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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos (Read 90292 times)
Michael Ayton
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #155 - 04/29/10 at 13:26:03
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[quote]You will find players that mindlessly trot out 7...Nc6 to run into 8. d5 Ne7 9. Nd2 and white's doing well (he's achieved the more useful Be3 over 0-0 as in the 7. 0-0 Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Nd2 variation). I've had two unprepared black players play this way in tournament play, one an 1800, one a 1900, so it's not unheard of.
[/quote]

Magic for White of course! But I've noticed strong players playing in different ways as White here -- I'd be interested to know what's considered nastiest for Black (or maybe some lines have equal status?).

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #154 - 02/19/10 at 22:48:24
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Templare2 wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:37:00:
BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 17:19:41:
@Templare 2:

Being a 1. Nf3 player I've had a lot of KID come my way in tournament play, so I've spent more time there than any other single black opening when it comes to preparation as white.

My recommendation would be for the Gligoric to a class player.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. d4 0-0 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3.



7...Ng4 is definitely the critical try


The Gligoric System is very interesting. What about 7.., h6 ( Nunn)? It seems the strongest move in this position.

Thanks


Theoretical works I've seen have made reference to 7...h6 being +=, even Gallagher in "Play the KID" admits as much.

7...h6 is a tricky idea, but far and away not the strongest continuation at black's disposal.

Black's lone road to equality is pretty much the 7...Ng4 8. Bg5 f6 9. Bh4 g5 10. Bg3 Nh6 continuation, and as I said before - even there black has to exercise more caution and be a lot more precise than white. Even from there white has three distinct options that are quite different in nature from eachother that black has to know specifics to (11. d5, 11. dxe5, 11. c5).
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #153 - 02/19/10 at 22:47:55
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I don't know that 7...h6 was ever considered the strongest move, though it certainly made a splash back around the time Dr. Nunn was at his peak.  It seems to be considered "+=" these days.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #152 - 02/19/10 at 22:37:00
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BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 17:19:41:
@Templare 2:

Being a 1. Nf3 player I've had a lot of KID come my way in tournament play, so I've spent more time there than any other single black opening when it comes to preparation as white.

My recommendation would be for the Gligoric to a class player.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. d4 0-0 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3.



7...Ng4 is definitely the critical try


The Gligoric System is very interesting. What about 7.., h6 ( Nunn)? It seems the strongest move in this position.

Thanks
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #151 - 02/18/10 at 19:41:09
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Thanks. I've worked out why 8 d5 after 7 ...Nbd7 is not best. But is 8 de anodyne necessarily? (I was just maybe wanting something to play with a bit less study, that was all ...  Cheesy)
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #150 - 02/18/10 at 19:15:22
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[quote author=37343E38590 link=1226348173/149#149 date=1266518236]Very interesting, BPaulsen -- your inspiring write-up has encouraged me to take a look at this.

What is your take on 7 ...Na6, when Golubev recommends transposition to E94 with 8 0-0? And how should White meet 7 ...Nbd7? -- 8 d5, or 8 de de 9 Nd2 perhaps? (I don't really want to run into trendy Dembo stuff, esp. as I might give this a punt as Black!)[/quote]

White can transpose back into the main lines with 8. 0-0 in case of 7...Na6/7...Nbd7. The Khalifman books cover them both well. Anyone that plays the white side of the Classical KID, even if they don't play the Bayonet, should have OFWAK 1a/1b - highly recommended.

The trendy Dembo stuff is not something white players should be fearing if they take the time to learn it.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #149 - 02/18/10 at 18:37:16
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Very interesting, BPaulsen -- your inspiring write-up has encouraged me to take a look at this.

What is your take on 7 ...Na6, when Golubev recommends transposition to E94 with 8 0-0? And how should White meet 7 ...Nbd7? -- 8 d5, or 8 de de 9 Nd2 perhaps? (I don't really want to run into trendy Dembo stuff, esp. as I might give this a punt as Black!)
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #148 - 02/18/10 at 17:43:21
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Never mind 1800s and 1900s, 7...Nc6 against the Gligoric has been played by a number of titled players (it's also been given as unclear, though I find that hard to believe).
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #147 - 02/18/10 at 17:19:41
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@Templare 2:

Being a 1. Nf3 player I've had a lot of KID come my way in tournament play, so I've spent more time there than any other single black opening when it comes to preparation as white.

My recommendation would be for the Gligoric to a class player.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. d4 0-0 6. Be2 e5 7. Be3.

You will find players that mindlessly trot out 7...Nc6 to run into 8. d5 Ne7 9. Nd2 and white's doing well (he's achieved the more useful Be3 over 0-0 as in the 7. 0-0 Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Nd2 variation). I've had two unprepared black players play this way in tournament play, one an 1800, one a 1900, so it's not unheard of.

7...Ng4 is definitely the critical try, when 8. Bg5 f6 9. Bh4 g5 10. Bg3 Nh6 is the best line for black. 11. dxe5 is a relatively quiet try [11...dxe5 12. Qd5+ Kh8 (if 12...Nf7 then h4 ideas for white are powerful) 13. Qxd8 Rxd8 14. h4 g4 15. Nd2] that is interesting. 11. c5 has some surprise value, but is equal. 11. d5 is the main line, very easy to handle as white, and most importantly black doesn't get his typical kingside attack at all.

I had a game against a 2350 that saw black blunder with 9...Nh6 when 10. dxe5 is +-, which is one of the easier games I've ever won in tournament play. This illustrates that black can trip over himself quite easily, which makes it even more effective for the class player in tournament play.

The main line is 11. d5, when black can equalize but has to have considerable precision up to around move 18-20. Even in the equal variations black is the only one that has to exercise caution - white's entirely safe with zero positional defects.

Another upside to 7. Be3 is the line with exd4 is even easier for white to handle compared to 7. 0-0.

Krasenkow's system is just too nuanced for a lot of players to handle, especially in the 6...e5 7. d5 a5 line.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #146 - 02/18/10 at 17:15:07
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BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 14:58:21:
I played that line for a few years, my first win ever against an IM (he's now GM Barcenilla) came as white in it.

I definitely tried to keep it alive, maybe something new is produced, but I couldn't beat anything that's been recommended as the theoretical antidote for awhile now.


Fair enough.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #145 - 02/18/10 at 17:03:04
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My rating is around 1900 points. In my next tournament ( in May) i'll play the B tournament (players rated from 1600 to 2000 points).

Tnx  Smiley
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #144 - 02/18/10 at 16:51:12
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Templare2,

What is your approximate rating and what is the range of rated opponents to you play against?
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #143 - 02/18/10 at 16:48:24
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Smiley Thank you all! Your comments are really interesting.


BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:10:52:
9. Ne1/10. Be3/13. a4 is met by a5, where black's been okay for some time now.

It's viable, just don't expect anything against a prepared black opponent.


Yes, I think You are right. But it is a difficult task to obtain a good position against a well prepared opponent in any openings.

I must learn the KID starting from zero, so do You suggest the above mentioned line or you can suggest others line ( like Krasenkow h3)?

Markovich wrote on 02/18/10 at 14:26:24:
BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:10:52:
.


I have no doubt that BPaulen here, as always, knowledgeably reports the state of current theory.  It seems to me though that when preparing opening systems we also develop our own theory.  It's not as if chess has been solved, after all.  Nor does everyone have exactly the same understanding of how it should be played, particularly in difficult positions like those that arise in the KID Classical.  Furthermore, given that current theory is constantly being revised, I'm not sure how much it should guide our own opening researches. 

So my suggestion is, now that you know that current theory considers Black's resources adequate in this line, nevertheless take serious look at it yourself and see if you can find any useful ideas for White.  "Useful" according to your own lights, that is.

If you do that, I don't think I would be quite as sure as BPaulsen is that you'll have no chances against prepared opposition.


Your hint is very wise but i’m a week player and i don’t think to be able to find for myself new ideas in a well analysed opening like the KID. I can try, of course.

Antillian wrote on 02/18/10 at 14:54:19:
Templare2,

The Krasenkow system is an excellent practical weapon and is consistent with a 1. Nf3 move order. It may not give the so called += that everyone seems to obsess about. But in the hands of a specialist, it will probably yield better practical results than the Bayonet and the other more theoretically significant lines.


I considered this system too and I agree with you that is a excellent pratical weapon. But in my opinion the Korchnoi variation is more forcing and the queen’s side attack more easy to understand..
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #142 - 02/18/10 at 16:29:12
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Klick wrote on 02/18/10 at 16:21:35:
I`m considering playing the Korchnoi Mar del Plata variation. What is considered the black antidote BPaulsen?


13...a5. Everything else is comfortably +=, bordering in many cases on +/-.

White has a few tries, but nothing that sees his queenside attack get there before black's kingside attack secures equal chances.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #141 - 02/18/10 at 16:21:35
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I`m considering playing the Korchnoi Mar del Plata variation. What is considered the black antidote BPaulsen?
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #140 - 02/18/10 at 15:14:11
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I think Black is okay, but White can always find some practical resources to cause Black problems. Of course, the other main choice of 13. Rc1 is also worth a punt as well. You have to sack the pawn in my opinion though.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #139 - 02/18/10 at 14:58:21
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Markovich wrote on 02/18/10 at 14:26:24:
BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:10:52:
9. Ne1/10. Be3/13. a4 is met by a5, where black's been okay for some time now.

It's viable, just don't expect anything against a prepared black opponent.


I have no doubt that BPaulen here, as always, knowledgeably reports the state of current theory.  It seems to me though that when preparing opening systems we also develop our own theory.  It's not as if chess has been solved, after all.  Nor does everyone have exactly the same understanding of how it should be played, particularly in difficult positions like those that arise in the KID Classical.  Furthermore, given that current theory is constantly being revised, I'm not sure how much it should guide our own opening researches. 

So my suggestion is, now that you know that current theory considers Black's resources adequate in this line, nevertheless take serious look at it yourself and see if you can find any useful ideas for White.  "Useful" according to your own lights, that is.

If you do that, I don't think I would be quite as sure as BPaulsen is that you'll have no chances against prepared opposition.


I played that line for a few years, my first win ever against an IM (he's now GM Barcenilla) came as white in it.

I definitely tried to keep it alive, maybe something new is produced, but I couldn't beat anything that's been recommended as the theoretical antidote for awhile now.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #138 - 02/18/10 at 14:54:19
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Templare2,

The Krasenkow system is an excellent practical weapon and is consistent with a 1. Nf3 move order. It may not give the so called += that everyone seems to obsess about. But in the hands of a specialist, it will probably yield better practical results than the Bayonet and the other more theoretically significant lines.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #137 - 02/18/10 at 14:26:24
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BPaulsen wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:10:52:
9. Ne1/10. Be3/13. a4 is met by a5, where black's been okay for some time now.

It's viable, just don't expect anything against a prepared black opponent.


I have no doubt that BPaulen here, as always, knowledgeably reports the state of current theory.  It seems to me though that when preparing opening systems we also develop our own theory.  It's not as if chess has been solved, after all.  Nor does everyone have exactly the same understanding of how it should be played, particularly in difficult positions like those that arise in the KID Classical.  Furthermore, given that current theory is constantly being revised, I'm not sure how much it should guide our own opening researches. 

So my suggestion is, now that you know that current theory considers Black's resources adequate in this line, nevertheless take serious look at it yourself and see if you can find any useful ideas for White.  "Useful" according to your own lights, that is.

If you do that, I don't think I would be quite as sure as BPaulsen is that you'll have no chances against prepared opposition.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #136 - 02/18/10 at 13:10:52
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9. Ne1/10. Be3/13. a4 is met by a5, where black's been okay for some time now.

It's viable, just don't expect anything against a prepared black opponent.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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QUESTIONS FOR KID EXPERTS ( for White side)
Reply #135 - 02/18/10 at 09:59:50
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I haven't a repertoire against the KID. I played different systems like the Saemisch, the Averbach or off-beat lines i.e. Bd3 and Nge2.

I would like to study this opening seriusly. My first move usually is 1. Nf3 so I'd like to study the classical variation. The Markus book suggest the Korcnoj Variation so i ask you:

1) Is this line still viable for a player around 2000 ELO?
2) I'm  a suscriber of chess pub. In addition to Golubev files, there are others games usefull to upgrade the book?

Thanx
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #134 - 11/24/09 at 21:45:10
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I guess that "Kill KID" (http://www.amazon.com/Kill-K-I-D-v-Semko-Semkov/dp/9548782707)may be interpreted the same way...
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #133 - 11/24/09 at 21:28:07
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I have been reading this book for about 3 weeks. I have taken it to work and what not. I never noticed that the title Says, "Beat the KID". To anyone who is not a chess player this must seem like a strange title. I'll have to ask some of my coworkers if they have noticed.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #132 - 09/11/09 at 05:03:54
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Hello:

No, just prose and variations. Goes to ca. move 20 in many lines but not complete games.

Gerry
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #131 - 09/09/09 at 13:39:29
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Is this book based on complete model games ?
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #130 - 06/18/09 at 08:47:15
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by the way beat the kid seems the perfect title for a book about violoence on children! Cheesy
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #129 - 03/04/09 at 22:36:47
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This book is unusual. Some sublines are ignored, or next to nothing is said about them. But other lines (most topical ones, as a rule) are covered brilliantly. For many readers a book where little bit is said about everything would be less useful.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #128 - 03/04/09 at 20:27:01
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Yes, I'm a little unclear from the review as to whether he covers those "safe" lines well and lays out his case.

Thanks very much for responding.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #127 - 03/04/09 at 17:38:09
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Hi.

I think it is a reference to chapter 14 which deals with "....9.Ne1 Nd7/Ne8 10. f3 f5 11.g4.

Quote from Markov

"
...
He (A: Black) has to suppress his attacking instincts and reorient himself, as the game is going to have a positional character.
...
"

Regards / Anders

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #126 - 03/04/09 at 13:39:57
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I just read the review before coming here. What interests me is Hansen's quote:

Quote:
...[White players] loathe having their king under strong attack. However, many of them do not know that even in the 9.Ne1 line there are safe sub-systems with a very positional character.


