, Nge5 if h3 is played. The important things are to watch for Bxc3, if correctly played you get a superior endgame. The d3 square is very important as well as c4 and in an other way f3. You should be almost never afraid of trading queens since it is the main controller of the d3 square. After that c4 + Nd3 will be devastating. One other planned mentionned is Ra6, Qa8, e6 which is effective against this variation due to the weakness of the white king. If you're new to the benko, I would recommend you to work a lot the declined variations, there are a lot more played. Although it's soooooo less fun to study. I personnaly gave up the benko, due to this, but it's a matter of style ...


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: Through the Benko Reply #6 - 09/07/08 at 17:43:31	Post Tools	Print Post
	As far as the Benoni goes, one option is to play it only through the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 move order. This means having to learn something else against 3.Nc3 -- I'd suggest the Nimzo -- but avoids the MML (as well as the Taimanov and others). As for the MML, I've never been a fan of 9..b5. I usually play a set-up with ..Nh5 instead. White is better in these lines, but my view is that if you're going to play the Benoni "straight-up," then you have to be willing to take on an inferior position where you still have chances to fight. I should note that in the current issue of CBM, Marin tries to make more conventional set-ups work. He suggests 9..a6 10.a4 Nbd7 11.0-0 Re8 12.Bf4 Qe7 13.Re1 Nh5 14.Bh2 b6 for Black. It's worth a shot; time will tell whether this is an answer or not. As for the Benko, I agree with MNb. The castle-by-hand variation doesn't seem as terrible for Black as Van der Weide makes out. GMs seem to think the fianchetto variation is more of a test (except Yuri Shulman who plays a version of the castle-by-hand variation with Nge2). But far more importantly, whatever the ultimate theoretical verdict, the castle-by-hand variation gives Black exactly the sort of play he wants. I think you'll find most of your oppenents avoid it. If not, I like the idea of ..Ra6, ..Qa7 and, if White blockades the queenside, then ..e6. Although I think ..Qa5 and ..Ng4 (if White avoids h3) are probably also OK for Black.


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TonyRo God Member Offline I'm gonna crack your skull! Posts: 1830 Location: Cleveland, OH Joined: 11/26/07 Gender:	Re: Through the Benko Reply #5 - 09/07/08 at 16:33:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	I play experts or above. It's not worth the risk that they know it and you have to sit there waiting for them to offer/accept a draw.


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exigentsky Senior Member Offline Q Posts: 402 Joined: 05/14/07	Re: Through the Benko Reply #4 - 09/07/08 at 03:56:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	I suppose, but unless you're playing Experts and above, it's likely that White won't know the theory well and will be too weak to figure things out at the board. Thus, Black's winning chances would be quite good.


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TonyRo God Member Offline I'm gonna crack your skull! Posts: 1830 Location: Cleveland, OH Joined: 11/26/07 Gender:	Re: Through the Benko Reply #3 - 09/07/08 at 02:05:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	Most people don't play 9...b5 because it offers very little winning chances for Black in the 10. Bxb5 line. Of course, theoretically this is fine, but most MB players obviously don't like assessments such as =.


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exigentsky Senior Member Offline Q Posts: 402 Joined: 05/14/07	Re: Through the Benko Reply #2 - 09/07/08 at 00:40:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	A little off-topic, but why don't you like the 9. ...b5 line against the MML? When I was preparing against the Modern Benoni, I couldn't find anything meaningful in either Nxb5 or Bxb5. However, I improved on many lines for Black myself. Since chess is a draw and sharp systems force greater accuracy in order not to lose, best play tends to be closer at hand and Black will equalize by force many times since his path to equality tends to be clearer. Unfortunately, for me, 9. ...b5 seemed to reinforce this idea. Although, I suppose White is still very slightly better.
	« Last Edit: 09/07/08 at 03:52:23 by exigentsky »

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10758 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Through the Benko Reply #1 - 09/07/08 at 00:10:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	First of all you must realise that GM Van der Weide is very Dutch and loves to practice self-chastisement for the sake of entertainment; objective truth is less important. I hope you appreciate this kind of humour, based on gross exaggeration. A little database research teached me that Black does not do that badly overall after 12.Re1, though the Volga is far less popular on toplevel. And Van der Weide is right of course: there is a reason for it. But isn't this true for openings like the Pirc and the Alekhine as well? As a sideline, I probably must explain another little joke. Kuijf is the ideal person to introduce the much, much stronger Portisch (yeah, he is waiting for Kuijf for some lessons on opening theory) to the Schara-von Hennig Gambit, because Kuijf has played it as Black for a long time with considerable success. So you should get rid of Van der Weide's weird jokes and look what remains: a serious warning. Make sure you are ready to meet this particular line. Van der Weide's play can be improved; the question is if it's enough. My instinct tells me that either 12...Ra6 or 12...Ra7 is best. Study the two Sziebert games; there is also one by Brüstkern and see what you think. You also should take another look at 12...Ng4. Please read Van der Weide closely: "relying on an idea by Erik Knoppert). I have met that guy looong ago, he is a strong amateur, but not that likely to have the last word in a critical variation. Van der Weide implies that there might be other, better ideas than 13...Qa5 etcetera. But it's up to you to find it, because he doesn't feel like.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Sleepy kitten

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Through the Benko
09/06/08 at 16:17:32

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Hello!

I used to play the Modern Benoni as Black but the MML is really a problem (although I should say it is only a problem in home analysis since no opponent has yet played it against me, but this will not be forever).

I am thinking about the Benko gambit but I am a bit worried by 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5 3 d5 b5 4 cxb5 a6 5 bxa6 g6 6 Nc3 Bxa6 7 e4 Bxf1 8 Kxf1 d6 9 g3 Bg7 10 Kg2 o-o 11 Nf3 Nbd7 12 Re1.

(Several transpositions are possible but this position is critical).

www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/Pain_and_Anguish_4.html

This article is very pessimistic about Black chances to generate enough play from this position. (I am less concerned by the Fianchetto variation).

Let's suppose I really don't mind a draw with Black as long as it is really a draw (you guess why the MML of the Benoni displeased me). Is the Benko good enough (even for correspondence play)? Or will White, provided he lives through a little early pressure, get a clearly superior position when Black has no other prospect than a long suffering in the hope for a draw? Can Black, ultimately, with best play, equalize in the Benko gambit?

And, more concretely, which is the best move in this position?

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