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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties (Read 38827 times)
Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #12 - 10/08/08 at 23:44:15
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Matemax -- a very to-the-point post I felt! -- with the sole proviso that, in view of TopNotch's equally appreciable point, it surely needs to be said that f2--f4 can indeed be a deadly plan [i]but[/i] only in the right circumstances (i.e where Black can't just strongpoint e5!).


@John Hall -- My immediate thoughts on 5 ...h5 are:

(1) Mightn't this be a bit inflexible since ...Be7 and ...Nbd7 are probably coming, ...h5 only possibly coming? I guess that, logically speaking, this raises the questions: (a) can Black usefully delay ...Be7 given that doing so prevents him carrying out the typical ...Nbd7/...Nf8 manoeuvre?; (b) can he deploy his QN otherwise (e.g. ...a7--a6 meeting a2--a4 with ...a5 then ...Na6)?

(2) If I'm right in thinking that White, in going for either of the two strong plans you mention via the normal move order, can't (for better or worse) advantageously prevent Black from following Donner--Keene, doesn't it follow that 5 ...h5 really only prevents these plans in the same way that they might well be prevented anyway, though it might prevent or at least change Malich's plan (see Malich--Polugayevsky, on which opinion seems to differ)?

(3) More practically, after 5 ...h5 how can Black avoid nagging disadvantage if White aims for 6 h4, 7 g3 and 8 Bh3? This is the plan I would be most worried about, at any rate.

  
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TopNotch
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #11 - 10/08/08 at 23:10:01
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Matemax wrote on 10/08/08 at 20:54:09:
I tried the Czech in a view games about 2 years ago when Nisipeanu brought it up. I like(d) it against aggressive white play when you get your counterchances - but I had a nasty loss against an opponent who simply did nothing - he even allowed me to play b5 for free and won in the end due to his greater space. The Czech improved my understanding of space in chess - if you feel allright in slightly cramped positions its completely OK! On the other hand you have no compensation for your sligth lack of space and therefore I would consider White to be += right from the start. And its not easy equalizing, cause space is persisting - the centre is blocked. The advantage of the Czech is its focus on understanding rather than on memorizing variations. Thinking about a critical approach for White I would also say that playing for f4 could end in difficulties for Black.



Doesn't playing for f4 concede the e5 square to black and consequently allow him counterplay?

Tops Smiley
  

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Matemax
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #10 - 10/08/08 at 20:54:09
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I tried the Czech in a view games about 2 years ago when Nisipeanu brought it up. I like(d) it against aggressive white play when you get your counterchances - but I had a nasty loss against an opponent who simply did nothing - he even allowed me to play b5 for free and won in the end due to his greater space. The Czech improved my understanding of space in chess - if you feel allright in slightly cramped positions its completely OK! On the other hand you have no compensation for your sligth lack of space and therefore I would consider White to be += right from the start. And its not easy equalizing, cause space is persisting - the centre is blocked. The advantage of the Czech is its focus on understanding rather than on memorizing variations. Thinking about a critical approach for White I would also say that playing for f4 could end in difficulties for Black.
  
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MartinC
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #9 - 10/08/08 at 12:47:10
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Been able to check my copy of the book and it was Ward that wrote it. Really it just focuses on g3 & h4 etc vs 5 .. Be7. 5 .. g6/Nbd7 get a brief mention though.

The advice is roughly to treat g6 as you do a KID & 6 g3 vs Nbd7 with some game fragment where white went for Nge2 and a quick f4. Just as an idea though - no in depth treatment as for the main line.
  
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John Hall
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #8 - 10/07/08 at 14:56:07
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A line in the Czech Benoni that facinates me is:

1. d4  Nf6
2. c4  c5
3. d5  e5
4. Nc3  d6
5. e4  h5!?

h5 is generally a very useful move for black in the Czech Benoni as we see from many games using the modern treatment.

Playing it on move 5 is sharply directed against the two "theoretically best" systems against the CB- the g3 systems and the h3, g4 systems.

If white plays 6. h4- who has gained from the mutual advance of the h-pawns. To be honest, I'm not quite sure. Black has pretty much shut down the f4 plan for white- which I find the most dangerous- but his own ...f5 will be more difficult as well.

Also, I am not quite sure if 6. f4 becomes a decent line for white. Normally, after 5 ...Be7 or 5 ...Nbd7, 6. f4 is considered a pretty bad line for white- but the ...h5 move does nothing for black in that line- so maybe it becomes good!?

