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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties (Read 37562 times)
Oblonskij
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #42 - 10/16/14 at 09:33:21
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I dare say that the listing of the accomplishments of the authors hints a little at the quality of the book. Not to say that you need 2.600 ELO to write a chess book, but there's way too much anecdotal on one author and not at all chess related on the other.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #41 - 10/16/14 at 06:16:21
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No, not really. The book just goes through some games. All the way though too, so too much space on later moves.
Not really in the 'this is a repertoire guide' kinda way at all. Just games, 'black does this, white does this' on occasion. Authors do not seem to have thought about pedagogy at all - how to structure the games to provide repertoire guidance. Do not really get the impression that the authors are strong players either - no insight.
Just a really annoying book. A half-arsed job, if that.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #40 - 10/16/14 at 01:35:09
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Bibs wrote on 10/15/14 at 07:36:52:
The book is disappointing. Don't bother TonyRo. Some games, but no real theory as such. No attempt to push things. Not really an attempt to guide the reader through what to play, just a themed game collection really.
Poor effort, I think.
Still waiting for a decent book to be written on this line.

 
The free sample said one of the author preferred some different setups, some with ...g6, that weren't in Palliser's book on the opening.  I don't suppose the games have insights on ways to make some of the variations more playable?
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #39 - 10/15/14 at 17:08:47
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Gross. What a shame. Thanks for the info!

Angry
  
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Bibs
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #38 - 10/15/14 at 07:36:52
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The book is disappointing. Don't bother TonyRo. Some games, but no real theory as such. No attempt to push things. Not really an attempt to guide the reader through what to play, just a themed game collection really.
Poor effort, I think.
Still waiting for a decent book to be written on this line.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #37 - 10/15/14 at 02:09:02
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If anyone picks this book up and there's reasonable proof that they've figured some stuff out in the main lines discussed here, let me know! I'd like to pick this line back up and mess with it and the intro looked reasonable enough, but I don't trust that there are significant improvements for Black - maybe I'm wrong!

Wink
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #36 - 10/14/14 at 18:07:28
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[quote author=7E7D7771100 link=1223334311/31#31 date=1342194460]...I love it when Black can create a position where White feels he has a certain advantage and an automatic attack, but where with just one false move it can so easily blow up in his face
[/quote]

I don't have much of substance to add, but I don't think many White players think that they have an automatic attack against the Czech Benoni.  Rather as White, I assume that I have a slight edge because I have a space advantage.  I also think that Black's play will be less dynamic than if he had chosen another type of Benoni or a King's Indian--essentially when he still has the option of how to commit his central pawns. 

So I rather feel that I'm going to settle into a longer, maneuvering struggle, with a slower pace of play than a Modern Benoni or King's Indian, but one where my extra space should count for something.  Hardly an automatic attack; more likely a positional/prophylactic squeeze if things go well for me.

Something along these lines I guess, though it's not a Czech Benoni (but the central pawn structure is the same):

[pgn][Event "USSR Championship 1961a"]
[Site "Moscow (RUS)"]
[Date "1961.01.27"]
[EventDate "1961.??.??"]
[Round "11"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian"]
[Black "Eduard Gufeld"]
[ECO "E70"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "75"]

1. c4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e4 O-O 5. Bg5 d6 6. Qd2 c5
7. d5 Qa5 8. Bd3 a6 9. Nge2 e5 10. O-O Nbd7 11. a3 Nh5 12. f3
Bf6 13. Bh6 Ng7 14. g3 Rb8 15. Kh1 Qc7 16. b3 Be7 17. Rab1 Kh8
18. Rb2 Nf6 19. b4 Ng8 20. Be3 f5 21. bxc5 dxc5 22. Rfb1 Nf6
23. Rb6 Bd6 24. Bh6 Rf7 25. Ng1 f4 26. gxf4 Nd7 27. fxe5 Bxe5
28. Re6 b5 29. cxb5 c4 30. Rc6 Qd8 31. Bxc4 Qh4 32. Rc1 Nh5
33. Bg5 Ng3+ 34. Kg2 Nxe4 35. Nxe4 Qxh2+ 36. Kf1 Rxf3+
37. Nxf3 Qh1+ 38. Kf2 1-0[/pgn]

That's my mindset when facing the Czech Benoni.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #35 - 10/14/14 at 09:52:52
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Thanks for this Glenn! I can't wait, esp. to see Chapter 8!
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #34 - 10/13/14 at 19:21:19
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Glenn Snow wrote on 09/19/14 at 14:15:10:
I didn't see this mentioned elsewhere so thought I'd mention there's a new book coming out on the Czech Benoni.

http://www.mongoosepress.com/czech-benoni.htm

It will be interesting to see what the recommend versus some of the critical lines which have been discussed here on the forum.