Can anyone who owns the book attest to the value of such coverage in the book ? Are there really safe "sub-systems" here?
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #125 - 03/04/09 at 12:33:29
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I get the impression that Markos has not really deeply studied the Makagonov system to the extent that he may have studied other systems. That is probably why the coverage of the Makagonov is so skimpy. The auhor himself says that he thinks it is a system that can be played largely based on understanding and he uses it more against lower rated players to get them out of their preparation. I think these two factors are reflected in his coverage of the system.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #124 - 03/04/09 at 06:37:41
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FM Carsten Hansen book review by CHESSCAFE.COM:
http://www.chesscafe.com/hansen/hansen.htm

Beat the KID by Jan Markos, Quality Chess 2008, Figurine Algebraic Notation, Paperback, 197pp., $29.95

One of Slovakia’s top players, GM Jan Markos is twenty-three years old and has a current rating of 2577. In Beat the KID he examines three opening variations that, in his opinion, offer White excellent chances of success against the King’s Indian Defense, aka the “KID.” He opens the book as follows:

“I am not an experienced chess author. However, I am a very passionate reader of chess books. When I was thirteen, I read Averbakh’s entire course on endings, and I read it with pleasure (frankly, my parents were not especially happy about that.) And I am a reasonably strong practical player.

“The book was written to serve both practical and ‘unpractical’ chessplayers. It was written to meet the expectations of those who seek useful advice, but it is also written for those who are looking for beauty an entertainment in chess. Therefore do not be surprised to find a diagram attached to some completely unimportant sub-line: I have never been able to resist the temptation to highlight a unique chess moment.

“This is a book on a specific opening. From such a book two conflicting qualities are demanded. On the one hand, it should be crammed with exhaustive and reliable information, which is easy to find if needed. On the other hand, it should be structured and intelligible enough to be read from cover to cover like a novel. I was trying to find a compromise between these two demands, although I have to admit that I am a fan of elegant, easy-to-read chess books.”

The material is divided as follows:

Key to symbols used & Bibliography (1 page)
Foreword – what can be found in this book (2 pages)
Introduction to the King’s Indian Defence (6 pages)
Part 1 – The Krasenkow Variation (2 pages)
Introduction – The Art of Prophylaxis (4 pages)
Chapters 1-5 (38 pages)
Conclusion to part 1 (2 pages)
Part 2 – The Bayonet Variation (2 pages)
Introduction – An Open Fight (2 pages)
Chapters 6-13 (62 pages)
Conclusion to part 2 (2 pages)
Part 3 – The Classical Variation (2 pages)
Introduction – Back to the Roots (4 pages)
Chapters 14-18 (44 pages)
Conclusion to part 3 (2 pages)
Epilogue – Sixth and Seventh Move Alternatives (2 pages)
Chapter 19 – Tying Up Loose Ends (15 pages)
Index of Annotates Games (1 page)
Index of Variations (6 pages)
The three lines covered in this volume are the Krasenkow Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 h3

The Bayonet Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 b4

The Classical Variation: 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 Ne1

According to Markos, the first variation was only used occasionally by top players until Krasenkow took it up in the early 1990s and made it a powerful weapon. Krasenkow employed the line in more than seventy games and at one point he was rated over 2700, so his opening ideas should definitely be given due consideration. As you can see from the above list of contents, the author has devoted five theoretical chapters to this line.

The first of these theoretical chapters is called The Modern Benoni Structure. However, this is a slight misnomer, because the line chosen by Markos: 6…c5 7 d5 e6 8 Bd3 exd5 9 exd5 isn’t a Modern Benoni structure, but simply a Benoni structure. I thoroughly investigated this line as a young player, and I have to say that I found the coverage disappointingly sparse. Aside from the option of 7…b5, in the line after 9 exd5, he only covers 9…Re8+ 10 Be3 Bh6 and 10…Bf5. The former of the two moves is dealt with mostly through explanations to a well-chosen game, but with almost no other game examples; whereas the latter move is only covered through one game from 1990. Yet several other tenth move alternatives for Black aren’t mentioned at all, such as 10…b5, 10…Na6, 10…Nbd7 and particularly 10…Nh5. The latter in particular carries a bit of a punch if White isn’t careful, as evidenced by the following game:

Vladimirov,Evgeny (2525) - Tal,Mihail (2630)
URS Cup rapid Tallinn 1988 [E90]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 g6 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.e4 0–0 6.Nf3 d6 7.h3 a6 8.a4 e6 9.Bd3 exd5 10.exd5 Re8+ 11.Be3 Nh5 12.0–0 Nd7 13.Qd2 Ne5 14.Nxe5 Rxe5 15.Bh6 Bxh6 16.Qxh6 Bxh3 17.gxh3 Qh4 18.Kh2 Rg5 19.Ne2 Re8 20.Rae1 Rxe2 21.Bxe2 Qf4+ 22.Kh1 Qe4+ 23.f3 Qh4 24.Qxg5 Qxg5 25.Rg1 Qd2 26.Kg2 Nf4+ 27.Kf1 Nxh3 28.Rg4 h5 29.Re4 Qg5 30.Bd1 Qg1+ 31.Ke2 Qf2+ 32.Kd3 Qxb2 0–1

Granted, 7…a6 8 a4 has been inserted, but this continuation is dismissed by Markos without giving any further moves and the above line can be played without 7…a6, but …Nh5 is not covered in either version. It often seems like the author is keeping information from us, such as the comment on page 52, where Black plays a move that Markos admits to being much better than the main line. He writes, “To be honest, I haven’t found any advantage for White after 11…Nb6, but White might try 12 h4 or 12 Be3.” If he wants us to “Beat the KID,” he needs to do better than this!

The Bayonet Variation has been very popular since the mid-1990s. Apparently when, after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Be2 e5 7 0-0 Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 b4 Nh5, Sokolov introduced the rather obvious 10 Re1, allowing White to meet the idea …Nf4 with Bf1, it sparked new interest in this line. In contrast to the previous section, the chapters on this variation are infinitely more detailed and better written. However, Markos still has a tendency to leave a few loose ends, such as when he points out an improvement for Black, but offers nothing for White to counter it.

The chapters on the Classical Variation are the best of the book. There are plenty of insights in the theory and in the prose, where Markos explains the ideas behind the various moves as well as the strategic motifs. In the introduction to the Classical Variation, or the “Kortchnoi” as Markos calls it, he postulates as to why this line isn’t very popular. He first suggests that people “loathe having their king under strong attack. However, many of them do not know that even in the 9.Ne1 line there are safe sub-systems with a very positional character.” The second part of his argument pertains to the use of computers in preparation, in that computers cannot accurately evaluate the positions because of the closed pawn structure. Markos presents the following example:

Kortchnoi-Kasparov, Amsterdam 1991
Position after Black’s 22…Qf8

Markos: “You would barely find a computer program which evaluates this position as better for Black. I have conducted a small test using Rybka 3.0. After working the entire night (!) its evaluation was += [small advantage for White]. However, Kasparov claims that White is already much worse, and he is probably right. Black’s attack on the kingside is very strong and is especially difficult to face in a practical game. Kortchnoi lost in just a few moves without committing any serious mistake. Apparently, the computer is wrong. Why? Because it was comparing the incomparable: White’s material advantage on the queenside and Black’s attacking prospects on the other side of the board. It does not understand that the e4-pawn can’t help the white king to survive.” This, of course, leaves you wondering why so few top players consistently employ the King’s Indian as black.

Overall, this is a decent book, but it is definitely has a few flaws. The point of buying an opening book is to have someone do the hard work for you, by sifting through the relevant material and then explaining the basic ideas and motifs with a fair share of author input. If the author claims to assist you in beating the relevant opening, he must be prepared to deliver a lot more ideas in critical positions, so that you can get the upper hand against opposition that is also familiar with theory. However, in many cases Markos leaves the reader hanging. Even if an author cannot prove an advantage, which will often be the case, then he should at least analyze the position in order to fully prepare the reader. Of course, the reader should always analyze things for themselves to become familiar with the position in question and enhance their overall understanding of the game.

My assessment of this book:  3 out of 5
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #123 - 01/31/09 at 14:43:51
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The book is O.K and food for thought as are all opening books.
If the chapter is "crap" and you have to find improvements/something else then in a strange way it has served an educational purpose.

At least the book is highlighting the ...Qf7 continuation which was off most peoples radar some years ago. Cool

Nelson
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #122 - 01/31/09 at 13:09:08
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Antillian wrote on 01/31/09 at 12:47:57:
I got my copy of the book and I have spent some time on the section on the Makagonov System. I am reasonably pleased. It certainly is enhancing my understanding of this system.  For the Makagonov System, I think this book is a good complement to Grivas. I would recommend reading Markos first and then going on to Grivas.


In contrast i found this chapter as a crap. Why? You can see here: 
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1231803683

Bayonet section is nnot very impressive also but Korchnoi one is quite good.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #121 - 01/31/09 at 12:47:57
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I got my copy of the book and I have spent some time on the section on the Makagonov System. I am reasonably pleased. It certainly is enhancing my understanding of this system.  For the Makagonov System, I think this book is a good complement to Grivas. I would recommend reading Markos first and then going on to Grivas.

I can understand some of the criticism leveled at the book. But having spent some time on it, the way I see it is that this is not meant to be a cutting edge theoretical high level book.

If you have been playing any of these lines as White for some time, and you are thoroughly grounded in the lines, then this book will probably not add a lot of value to you.

However if you are taking up one of these systems for the first time, or even if you have been playing them and have some gaps in your understanding, I think this book will be very useful. And I think the latter applies to many people who are obsessive about theory.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #120 - 01/19/09 at 20:56:10
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This topic is about book by J.Markos. Please post your pseudo-analysis somewhere else.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #119 - 01/19/09 at 19:43:53
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Fritz couldn't find equality in one of the main lines: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 dxc4 6.Nxc4 O-O 7.e3 Bf5 8.Nf3 Nc6 9.a3 a6 10.Be2 Qc8 11.O-O Rd8 12.Qc1 h6 13.h3 Ne4 14.Nh2 b5 15.Nd2 Nxd2 16.Qxd2 e5 17.Bf3 e4 18.Be2 +/=sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 16:27:38:
White can always win the battle for the tempo here i.e. he can compel Black to play the capture dxc4 before Black can make him play cxd5 e.g. according to you 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 a5 6.bxa5! Rxa5 7.Bc3! (gaining a tempo as I define time with the hit on the Rook). If 7...Ra3? 8.Qc1 Ra8 (Where else?). In the Queen's Gambit Declined, there is the battle over forcing White to move his King Bishop before Black captures on c4. Here you will note that Black always loses the battle for the tempo because White can make unlimited developing moves without have to play cxd5 e.g. 7...Ra3 8.Qc1 Ra8 9.e3/Nf3/Be2/O-O +/=etc. Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 15:35:59:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over".

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.


  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #118 - 01/19/09 at 16:27:38
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White can always win the battle for the tempo here i.e. he can compel Black to play the capture dxc4 before Black can make him play cxd5 e.g. according to you 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2 a5 6.bxa5! Rxa5 7.Bc3! (gaining a tempo as I define time with the hit on the Rook). If 7...Ra3? 8.Qc1 Ra8 (Where else?). In the Queen's Gambit Declined, there is the battle over forcing White to move his King Bishop before Black captures on c4. Here you will note that Black always loses the battle for the tempo because White can make unlimited developing moves without have to play cxd5 e.g. 7...Ra3 8.Qc1 Ra8 9.e3/Nf3/Be2/O-O +/=etc. Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 15:35:59:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over".

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #117 - 01/19/09 at 15:35:59
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 d5! A good move, switching to an active Grünfeld setup now that white has played so many moves on the flank. 5.Nd2?! Obviously protecting the pawn, but the knight doesn't look so good on d2 if Black refuses to capture. (5.e3 followed by a quick Nf3 and Be2 may be playable) 5...a5! why not get this in before White can restrain it. 6.a3?! (After 6.b5 c6 Black certainly has no problems and White's bishop looks bad on b2.) 6...dxc4 Black exchanges now that he can attack a weak pawn on b4. 7.Nxc4 axb4 8.axb4 Rxa1 9.Bxa1 Qd5!? 10.e3 0-0 11.Nf3 Nc6. =+ Black has an annoying initiative.

sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 13:29:17:
The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess.

Classical chess masters from Morphy to the post-war Soviets, who are still mainstays of the middlegame books, were actually right on a lot of things.

Some basic philosopy of science: A new theory needs to supercede the old one, not merely replace it. That is, your theory must take into account and explain everything that was right about the old theory. If it doesn't, your new ideas will fail time and again to already well-known objections. This is precisely what is happening in this thread.

If your theory neglects development, initiative and weak pawns you will be punished by "classical" counter-attacks before you ever find the time to "switch over".

You will find many exceptions where GMs like Karpov or Seirawan got away with taking lots of space at the cost of development. But they can do this (only in the right positions) because they are deep, prophylactic players who consider all their opponents' attempts at counter-attack well in advance and have concrete answers ready. Sometimes even the great Karpov failed miserably, as in the Sämisch KID game TopNotch quoted.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #116 - 01/19/09 at 13:29:17
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Gentlemen, you are right, White must improve on move order but keep the idea i.e. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.b4! (To restrain c5) Bg7 4.Bb2 d5 5.Nd2! dxc4 6.Nxc4 O-O 7.e3! Bf5 8.Nf3 (The whole point of Universal Chess is to get an advantage and then switch over immediately to Classical chess. White restrains a5, b5, and e5. 8...Nc6 9.a3 +/=Stigma wrote on 01/19/09 at 00:43:59:
Moody-Fritz 8 120/1 King's Indian Sloughter Variation
[Annotator: Stigma]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4?! White shows his plan too early; he should secure his centre and find a good piece arrangment first. b4 might be a good space grab later on, but it's useful to have the options of 0-0-0 or protecting c4 with b2-b3 in some variations. (6.f3 and 6.Ng3 both lead to interesting, unclear play) 6...c5! 7.Rb1 cxb4!? Black wants to play against the weakened pawns on d4 and c4. White now has to be very careful. [7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 is also good, with a Maroczy Bind position where White is lagging in development and struggles to get his pieces out safely] 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6?! 10.f3 Nd7! 11.g3? (11.Be3 Nb6 12.Qd3 is very clumsy but should be tried, although black is still better.) 11...Nb6 12.h3? Nxc4 Black has an extra pawn, a weak square on c4, a big lead in development, the more compact pawn structure and the safer king. This adds up to a clear, probably winning advantage for black. 13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 b4 16.Nd5 Ba6 17.Rf2 Qa5 White has failed to find any compensation for the pawn and with the black pieces getting active on the queenside, the game is over. -+

White is too preoccupied with his space advantage and open file in this game. According to classical chess strategy you should put much more emphasis on development, weak squares, king safety, and counterattack against a big center. Since you mentioned Silman earlier I sincerely recommend his book "How to Reassess your Chess" and particularly the chapters on development, weak squares and "the dark side of space". Pachman's or Euwe/Kramer's middlegame books would do fine too.

