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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C42-C43: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :) (Read 42188 times)
drkodos
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #26 - 10/07/08 at 22:49:10
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TopNotch wrote on 10/07/08 at 22:36:25:
Kaziglub wrote on 10/04/08 at 19:37:57:
RandomPatzer wrote on 10/04/08 at 10:32:00:
16. Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 0-0 19.Qd3! intending 19...Bc5+ 20.Kc1 Ba3+ 21.Kd2
16. Bxc7 Rc5 17.Bxd5 0-0 18.Ra1
16. Bxc7 dxc4 17.Bxa5 Qxa5 18.Qd7+ Kf8 19.Qxb7
16. Bxc7 Ra7 17.Qxd5

all look completely winning for white to me. What am I missing?

something guy, come on !  Smiley


1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3 a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Kxa2 axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Kb2 Qa8 15.Bc4 d5 16.Bxc7 0-0! 17.Bxa5 Nxa5 18.Ne5 Ba3+ 19.Kb1 Nxc4 20.Nxc4 dxc4 21.Qd7 b5 22.Rd5 b4 23.Qb5 bxc3 24.Qa5 Rb8+ 25.Ka2 Qb7! 26.Rb5 (26.Kxa3 Qb2+ 27.Ka4 Qa2 Mate; 26.Qxa3 Qxd5 27.Qxc3 Qb7-+) 26...Qxb5 27.Qxb5 Rxb5 28.Kxa3 Rb2 29.Re1 f5 30.Re2 Kf7 And Black is clearly better.

That's what you are missing.

The ball would now appear to be in White's court, but as a supporter of the White side in this variation, I can confide that there is plenty room for improvement. Indeed I have a few such improvements handy, just waiting to be sprung on those foolhardy enough to enter this suicidal pawn grab line.

Sadly few players have the cojones to play this way in OTB chess.

Toppy
Smiley  


There are some of us.  Smiley
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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TopNotch
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #25 - 10/07/08 at 22:36:25
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Kaziglub wrote on 10/04/08 at 19:37:57:
RandomPatzer wrote on 10/04/08 at 10:32:00:
16. Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 0-0 19.Qd3! intending 19...Bc5+ 20.Kc1 Ba3+ 21.Kd2
16. Bxc7 Rc5 17.Bxd5 0-0 18.Ra1
16. Bxc7 dxc4 17.Bxa5 Qxa5 18.Qd7+ Kf8 19.Qxb7
16. Bxc7 Ra7 17.Qxd5

all look completely winning for white to me. What am I missing?

something guy, come on !  Smiley


1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3 a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Kxa2 axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Kb2 Qa8 15.Bc4 d5 16.Bxc7 0-0! 17.Bxa5 Nxa5 18.Ne5 Ba3+ 19.Kb1 Nxc4 20.Nxc4 dxc4 21.Qd7 b5 22.Rd5 b4 23.Qb5 bxc3 24.Qa5 Rb8+ 25.Ka2 Qb7! 26.Rb5 (26.Kxa3 Qb2+ 27.Ka4 Qa2 Mate; 26.Qxa3 Qxd5 27.Qxc3 Qb7-+) 26...Qxb5 27.Qxb5 Rxb5 28.Kxa3 Rb2 29.Re1 f5 30.Re2 Kf7 And Black is clearly better.

That's what you are missing.

The ball would now appear to be in White's court, but as a supporter of the White side in this variation, I can confide that there is plenty room for improvement. Indeed I have a few such improvements handy, just waiting to be sprung on those foolhardy enough to enter this suicidal pawn grab line.

Sadly few players have the cojones to play this way in OTB chess.

Toppy
Smiley  
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Kaziglub
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #24 - 10/07/08 at 18:57:55
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Strategy_Rules wrote on 10/07/08 at 10:09:39:
If Kramnik chooses 2..Nf6, maybe Anand will play the 4.Nc4 line !?