I noticed yesterday that the aforementioned book is now available on the Forwardchess app (I hear it can vary but the price I saw was $16.99.).
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #33 - 09/19/14 at 14:15:10
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I didn't see this mentioned elsewhere so thought I'd mention there's a new book coming out on the Czech Benoni.

http://www.mongoosepress.com/czech-benoni.htm

It will be interesting to see what the recommend versus some of the critical lines which have been discussed here on the forum.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #32 - 08/20/12 at 23:19:22
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Well, having had some weeks to sober up, I certainly admit to talking over-enthusiastic tosh above! I still don't understand why the ...h5 line should be a scare as the Ng5 plan is surely just better for White. But equally with Finegold's 9 ...0-0, or 9 ...a6, or anything else (including the ML with ...0-0), I don't see how Black gets enough play. Anyone got any (further) thoughts?
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #31 - 07/13/12 at 15:47:40
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I’ve been trying off and on to look at these lines some more, and have certainly learnt a lot, if nothing else! I too love this opening despite its purported ‘passivity’. The chess equivalent of goalhanging perhaps – I love it when Black can create a position where White feels he has a certain advantage and an automatic attack, but where with just one false move it can so easily blow up in his face …

In the …h5 lines, I couldn’t find anything good for Black if White goes Nf3-g5. But how about, instead, a plan of …h6, taking some sting out of White’s h4-h5 and strongpointing some dark squares? Also I’m wondering if Black should [after 6 Bd3 Nbd7 7 Nf3 Nf8 8 h3 Ng6 9 g3] start with 9 …a6!?, for now neither castling nor moving the QB, which might want to go to g4 in one move, e.g. 9 …a6 10 h4 Bg4 11 Be2 h6 12 Nh2 Bd7, with an improved version of lines already looked at. So far after 9 …a6 I’ve looked only at lines with Kf1/Kg2 and the Nd1-Ne3-Nf5 plan, and I wonder if Black can’t defend OK. It seems it’s very hard for White to push kingside pawns without allowing Black to gain real counterplay or at least create a sound fortress. (In one line I looked at where White had played Nf5 and g3-g4, Black played ...Ne7xf5 then …Kh8 and …Bf8, but then despite possessing the g-file White could not attack!) Obviously Black’s plans also include a timely …b5 if allowed.

I’m thinking of something like 9 …a6 10 Kf1 0-0 11 Kg2 (11 h4 Bg4 12 Be2 Qd7) h6 12 Rb1 (12 h4 Bg4 again; I think in some positions Black goes …Bd8 and …Ba5 and maybe …b5) Bd7 13 b4 b6 14 Qe2 Qc8 15 Bd2 (15 Nd1 Re8 [15 …Bd8!?] 16 Ne3 Rb8 17 Nf5 Bf5 18 ef Nf8 19 bc Qc5) Rb8 16 Nd1 Re8 17 Ne3 Bf8, e.g. 18 bc dc 19 Bc3 b5. I hasten to add these are quite hasty thoughts and possibly quite wonky but maybe they can be the trigger to something better …
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #30 - 07/05/12 at 14:57:00
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I've been trying to take inspiration from the games Agdamus--Quinteros, Kargoll--Bezold and Rajcevic--Pujarevic, but surely White was better in these -- maybe the moral is that many strong players find it difficult to play these weird positions even when they have an advantage! Anyway will keep searching! ...
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #29 - 07/05/12 at 14:09:58
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You are assuming they have something in mind at all! I think Palliser admits in his book that with great play from White, he might squeeze something out.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince myself that Black can hold the balance in the Modern Main Lines of the Czech Benoni. If you have any further ideas, I'd love to look at them - I've always loved this opening!
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #28 - 07/05/12 at 13:52:02
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H'mm, yes, I am forced to concede that even in these stodged-up positions engines have something to say! On 14 ...Ne8 (the ending after 14 ...h6 looks the purest masochism!) 15 Bd8, maybe 15 ...Rd8 is better and at least it could get complicated, but it all looks a bit iffy to me ... So what, I wonder, do Finegold, and Palliser, have in mind?
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #27 - 07/05/12 at 12:56:34
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Hi Michael,

My computer seems to think that 11...Qd7 12.Nh2 Bxe2 13.Qxe2 Bd8 14.Bg5! is stronger, e.g.