Even if you want to create a new theory built around space you can't just pretend basic needs of a position like development, king safety, material, solid pawn structure and tactical shots don't exist; they must be part of your theories and certainly your play. And what's the point of playing so quickly against Fritz 8 - a GM strength opponent after all?!

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #115 - 01/19/09 at 04:16:18
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6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 (Fritz 8) 9.Nc2 Be6 10.Ne3 Rc8 11.Ned5 Ne5 12.Qb3 unclear sloughter wrote on 01/19/09 at 03:26:18:
Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on 01/17/09 at 03:02:15:
"No one plays the Queen Bishop to b6". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?
By the way I am confused---which one of us is undermining the center, b4 or c5? As far as your idea of "weakening the long diagonal", what is the Bishop doing on g7 when there is no pawn on b2 or a Rook on a1? Of what use is your King Bishop for attacking purposes? And you never suggest what Black is going to do with his Kingside---attack?? Attack what? If I play with the idea of taking away all your counterplay on the Kingside, what are your long term plans? You ignore the fact that you have lost the critical undermining tool in this variation, c6. Perhaps you should look at a board. I can improve on b5 with just the simple 7.Rb1 Nc6 8.bxc5 dxc5 9.d5 Ne5 10.Ng3 b6 (What else?) 11.f4 +-, or, 9.d5 Na5 10.Qd3 b6 11.f3 Ba6 12.Nb5 Qd7 13.a4 Threat---g3/h3/Rh2/Rf2/Bg2/Kf1/f4/e5+- This is the kind of pattern I would recognize in a blitz game.


mangler wrote on 01/16/09 at 12:00:13:
I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head.

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that.

Good luck with your studies.



  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #114 - 01/19/09 at 03:52:43
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Quote:
Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on Jan 17th, 2009, 3:02am:


Until you find a way for White to equalize against 7...cxb4 this is all rather irrelevant isn't it?  Secondly Black has better moves at almost every turn.  Even the rather obvious 10...Qxd4 probably leaves Black on the better side of approximate equality. 

I really don't understand your persistence with this sloughter.  I'm sure Fritz 8 isn't recommending all of these moves as best.  What's the point of showing how things might go well against inferior moves?  I really don't want to be mean here but it really looks like you just like the attention even if that attention is negative.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #113 - 01/19/09 at 03:26:18
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Here's a forcing line in the one of the main lines in the Sloughter Variation that leads to advantage White (recommended by that weakie Frita 8) 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Qb6 9.f3! Nxe4? 10.Nd5 Bxd4 11.Nxb6 Bf2ch 12.Ke2 Nc3ch 13.Kd2 Nxd1 14.Nxa8+/- If Black avoids 9...Nxe4, White has Be3 e.g. 9.f3 a5 10.Be3 unclearsloughter wrote on 01/17/09 at 03:02:15:
"No one plays the Queen Bishop to b6". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?
By the way I am confused---which one of us is undermining the center, b4 or c5? As far as your idea of "weakening the long diagonal", what is the Bishop doing on g7 when there is no pawn on b2 or a Rook on a1? Of what use is your King Bishop for attacking purposes? And you never suggest what Black is going to do with his Kingside---attack?? Attack what? If I play with the idea of taking away all your counterplay on the Kingside, what are your long term plans? You ignore the fact that you have lost the critical undermining tool in this variation, c6. Perhaps you should look at a board. I can improve on b5 with just the simple 7.Rb1 Nc6 8.bxc5 dxc5 9.d5 Ne5 10.Ng3 b6 (What else?) 11.f4 +-, or, 9.d5 Na5 10.Qd3 b6 11.f3 Ba6 12.Nb5 Qd7 13.a4 Threat---g3/h3/Rh2/Rf2/Bg2/Kf1/f4/e5+- This is the kind of pattern I would recognize in a blitz game.


mangler wrote on 01/16/09 at 12:00:13:
I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head.

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that.

Good luck with your studies.


  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #112 - 01/19/09 at 00:43:59
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Moody-Fritz 8 120/1 King's Indian Sloughter Variation
[Annotator: Stigma]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4?! White shows his plan too early; he should secure his centre and find a good piece arrangment first. b4 might be a good space grab later on, but it's useful to have the options of 0-0-0 or protecting c4 with b2-b3 in some variations. (6.f3 and 6.Ng3 both lead to interesting, unclear play) 6...c5! 7.Rb1 cxb4!? Black wants to play against the weakened pawns on d4 and c4. White now has to be very careful. [7...cxd4 8.Nxd4 Nc6 is also good, with a Maroczy Bind position where White is lagging in development and struggles to get his pieces out safely] 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6?! 10.f3 Nd7! 11.g3? (11.Be3 Nb6 12.Qd3 is very clumsy but should be tried, although black is still better.) 11...Nb6 12.h3? Nxc4 Black has an extra pawn, a weak square on c4, a big lead in development, the more compact pawn structure and the safer king. This adds up to a clear, probably winning advantage for black. 13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 b4 16.Nd5 Ba6 17.Rf2 Qa5 White has failed to find any compensation for the pawn and with the black pieces getting active on the queenside, the game is over. -+

White is too preoccupied with his space advantage and open file in this game. According to classical chess strategy you should put much more emphasis on development, weak squares, king safety, and counterattack against a big center. Since you mentioned Silman earlier I sincerely recommend his book "How to Reassess your Chess" and particularly the chapters on development, weak squares and "the dark side of space". Pachman's or Euwe/Kramer's middlegame books would do fine too.

Even if you want to create a new theory built around space you can't just pretend basic needs of a position like development, king safety, material, solid pawn structure and tactical shots don't exist; they must be part of your theories and certainly your play. And what's the point of playing so quickly against Fritz 8 - a GM strength opponent after all?!
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #111 - 01/18/09 at 23:20:08
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Seriously Sloughter, whom are you kidding here?
Your claim that white is winning after Nxc4 because he has achieved a favorable Morra gambit is the dumbest assesment I've ever seen on this site. White is completely lost, and if you're really serious about the stuff you write then there's your explanation why your rating is 1600. Once you abandon those illusions your rating will improve.

I guess if black plays in typical KID style after 9. Rb1 e5 10. d5 Nd4 11. f3 Nh5 12. Be3 f5 then the white king can get in trouble rather quickly.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #110 - 01/18/09 at 18:33:35
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The following game was played at 120/1 so that Fritz 8 was given at least one hour per move. I thought I was better but got lost in the complications. Perhaps someone can find improvements in White's play.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 (since everyone thinks this is junk, I'd like to call it the sloughter variation) c5 7.Rb1 cxb4 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6 (a wasted tempo. Black can improve here) 10.f3 (a Samisch!) Nd7 11.g3 Nb6 12.h3 Nxc4 (This is a favorable version of the Smith-Morra Gambit i.e. White played e4, Black c5, or it could be considered a Dragon Sicilian) The similarities to the Smith-Morra Gambit should be apparent. White has contiguous open b and c files as opposed to open c and d- files. As compensation for the pawn, White has much more space and better prospects for piece play. 13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 b4 16.Nd5 Ba6 17.Rf2 Qa5 18.Qb3 e6 19.Ne3 Na3 20.Rb2 Bxe2 21.Rfxe2 Nxd4 22.Qd1 Nxe2 23.Qxe2 Rfc8 (My trick didn't work; Fritz refuses to give me the dark squares) 24.Rc2 Nxc2 25.Nc4 Qxa2 26.Ne3 b3 27.Nc4 Nd4 28.Qd3 Rxc4 29.Qxc4 Nxf3ch (& Fritz announced mate in nine)

I think I missed a win here once I achieved the Smith-Morra structure, but the Knight hung out on c4 too long. If someone can find a way to evict the Knight, I think that White is better.Meat wrote on 01/16/09 at 15:21:49:
Sloughter's analysis makes the KID look like a forced win...


... for black.  Grin

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #109 - 01/18/09 at 15:33:32
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Richard I do remember that you've come up with some interesting and good ideas in openings like the Evan's Gambit, but you're clearly out of your element here.  Even in the variation (game) you gave where second best moves abound, Black is clearly better if not winning.  I suggest, instead of playing against Fritz 8, that you try out some of these ideas in correspondence or email tournaments since you say you play poorly OTB.    I'm sure many of your opponents will show you the downsides of overextension and slow development.  For what it's worth after 16.Nd5 Black can play 16...Ba6 and have a very good position.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #108 - 01/18/09 at 14:43:49
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"Steinitz's theories were ridiculed for decades"

hahaha Steinitz was world champion, not a 1600. games between a 1600 and Fritz 8 (!) will not be of interest to ANYBODY.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #107 - 01/18/09 at 13:16:45
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Steinitz's theories were ridiculed for decades and his dictum, "A pawn is worth a little trouble" did not impress his contemporaries so his theories were largely ignored for many years. I thought the post might like an example of my theories in action, so I played the following King's Indian Defense in my 6.b4 variation. To make it a valid test, I am requiring Fritz 8 to spend at least an hour for each of its moves. Here is the score of the game. Using my theories, I spent a few seconds to a minute or two on each move.

Moody-Fritz 8 120/1 King's Indian Sloughter Variation

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1 cxb4 (Since Fritz took 2 hours on this move, it must be considered one of the main lines---according to my theories, cxd4 costs Black a tempo and is no better)

8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 h6 (A wasted tempo; almost any developing move is better) 10.f3 (A Saemisch) Nd7 11.g3 (A developing move as I define development) Nb6 12.h3 (ditto) Nxc4 (You will note that I made no attempt to defend the pawn because we have transposed to a very favorable variation of either the Dragon Sicilian, or more correctly, a Smith-Morra Gambit i.e. White has played e4, Black, c5. The only difference is that White gets contiguous open b & c-files instead of contiguous open c & d files. This is much better than the Smith-Morra because White has perhaps 3-4 more tempos than the Smith-Morra. The win should be just a matter of technique.

13.Bg2 Rb8 14.O-O b5 15.Kh2 (You will note, as if by Magic (hint) White has the h2 pawn available to him) b4? (Fritz just drives the Knight where it wants to go but sees it is just hanging a pawn for no compensation if it doesn't push it. I played 15.Kh2 because we are in an endgame and my King is one move closer to the center than the Black King. It has the residual benefit of getting out of a potential pin.

You may wonder why I call this an endgame when no pieces have been exchanged. The answer is that for Black to make progress he must contest the center. I am going to own the center so the best he can do is chop wood & emerge with a postitional deficit. My strategy now is to create an outside passed pawn. My little guy on a2 is going to Queen in about 30 moves. The computer cannot assess the danger of the outside passed pawn because it is way over the computer's horizon i.e. it doesn't realize that my King Bishop controls the Queening square so this is going to cost the computer a piece at a minimum and more likely a Rook in 30 moves. If the computer doesn't contest the center, then I will win big material in the middlegame. Unless I make a terrible blunder this should be a routine win for White.

15...b4 (The horizon effect---the pawn is lost no matter what. Just e6 is better to prevent White's next move.) now the computer forces my Knight to go exactly where it wants to go i.e.d5/e3, so that I can gain a tempo and evict the Knight on c4, Fritz's only well placed piece, at the same time.

16.Nd5 +-

sloughter wrote on 01/16/09 at 11:19:30:
    It is interesting that you only find good moves for Black. How about finding some with White? You never questioned 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4!! c5 7.a3?, a critical strategic blunder. With the obvious 7.Rb1! White shuts down all tactical play by Black (The main tactical threat is to meet d5 with Nxe4 and a1 hangs) If you try something like 7...Nc6, I just play b5.
    Unless you can find something better, 7...cxb5 is best. White plays 8.Rxb4 & if Nc6, 9.Rb1. I would evaluate the final position as +/- OTB between Grandmasters of equal strength and +- theoretically. Here's why:

    White is playing against both Black Bishops. The King Bishop is useless for attacking purposes because there is nothing to attack of any significance on the long diagonal. What does Black do with his Queen Bishop? Bd7? If Black tries b6/Bb7, he has to be afraid of the minority attack a4/a5 for the rest of the game. There are no other squares for the Queen Bishop.
   You will note after an eventual d5 by White that Black has lost the key resource c6 contesting the center.
    White can continue g3/f3! (You will note that this is a supercharged Saemisch. Like I said, the Saemisch favors White), h3 & White can permanently keep a Knight out of g4. Then I would follow with Rh2/Rf2/Bg2 & maybe Kf1 should Black do something aggressive.
    According to my theories (I have never studied Queen pawn openings), this is pattern recognition for me. Now, White wins by advancing a pawn, rearrange his pieces, push another pawn, etc. until he pushes Black off the board.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #106 - 01/17/09 at 13:01:54
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wcywing wrote on 01/17/09 at 05:09:17:
clarification, is the beating the KID book a good compliment to Avruk's book?  why don't we ignore this one person that seems to be annoying everyone?  


I am confused as to what you are asking myself. Avruk Vol. 1 is a high level White repertoire for 1 d4 d5. Avruk Vol 2. will offer a high level White repertoire tackling the Indian and Dutch defenses, bases primarily on KB fianchettos.