I don't think that 4.Nc4 is really threatening, but will Kramnik play 2...Nf6? I 'm not so sure after all...
Or maybe 2...Nf6 3.d4!? will be discussed...
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #23 - 10/07/08 at 10:09:39
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If Kramnik chooses 2..Nf6, maybe Anand will play the 4.Nc4 line !?
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #22 - 10/04/08 at 19:42:38
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One line is 16.Bxc7 b6!? (not the best i think) 17.Bxd5 Rb5+! 18.Bb3 Qa3+ 19. Kb1 0-0 (with the idea Ra8 -+) 20. Qc1! Qa7 21.Qb2 Ra8, white seems better but nothing winning black want to play Ra5 with very good compensations.
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #21 - 10/04/08 at 19:37:57
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RandomPatzer wrote on 10/04/08 at 10:32:00:
16. Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 0-0 19.Qd3! intending 19...Bc5+ 20.Kc1 Ba3+ 21.Kd2
16. Bxc7 Rc5 17.Bxd5 0-0 18.Ra1
16. Bxc7 dxc4 17.Bxa5 Qxa5 18.Qd7+ Kf8 19.Qxb7
16. Bxc7 Ra7 17.Qxd5

all look completely winning for white to me. What am I missing?

something guy, come on !  Smiley
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #20 - 10/04/08 at 10:32:00
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16. Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5 Ba3+ 18.Kb1 0-0 19.Qd3! intending 19...Bc5+ 20.Kc1 Ba3+ 21.Kd2
16. Bxc7 Rc5 17.Bxd5 0-0 18.Ra1
16. Bxc7 dxc4 17.Bxa5 Qxa5 18.Qd7+ Kf8 19.Qxb7
16. Bxc7 Ra7 17.Qxd5

all look completely winning for white to me. What am I missing?
  
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Kaziglub
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #19 - 10/04/08 at 08:51:31
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MNb wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:23:56:
Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4

7.Be3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3 a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Kxa2 (12.Ra1 axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0) 12...axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxd5 Ba3+ 17.Kb1 Bd6µ

7...Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3
10.c4 0-0 11.Qc3 Qc8 12.Rd5 (12.Qa3 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 d5-+) 12...a5 13.Qa3 Nb4³

10...a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Ra1
12.Kxa2 axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5+-

12...axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0 19.Be3 Bf6 20.Nd2 Ra8 21.Ke2 Nc4 22.Nxc4 Qxc4+ 23.Kf3 Qd5+ ½-½

drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:16:07:
and you can easily see for yourself why the Bishop cannot be captured with the King!


Apparently not me, but I admit that I haven't tried very hard. Currrently I don't have time to delve into this. So if Drkodos is so nice to help me see the obvious?!


16.Bxc7 is a good move in the 12.Kxa2 variation but not sufficient for an advantage to white. 12.Ra1 is, i think, definitively the move.
  
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drkodos
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #18 - 10/03/08 at 20:57:48
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MNb wrote on 10/03/08 at 19:55:29:
drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 17:55:08:
In your notes to 12 Ra1 I think perhaps after 12.Kxb2 axb3 13. Kb3 a good move for Black is 13. .... Na5+ ! I thinks it is better than the rook lift.  Where is the White King going?  Look at position of the White Queen....there is also a devastating fork of the royals looming on the horizon.  


Equally quickly: 13...Na5+ 14.Kb2 (only move) 0-0 15.Rb1 and the King finds a safe square on c1.



You are correct.    Smiley   But I give a  Cry for my blindfold skilz.

I still like Black's chances here with the exposed White King, though.   This is a lame excuse of course, but it took me a while to "see" the f1 Bishop controlling c4 square.  


  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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MNb
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #17 - 10/03/08 at 19:55:29
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drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 17:55:08:
In your notes to 12 Ra1 I think perhaps after 12.Kxb2 axb3 13. Kb3 a good move for Black is 13. .... Na5+ ! I thinks it is better than the rook lift.  Where is the White King going?  Look at position of the White Queen....there is also a devastating fork of the royals looming on the horizon.  


Equally quickly: 13...Na5+ 14.Kb2 (only move) 0-0 15.Rb1 and the King finds a safe square on c1.
  