14...Ne8 15.Bxd8 Qxd8 16.h5 Ne7 17.0-0 h6 18.f4

14...h6 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.Qg4!? Qxg4 17.Nxg4 Bd8 18.Ne3 Ne7 19.Nb5 Ba5+ 20.Ke2 Rfd8 and now moves like 21.h5, 21.Raf1!?, and 21.Kd3!? seem slightly better for White.

Black never seems to be equal, or has anything to look forward to, but he's never that much worse either.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #26 - 07/05/12 at 08:58:57
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Very interesting Tony -- thanks.

In the 9 ...0-0 10 h4!? Bg4 11 Be2 line, my experience with similar Nimzo Defence/Tango positions suggests Black should consider 11 ...Qd7. Then after 12 Nh2 (12 Ng5 Be2 13 Qe2 h6 is less dangerous?) Be2 13 Qe2 something like 13 ...Bd8 14 h5 Ne7 15 h6 g6 16 0-0 Ba5 (a la Old Indian!) might be playable? I guess Black has to watch for f2-f4, but obviously in some positions that can be double-edged, and in others plain bad! Wonder how much work Finegold has done on 9 ...0-0 -- it would be interesting to know. Another threat to it might be 10 Qe2!? and a quick Nd1/Ne3?

I suppose Black can also tweak his move orders, and start with say 9 ...a6 (10 a4 b6) then ...Bd7, possibly following with ...Qc8 and ...h5 but keeping open the option of just ...0-0 instead. Don't know what difference if any that makes. Of course, in all these lines White as well as Black has to manoeuvre patiently and alertly and that can be a pain over the board, as many have found!

Anyone know (without giving away all the contents!) what Richard Palliser's book makes to these lines (or 7 ...0-0 8 h3 a6 9 Qe2)?


  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #25 - 07/05/12 at 03:18:58
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[quote]Thanks for citing this game elsewhere, Markovich -- I [i]guess[/i] you may be referring here to the game Black won after 12 ...0-0!? (N?). Obviously White went wrong near the end in that game, but what about the opening? The game Donner—Keene went 10 …Bd7 (iso 10 …a6), and continued 11 a3 a6 12 Ng5!? Rb8 13 Qe2 Qc7 14 Kf1 Nh7 15 Nh7 Rh7 16 Kg2 with some White edge. So I’m wondering if White should play 11 Ng5 by analogy and follow the same plan (which might include Nd1/Ne3/Nf5?). Of course Black doesn’t have to go …Nh7, but has he better (in either position/comparable positions)?[/quote]

I launched into a fairly extensive analysis of the h3 Czech Benoni lines a year and a half or two years ago, under the influence of my chess hero Larsen. The Ng5 plan comes up a lot, and [b]11.Ng5![/b] indeed seems strongest, and to the point. To me, White looks better after [b]11...0-0 12.0-0 Bd7 13.a4[/b], as I can't find a reasonable plan for Black. Preparing to open the b-file looks logical, but something like [b]13...Rb8 14.a5 b6 15.axb6 Rxb6 [/b]allows White to play Bc2 and b3, followed by working up some kingside play, e.g. [b]16.Qe2 Qc7 17.Nd1 Rfb8 18.Bd2 Qc8 19.Bc2! Ng4 20.b3![/b], when the plan of playing Ne3-f5, followed shortly by g4, looks to bring White a large advantage. Anyway, 9...h5 when White's already played g3 seems dubious to me - I don't get it.

