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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Alapin a good choice? (Read 54990 times)
MNb
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #64 - 05/05/10 at 10:04:09
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1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6
Djy wrote on 03/21/10 at 02:09:38:
Some few years ago 3.d4 cd 4.cd d5 5.e5! was the recomendation but the line is complicate it's hard to give a clear way fot white. Now master and grandmasterlike collins, potkin ,pavasovic and many others prefer 5. Nc3 it's give some initiative after 5.-de4 6.Bc4 .  Statistic 60-40 for white   


Statistics don't say much:

MNb wrote on 04/14/10 at 00:32:49:
Black has 5.Nc3 dxe4 6.Bc4 Nc6 eg 7.Qb3 e6 (looks ugly, but just wait) 8.d5 Nd4 9.Qd1 e5. Black looks OK to me as the passed d-pawn can be stopped.


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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #63 - 05/05/10 at 04:56:24
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The most likely explanation, however, is logistical. I'm not sure what rules were in effect in different locations in the 1880s, but in those days, the rules of chess were still evolving (outside of the very basic rules of the movement of the pieces etc. that define the game of Western Chess as such) and much more subject to change than they are in today's chess world. For instance, the use of clocks wasn't standard until some time during the second half of the 19th century, and even such a basic rule as the threefold repetition draw claim hadn't solidified until at least the late 1800s either. Moreover, as there was no central chess authority in the pre-FIDE days (outside of what major organizers like the London Chess Club ruled for their tournaments) the more "administrative" rules (which touch move certainly qualifies as) could be expected to vary slightly from year to year or even locale to locale.
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #62 - 03/21/10 at 02:09:38
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bragesjo wrote on 09/29/09 at 10:33:19:
parisestmagique wrote on 09/23/09 at 11:01:50:
Can you give the line ? after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 i dont see how to get a plus for White.


If I am not missrembering Dzindzi recommended this line for black but I have never looked at this, especelly since I dont play c3 sicilian with white.

   
Some few years ago 3.d4 cd 4.cd d5 5.e5! was the recomendation but the line is complicate it's hard to give a clear way fot white. Now master and grandmasterlike collins, potkin ,pavasovic and many others prefer 5. Nc3 it's give some initiative after 5.-de4 6.Bc4 .  Statistic 60-40 for white
  

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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #61 - 09/29/09 at 10:33:19
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parisestmagique wrote on 09/23/09 at 11:01:50:
Can you give the line ? after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 i dont see how to get a plus for White.


If I am not missrembering Dzindzi recommended this line for black but I have never looked at this, especelly since I dont play c3 sicilian with white.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #60 - 09/25/09 at 02:38:20
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Michael Ayton wrote on 09/24/09 at 23:51:54:
But, already on move 4 I could try ...e6 or ...d6 in answer to 4 d4 -- where can I find theory on this? I've no idea what happens after 4 ...d6; on 4 ...e6 though I can meet 5 Nf3 with 5 ...cd (is 5 ...d6 OK too?) and 5 Bc4 with 5 ...Nc6 (are 5 ...d6 and 5 ...Nc7 reputable?). Is there (assuming Black wants to play the ...e6 line I mention) anything to gain or lose by delaying ...cxd4?

For what it's worth, Chandler in his first edition (yes, 1981) gives 4...e6 5.c4 Nc7 6.d5 +=.

parisestmagique wrote on 09/23/09 at 11:01:50:
Can you give the line ? after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 i dont see how to get a plus for White.


3.d4 cxd4 4.cxd4 d5 5.e5 is considered slightly better for White if (s)he plays 6.Nc3 and 7.Bd3. The idea is to avoid the pin ...Bg4, which seems to relief Black's position. Of course Black also must be willing to play the 5...g6 variation of the Caro-Kann, Panov Attack.
  

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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #59 - 09/24/09 at 23:51:54
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I've been looking at the transpositional possibilities after 2 ...Nf6 3 e5 Nd5 (and 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 c3 Nf6 4 e5 Nd5). Heck, it's complicated! Coming back to the Sicilian as I prob. am, I'm minded to play the 2 ...Nf6 3 e5 Nd5 4 4 d4 cd 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 cd (6 Bc4 e6 7 cd d6 transposes) d6 7 Bc4 e6 8 0-0 Be7 9 Qe2 0-0 line, since it looks quite solid, can be played equally after 2 c3 and 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 c3, and I don't think White can profitably avoid it. But what are the other possible transpositions? On 5 cd I assume I can play 5 ...e6 aiming for 6 Nf3 Nc6 (6 Bc4 d6; 6 Nc3 and now which is safer, 6 ...d6 or 6 ...Nc3?).

But, already on move 4 I could try ...e6 or ...d6 in answer to 4 d4 -- where can I find theory on this? I've no idea what happens after 4 ...d6; on 4 ...e6 though I can meet 5 Nf3 with 5 ...cd (is 5 ...d6 OK too?) and 5 Bc4 with 5 ...Nc6 (are 5 ...d6 and 5 ...Nc7 reputable?). Is there (assuming Black wants to play the ...e6 line I mention) anything to gain or lose by delaying ...cxd4?


  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #58 - 09/23/09 at 13:05:07
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Goodness gracious me. No. Why on earth would it be his? Mine.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #57 - 09/23/09 at 12:07:04
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Is it Dzindzi's recommandation for White ?
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #56 - 09/23/09 at 11:10:55
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parisestmagique wrote on 09/23/09 at 11:01:50:
Can you give the line ? after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 i dont see how to get a plus for White.


3 f4.

Next.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #55 - 09/23/09 at 11:01:50
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Can you give the line ? after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6 i dont see how to get a plus for White.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #54 - 09/23/09 at 09:51:48
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parisestmagique wrote on 09/23/09 at 09:32:54:
What do you think of this variation for Black : 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6!? for exemple 3.d4 cxd 4.cxd d5 5.e5 and now Nh6,Bg7 or maybe h5!? to play à la Gurgenidze with Nh6 and Bg4 or Bf5.


It's easy to learn and entirely playable, but White keeps a slight advantage in the main lines. I find Dzindzi's evaluations of equality in Chess Openings for Black Explained very optimistic.
  

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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #53 - 09/23/09 at 09:32:54
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What do you think of this variation for Black : 1.e4 c5 2.c3 g6!? for exemple 3.d4 cxd 4.cxd d5 5.e5 and now Nh6,Bg7 or maybe h5!? to play à la Gurgenidze with Nh6 and Bg4 or Bf5.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #52 - 07/20/09 at 14:07:37
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Tiviakov had a phase of playing nothing but 2.c3 against the Sicilian with very good results, but for whatever reason now he is varying a lot against the Sicilian - sometimes open Sicilian, sometimes 2.Nc3, sometimes 3.Bb5+ and sometimes 2.c3
For me 2.c3 is a safe move, but not the real test of the Sicilian.
  
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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #51 - 07/18/09 at 03:18:24
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GM Tiviakov seems to disagree - and proves his point, as his score after 2.c3 is 68%.
  

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Re: Is Alapin a good choice?
Reply #50 - 07/17/09 at 15:05:47
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Gorath wrote on 07/17/09 at 02:08:51:
As Collins said, white also doesn't get an advantage in the open Sicilian.


I know the Sicilian is popular but this is a ridiculous statement to make - all of Blacks major headaches are in the open Sicilian, and even a quiet open Sicilian line with g3 or Be2 should be more threatening than the c3 Sicilian.
  
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