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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #16 - 10/03/08 at 18:13:14
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About Anand-Kramnik match I think it is going to one of the most boring matches ever played. Both players are out of shape and Petroff is more or less a forced draw at high level. Anand has played Nc3 varation before and so has Topalov so its a good move.
  
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drkodos
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #15 - 10/03/08 at 17:55:08
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MNb wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:23:56:
Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4

7.Be3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3 a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Kxa2 (12.Ra1 axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0) 12...axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxd5 Ba3+ 17.Kb1 Bd6µ

7...Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3
10.c4 0-0 11.Qc3 Qc8 12.Rd5 (12.Qa3 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 d5-+) 12...a5 13.Qa3 Nb4³

10...a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Ra1
12.Kxa2 axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5+-

12...axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0 19.Be3 Bf6 20.Nd2 Ra8 21.Ke2 Nc4 22.Nxc4 Qxc4+ 23.Kf3 Qd5+ ½-½

drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:16:07:
and you can easily see for yourself why the Bishop cannot be captured with the King!


Apparently not me, but I admit that I haven't tried very hard. Currrently I don't have time to delve into this. So if Drkodos is so nice to help me see the obvious?!



In your notes to 12 Ra1 I think perhaps after 12.Kxb2 axb3 13. Kb3 a good move for Black is 13. .... Na5+ ! I thinks it is better than the rook lift.  Where is the White King going?  Look at position of the White Queen....there is also a devastating fork of the royals looming on the horizon.  

Currently sitting in cafe without board in front of me, so forgive the inexactitude because my blindfold skills are not that great.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #14 - 10/03/08 at 15:29:50
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wow!  thank you very much drkodos and MNb for the reply. that is quite the line. never seen it before and I've played over many games in the Nc3 line...

interesting...
  
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #13 - 10/03/08 at 15:23:56
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Kleijn,C - Van Delft,M [C42]
NEDchT 0708 Meesterklasse KNSB (7), 2008

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4

7.Be3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3 a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Kxa2 (12.Ra1 axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0) 12...axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxd5 Ba3+ 17.Kb1 Bd6µ

7...Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 10.b3
10.c4 0-0 11.Qc3 Qc8 12.Rd5 (12.Qa3 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 d5-+) 12...a5 13.Qa3 Nb4³

10...a5 11.Kb2 a4 12.Ra1
12.Kxa2 axb3+ 13.Kxb3 Ra5 14.Bc4 Qa8 15.Kb2 d5 16.Bxc7 b6 17.Bxd5+-

12...axb3 13.cxb3 Bxb3 14.Rxa8 Qxa8 15.Kxb3 Qa1 16.Qc1 Na5+ 17.Kc2 Qa4+ 18.Kd3 0-0 19.Be3 Bf6 20.Nd2 Ra8 21.Ke2 Nc4 22.Nxc4 Qxc4+ 23.Kf3 Qd5+ ½-½

drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:16:07:
and you can easily see for yourself why the Bishop cannot be captured with the King!


Apparently not me, but I admit that I haven't tried very hard. Currrently I don't have time to delve into this. So if Drkodos is so nice to help me see the obvious?!
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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drkodos
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Re: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6! :)
Reply #12 - 10/03/08 at 15:16:07
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John Hall wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:08:32:
drkodos wrote on 10/02/08 at 15:30:35:
ANDREW BRETT wrote on 10/01/08 at 17:48:41:
new in chess's latest yearbook looks at 5nc3 in detail - both be3/bf4 with black trying lines with bxa2 and also chukky's qf6 idea . hope that assists !



I'm a bit bummed that the Bxa2 cat is now out of the bag.  Scored a few points with that, and always enjoyed the look of bewilderment opponents had when they thought I was Hang-Fischering the Bishop.



If you don't mind (since the cat is already out of the bag!)

Could you please point me to a sample game which illustrates the successful execution of the Bxa2 idea?





Kleijn-Van Delft  2008   

Not the highest level game, but good enough for the ideology.  I believe 12. Ra1 is almost forced and you can easily see for yourself why the Bishop cannot be captured with the King!  There are some other games in the NIC YB survey, but I currently do not have access to them.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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