[quote]A second plan for Black (after 6 Bd3 Nbd7 7 Nf3 Nf8 8 h3 Ng6 9 g3) is to play 9 …0-0!? (iso 9 ..h5), as played by Finegold. Then Stohl gives 10 Bd2 Bd7 11 Qe2 a6 12 h4 as slightly better for White (as mentioned above), but this doesn’t look too terrible(?). How I wonder should Black react on 10 Kf1 (iso 10 Bd2), plan Kg2, Qe2 and evt Nd1/Ne3/Nf5? [/quote]

Back then, [b]10.h4![/b] bothered me quite a bit. Stopping h5 with [b]10...Bg4[/b] is dubious on account of [b]11.Be2![/b], when Ng5 is on the cards, offering a favorable minor piece exchange, e.g. [b]11...a6 12.Ng5! Bxe2 13.Qxe2 h6 14.Nf3 Re8[/b] [i](14...h5 15.Ng5 followed by Nd1-e3-f5 seems bad for Black as well)[/i] [b]15.h5 Nf8 16.Nh4![/b] with an edge. Perhaps more logical is [b]10...Re8[/b], though even then [b]11.h5 Nf8 12.h6 g6 13.Kf1!? [/b]seems definitely better for the first player.

[quote]The Modern [i]main line[/i], of course, is to castle on move seven, iso …Nf8. One big challenge to this came in Albrecht-Neikirch, which went 9 Qe2!? Nh5 10 g3 g6 11 Bh6 Ng7 12 g4 Nf6 13 Nd2 Kh8 14 Nf1. Not sure I’d feel happy as Black here but am I too pessimistic? One possible drawback of this main line is that Black has to have a good response to White’s plan of 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3 0-0 8 g4!?, delaying Bd3 (if he doesn’t want to play the transpositional 7 …Nf8). [/quote]

To me, this position seems clearly better for White. I agree!  >:(
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #24 - 07/04/12 at 20:40:05
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[quote]I have an ongoing game in this that has gone 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e5 4.Nc3 d6 5.e4 Nbd7 6.Bd3 Be7 7.Nf3 Nf8 8.h3 Ng6 9.g3 h5 10.h4 a6 11.Nd2 Rb8 12.Nf1.  Hastening the knight to g6 is supposed to be Black's best idea against White's plan, but it seems to me that White has most of the play after g3, h4.  I expect I'll meet 12...Bd7 with 13.a4. [/quote]

Thanks for citing this game elsewhere, Markovich -- I [i]guess[/i] you may be referring here to the game Black won after 12 ...0-0!? (N?). Obviously White went wrong near the end in that game, but what about the opening? The game Donner—Keene went 10 …Bd7 (iso 10 …a6), and continued 11 a3 a6 12 Ng5!? Rb8 13 Qe2 Qc7 14 Kf1 Nh7 15 Nh7 Rh7 16 Kg2 with some White edge. So I’m wondering if White should play 11 Ng5 by analogy and follow the same plan (which might include Nd1/Ne3/Nf5?). Of course Black doesn’t have to go …Nh7, but has he better (in either position/comparable positions)?

A second plan for Black (after 6 Bd3 Nbd7 7 Nf3 Nf8 8 h3 Ng6 9 g3) is to play 9 …0-0!? (iso 9 ..h5), as played by Finegold. Then Stohl gives 10 Bd2 Bd7 11 Qe2 a6 12 h4 as slightly better for White (as mentioned above), but this doesn’t look too terrible(?). How I wonder should Black react on 10 Kf1 (iso 10 Bd2), plan Kg2, Qe2 and evt Nd1/Ne3/Nf5?

The Modern [i]main line[/i], of course, is to castle on move seven, iso …Nf8. One big challenge to this came in Albrecht-Neikirch, which went 9 Qe2!? Nh5 10 g3 g6 11 Bh6 Ng7 12 g4 Nf6 13 Nd2 Kh8 14 Nf1. Not sure I’d feel happy as Black here but am I too pessimistic? One possible drawback of this main line is that Black has to have a good response to White’s plan of 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3 0-0 8 g4!?, delaying Bd3 (if he doesn’t want to play the transpositional 7 …Nf8).

Three plans for Black and three strategic questions! Anyone got any thoughts, or preference as to Black’s best defence against the Modern System?




  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #23 - 12/04/08 at 07:27:29
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Genau wrote on 12/03/08 at 22:28:20:
Hi

I just wanted to hear how you crack the Czech Benoni? Black seems to have a very solid position, but what can white do about it? Any positional or tactical ideas?