Markos offers a choice of three lines for White against the KID - the Bayonet, "Korchnoi" and Makagonov. It does not cover the other Indian defences

That should be enough information for you to decide if it is good complement for you or not.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #105 - 01/17/09 at 05:09:17
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Bibs wrote on 01/16/09 at 14:39:37:
Not clear - you mean the Makagonov h3 Nh5 g3 stuff? (which is covered well in markos)
Or the fianchetto KID. (which of course is not - but seemingly will be in Avrukh II)
Can you please be a little clearer when you ask qs?


clarification, is the beating the KID book a good compliment to Avruk's book?  why don't we ignore this one person that seems to be annoying everyone? 
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #104 - 01/17/09 at 04:05:27
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""No one plays the Queen Bishop to [b7]". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?"

thsi comment excellently illustrates sloughter's 1600-level of understanding (if that). This thread is supposes to be about the Markos book, but it's been hijacked. it's only getting this much attention because it's like a train wreck.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #103 - 01/17/09 at 03:54:53
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Gerry1970 wrote on 01/17/09 at 02:35:13:
Hello All:

My question, in relation to Ender's comment, has got mired so I am hoping he or someone else can still help me. Ender said "I have this book and I'm not impressed at all. Krasenkow-system chapter is not so good."

Can anyone please tell me more about the coverage of the Makagonov/Krasenkow system? Is it not good because there is not a lot of good up-to-date theory or because the explanation of ideas is poor? Or do other people think this section is well covered. I play this system so I am appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Gerry


Probably it wasn't considered good because expectations were too high, as indicated by the title of the book Beat the King's Indian . Timothy Taylor has a book out with an equally ambitious title, that everyone seems to have quickly forgotten or dismissed, perhaps with good reason.  Wink

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #102 - 01/17/09 at 03:02:15
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"No one plays the Queen Bishop to b6". Hmm Lets see. If I play d5 and f3, the Queen Bishop can't go to e6, f5, g4, or h3. It is indeed powerfully placed on d7. or, perhaps, you intend to play Bd7/Be8/Bf7?
By the way I am confused---which one of us is undermining the center, b4 or c5? As far as your idea of "weakening the long diagonal", what is the Bishop doing on g7 when there is no pawn on b2 or a Rook on a1? Of what use is your King Bishop for attacking purposes? And you never suggest what Black is going to do with his Kingside---attack?? Attack what? If I play with the idea of taking away all your counterplay on the Kingside, what are your long term plans? You ignore the fact that you have lost the critical undermining tool in this variation, c6. Perhaps you should look at a board. I can improve on b5 with just the simple 7.Rb1 Nc6 8.bxc5 dxc5 9.d5 Ne5 10.Ng3 b6 (What else?) 11.f4 +-, or, 9.d5 Na5 10.Qd3 b6 11.f3 Ba6 12.Nb5 Qd7 13.a4 Threat---g3/h3/Rh2/Rf2/Bg2/Kf1/f4/e5+- This is the kind of pattern I would recognize in a blitz game.


mangler wrote on 01/16/09 at 12:00:13:
I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head.

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that.

Good luck with your studies.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #101 - 01/17/09 at 02:35:13
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Hello All:

My question, in relation to Ender's comment, has got mired so I am hoping he or someone else can still help me. Ender said "I have this book and I'm not impressed at all. Krasenkow-system chapter is not so good."

Can anyone please tell me more about the coverage of the Makagonov/Krasenkow system? Is it not good because there is not a lot of good up-to-date theory or because the explanation of ideas is poor? Or do other people think this section is well covered. I play this system so I am appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Gerry
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #100 - 01/17/09 at 00:05:04
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I've had a change of heart - I mean the guy did draw Alburt and came up with playable moves in double Kingpawn openings. In fact, maybe we should change the name of the game to MoodyChesstm
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #99 - 01/16/09 at 21:05:04
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sloughter wrote on 01/16/09 at 10:45:29:
You never questioned the key mistake made by White, the time wasting 7.a3?


In all seriousness, you don't really learn from your mistakes, do you? Who proposed 7.a3 again? Might it not be the case then that other moves proposed by you are not as good as you think?

When I had about your strength (now I am slightly more than 200 points higher) and began to study openings systemetically I had found a novelty in the Dutch Leningrad. I was very proud of it and showed it to a few of my clubmates (rated about 1900). It took them 10 minutes to refute my idea.
That thought me two lessons and I think you should learn them too.
1. Moves that strong at such an early stage all are found already by top players. It is possible even for patzers like us to bring up good new ideas, but refutations simply are not there. Your claims 4.Ng5 is a forced win and the KID is refuted are ridiculous. If your claims were justified they would have been found a long time ago.
2. At least 90% of patzer novelties is plain crap - it's just that the patzer doesn't see it. To make the other 10% work demands painful, long and hard work; a random try out against a computer is by far not enough. Even when the patzer manages to find something really useful (s)he never understands and finds out all the details and nuances.

Example: About ten years ago I found an improvement for Black in the Blumenfeld Gambit Accepted. I analysed it and played it in a corr game - against a human being - and won. So I send it to NIC. A few years after publishing Morozevich used it; the game was heavily analysed of course. Of all this I had hardly found anything, despite of my hard work.

Moral: patzers like us hardly understand how the pieces move. If they keep that in mind they might turn up with something useful now and then. If they don't they deserve all the slamming they get.

In short: if your b2-b4 had been as strong as you think, it would have been a main line since decades. In fact it violates some established principles of opening play (controlling the centre, development, king safety). So it is up to White to prove that the move is even playable.
And now I will leave this thread on the KID-addicts again. Lips Sealed
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #98 - 01/16/09 at 20:10:11
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Isn't it possible to make a new section on this forum.
Something called like "FAQ, openings questions for the wise Sloughter"
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #97 - 01/16/09 at 19:28:20
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Bibs wrote on 01/16/09 at 15:37:24:
With respect, a 1600 does not have 'analysis' as amply shown herein. Simply a succession of single moves, each of which appears to be a surprise.


I'm laughing hard now, this really amused me, although I have to admit that I recognise in myself some of the 'surprise' of which you speak.  Embarrassed

Can this thread get any better??
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #96 - 01/16/09 at 15:37:24
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With respect, a 1600 does not have 'analysis' as amply shown herein. Simply a succession of single moves, each of which appears to be a surprise.

Sloughter would be better off with some elementary strategy and tactics books. If KID is of interest, then Bronstein (trans. Neat) and Gallagher SOKID are good places to start.

But at the level of 1600, theory should not be the prime concern. Meanwhile, sloughter/moody is wasting everyone's time here, as this is a theory site. Please adjourn elsewhere (local chess club, shrink's couch, coffee with mum at home) until you have the most basic inkling of what you speak.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #95 - 01/16/09 at 15:21:49
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Sloughter's analysis makes the KID look like a forced win...


... for black.  Grin
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #94 - 01/16/09 at 14:39:37
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Not clear - you mean the Makagonov h3 Nh5 g3 stuff? (which is covered well in markos)
Or the fianchetto KID. (which of course is not - but seemingly will be in Avrukh II)
Can you please be a little clearer when you ask qs?
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #93 - 01/16/09 at 14:07:58
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so, should i get this book to complement my GM rep book d4?  made by the same publishers.  i usually like the g3 variation.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #92 - 01/16/09 at 13:32:56
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why are you guys arguing with a 1600's "analysis"? isn't this supposed to be a thread on the Markos book. At least "Anonymous" was causing havoc on the topical issue.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #91 - 01/16/09 at 12:00:13
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I have been trying not to comment on this thread, but this is too much....

Here is your line: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5 7.Rb1

Do you really think that cxb4 is best that black has, and that Black will have to play b6 and Bb7??? News flash, no King's indian player ever thinks of developing the queen bishop to b7. Maybe a queen's indian player, but even those guys stick it on a6 half the time.

I think you missed the whole point of 6...c5, which was to attack and undermine the center. Why would black want to trade the c pawn for the b pawn?? 7...cd4 is 1 obvious improvement. And on your proposed 7...Nc6 8.b5 then 8...Nxd4 seems even better for black. Keep in mind I am not looking at this on a board, just the one in my head.

There are basic principles in play here, and a reading of virtually any King's Indian book (starting out, mastering the KID, Bronstein on the KID, etc) will help you realize that.

Good luck with your studies.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #90 - 01/16/09 at 11:19:30
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     It is interesting that you only find good moves for Black. How about finding some with White? You never questioned 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4!! c5 7.a3?, a critical strategic blunder. With the obvious 7.Rb1! White shuts down all tactical play by Black (The main tactical threat is to meet d5 with Nxe4 and a1 hangs) If you try something like 7...Nc6, I just play b5.
     Unless you can find something better, 7...cxb5 is best. White plays 8.Rxb4 & if Nc6, 9.Rb1. I would evaluate the final position as +/- OTB between Grandmasters of equal strength and +- theoretically. Here's why:

     White is playing against both Black Bishops. The King Bishop is useless for attacking purposes because there is nothing to attack of any significance on the long diagonal. What does Black do with his Queen Bishop? Bd7? If Black tries b6/Bb7, he has to be afraid of the minority attack a4/a5 for the rest of the game. There are no other squares for the Queen Bishop.
    You will note after an eventual d5 by White that Black has lost the key resource c6 contesting the center.
     White can continue g3/f3! (You will note that this is a supercharged Saemisch. Like I said, the Saemisch favors White), h3 & White can permanently keep a Knight out of g4. Then I would follow with Rh2/Rf2/Bg2 & maybe Kf1 should Black do something aggressive.
     According to my theories (I have never studied Queen pawn openings), this is pattern recognition for me. Now, White wins by advancing a pawn, rearrange his pieces, push another pawn, etc. until he pushes Black off the board.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #89 - 01/16/09 at 10:45:29
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     It's interesting that you only find good moves for Black. How about finding some for White? 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4 c5, which you claim is pattern recognition. You never questioned the key mistake made by White, the time wasting 7.a3? when the simple 7.Rb1! takes away all the tactical stuff by Black i.e. there is now never a threat to meet Nxe4 with Bxa1, should White play d5, so White can play d5 any time he wants to. Meanwhile, you have given up the key resource c6 to contest the center after an eventual d5. White can cut the board in half, and, with his superior space, push Black off the board.

     White simply meets 7...cxb4 with 8.Rxb4 You will observe that White is playing against both Black Bishops. The King Bishop is all but useless on the a1-h8 diagonal and Black has nothing better at some point than playing b6/Bb7, but when? If you don't deal with the threat b5/a4, I will own the entire board. There is also the auxilliary threat of meeting b6/Bb7 with a minority attack i.e. in response to b6/Bb7, how does Black meet the simple threat LONG TERM of a4/a5?

What are you going to do with your Queen Bishop? Bd7? I intend to play g3/f3 (At long last, White gets to play a superior form of the Saemisch! Just like I said, the Saemisch is favorable to White, but move order is critical!) Now I would play, without thinking, h3 to permanently take away the g4 square from the Knights. Then I have the luxury of such things as Rh2/Rf2/Bg2 & something like Kf1, depending on how frisky Black gets on the Kingside. White has play over the entire board. I have never studied the King's Indian, but according to my theories, this is pattern recognition for me. Black has nothing better than 7...cxb4 8.Rxb4 Nc6 9.Rb1 +/=

Your move.

Stigma wrote on 01/15/09 at 14:25:29:
sloughter wrote on 01/15/09 at 13:31:24:
 It is well known that some theoreticians play poorly and some strong players are weak theoreticians (great coaches are not necessarily great players). It is an entirely different mind set. Some players thrive on adrenaline and the thrill of combat; others prefer quiet study in the absence of stress. It's all a matter of taste.


Sure there are some differences, but it is obviously not "an entirely different mind set". There is a strong correlation between being a strong theoretician, a strong player and a strong trainer (in particular one who wants to give advice to strong players).

What kind of seconds did Anand and Kramnik select for their WCh match? GMs only. What a strange coincidence, given that Leko, Kasimdzhanov, Wojtaszek et al. didn't have to play a single, stressful game!? The simple reason is the more you understand of chess (including technical skills of opening preparation in this case) the better equipped you are to play OR analyze OR train someone.

Take your line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 0-0 6.b4?!. You appear surprised by 6...c5, even giving it '!!' in an earlier post. I risk the claim that 6..c5 is the first or second candidate move most strong KID players will consider. I could have spared you that hour of Fritz analysis and suggested 6...c5 in a second. It's natural to look for a way to punish White's weakening of the long diagonal, and I think black might already have the advantage.

Even an expert-level player sees this possibility instantly, because I've seen this kind of pseudo-sacrifice so many times. It's all about pattern recognition. Do you really want to dispute that this kind of intuition is a common factor in great players, trainers and analysts?

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #88 - 01/16/09 at 02:00:49
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Like others I too am enjoying this thread, probably a bit more than I should, and for all the wrong reasons to boot. No doubt I will later regret this, but let’s do some reflection and perhaps toss some more wood on the proverbial fire.

