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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Classical Bird's -- important lines (Read 12192 times)
MNb
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #18 - 10/04/08 at 21:34:08
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drkodos wrote on 10/04/08 at 19:57:05:
Also, I do not believe that most of my opponents are the same playing strength as you.


Smiley My ICCF-rating is slightly below 2000 and I have lost some points last few years ....  Sad
Keith Hayward has played both 1.f4 and 1...f5 OTB and in corr. chess.
  

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drkodos
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #17 - 10/04/08 at 19:57:05
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MNb wrote on 10/03/08 at 15:37:13:
drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 14:56:40:
True, but 2.e4 is very double edged, and usually not the type of positions Birders are hunting for.  Especially the reverse, pass the dutchie-on-the-right-hand-side types.

2. ....fxe4 and the game is on!


Dunno, those who play the Dutch are usually quite an aggressive breed. At the other hand I can only speak for myself. Still it is a bit peculiar that your opponents were so surprised to meet 1...f5. It's not exactly a new move; I have seen it called the Swiss Defence.


Yes, but those that play the Bird are perhaps not so aggressive as they are eccentric?  Just a theory, of course ......  Off hand, I do not know anyone that plays both Bird's Opening as White and Dutch as Black!  (not that they do not exist, just that they do not exist in my limited circle)

Also, I do not believe that most of my opponents are the same playing strength as you.  In these US Swiss Open Tournaments one often plays some "softer" opponents in the first several rounds.  (meaning there are a lot of 2400 vs 2000 types of match-ups.)  I have never had opponent over 2200 use Bird's Opening against me and the only time I played T Taylor I had white and he did not play the Dutch vs my d4....I think he Benko'd me instead, but it was over 15 years ago so I don't remember all that well, actually....

Cool
  

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MNb
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #16 - 10/03/08 at 15:37:13
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drkodos wrote on 10/03/08 at 14:56:40:
True, but 2.e4 is very double edged, and usually not the type of positions Birders are hunting for.  Especially the reverse, pass the dutchie-on-the-right-hand-side types.

2. ....fxe4 and the game is on!


Dunno, those who play the Dutch are usually quite an aggressive breed. At the other hand I can only speak for myself. Still it is a bit peculiar that your opponents were so surprised to meet 1...f5. It's not exactly a new move; I have seen it called the Swiss Defence.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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drkodos
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #15 - 10/03/08 at 14:56:40
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MNb wrote on 10/03/08 at 01:05:52:
1.f4 f5 2.e4 and I don't see any blockade ....



True, but 2.e4 is very double edged, and usually not the type of positions Birders are hunting for.  Especially the reverse, pass the dutchie-on-the-right-hand-side types.

2. ....fxe4 and the game is on!

I've only punted f5 twice and both times my opponents burned much time and did not play 2.e4 (which I think is the most logical move.)
  

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MNb
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #14 - 10/03/08 at 01:05:52
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drkodos wrote on 10/02/08 at 23:13:42:
I have found 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 to be a quite promising line for Black, and one that White is usually ill prepared for.  The Knight goes to c6, the Queen to d7 and rapid Queenside castling gives Black very aggressive play against the weakened White Kingside.


I have met this a few times OTB with colours reversed. I played ...e6-e5 combined with queenside play, with excellent results. So I can't imagine that 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 should be a problem.

1.f4 f5 2.e4 and I don't see any blockade ....
  

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drkodos
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #13 - 10/02/08 at 23:13:42
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I have found 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 to be a quite promising line for Black, and one that White is usually ill prepared for.  The Knight goes to c6, the Queen to d7 and rapid Queenside castling gives Black very aggressive play against the weakened White Kingside.

Also, I never see any love for 1. ....f5 !?, an underrated blockading move that takes away a lot of White's main plans....
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #12 - 10/02/08 at 11:44:37
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le_gars wrote on 10/01/08 at 20:15:58:
(1) 2 …g6 3 e3 Bg7 4 Be2 Nf6 5 0-0 0-0 6 d3 c5
Here I play 7.Nc3. I wrote a technical note (sorry, it's in french) about this move here :
http://ouverturebird.free.fr/fichetechnique11.php

Awesome, thanks very much!

Quote:
(2) 2 …Nf6 3 e3 Bg4 4 h3

I disagree with linksspringer here. Maybe I am wrong but I think Danielsen never played 4.h3 because on 2...Nf6 he plays 3.g3.
And I don't know why but there seems to be a big difference between playing 1.f4 d5  2.Nf3 Bg4  3.e3 Nd7  4.h3 (Danielsen variation), and 1.f4 d5  2.Nf3 Nf6  3.e3 Bg4  4.h3. In the first case I always had a good game after h3 and in the second case ... well ... too many losses.

That is surprising! I would expect
(a) 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 3.e3 Nd7 4.h3 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 Ngf6 6.g4 and
(b) 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bg4 4.h3 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 Nbd7 6.g4
to be rather similar lines. In line (b), which fifth move alternative to Nbd7 is giving you problems?
  