I recommend 4.Nc3 d6 5.e4 Be7 6.g3 0-0/Nbd7 7.h4!?, recommended in Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko. Although the main line with 7.Bg2 is also good enough for a small edge if you are familiar with White's middlegame plans.
  

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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #22 - 11/24/08 at 13:17:20
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Alluren wrote on 11/22/08 at 15:56:02:
Hi,

I played the CB for more than 10 years with overall good results. I'll try to give my impressions on it.
First, it's very dangerous to play it against an opponent who is rated higher than 2300. He'll manage to minimize your counter play and will win due to the positional weaknesses of the black position. Against lower rated player, they will try to create a strong attack, and will not handle an energic defense.

From the variations point of view :
There are 3 main setup that black is facing most of time:
1. Nf3, Be2, 0-0
2. Nf3, Bd3, h3 g4
3. Ne2, g3, Bg2

The first is in my opinion the easiest to play against. Simply answer Ne1 or any knight move with Bg5 trading black square bishop which almost kill any plan with f4 because the e5 square would be great for a knight. If no f4 comes black has an easy game after the standard plan : Ne8, g6, Ng7, Nf6, Kh8, Ng8, f5.

The second is very tricky. I never tried playing Nf8, Ng6 but maybe this is the best option. My style of play is more based on the counter attack so I don't mind castling kingside and l let my opponent start a violent attack. I tend to setup my pieces with a6, b6, Ra7. Then depending on white is doing : f6, Rf7, Nf8 or Re8, Nf8. I think black has enough pieces to defend but must be precise and react with a perfect timing. Otherwise black get crushed very quickly.

The third is also tricky from the move order point of view. In my opinon, it's the best setup against the Be7 variation. So I tend to play Nbd7 first, if white go for g3, I go for g6 Bg7 as well with leads to complicated play white pawns of e4 e5 f4 f5 Smiley

It's a fun opening to play but black should be afraid to defend against a violent attack !


I once lost embarassingly to this defense against IM (I think he's a GM now) Ben Finegold, in a last-round situation where a draw would have been worth $700.  Since then, how best to play against it has been a question of interest for me.  In general I think the plan with the bishop on d3 and pawn on h3 is good.  I've never tried the g3, Nge2, f4 plan, which I understand is good also.

I have an ongoing game in this that has gone 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e5 4.Nc3 d6 5.e4 Nbd7 6.Bd3 Be7 7.Nf3 Nf8 8.h3 Ng6 9.g3 h5 10.h4 a6 11.Nd2 Rb8 12.Nf1.  Hastening the knight to g6 is supposed to be Black's best idea against White's plan, but it seems to me that White has most of the play after g3, h4.  I expect I'll meet 12...Bd7 with 13.a4.  
  

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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #21 - 11/22/08 at 16:28:51
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Alluren wrote on 11/22/08 at 15:56:02:
The second is very tricky. I never tried playing Nf8, Ng6 but maybe this is the best option. My style of play is more based on the counter attack so I don't mind castling kingside and l let my opponent start a violent attack. I tend to setup my pieces with a6, b6, Ra7. Then depending on white is doing : f6, Rf7, Nf8 or Re8, Nf8. I think black has enough pieces to defend but must be precise and react with a perfect timing. Otherwise black get crushed very quickly.


MNb - Bito, CL/2007/FT1

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 d6 4.Nc3 e5 5.e4 Be7 6.h3 Nbd7 7.Nf3 Nf8 8.a3 Ng6 9.Bd3 O-O 10.b4 Nh5 11.g3 Nf6 12.Be3 b6 13.g4 Bd7 14.Rb1 h6 15.bxc5 bxc5 16.Qd2 Nh7

I thought Black was comfortable here, even though I went on to win.
  

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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #20 - 11/22/08 at 15:56:02
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Hi,

I played the CB for more than 10 years with overall good results. I'll try to give my impressions on it.
First, it's very dangerous to play it against an opponent who is rated higher than 2300. He'll manage to minimize your counter play and will win due to the positional weaknesses of the black position. Against lower rated player, they will try to create a strong attack, and will not handle an energic defense.