Sloughter: You are right that I don't play well OTB, but in the only blitz game I have ever played against a Grandmaster, I did manage to draw GM Alburt on the Black side of a Blumenfeld Counter Gambit over the phone. Lev later said that I stood better for most of the middlegame, but I decided not to get greedy (When you are a 1600 player and a GM offers you a draw, it is a good idea to take it!) –END  


Really? I never would have guessed, you being so impressive in  phone blitz and all.  Cheesy


Sloughter: The concept of controlled space is epitomized by Anatoly Karpov---that is why he likes the Saemisch. His theories are so poorly understood that GM Seirawan made the following statement, "Karpov is the most confounding player I have ever known. Take a look at this position. All of White's pieces are on their first two ranks, but it is Black who has the problems!" What Karpov understands is that controlled space is disguised time i.e controlled space is time. When a player has more maneuvering room, he/she can rearrange their pieces more effectively compared to their opponent, hence they wind up with superior piece placement i.e. desirable development.-END

I managed to dig up a striking Kings Indian example of Slougter’s controlled space theory in action, using the doyen himself, Karpov, on the white side of the fearsome Saemisch. The example aptly features “All of White's pieces on their first two ranks” controlling Space disguised as, errrrr…… Time. Well enough talk, after all, a diagram speaks a thousand words:


* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* POSITION AFTER BLACK’S 19TH MOVE

Karpov,A (2725) - Kasparov,G (2805) [E86]
Linares 11, 1993

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Be3 e5 7.Nge2 Nbd7 8.Qd2 c6 9.Rd1 a6 10.dxe5 Nxe5 11.b3 b5 12.cxb5 axb5 13.Qxd6 Nfd7 14.f4 b4 15.Nb1 Ng4 16.Bd4 Bxd4 17.Qxd4 Rxa2 18.h3 c5 19.Qg1 Ngf6 20.e5 Ne4 21.h4 c4 22.Nc1 c3 23.Nxa2 c2 24.Qd4 cxd1Q+ 25.Kxd1 Ndc5 26.Qxd8 Rxd8+ 27.Kc2 Nf2  0-1

Ignorance is bliss so perhaps Kasparov was blissfully unaware of these new fandangled Controlled Space, Inner Space and Outer Space theories and saw only an opponent undeveloping pieces and begging to be crushed. Whatever the reason, eight moves later, as if by MAGIC, Black Magic that is, Karpov was forced to resign. Grin

Interestingly enough on the only documented occasion of Karpov playing the King’s Indian, was when he was 99% certain of facing the fearsome Saemisch. Further food for thought eh slought, although I’m sure you can find a way to rationalize this also.

Toppy Smiley



« Last Edit: 01/16/09 at 23:39:24 by TopNotch »  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #87 - 01/16/09 at 02:00:32
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Smashing hat. You taking orders? I would like mine in gold please. With silver stars.

Anyhow, enough of the Moody drivel. Duffer writes vacuous vanity book. Mum buys some copies - 'Well done son. Looks lovely' - gives to aunties and uncles, who put in boxes in respective attics. Nuff said.

Back to the chess...ok?
Markos' book - useful as a summary of the current state of things, as I had not really kept up to date - but adds little. Would have liked to se the author engage rather more with the material. Perhaps may have been useful for the author to focus more on one particular line. Solid, but not inspiring.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #86 - 01/15/09 at 14:52:02
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As always, and as befitting this site, drkodos will magnanimously share this never seen before, secret governmental hat analysis:



As it says on the paper DO NOT SHOW THIS TO ANYONE!



#30
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #85 - 01/15/09 at 14:44:05
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What's the frequency, Kenneth?




With my new wireless direct-to-brain internet connection I am beginning to understand Sloughter's insightful analysis much better now, thank you very much.


Sloughter:  I am sending you some moves with my psionic power.  

Do you copy?  

Over.



I think you will find they refute YOUr current ANALysis quite FOOLishly.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #84 - 01/15/09 at 14:25:29
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sloughter wrote on 01/15/09 at 13:31:24:
 It is well known that some theoreticians play poorly and some strong players are weak theoreticians (great coaches are not necessarily great players). It is an entirely different mind set. Some players thrive on adrenaline and the thrill of combat; others prefer quiet study in the absence of stress. It's all a matter of taste.


Sure there are some differences, but it is obviously not "an entirely different mind set". There is a strong correlation between being a strong theoretician, a strong player and a strong trainer (in particular one who wants to give advice to strong players).

What kind of seconds did Anand and Kramnik select for their WCh match? GMs only. What a strange coincidence, given that Leko, Kasimdzhanov, Wojtaszek et al. didn't have to play a single, stressful game!? The simple reason is the more you understand of chess (including technical skills of opening preparation in this case) the better equipped you are to play OR analyze OR train someone.

Take your line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 0-0 6.b4?!. You appear surprised by 6...c5, even giving it '!!' in an earlier post. I risk the claim that 6..c5 is the first or second candidate move most strong KID players will consider. I could have spared you that hour of Fritz analysis and suggested 6...c5 in a second. It's natural to look for a way to punish White's weakening of the long diagonal, and I think black might already have the advantage.

Even an expert-level player sees this possibility instantly, because I've seen this kind of pseudo-sacrifice so many times. It's all about pattern recognition. Do you really want to dispute that this kind of intuition is a common factor in great players, trainers and analysts?
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #83 - 01/15/09 at 13:51:36
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Dear Great One Sloughter,

You don't need to listen to these infidels. They are all unbelievers. They are not worthy of your time. Your theories are too profound for their simple minds.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #82 - 01/15/09 at 13:31:24
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     I play terribly OTB (Although one of my games did make into the notes of one World Open). It is well known that some theoreticians play poorly and some strong players are weak theoreticians (great coaches are not necessarily great players). It is an entirely different mind set. Some players thrive on adrenaline and the thrill of combat; others prefer quiet study in the absence of stress. It's all a matter of taste. I only play well against computers, for example, winning two games against Fritz 8 because it saw a draw by repetition, but tried to claim the draw without moving its pieces. Twice it ran itself out of time. This is an obvious programming glitch. In the Berliner Variation, I forced Fritz 8 to sacrifice two Rooks for Bishop and pawn to avoid being mated in the middlegame, winning easily (At this point I will avoid a shameless plug for my book where the game is given in its entirety!) In the Wilkes Barre/Traxler (see the post under 1.e4 e5 for the score of the game Moody-Fritz 8), I tried to emulate Karpov, and, in one of the sharpest openings in chess, was about to win a Rook in the middlegame, so I took the liberty of resigning for Fritz.

     My theories in the Berliner Variation refute the theories of World Correspondence Champion Dr. Hans Berliner and World Champion Garry Kasparov which have persisted for decades---just check BCO 2. (see the post under 1.e4 e5 for the analysis of a key position. Dr. Berliner and Kasparov in BCO 2, have the starting position as good for Black; I was able to demonstrate two entirely different winning plans for White. IM Jeremy Silman commented that the position endorsed by Berliner and Kasparov, "sucks for Black")

    You are right that I don't play well OTB, but in the only blitz game I have ever played against a Grandmaster, I did manage to draw GM Alburt on the Black side of a Blumenfeld Counter Gambit over the phone. Lev later said that I stood better for most of the middlegame, but I decided not to get greedy (When you are a 1600 player and a GM offers you a draw, it is a good idea to take it!) 

And your point is?ghenghisclown wrote on 01/15/09 at 07:24:09:
MNb wrote on 01/14/09 at 13:24:40:
Sue him. A GM analysing like an amateur and an amateur analysing like a GM - that cannot remain unpunished.
But could you explain what the move f2-f4 against the Scandinavian has to do with beating the King's Indian?



Hilarious!! Might be most amusing thread ever on Chesspub. Since we refuted the KID and Sveshnikov, the question is: What will Radjabov be forced to play next?

As for Sloughter's "agenda" question, I only wish to have fun and point out certain facts. Actually, I didn't say anything remotely controversial in the post. I just stated facts. Although if you really want to get nasty, let's deal with some of your claims from your website:

Quote:
Many simple strategies are offered [in his book]and the level of complexity goes all the way from beginner up to complex strategies that only Karpov understands.


Uh huh, you read it right. Even forgetting the logical contradiction, somehow he put into the book stuff demonstrative of the very highest understanding of chess. And yet, I'd never heard of this guy outside this kind of discussion.

Quote:
Recently I completed a book called Magic. It is intended to supersede the work of Steinitz and Nimzovich. The book consists of four parts: 1)A review of Steinitz and Nimzovich, 2)An odds game against a stronger computer; I gave it nine moves in a row at the start of the game, an extra hour on the clock for every move and using my theories of chess, was able to checkmate the computer in 108 moves. Before I played my first move, I knew what I had to do to defeat the computer.


If I had that kind of ability, I'd enter and win the North American Open (using my incredibly clever 'theories' of chess) and then go score some IM norms in Europe or something.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #81 - 01/15/09 at 07:24:09
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MNb wrote on 01/14/09 at 13:24:40:
Sue him. A GM analysing like an amateur and an amateur analysing like a GM - that cannot remain unpunished.
But could you explain what the move f2-f4 against the Scandinavian has to do with beating the King's Indian?



Hilarious!! Might be most amusing thread ever on Chesspub. Since we refuted the KID and Sveshnikov, the question is: What will Radjabov be forced to play next?

As for Sloughter's "agenda" question, I only wish to have fun and point out certain facts. Actually, I didn't say anything remotely controversial in the post. I just stated facts. Although if you really want to get nasty, let's deal with some of your claims from your website:

Quote:
Many simple strategies are offered [in his book]and the level of complexity goes all the way from beginner up to complex strategies that only Karpov understands.


Uh huh, you read it right. Even forgetting the logical contradiction, somehow he put into the book stuff demonstrative of the very highest understanding of chess. And yet, I'd never heard of this guy outside this kind of discussion.

Quote:
Recently I completed a book called Magic. It is intended to supersede the work of Steinitz and Nimzovich. The book consists of four parts: 1)A review of Steinitz and Nimzovich, 2)An odds game against a stronger computer; I gave it nine moves in a row at the start of the game, an extra hour on the clock for every move and using my theories of chess, was able to checkmate the computer in 108 moves. Before I played my first move, I knew what I had to do to defeat the computer.


If I had that kind of ability, I'd enter and win the North American Open (using my incredibly clever 'theories' of chess) and then go score some IM norms in Europe or something.
  

"Experience is a dim lamp, which only lights the one who bears it."
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #80 - 01/15/09 at 04:59:38
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For what it's worth, sloughter, that last line, as well as e.g. 9...cd 10. Nxd4 Nxe3, provides plenty of punishment.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #79 - 01/15/09 at 04:38:10
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Ender wrote on 01/12/09 at 15:14:07:
I have this book and I'm not impressed at all. Krasenkow-system chapter is not so good. And Markos didn't find any advantage in Korchnoi section either.
I have most of QualityChess books, but this one is not QUALITY at all Sad


Hello:

Can you please tell me why you did not like the coverage of the Makagonov/Krasenkow system? Is it because there is not a lot of good up-to-date theory or because the explanation of ideas is poor? I play this system so I am appreciate any help.

On a side note, the naming of variations is interested. It was always called the Makagonov System afaik. Just because Krasenkow plays it a lot, and seemingly well, it now called by his name.

Thanks in advance,

Gerry
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #78 - 01/15/09 at 04:00:17
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     I do thank you for your concern for my mental health---it is much appreciated! By the way, your observations apply to your posts! But, for some reason, I too, thought this was a post on the KING'S INDIAN, not a slam Sloughter post. If you insist on feeding me high inside fast balls, I will continue to drive them out of the ballpark!

     Here is my feeble attempt at my initial exposure to the King's Indian. Based on my principles of development, I thought that the Saemisch (6.f3) was a great opening but it allows 6...c5! giving Black excellent opportunities to equalize. So White must improve on 6.f3. Since 6...c5 is a threat, why not play the following move order? 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.d4 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4!? This is an anti-Bishop strategy and an attempt to discourage c5 i.e. White intends to play against both Black Bishops. After 5 minutes of computation, Fritz 8 coughed up 6...Nfd7?! I intended to meet this with 7.a4. For its spatial deficit, Black doesn't appear to have much in the way of an imposing lead in development. Perhaps someone can find a way to meet White's simple threat, Ra2/Rd2/Bb2. Of course Black can continue his "attack" with 7.a4 Nb6 hitting the c4 pawn (Recommended by Fritz 8). After 8.Qd3 can anyone see a tactical refutation of the White position? I do see a lot of controlled space.

     The concept of controlled space is epitomized by Anatoly Karpov---that is why he likes the Saemisch. His theories are so poorly understood that GM Seirawan made the following statement, "Karpov is the most confounding player I have ever known. Take a look at this position. All of White's pieces are on their first two ranks, but it is Black who has the problems!" What Karpov understands is that controlled space is disguised time i.e controlled space is time. When a player has more maneuvering room, he/she can rearrange their pieces more effectively compared to their opponent, hence they wind up with superior piece placement i.e. desirable development. This is how Karpov wins games. He grabs controlled space, rearranges his pieces, pushes a pawn, grabs more controlled space, eventually pushing his opponents off the edge of the board.

If Black doesn't react quickly here, he too, in this position, has to fight for space. The question is how to do this. Perhaps the reader can suggest a way. Somehow, I can't believe that Fritz's suggestion of Nfd7/Nb6 has much going for it. I could be wrong.

After an hour's computation, Fritz finds 6...c5! In my opinion, this is the only move to give White problems. Since the whole point of 6.b4 is to discourage c5, this concept may have theoretical significance. First of all both captures give Black the advantage i.e. 7.dxc5 dxc5 & it is a bad idea to play 8.Qxd8 because it pulls the Rook to the desirable square d8. The other capture, bxc5 gives White nothing. Lacking imagination, I asked Fritz what to do. It suggested 7.a3! simply anchoring the pawn on b4. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to play either 7...cxb4 or 7...cxd4. On the obvious 7...Nc6, White can play 8.Be3 Ng4 9.g3 Nxe3 10.fxe3 cxb4 11.axb4 Nxb4 12.Ra4 Nc6
13.Bg2 with compensation.

In summary, if White can "get away" with 6.b4 and not be punished quickly, how does Black make up his spatial deficit with tactics?drkodos wrote on 01/14/09 at 14:00:49:
Dissociative disorders are treatable.


Get help.



Indicators of a delusion:
(Munro, 1999)

~ The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
~ That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
~Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
~The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
~There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
~An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
~The belief is, at the least, unlikely.
~The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his psyche.


Sincerely,

~ drkodos

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #77 - 01/14/09 at 18:33:09
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Poll, please - most amusing thread ever?

Grin
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #76 - 01/14/09 at 15:52:53
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mnb:  You have a serious flaw in your analysis.  Lucky I am here with Colossus & ENIAC to help.  

Where is the inclusion of the law of entropy?

If you look closely at enough games, you will see all positions degrade over time.  Given enough time, all the pieces could even disappear, with possible exception of Kings, because of the law of chess.