Anyways- some food for thought- I've played around with the Czech Benoni a fair bit and I like it.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #7 - 10/07/08 at 11:46:38
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Thanks for this. Of course, if Richard Palliser wanted to comment on any of these lines himself, that'd be wonderful!
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #6 - 10/07/08 at 09:35:48
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Can't be certain without checking but that chapter did read much more like Ward wrote it than Palliser.

The chapter does mention other move orders - and doesn't recommend the the g3/h4 idea vs all of them. There's certainly one where black goes g6,Bg7 and white uses some kind of modern main lineish set up instead.

This may well be 5.. Nbd7 but I'd have to check the book to be at all sure.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #5 - 10/07/08 at 09:14:32
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Thanks for this, Andrew. The Niggemann review suggests that the chapter on the Czech Benoni (by Richard Palliser) covers 5 ...Be7 6 g3 0-0 7 h4 (the "Super Extended Fianchetto"), but maybe 5 ...Nbd7 is covered as well?

  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #4 - 10/07/08 at 08:54:26
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I haven't got the book but I think Chris Ward the recent dangerous weapons on the benko/benoni covers one of the lines
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #3 - 10/07/08 at 08:30:17
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Thanks for replies. I'm particularly interested by Marin's recommendation since this seems to be Malich--Polugayevsky, which John Emms suggests holds few terrors for Black. (I presume Martin thinks similarly!) Is this a difference of opinion (and if so who should we agree with!?), or does Marin actually diverge from M--P? (I suppose Black might have one or two other plans, such as completing the manoeuvre ...Nf8--Ng6 before, or without, castling, but I imagine Marin deals with these.)

Meanwhile, late at night, I'd failed to appreciate that after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3 Nf8, 8 Bd3 simply transposes to 6 Bd3 Nbd7 7 Nf3 Nf8 8 h3! Black can defer castling here with 8 or 9 ...h5, when Donner--Keene is sometimes given as the key game (but with 15 Nh7 Rh7 16 Kg2 and a small White edge). Petrosian played 8 ...Bd7 here, but presumably this is no great revelation. I guess in a lot of these positions Black is saying to White 'OK, formally speaking you've got a small edge, but how can you exploit it?'. I'd be interested to know what Martin thinks about this.


  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #2 - 10/07/08 at 02:43:53
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[quote author=nmga link=1223334310/0#0 date=1223334310]I'm trying to improve my knowledge of the Czech Benoni, which is proving fascinating. As usual, I don't think the key lines/ideas are always delineated particularly logically in the literature -- you have to do that work yourself! As an example, in Kasparov's 'roll-up' line (White plays Nf3 and h3 but delays Bd3), why, after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3, is 7 ...Nf8!? so rarely mentioned? -- it seems particularly logical now.
[/quote]

7..Nf8 is the most popular move in my database.  According to Igor Stohl, White keeps a small edge after 8.Bd3 Ng6 9.g3 0-0 10.Bd2 Bd7 11.Qe2 a6 12.h4.  One key in this line for White is not to commit the King too early to either side of the board; it's often safer in the center.

Regards,
LeeRoth
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #1 - 10/07/08 at 01:48:52
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Hi Michael, I have the Martin Czech Benoni DVD, and I think this is one of his best DVDs (and i'm usually not the biggest fan of his work)

Martin's preference for 5... Nbd7 is to preserve the option of g6/Bg7 against g3 plans.

The most annoying line for me is Nf3/Be2/0-0 and White goes Ne1 and f2-f4. Marin covers this in CBM awhile back, thinks White has solid plus.
  
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Michael Ayton
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Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
10/06/08 at 23:05:10
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I'm trying to improve my knowledge of the Czech Benoni, which is proving fascinating. As usual, I don't think the key lines/ideas are always delineated particularly logically in the literature -- you have to do that work yourself! As an example, in Kasparov's 'roll-up' line (White plays Nf3 and h3 but delays Bd3), why, after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3, is 7 ...Nf8!? so rarely mentioned? -- it seems particularly logical now.

I have a more straightforward question to help me on my way (after which I shall post some key lines for discussion). Andrew Martin's DVD apparently implies Black should play (5) ...Nbd7 before (5) ...Be7. Can anyone tell me why (and/or tell me what key lines he considers in the video)? I can see that after 5 ...Nbd7 6 Nge2!? a6 7 a4, 7 ...g6!? is an option (Mamedyarov--Nisipeanu), and also that a ....g6 plan might be possible after 6 g3 or even 6 Nf3; but in what circumstances/precise positions does Black's choice on move five make a difference and why?


  
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