From the variations point of view :
There are 3 main setup that black is facing most of time:
1. Nf3, Be2, 0-0
2. Nf3, Bd3, h3 g4
3. Ne2, g3, Bg2

The first is in my opinion the easiest to play against. Simply answer Ne1 or any knight move with Bg5 trading black square bishop which almost kill any plan with f4 because the e5 square would be great for a knight. If no f4 comes black has an easy game after the standard plan : Ne8, g6, Ng7, Nf6, Kh8, Ng8, f5.

The second is very tricky. I never tried playing Nf8, Ng6 but maybe this is the best option. My style of play is more based on the counter attack so I don't mind castling kingside and l let my opponent start a violent attack. I tend to setup my pieces with a6, b6, Ra7. Then depending on white is doing : f6, Rf7, Nf8 or Re8, Nf8. I think black has enough pieces to defend but must be precise and react with a perfect timing. Otherwise black get crushed very quickly.

The third is also tricky from the move order point of view. In my opinon, it's the best setup against the Be7 variation. So I tend to play Nbd7 first, if white go for g3, I go for g6 Bg7 as well with leads to complicated play white pawns of e4 e5 f4 f5 Smiley

It's a fun opening to play but black should be afraid to defend against a violent attack !
  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #19 - 10/11/08 at 14:22:45
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Thanks Andrew -- this looks very interesting.

I'll post some more Czech Benoni thoughts/variations soon!
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #18 - 10/11/08 at 10:07:48
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Michael - back on 2 nf3 - in the dangerous weapons there is an idea based on e6 and b5 a sort of pseudo blumenfeld.

Also  in the SOS version 8 - 1 d4 nf6 2 nf3 c5 3 d5 d6 4 nc3 bf5 !? is something to look at !
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #17 - 10/10/08 at 06:52:26
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nlyda wrote on 10/09/08 at 14:04:06:
Has anyone viewed the ABC's of the Czech Benoni by Andrew Martin.  I am interested in this CD and what exactly is on it.  I am not sure it if is just a dvd or if it has a games database and fritz reader as well.  Please let me know about your impressions and is it worth buying?

It has video lessons in the fritz reader format (i.e. there's a little video box next to the board in the fritz reader, you can stop it, use analysis engines etc.).

See some of the comments above, with which I agree, I watched it and thought it was quite good. Martin is very entertaining and his strength in nearly all his work is that he manages to give an overview in a easy to follow way, but sometimes he is a bit flippant and likely to skip over important lines (that's mostly an observation based on other DVDs by him). However in this case I'm not aware of anything wrong or missign in his analyses and I found several of his ideas very interesting (and hadn't seen them before).
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #16 - 10/09/08 at 14:04:06
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Has anyone viewed the ABC's of the Czech Benoni by Andrew Martin.  I am interested in this CD and what exactly is on it.  I am not sure it if is just a dvd or if it has a games database and fritz reader as well.  Please let me know about your impressions and is it worth buying?
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #15 - 10/09/08 at 10:29:59
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Since writing the above I've come to much prefer the plan adopted in Drkulec--Finegold to that of Donner--Keene. Via the 5 ...Nbd7 move order: 6 Nf3 Be7 7 Bd3 Nf8!? 8 h3 Ng6 9 g3! 0-0!? 10 Bd2 Bd7 11 Qe2 a6. Here, GM Stohl gives 12 h4 with a small White plus, and while I won't argue with that I would like to ask why this is so serious for Black after 12 ...Bg4 intending ...Qd7, bolstering the queenside with ...b6 and maybe ...Rfb8 (and possibly the kingside with moves like ...h6 and ...Nh5).
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #14 - 10/09/08 at 08:07:07
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Obviously it can't be forced; but I've noticed that 2 ...c5 3 d5 d6, playing a Schmid Benoni after 4 Nc3 g6 and a Czech Benoni (where White has reduced his options) after 4 c4 e5, has been used by some strong players, e.g. Ponomariov.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #13 - 10/09/08 at 06:40:54
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A further question is how do you get the czech benoni if white goes 2 Nf3 ?
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #12 - 10/08/08 at 23:44:15
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Matemax -- a very to-the-point post I felt! -- with the sole proviso that, in view of TopNotch's equally appreciable point, it surely needs to be said that f2--f4 can indeed be a deadly plan [i]but[/i] only in the right circumstances (i.e where Black can't just strongpoint e5!).