Thus, the obvious conclusion is the cycle of repeated Big Bang events must be true!  How else would the entropy of all games be reversed so as to have the pieces back to their starting sqaures?





I smell Nobel prize.

Signed,

Rupert Pupkin
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #75 - 01/14/09 at 15:43:18
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More, more!  Grin
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #74 - 01/14/09 at 15:12:33
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@Fluffy
The refutation of the Sveshnikov is a no brainer. The way I understand development 1...c5 loses two tempi, one because it does not develop and one because Black has to move this pawn again making scope for Bf8. After following GM Shamkovich' advise and studying Morphy's games I understand how White must take benefit: with speedy development. Then White must organise an attack against f7.

1.e4
-wins by force; alas I haven't spend attention to the Caro-Kann yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that my method of trial and error will succeed in finding a refutation here as well. It is just a matter of time.

1...c5
-as explained, this loses two tempi. Moreover it seriously weakens square c7. White's strategy must be threatening this weakness and then suddenly switch pieces to the other side of the board. That must be decisive.

2.Nf3 Nc6
-protects square e5, the ultimate key to Black's defence.

3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6
-not so much to attack pawn e4, but to prevent White's potentially deadly attack against c7 via d5. White's strategy already bears fruits. Now White has to change his strategical goal.

5.Nc3 e5
-the consequence of Black's second move, so there is no need to look at other options. Note the similarity of the pawn structure with the Dutch Stonewall. There the attack on the queen's wing is mandatory, so here the kingside ultimately will decide.

6.Nf3
-This is not a retreat, it is the introduction to a grand scale attack.

6...Bb4
-more protection of the weakness on c7; Nc3-b5 is prevented.

7.Qe2
-the strenght of this concept is discovered by R.Moody, who uses it to refute the Petrov.

7...Bxc3+
-or White might castle and revive the threats against c7.

8.bxc3 a6
-following Sveshnikov's concept of the extended fianchetto is the only consequent plan for Black.

9.a4 b6
-because of White's last move Black prefers the small fianchetto instead.

10.Qc4!
-limits Black's development of the Queen's Bishop to one square, as 10...d6 loses a piece.

10...Bb7 11.Ng5 h6
-White's dominating knight cannot be tolerated.

12.Qxf7
mate.

Anand certainly will abandon the Sveshnikov as I have send him this straightforward winning line. It shows the poor sportmanship of all GM's that he hasn't given me the credit I deserve. Those who do not fully grasp the strategical intricacies must wait until my book is published. It's titled The meaning of Newton's Third Law for Modern Chess Theory. My revolutionary theory is based on a simple empirically verified fact: White acts, Black reacts. I am still contemplating if I must include a chapter on Hegel's Dialectics applied to Chess or present my ideas in a seperate volume. The conclusion is a no-brainer: the goal of history is to play the ultimate chess game. How this game will go is unknown yet, but we can have an idea by applying Newton's Third Law.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #73 - 01/14/09 at 14:00:49
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Dissociative disorders are treatable.


Get help.



Indicators of a delusion:
(Munro, 1999)

~ The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
~ That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
~Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
~The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
~There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
~An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
~The belief is, at the least, unlikely.
~The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his psyche.


Sincerely,

~ drkodos
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #72 - 01/14/09 at 13:49:52
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In their review of my book Magic, here is what Chess4less had to say, "If you are looking for a book with the patina of professionalism, this is not the book for you. If you are looking for 260 pages of new ideas this is the book for you. With over 300 diagrams, you can read it in a car, on a train, plane or subway and learn more theoretical novelites while you relax without needing a board or a computer. In terms of shear quantity, this book has more major TN's than any book we have seen in the past several years." Is this what you mean by snake oil? I do thank my critics for their shameless attempts to serve as shills for my book!sloughter wrote on 01/14/09 at 13:14:05:
    Shamkovich slammed me with incredibly bad analysis and evalutation (anyone know the analysis in Chess Life?; it is published maybe 15 years ago?) Why did he slam me? Because he overcharged me by doing analysis in the Marshall Gambit I neither requested nor wanted. When I refused to pay him, he decided to get even in print. Chess Life never gave me the opportunity to provide a rebuttal as far as the analysis and evaluation are concerned. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's ridiculous analysis and evaluation!

    If memory serves, it was something like this. I played the innovation f4 in the Center Counter with the idea of restraining e5. If Black played e6, one of the lines quoted by Shamkovich, the Black Queen Bishop was hemmed in. When Black castled he was simply in a losing middlegame a pawn down with no compensation. Shamkovich came from the school of chess that the initiative, no matter how fleeting, was worth a pawn. We learned long ago that a pawn is worth a little trouble. Steintitz could have beaten Shamkovich 8 games out of ten with the White position. Shamkovich's evaluations in the critical positions are laughable they are so bad.
    His analysis of the subject postion was amateurish. At a critical juncture, he had White playing the incredibly weak Nf3 and then "proved" Black's attack would win. The correct move was to meet a hit on f2 after the impending Bc5 with Nc3 so that after Bc5, white has the resource Ne4, hitting the Bishop on c5 and protecting the f2 square (A Black Knight was on g4). Shamkovich missed this obvious and forced reply.
    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's agenda driven, ridiculous and amateurish analysis and evaluation after 15 years! Perhaps if the reader had known the back story that Shamkovich "had an axe to grind", the writer would be advised to know our history.
    By the way. What is your agenda? You seem awfully determined to discredit me. Why?ghenghisclown wrote on 01/14/09 at 10:06:39:
I recall reading in Chess Life one day GM Shamkovich (not exactly a weakie) slam this guy for criticizing his analysis on the Scandinavian "Opening for the Future." Shamkovich was looking at the Scandinavian as an underestimated opening, and this guy with "theories" wrote in to criticize the GM because, you know, 1.e4 wins by force.

What was interesting is that the Grandmaster told him he needed to look at Morphy games because he clearly did not understand (based on the gentleman's "analysis") the need for proper development and how to take advantage of lack thereof...

Although I wouldn't want to ban anyone who said "1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2 called , 'Playable' by Garry Kasparov."  Cheesy

But really if Bush hadn't succeeded in killing irony, this man will.


  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #71 - 01/14/09 at 13:41:47
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fluffy wrote on 01/14/09 at 13:35:25:
This would be like me trying to tell Anand that the Sveshnikov is refuted. uh huh.

Thanks, now I understand why Anand never answers my mails.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #70 - 01/14/09 at 13:38:13
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sloughter wrote on 01/14/09 at 13:14:05:
    Shamkovich slammed me with incredibly bad analysis and evalutation (anyone know the analysis in Chess Life?; it is published maybe 15 years ago?) Why did he slam me? Because he overcharged me by doing analysis in the Marshall Gambit I neither requested nor wanted. When I refused to pay him, he decided to get even in print. Chess Life never gave me the opportunity to provide a rebuttal as far as the analysis and evaluation are concerned. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's ridiculous analysis and evaluation!

    If memory serves, it was something like this. I played the innovation f4 in the Center Counter with the idea of restraining e5. If Black played e6, one of the lines quoted by Shamkovich, the Black Queen Bishop was hemmed in. When Black castled he was simply in a losing middlegame a pawn down with no compensation. Shamkovich came from the school of chess that the initiative, no matter how fleeting, was worth a pawn. We learned long ago that a pawn is worth a little trouble. Steintitz could have beaten Shamkovich 8 games out of ten with the White position. Shamkovich's evaluations in the critical positions are laughable they are so bad.
    His analysis of the subject postion was amateurish. At a critical juncture, he had White playing the incredibly weak Nf3 and then "proved" Black's attack would win. The correct move was to meet a hit on f2 after the impending Bc5 with Nc3 so that after Bc5, white has the resource Ne4, hitting the Bishop on c5 and protecting the f2 square (A Black Knight was on g4). Shamkovich missed this obvious and forced reply.
    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's agenda driven, ridiculous and amateurish analysis and evaluation after 15 years! Perhaps if the reader had known the back story that Shamkovich "had an axe to grind", the writer would be advised to know our history.
   


Clearly you have not yet been recognized for your great wisdom. Take heart, my friend, many of the great prophets were insulted and even killed. Sometimes feeble man cannot acknowledge great seers. Fear, not, I am sure history will vindicate you. In the next century, we will all be quoting from the great Sloughter.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #69 - 01/14/09 at 13:38:09
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #68 - 01/14/09 at 13:35:25
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sorry, but a 1600 player claiming the KID is "refuted" is not going to carry much weight. he gets way too much attention banging on his drum. sorry dude, you just don't understand chess well enough. this would be like me trying to tell Anand that the Sveshnikov is refuted. uh huh.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #67 - 01/14/09 at 13:24:40
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Sue him. A GM analysing like an amateur and an amateur analysing like a GM - that cannot remain unpunished.
But could you explain what the move f2-f4 against the Scandinavian has to do with beating the King's Indian?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #66 - 01/14/09 at 13:14:05
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     Shamkovich slammed me with incredibly bad analysis and evalutation (anyone know the analysis in Chess Life?; it is published maybe 15 years ago?) Why did he slam me? Because he overcharged me by doing analysis in the Marshall Gambit I neither requested nor wanted. When I refused to pay him, he decided to get even in print. Chess Life never gave me the opportunity to provide a rebuttal as far as the analysis and evaluation are concerned. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's ridiculous analysis and evaluation!

     If memory serves, it was something like this. I played the innovation f4 in the Center Counter with the idea of restraining e5. If Black played e6, one of the lines quoted by Shamkovich, the Black Queen Bishop was hemmed in. When Black castled he was simply in a losing middlegame a pawn down with no compensation. Shamkovich came from the school of chess that the initiative, no matter how fleeting, was worth a pawn. We learned long ago that a pawn is worth a little trouble. Steintitz could have beaten Shamkovich 8 games out of ten with the White position. Shamkovich's evaluations in the critical positions are laughable they are so bad.
     His analysis of the subject postion was amateurish. At a critical juncture, he had White playing the incredibly weak Nf3 and then "proved" Black's attack would win. The correct move was to meet a hit on f2 after the impending Bc5 with Nc3 so that after Bc5, white has the resource Ne4, hitting the Bishop on c5 and protecting the f2 square (A Black Knight was on g4). Shamkovich missed this obvious and forced reply.
     Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to Shamkovich's agenda driven, ridiculous and amateurish analysis and evaluation after 15 years! Perhaps if the reader had known the back story that Shamkovich "had an axe to grind", the writer would be advised to know our history.
     By the way. What is your agenda? You seem awfully determined to discredit me. Why?ghenghisclown wrote on 01/14/09 at 10:06:39:
I recall reading in Chess Life one day GM Shamkovich (not exactly a weakie) slam this guy for criticizing his analysis on the Scandinavian "Opening for the Future." Shamkovich was looking at the Scandinavian as an underestimated opening, and this guy with "theories" wrote in to criticize the GM because, you know, 1.e4 wins by force.

What was interesting is that the Grandmaster told him he needed to look at Morphy games because he clearly did not understand (based on the gentleman's "analysis") the need for proper development and how to take advantage of lack thereof...

Although I wouldn't want to ban anyone who said "1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2 called , 'Playable' by Garry Kasparov."  Cheesy

But really if Bush hadn't succeeded in killing irony, this man will.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #65 - 01/14/09 at 13:10:09
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sloughter wrote on 01/14/09 at 03:16:38:
My credentials seem to be one of your concerns so here goes.

Two of my innovations have been awarded the winner in the "Best Question Contest" by GM Larry Evans, essentially the top award an amateur can win.



Grin

  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #64 - 01/14/09 at 10:06:39
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I recall reading in Chess Life one day GM Shamkovich (not exactly a weakie) slam this guy for criticizing his analysis on the Scandinavian "Opening for the Future." Shamkovich was looking at the Scandinavian as an underestimated opening, and this guy with "theories" wrote in to criticize the GM because, you know, 1.e4 wins by force.

What was interesting is that the Grandmaster told him he needed to look at Morphy games because he clearly did not understand (based on the gentleman's "analysis") the need for proper development and how to take advantage of lack thereof...

Although I wouldn't want to ban anyone who said "1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2 called , 'Playable' by Garry Kasparov."  Cheesy

But really if Bush hadn't succeeded in killing irony, this man will.
« Last Edit: 01/14/09 at 11:10:16 by ghenghisclown »  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #63 - 01/14/09 at 04:57:16
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I miss "Anonymous".
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #62 - 01/14/09 at 03:16:38
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My credentials seem to be one of your concerns so here goes. My theories have been reviewed and approved by World Champion Garry Kasparov, GM Max Dlugy, GM Lev Alburt and GM Andy Soltis who gave two of my books favorable reviews in the New York Post calling my Evans Gambit book, "A well researched original analysis of an old opening." IM Gerard Welling and ICM van der Tak corresponded with me for months over my new opening system for Black. Apparently, I was just wasting their time with hackneyed ideas. ICM John Elburg and I have been playing casual games for months in the Latvian Gambit, an opening where he is one of the world's leading experts. I've drawn two out of four games and came up with an innovation good enough for John to ask the following question, "All the variations favor White. But what to do, give up the Latvian Gambit? I like it too much!" This was an innovation in the game Fischer-Pupols won by Pupols. You may not have heard of Pupols. Have you heard of Fischer? I improved on his play. Two of my innovations have been awarded the winner in the "Best Question Contest" by GM Larry Evans, essentially the top award an amateur can win. I have been given kudos by the Editor of Chess Life. I have had my games published in Chess Life and Inside Chess and have had two openings named after to me by various columnists (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2 called , "Playable" by Garry Kasparov. My innovation in the Petroff 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 N! in one of the oldest openings in chess has been named after me by Bill Wall and appears in several data bases.

And your qualifications to call my book snake oil are...? =antillian link=1226348173/45#58 date=1231889860]sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:29:05:
Some of my analysis has been published in Chess Life. By the way, it was reviewed and validated by Garry Kasparov. I assume you have heard of him.