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #11 - 10/01/08 at 20:15:58
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(1) 2 …g6 3 e3 Bg7 4 Be2 Nf6 5 0-0 0-0 6 d3 c5
Here I play 7.Cc3. I wrote a technical note (sorry, it's in french) about this move here :
http://ouverturebird.free.fr/fichetechnique11.php

(2) 2 …Nf6 3 e3 Bg4 4 h3

I disagree with linksspringer here. Maybe I am wrong but I think Danielsen never played 4.h3 because on 2...Nf6 he plays 3.g3.
And I don't know why but there seems to be a big difference between playing 1.f4 d5  2.Nf3 Bg4  3.e3 Nd7  4.h3 (Danielsen variation), and 1.f4 d5  2.Nf3 Nf6  3.e3 Bg4  4.h3. In the first case I always had a good game after h3 and in the second case ... well ... too many losses.

(3) 2 …g6 3 e3 Bg7 4 Be2 Nh6!?

I played this variation once with white against a 2150 and I didn't have any real problem after 5.0-0 0-0  6.d3 c5  7.e4!? Nc6  8.c3 d4  9.h3!? f5  10.e5. But against a stronger player it would certainly be more difficult.

(4) 2 …Nf6 3 e3 c5   (5) 2 …Nf6 3 e3 e6!?

Sure that's a problem. Here I play 4.b3, Bb2 waiting for ...Nc6 from Black before moving the Bf1. But if Black play 4...g6 it may lead to an equal variation. But fully playable.
In case (4) I played once 4.b4?! but i think it's a rather bad move.

  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #10 - 09/30/08 at 13:48:21
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[quote author=nmga link=1222529442/0#7 date=1222763241] I don't know what the answer is (buy the KG book, probably!).
[/quote]
Absolutely not. The articles contain a lot of stuff not to be found in TJ's books.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #9 - 09/30/08 at 12:38:48
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Brilliant! Thank you! Got it and bookmarked it.  Smiley
  
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #8 - 09/30/08 at 11:50:46
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[quote author=nmga link=1222529442/0#7 date=1222763241]
@ MNb

Thank you. I hadn't made the leap of realising Thomas's site could have something on this. But alas! -- when I visit it I cannot see a 'Just a Rush' link. In fact, most of the page is covered with a grey section containing links to the KG and anti-French books and a blog. I seem to recall someone else commenting on this a while back and I don't know what the answer is (buy the KG book, probably!).
[/quote]

Try this direct link:
[url]http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/rushandpush.html[/url]
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #7 - 09/30/08 at 08:27:21
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@ linksspringer

Thanks for this. I actually had the site marked but haven't looked at it yet! I think having something strong worked out against the From is essential for a Bird player's confidence!


@ MNb

Thank you. I hadn't made the leap of realising Thomas's site could have something on this. But alas! -- when I visit it I cannot see a 'Just a Rush' link. In fact, most of the page is covered with a grey section containing links to the KG and anti-French books and a blog. I seem to recall someone else commenting on this a while back and I don't know what the answer is (buy the KG book, probably!).
  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #6 - 09/30/08 at 02:27:59
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[quote author=nmga link=1222529442/0#4 date=1222726240]
Against the From, I would prob. wimp out with 3 Nf3 (maybe with later c2--c3). There's some useful From stuff (with 2 ...Nc6) in Carsten's latest update -- I might even drop him a line about the mystery variations!
[/quote]

1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.Nf3 dxe5 4.e4 (I suppose you don't intend 4.Nxe5 Bd6 5.Nf3) is treated here:

http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/

Click chess
Click King's Gambit
Click Just a Rush and Push I and/or II.

but maybe you had bookmarked this as well.
Thanks for the compliments.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #5 - 09/29/08 at 22:49:32
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Regarding the From 1 f4 e5 2 fxe5 Nc6 3 Nf3 g5 I believe 4 h3! keeps a White advantage... ever since I lost as Black in this line Cheesy

Chesspub member le_gars has an excellent page here:
http://ouverturebird.free.fr/fichetechnique2.php
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Classical Bird's -- important lines
Reply #4 - 09/29/08 at 22:10:40
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Hi linksspringer -- great to have you as an avian ally!

My repertoire isn't really formed yet but I'm drawn to (1.f4 d5 2.Nf3):

(A) 2 ...Nf6 3 e3 g6 4 b4 -- why not, if they allow it!

(B) 2 ...Nf6 3 e3 Bg4 4 h3 probably but might experiment with 4 Be2

(C) 2 ...g6 3 e3 (prob. with 7 Nc3 or 7 a4) -- haven't looked at 3 c4 yet but will give it a butcher's! Ditto with your 2 ...e6/2 ...c5 suggestions -- thanks! (Not sure yet about Ward's 4 ...Nh6!?)

Against the From, I would prob. wimp out with 3 Nf3 (maybe with later c2--c3). There's some useful From stuff (with 2 ...Nc6) in Carsten's latest update -- I might even drop him a line about the mystery variations!


  
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