@John Hall -- My immediate thoughts on 5 ...h5 are:

(1) Mightn't this be a bit inflexible since ...Be7 and ...Nbd7 are probably coming, ...h5 only possibly coming? I guess that, logically speaking, this raises the questions: (a) can Black usefully delay ...Be7 given that doing so prevents him carrying out the typical ...Nbd7/...Nf8 manoeuvre?; (b) can he deploy his QN otherwise (e.g. ...a7--a6 meeting a2--a4 with ...a5 then ...Na6)?

(2) If I'm right in thinking that White, in going for either of the two strong plans you mention via the normal move order, can't (for better or worse) advantageously prevent Black from following Donner--Keene, doesn't it follow that 5 ...h5 really only prevents these plans in the same way that they might well be prevented anyway, though it might prevent or at least change Malich's plan (see Malich--Polugayevsky, on which opinion seems to differ)?

(3) More practically, after 5 ...h5 how can Black avoid nagging disadvantage if White aims for 6 h4, 7 g3 and 8 Bh3? This is the plan I would be most worried about, at any rate.

  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #11 - 10/08/08 at 23:10:01
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Matemax wrote on 10/08/08 at 20:54:09:
I tried the Czech in a view games about 2 years ago when Nisipeanu brought it up. I like(d) it against aggressive white play when you get your counterchances - but I had a nasty loss against an opponent who simply did nothing - he even allowed me to play b5 for free and won in the end due to his greater space. The Czech improved my understanding of space in chess - if you feel allright in slightly cramped positions its completely OK! On the other hand you have no compensation for your sligth lack of space and therefore I would consider White to be += right from the start. And its not easy equalizing, cause space is persisting - the centre is blocked. The advantage of the Czech is its focus on understanding rather than on memorizing variations. Thinking about a critical approach for White I would also say that playing for f4 could end in difficulties for Black.



Doesn't playing for f4 concede the e5 square to black and consequently allow him counterplay?

Tops Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #10 - 10/08/08 at 20:54:09
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I tried the Czech in a view games about 2 years ago when Nisipeanu brought it up. I like(d) it against aggressive white play when you get your counterchances - but I had a nasty loss against an opponent who simply did nothing - he even allowed me to play b5 for free and won in the end due to his greater space. The Czech improved my understanding of space in chess - if you feel allright in slightly cramped positions its completely OK! On the other hand you have no compensation for your sligth lack of space and therefore I would consider White to be += right from the start. And its not easy equalizing, cause space is persisting - the centre is blocked. The advantage of the Czech is its focus on understanding rather than on memorizing variations. Thinking about a critical approach for White I would also say that playing for f4 could end in difficulties for Black.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #9 - 10/08/08 at 12:47:10
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Been able to check my copy of the book and it was Ward that wrote it. Really it just focuses on g3 & h4 etc vs 5 .. Be7. 5 .. g6/Nbd7 get a brief mention though.

The advice is roughly to treat g6 as you do a KID & 6 g3 vs Nbd7 with some game fragment where white went for Nge2 and a quick f4. Just as an idea though - no in depth treatment as for the main line.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #8 - 10/07/08 at 14:56:07
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A line in the Czech Benoni that facinates me is:

1. d4  Nf6
2. c4  c5
3. d5  e5
4. Nc3  d6
5. e4  h5!?

h5 is generally a very useful move for black in the Czech Benoni as we see from many games using the modern treatment.

Playing it on move 5 is sharply directed against the two "theoretically best" systems against the CB- the g3 systems and the h3, g4 systems.

If white plays 6. h4- who has gained from the mutual advance of the h-pawns. To be honest, I'm not quite sure. Black has pretty much shut down the f4 plan for white- which I find the most dangerous- but his own ...f5 will be more difficult as well.

Also, I am not quite sure if 6. f4 becomes a decent line for white. Normally, after 5 ...Be7 or 5 ...Nbd7, 6. f4 is considered a pretty bad line for white- but the ...h5 move does nothing for black in that line- so maybe it becomes good!?

Anyways- some food for thought- I've played around with the Czech Benoni a fair bit and I like it.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #7 - 10/07/08 at 11:46:38
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Thanks for this. Of course, if Richard Palliser wanted to comment on any of these lines himself, that'd be wonderful!
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #6 - 10/07/08 at 09:35:48
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Can't be certain without checking but that chapter did read much more like Ward wrote it than Palliser.