Garry.....who??? Huh Yeah, I think I heard of him....he is some Russian politician right? Undecided
[/quote]
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #61 - 01/14/09 at 01:33:16
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TopNotch wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:45:21:
John....who???  Huh

Tops Smiley


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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #60 - 01/14/09 at 00:47:52
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TopNotch wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:45:21:
sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:29:05:
Some of my analysis has been published in Chess Life. By the way, it was reviewed and validated by Garry Kasparov. I assume you have heard of him.Antillian wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:18:29:
sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:10:35:
Funny you say that. ICM John Elburg in his review called it, "Amazing"


John Elburg is known for giving every single book a good review.



John....who???  Huh

Tops Smiley


You don't want to know, trust me. Antillian is right: Elburg being positive on a chess book is like the pope being positive on praying.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #59 - 01/13/09 at 23:45:21
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sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:29:05:
Some of my analysis has been published in Chess Life. By the way, it was reviewed and validated by Garry Kasparov. I assume you have heard of him.Antillian wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:18:29:
sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:10:35:
Funny you say that. ICM John Elburg in his review called it, "Amazing"


John Elburg is known for giving every single book a good review.



John....who???  Huh

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #58 - 01/13/09 at 23:37:40
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sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:29:05:
Some of my analysis has been published in Chess Life. By the way, it was reviewed and validated by Garry Kasparov. I assume you have heard of him.


Garry.....who??? Huh Yeah, I think I heard of him....he is some Russian politician right? Undecided
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #57 - 01/13/09 at 23:29:05
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Some of my analysis has been published in Chess Life. By the way, it was reviewed and validated by Garry Kasparov. I assume you have heard of him.Antillian wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:18:29:
sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:10:35:
Funny you say that. ICM John Elburg in his review called it, "Amazing"


John Elburg is known for giving every single book a good review.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #56 - 01/13/09 at 23:18:29
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sloughter wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:10:35:
Funny you say that. ICM John Elburg in his review called it, "Amazing"


John Elburg is known for giving every single book a good review.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #55 - 01/13/09 at 23:10:35
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Funny you say that. ICM John Elburg in his review called it, "Amazing"TopNotch wrote on 01/13/09 at 23:03:06:
Just perused an excerpt from Sloughter's book 'Magic', it left me speechless to say the least. Final thoughts, if ya gunna peddle snake oil you deserve to be outed. Brings to mind that other cook book The Beginners Game which more or less repackaged the hippo as a brand new and unbeatable way to play the opening with White and Black that  according to the author was hitherto unknown to  chessplayers.....hardly surprising, considering the claims,l that he or she chose to write under a pseudonym.

As Bibs would say.... chess anyone Grin

Tops Smiley

Tops Smiley

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #54 - 01/13/09 at 23:03:06
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Just perused an excerpt from Sloughter's book 'Magic', it left me speechless to say the least. Final thoughts, if ya gunna peddle snake oil you deserve to be outed. Brings to mind that other cook book The Beginners Game which more or less repackaged the hippo as a brand new and unbeatable way to play the opening with White and Black that  according to the author was hitherto unknown to  chessplayers.....hardly surprising, considering the claims,l that he or she chose to write under a pseudonym.

As Bibs would say.... chess anyone Grin

Tops Smiley

  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #53 - 01/13/09 at 09:36:51
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Bibs wrote on 01/12/09 at 04:16:39:
fluffy wrote on 01/12/09 at 03:45:16:
is this a joke?


One has to presume and hope so. If not, oh dearie me.

Presume Tony K hires hacks from the local club, or possibly pub by the looks of some posts,  to be Anonymous, Sloughter etc, to liven things up with a heady mix of banality, bluster, misplaced self-assuredness and a resolute lack of chess knowledge.

A winning formula for trolling.

They cannot be real people, can they??!...



Bibs is just grumpy because he thought he had that market cornered...
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #52 - 01/13/09 at 01:49:25
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The Silicone monster is impressive. I thought I could put the beast in a bind with the following moves. 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nge2 O-O 6.b4! to restrain c5 & then the beast replied 6...c5!! anyway. I'll be playing this game against Fritz 8 at an hour/move and get back. Anyone who thinks Queen Pawn openings are positional, should try this line! Ender wrote on 01/12/09 at 15:14:07:
I have this book and I'm not impressed at all. Krasenkow-system chapter is not so good. And Markos didn't find any advantage in Korchnoi section either.
I have most of QualityChess books, but this one is not QUALITY at all Sad

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #51 - 01/12/09 at 19:13:11
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Hi!

Markos mentions a line he finds very interesting (page 153):

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Be3 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bf2 g5 13. a4 Ng6 14. Nb5 Nf6 15. Nxa7
g4 16. Nxc8 g3 17. hxg3 Nh5 18. gxf4 exf4 19. Na7 Ng3 20. Nb5 Qh4 21. Bd4 Bxd4+
22. Nxd4 Ne5

Does anyone have practical experiences in that variation? 15.Bd7 is another idea for Black. After 22...Ne5 so far I've tried 23.Bd3 and 23.Nd3. It's extremely difficult (at least for me) to analyse the position without the pc, as there are 100s of threats and traps.

As 14.Nb5 is extremely logical (13.Nb5 is met with 13...b6, 14...b6 is met by a5!) so I guess the line is critical for the whole KID.

Any brilliant ideas? Wink

huibui
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #50 - 01/12/09 at 15:14:07
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I have this book and I'm not impressed at all. Krasenkow-system chapter is not so good. And Markos didn't find any advantage in Korchnoi section either.
I have most of QualityChess books, but this one is not QUALITY at all Sad
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #49 - 01/12/09 at 14:30:38
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Markovich wrote on 01/12/09 at 14:22:00:
Antillian wrote on 01/12/09 at 14:00:38:
The Hand,

With all due respect, I don't think it is appropriate to "out" someone else's identity for them if they have chosen not to reveal it themselves.


Exactly.  Contemptible. "The Hand's" post should be removed, pronto.  For some weird reason, if you quote sloughter's posts, you discover this info, and I sent him a message about this problem.  But apparently he failed to correct it before someone outed him.  


The user must have originally signed-up using that name and then made change after the account was created, I am guessing.  If this is the case, it cannot "be corrected" as he chose to register this way.  It can, however, be changed by a webmaster.



But, internet postings, links and records are public domain, folks.  


A cautionary tale.


##############

Added post-post, a good time later.


More, now after I have spent some time thinking about it:  How is this outing a person?  

The person in question posted info on the web for the reason of it getting attention and being seen by other people.  All website info that is readily avaiable, in the public domain, and was provided by the individual in question, for the purpose of diseminating said info.

I argue that when a person puts info on a web page, they want it to be seen by as many people as possible.  I am not arguing the validity of any of it, only the intent/purpose of having it posted.

Linking from one site to another is standard web practice, not illegal, not unethical.

Using all info that the user provided themselves (in an attempt at self PR) coalating it, and posting it in an index list is doing exactly what that individual desires, as evidenced by their placing said info on web to begin with, and in such a fashion as to allow it, and even promote it (meaning: it was not encrypted, there was no security breach/ no computer "hacking")

Now, it may be against a particular website's ethical mores (in which case they should make it part of their policy and user agreement -- and that is not such a bad idea!), but it is not morally wrong because it is in fact exactly what that individual wants:

Attention.


Think about it.


So long as the info was accurate, true, not malicious and posted on the web by the individual, there really is no issue, legally, ethically, morally, or any other way except for perhaps questioning the wisdom of putting personal info in cyberspace to begin with.


My final argument is that Sloughter's posts are SPAM.  And as such, it is those posts that should be removed.  They are merely advertising for his book.  Thinly vieled, poorly strategized, but nonetheless, they are merely advertisements for the Snake oil product he is selling.  As such, he should be outed in more ways than one!

BTW:  I like the Samisch.


#30


Epilogue:  And now I see this rant is made moot as the info is gone anyway.  If only all problems in the world disappeared so easily.  Smiley

  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #48 - 01/12/09 at 14:27:58
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Markovich wrote on 01/12/09 at 14:22:00:
Antillian wrote on 01/12/09 at 14:00:38:
The Hand,

With all due respect, I don't think it is appropriate to "out" someone else's identity for them if they have chosen not to reveal it themselves.


Exactly.  Contemptible. "The Hand's" post should be removed, pronto.  For some weird reason, if you quote sloughter's posts, you discover this info, and I sent him a message about this problem.  But apparently he failed to correct it before someone outed him.  


it's still there... weird
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #47 - 01/12/09 at 14:22:00
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Antillian wrote on 01/12/09 at 14:00:38:
The Hand,

With all due respect, I don't think it is appropriate to "out" someone else's identity for them if they have chosen not to reveal it themselves.


Exactly.  Contemptible. "The Hand's" post should be removed, pronto.  For some weird reason, if you quote sloughter's posts, you discover this info, and I sent him a message about this problem.  But apparently he failed to correct it before someone outed him.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #46 - 01/12/09 at 14:21:23
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He did reveal it himself, use the "Quote" feature on his posts.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #45 - 01/12/09 at 14:00:38
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The Hand,

With all due respect, I don't think it is appropriate to "out" someone else's identity for them if they have chosen not to reveal it themselves.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #44 - 01/12/09 at 13:51:57
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Edited
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #43 - 01/12/09 at 13:42:50
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Greetings,

Perhaps it's a computer which has developed a personality!? Huh

R2D2!! Cheesy

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #42 - 01/12/09 at 04:16:39
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fluffy wrote on 01/12/09 at 03:45:16:
is this a joke?


One has to presume and hope so. If not, oh dearie me.

Presume Tony K hires hacks from the local club, or possibly pub by the looks of some posts,  to be Anonymous, Sloughter etc, to liven things up with a heady mix of banality, bluster, misplaced self-assuredness and a resolute lack of chess knowledge.

A winning formula for trolling.

They cannot be real people, can they??!...





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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #41 - 01/12/09 at 03:45:16
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is this a joke?
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #40 - 01/12/09 at 03:41:52
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Fritz 8 has as a book line one that appears to favor White: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 O-O 6.Be3 Nc6? 7.Nge2 a6 8.Rb1 Nd7 9.b4 & I think White is better. I'll have to work on 6...c5 kylemeister wrote on 01/11/09 at 21:44:35:
White is evidently worse after that Bf4xe5 operation.  And f4 is something he would naturally like to play at some point.  By the way, the idea isn't that Black is better (or, uh, winning) after 6...c5, just that it is perhaps a cleaner equalizer than other lines.

One thing I'm reminded of here is a game Gheorghiu-Shirov.  It might even be cited in ECO (recommended by Alburt as a valuable tool for club players, to keep them from reinventing the wheel) ...

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #39 - 01/11/09 at 21:44:35
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White is evidently worse after that Bf4xe5 operation.  And f4 is something he would naturally like to play at some point.  By the way, the idea isn't that Black is better (or, uh, winning) after 6...c5, just that it is perhaps a cleaner equalizer than other lines.

One thing I'm reminded of here is a game Gheorghiu-Shirov.  It might even be cited in ECO (recommended by Alburt as a valuable tool for club players, to keep them from reinventing the wheel) ...
« Last Edit: 01/11/09 at 23:08:20 by kylemeister »  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #38 - 01/11/09 at 20:55:38
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Here is the first game I have played in the King's Indian. White gets a decent game as long as he doesn't play f4. Here is the score of the game: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 O-O 5.f3 d6 6.Be3 c5 7.Qd2 Nc6 8.Nge2 b6 9.Rd1 e6 10.g3 Bb7 11.Bg2 Qe7 12.Kf2 Rad8 13.d5 Ne5 14.b3 exd5 15.exd5 a6 16.a4 Rfe8 17.h3 Bc8 18.Nc1 Qc7 19.Rhe1 Re7 20.Bf4 Rde8 21.Bxe5 Rxe5 22.Rxe5 Re1 23.Rxe1 Qxe1 & White seems okay.Glenn Snow wrote on 01/11/09 at 15:01:06:
sloughter
Quote:
Why isn't White simply winning in the King's Indian with the Saemisch? This is the only major opening by White where he simply carves out controlled space in the opening i.e. all of his pieces are in back of his pawns. What if White just plays something like c4/d4/Nc3/e4/f3/Be3/g3/Bg2/Nh3/Nf2/Nd3, push his Queenside pawns, rearrange his pieces behind his pawn wall, and just wait for the right moment to open the position with a winning Classical attack, complete with sacrifices, etc.?


Well Sloughter I think White would get slaughtered.  But in all seriousness don't you think the King's Indian wouldn't be so popular if it were that simple.  Since Black has started playing 6...c5! the popularity of the Saemisch has gone down.  I don't think White has enough time to get the setup you mentioned especially after weakening the dark squares like that.  

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #37 - 01/11/09 at 20:30:19
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Awesome!  This goes Berliner one better, by proposing one winning grand plan regardless of how Black is playing.

Incidentally, I seem to recall that Berliner's book ignored 6. Be3 c5 (well, it had only been a major line for something like a decade), though he refuted the likes of 6...e5 and 6...Nc6 (albeit by e.g. giving lines taken further and considered equal or unclear by others).
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #36 - 01/11/09 at 15:01:06
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sloughter
Quote:
Why isn't White simply winning in the King's Indian with the Saemisch? This is the only major opening by White where he simply carves out controlled space in the opening i.e. all of his pieces are in back of his pawns. What if White just plays something like c4/d4/Nc3/e4/f3/Be3/g3/Bg2/Nh3/Nf2/Nd3, push his Queenside pawns, rearrange his pieces behind his pawn wall, and just wait for the right moment to open the position with a winning Classical attack, complete with sacrifices, etc.?


Well Sloughter I think White would get slaughtered.  But in all seriousness don't you think the King's Indian wouldn't be so popular if it were that simple.  Since Black has started playing 6...c5! the popularity of the Saemisch has gone down.  I don't think White has enough time to get the setup you mentioned especially after weakening the dark squares like that.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #35 - 01/11/09 at 12:37:35
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Why isn't White simply winning in the King's Indian with the Saemisch? This is the only major opening by White where he simply carves out controlled space in the opening i.e. all of his pieces are in back of his pawns. What if White just plays something like c4/d4/Nc3/e4/f3/Be3/g3/Bg2/Nh3/Nf2/Nd3, push his Queenside pawns, rearrange his pieces behind his pawn wall, and just wait for the right moment to open the position with a winning Classical attack, complete with sacrifices, etc.?Jacob Aagaard wrote on 12/15/08 at 15:59:21:
The main contributions to theory are in the 6.h3 chapter and the Korchnoi chapters as far as I can see.