The chapter does mention other move orders - and doesn't recommend the the g3/h4 idea vs all of them. There's certainly one where black goes g6,Bg7 and white uses some kind of modern main lineish set up instead.

This may well be 5.. Nbd7 but I'd have to check the book to be at all sure.
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #5 - 10/07/08 at 09:14:32
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Thanks for this, Andrew. The Niggemann review suggests that the chapter on the Czech Benoni (by Richard Palliser) covers 5 ...Be7 6 g3 0-0 7 h4 (the "Super Extended Fianchetto"), but maybe 5 ...Nbd7 is covered as well?

  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #4 - 10/07/08 at 08:54:26
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I haven't got the book but I think Chris Ward the recent dangerous weapons on the benko/benoni covers one of the lines
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #3 - 10/07/08 at 08:30:17
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Thanks for replies. I'm particularly interested by Marin's recommendation since this seems to be Malich--Polugayevsky, which John Emms suggests holds few terrors for Black. (I presume Martin thinks similarly!) Is this a difference of opinion (and if so who should we agree with!?), or does Marin actually diverge from M--P? (I suppose Black might have one or two other plans, such as completing the manoeuvre ...Nf8--Ng6 before, or without, castling, but I imagine Marin deals with these.)

Meanwhile, late at night, I'd failed to appreciate that after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3 Nf8, 8 Bd3 simply transposes to 6 Bd3 Nbd7 7 Nf3 Nf8 8 h3! Black can defer castling here with 8 or 9 ...h5, when Donner--Keene is sometimes given as the key game (but with 15 Nh7 Rh7 16 Kg2 and a small White edge). Petrosian played 8 ...Bd7 here, but presumably this is no great revelation. I guess in a lot of these positions Black is saying to White 'OK, formally speaking you've got a small edge, but how can you exploit it?'. I'd be interested to know what Martin thinks about this.


  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #2 - 10/07/08 at 02:43:53
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[quote author=nmga link=1223334310/0#0 date=1223334310]I'm trying to improve my knowledge of the Czech Benoni, which is proving fascinating. As usual, I don't think the key lines/ideas are always delineated particularly logically in the literature -- you have to do that work yourself! As an example, in Kasparov's 'roll-up' line (White plays Nf3 and h3 but delays Bd3), why, after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3, is 7 ...Nf8!? so rarely mentioned? -- it seems particularly logical now.
[/quote]

7..Nf8 is the most popular move in my database.  According to Igor Stohl, White keeps a small edge after 8.Bd3 Ng6 9.g3 0-0 10.Bd2 Bd7 11.Qe2 a6 12.h4.  One key in this line for White is not to commit the King too early to either side of the board; it's often safer in the center.

Regards,
LeeRoth
  
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Re: Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
Reply #1 - 10/07/08 at 01:48:52
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Hi Michael, I have the Martin Czech Benoni DVD, and I think this is one of his best DVDs (and i'm usually not the biggest fan of his work)

Martin's preference for 5... Nbd7 is to preserve the option of g6/Bg7 against g3 plans.

The most annoying line for me is Nf3/Be2/0-0 and White goes Ne1 and f2-f4. Marin covers this in CBM awhile back, thinks White has solid plus.
  
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Czech Benoni: key lines and move-order subtleties
10/06/08 at 23:05:10
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I'm trying to improve my knowledge of the Czech Benoni, which is proving fascinating. As usual, I don't think the key lines/ideas are always delineated particularly logically in the literature -- you have to do that work yourself! As an example, in Kasparov's 'roll-up' line (White plays Nf3 and h3 but delays Bd3), why, after 6 Nf3 Nbd7 7 h3, is 7 ...Nf8!? so rarely mentioned? -- it seems particularly logical now.

I have a more straightforward question to help me on my way (after which I shall post some key lines for discussion). Andrew Martin's DVD apparently implies Black should play (5) ...Nbd7 before (5) ...Be7. Can anyone tell me why (and/or tell me what key lines he considers in the video)? I can see that after 5 ...Nbd7 6 Nge2!? a6 7 a4, 7 ...g6!? is an option (Mamedyarov--Nisipeanu), and also that a ....g6 plan might be possible after 6 g3 or even 6 Nf3; but in what circumstances/precise positions does Black's choice on move five make a difference and why?


  
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