I don't think the title is misleading. How often are people playing the Glek variation and how much do you need to know to play against it?

Clearly Avrukh has spent more energy on finding new ideas, but I personally find Markos coverage interesting. We are not putting it forward as book of the year, but we are not certainly embarrassed about it as well.

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #34 - 01/03/09 at 01:41:49
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Keano wrote on 12/30/08 at 17:06:03:
I go along with what some previous reviewers have said - this book is basically nothing special - at times the author goes out of his way not to make a decision as to the best continuations, and tries to cover too much material in not enough depth. Not up to usual Quality Chess standard - sorry if sounds harsh, but trying to be objective.


Perhaps a better title would have been [url]Trying to Beat the King's Indian[/url], although admittedly it doesn't sound as catchy.
FYI.....any book with the heading Beat the in the title, is bound to be a let down, unless of course it is followed by the words Kings Gambit, Blackmar Diemer or Latvian etc.  Tongue

But seriously though, I can honestly say as a KID player for many years that I have not seen anything past or present that comes even  close to threatening the existence of it, both the Classical for  Vegetarians with 7...Na6 and the Meat eaters variety with 7...Nc6 are both in good shape as far as I can tell.  

Curiously the three systems offered by Markos are definitely not for everyone, and liable to get many White players mated unless they have an exceptional defensive grasp, strong nerves, and a highly developed sense of danger. Think I'm kidding..... take a look at the important game  Roussel Roozmon, T vs Charbonneau, P - 2008 played towards the end of last year and featuring the fearsome Roll Eyes Bayonet Attack, where Charbonneau improves on the already promising analysis given in Golubev's Understanding the KID and in so doing blew a hole in Khalifman's recommendation in Opening For White According to Kramnik the size of a crater!!.

I had intended to include the above mentioned game with extensive notes and guidelines, in a Matemax inspired KID update I was preparing to submit, had the crisis with that section not soon been resolved. Of course there is no guarantee that Tony would have accepted it, either way the work was not wasted, as I managed to unearth quite a bit during the analytical process and learnt a lot along the way.  

The KID is alive and well, and its comforting to know that not only Radjabov is making important contributions to its theory.

Toppy Smiley

  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #33 - 01/02/09 at 11:32:10
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I don't know - I looked at the Ne1 section and found it quite instructive and interesting, although maybe that's because I knew nothing about it to start with. He seems to share his own views and ideas quite freely, and the same in the h3 section. The Bayonet section struck me as weaker, and moves that aren't 6...e5 and 7...Nc6 are certainly taken at a bit of a canter.

It is slightly curious to be offering three separate repertoires for White, but maybe that's modern chess at a database/laptop level - you just can't play the same way every time.

It seems to me that if someone wanted to prepare seriously for the KID this would be a pretty good place to start. Sometimes purporting to give all the answers isn't the best thing. And for what it's worth I found the author's tone rather engaging.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #32 - 12/30/08 at 17:06:03
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I go along with what some previous reviewers have said - this book is basically nothing special - at times the author goes out of his way not to make a decision as to the best continuations, and tries to cover too much material in not enough depth. Not up to usual Quality Chess standard - sorry if sounds harsh, but trying to be objective.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #31 - 12/26/08 at 10:56:02
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had a look at this the other day- can't say it blew me away - seems very much a round up of developments which is useful but I didn't see too much original analysis in the ne1 and bayonet lines- 6 h3 seems to be the best section.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #30 - 12/19/08 at 19:04:40
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I should maybe say that each publisher is only allowed to put forward 2 books for BOTY!

I am in no way putting Markos down. I personally enjoyed the book quite a bit, but I am not going to hype our own books - unless provoked. I think our job is just to answer questions and learn from the many knowledgeable people in here.

Jacob Aagaard
Jacob@qualitychess.co.uk
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #29 - 12/17/08 at 21:29:53
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 12/15/08 at 15:59:21:
The main contributions to theory are in the 6.h3 chapter and the Korchnoi chapters as far as I can see.

I don't think the title is misleading. How often are people playing the Glek variation and how much do you need to know to play against it?

Clearly Avrukh has spent more energy on finding new ideas, but I personally find Markos coverage interesting. We are not putting it forward as book of the year, but we are not certainly embarrassed about it as well.



You should not be to hard on the author. For players <2000 ELO it should be a great book, because the explanations are very good and such players - like me - should be well prepared to play the special variation they choose.

This is especially true fpr the chapter about the Krasenkow - Variation, which was my reason to buy the book. Main problem for better players might be, that covering 3 systems in one book means not going deep.

If you wanted the author to go for the "book of the year" price" you should have made him work exclusively on the h3-variation!
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #28 - 12/16/08 at 19:10:58
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as it often analyses more than one variation in every system there may be more than 3 choices vs KID!
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #27 - 12/16/08 at 14:50:27
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I liked the book. He is analysing the critical lines, offers some suggestions and guides you quite good through the different variations. Also it is not a database dump with full of games from some obsure tournament but he just gives the important games and ideas, which you have to remember .
I compared it a little bit to Grivas book"Beating the fianchetto Variations".
There Grivas also analysed the Krasenkov line. But he is mainly giving Variations over Variations. MarKos suits me better, giving the main lines .
My only criticism is that the so called minor lines are covered only briefly. Especially the line with 7...Na6 in the classical Kings Indian is played very often also on international Level.
However I still like the book, and it gives you three choices against the KID.

QualityChess is currently publishing really good books,
I am impressed Mr. Aagard Cool
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #26 - 12/15/08 at 21:59:46
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Got the book, went thorugh a few chapters with silicon help.
In my view it's not going to be remembered in a 100 years but the book is absolutely ok. It explains quite well the current state of affairs in the considered variations explaining ideas quite clearly. It's not packed up of variations and novelties but it does cover most lines with sufficient detail as far as I can see. Only frequent line missing is 6...Nc6 against classical setup as far I as I can see but I guess I'll live without it Cheesy
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #25 - 12/15/08 at 15:59:21
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The main contributions to theory are in the 6.h3 chapter and the Korchnoi chapters as far as I can see.

I don't think the title is misleading. How often are people playing the Glek variation and how much do you need to know to play against it?

Clearly Avrukh has spent more energy on finding new ideas, but I personally find Markos coverage interesting. We are not putting it forward as book of the year, but we are not certainly embarrassed about it as well.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #24 - 12/13/08 at 10:25:50
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Fans of 'the Korchnoi variation' may appreciate this effort:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1522185

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #23 - 12/11/08 at 12:49:10
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Yesterday I got the book. I looked at it for about one hour, but frankly speaking I am not impressed. I looked especially over the bayonet attack part. I can not see anything new in the variation with 12.f3 - just a couple of well known and hardly commented games in other sources. When I have some spare time i will look over the other parts and will post my final opinion.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #22 - 12/09/08 at 11:57:37
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I have this books for some days and i have to do the following comment

1) The title is misleading. This books is about 3 KI variations but all the rest is covered in one chapter with no detail at all.

2) I have basically did get a look at the bayonett attack part.
Its not bad it not great. There is nothing new in there. If you know the variation, you will get nothing from the book. If you dont know it, you will get the basic idea.

The book is not big and could have been at least double the pages and content and could only cover the bayonett at that space.

I would rate this book 5/10 (you should take into account that i am always a little bit hard on my critics)
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #21 - 12/05/08 at 15:49:55
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Bibs wrote on 12/05/08 at 14:58:31:
Does the 'Korchnoi' section also include anti-Nbd7, Glek etc? I.e. repertoirish?


EDITED: Actually it is dealt with in a section on its own in the Epilogue and "Loose Ends" chapters.    Really just sub-one line/variation given for each of those (Glek, Power point, etc).  Maybe 4 pages on Be3 after Nbd7, 3 on Glek.  Enough to play the lines.

Bibs wrote on 12/05/08 at 14:58:31:
How does the h3-makagonov coverage compare with that in  the chessbase cd, Grivas anti-indian book?


It is complimentary.


I would not call this repertoire book for beginning KID ers.  It is very good at what it does/offers, but is not a primer for the White side.  

It is specifically the three variations listed, so if one is looking for good ideas in other variations and sub-lines of these three, this book may touch upon them, but does not move its focus too far afield from the three lines already indicated.


There is a good bit of original analysis, and we'll see how that holds up/fares, a lot of well written prose and solid explanations.

It is definitely "a book with an opinion."



Edited 2X:  Content.



« Last Edit: 12/05/08 at 16:53:17 by drkodos »  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #20 - 12/05/08 at 14:58:31
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Boki, all

Any views on this text?

Was expecting a few more pages considering the sizes of the systems. But if what is there is good, would be interested.

Couple of queries:

Does the 'Korchnoi' section also include anti-Nbd7, Glek etc? I.e. repertoirish?

How does the h3-makagonov coverage compare with that in  the chessbase cd, Grivas anti-indian book?

  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #19 - 11/27/08 at 12:31:05
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Oops...my bad again.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #18 - 11/27/08 at 04:22:34
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Markovich wrote on 11/26/08 at 18:05:14:
Antillian wrote on 11/19/08 at 12:26:18:
Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.


Niggerman now has both as available. I wonder why this site always seems to have more information about chess books than anywhere else, and more promptly than anywhere else - sometimes even more detail and more timely than even the publisher.  Undecided


With a name like that, I hope he steers clear of Alabama.


LOL!
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #17 - 11/26/08 at 20:24:07
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Markovich wrote on 11/26/08 at 18:05:14:
Antillian wrote on 11/19/08 at 12:26:18:
Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.


Niggerman now has both as available. I wonder why this site always seems to have more information about chess books than anywhere else, and more promptly than anywhere else - sometimes even more detail and more timely than even the publisher.  Undecided


With a name like that, I hope he steers clear of Alabama.


It's Niggemann. Without the r.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #16 - 11/26/08 at 18:37:48
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Malcolm Pein has just told me he's got both in stock at Chess and Bridge, Euston Road, London
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #15 - 11/26/08 at 18:05:14
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Antillian wrote on 11/19/08 at 12:26:18:
Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.


Niggerman now has both as available. I wonder why this site always seems to have more information about chess books than anywhere else, and more promptly than anywhere else - sometimes even more detail and more timely than even the publisher.  Undecided


With a name like that, I hope he steers clear of Alabama.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #14 - 11/22/08 at 18:05:13
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Hi
Got the book today. My first impression is very good. Not many variations, but explanations and interesting suggestions. will compare it to Khalifmans book and to Grivas book and then more
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #13 - 11/19/08 at 16:17:09
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The problem might be that you don't have the latest version of Java.

I had problems too, until i updated and now works fine.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #12 - 11/19/08 at 15:44:03
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Bibs wrote on 11/19/08 at 14:27:43:
By jove, some unhappy sorts do like to grumble. Curmudgeonly nitpickers of the world unite and take over.
Switch off the PC, leave your parents' house for a bit, get some sun. Look on the bright side.

All games live is some feat. Some blips bound to occur, but noticed none myself following all England and Japan games.

Well done I say - best coverage yet.

Look forward to the KID book.


I am afraid I have too much of a tan already. I am afraid of the sun.  Sad

Perhaps the problem is with my browser or my ISP then. I have had no success with the link so far.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #11 - 11/19/08 at 14:27:43
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Antillian wrote on 11/19/08 at 13:26:10:
Alias wrote on 11/19/08 at 13:15:37:
That's german efficiency for you.


I won't go too far with that one. The Dresden Olympiad website stinks  Grin


By jove, some unhappy sorts do like to grumble. Curmudgeonly nitpickers of the world unite and take over.
Switch off the PC, leave your parents' house for a bit, get some sun. Look on the bright side.

All games live is some feat. Some blips bound to occur, but noticed none myself following all England and Japan games.

Well done I say - best coverage yet.

Look forward to the KID book.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #10 - 11/19/08 at 13:26:10
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Alias wrote on 11/19/08 at 13:15:37:
That's german efficiency for you.


I won't go too far with that one. The Dresden Olympiad website stinks  Grin
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #9 - 11/19/08 at 13:15:37
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Antillian wrote on 11/19/08 at 12:26:18:
Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.


Niggerman now has both as available. I wonder why this site always seems to have more information about chess books than anywhere else, and more promptly than anywhere else - sometimes even more detail and more timely than even the publisher.  Undecided


That's german efficiency for you.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #8 - 11/19/08 at 12:26:18
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Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.


Niggerman now has both as available. I wonder why this site always seems to have more information about chess books than anywhere else, and more promptly than anywhere else - sometimes even more detail and more timely than even the publisher.  Undecided
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #7 - 11/19/08 at 11:08:33
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If I choose the KI I am really happy to see h3 played by White - it is clear, that there will be a fighting game ahead with all the counterchances the KI offers for Black. Furthermore Black is not forced to burn all the bridges as in the Classical Main Lines, where after closing the centre with f4 its do or die. From a psychological point of view I consider the g3-KI to be the most annoying - you dont get what you want as Black, but you have to concentrate on equalizing instead of counterplay.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #6 - 11/18/08 at 21:12:04
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Alias wrote on 11/18/08 at 09:32:33:
Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.

I've tried the h3-line in a CC game. I wouldn't call it easy to play. (Is the KID ever easy?) White can easily overextend.


I ecko your sentiments totally. I have been trying it out myself. And finding the right moves for White are quite counterintuitive. Grivas covered it in his book - Beating the Finachetto Defences - but his book did not do a lot to help my understanding.  Personally I think the Breutigam CD is the best source if you really want to understand the themes. I have not given up on this system yet  since I think if I can master it, i will have a very good weapon against the KID that many KIDers will not be properly prepared for.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #5 - 11/18/08 at 09:32:33
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Both the Markos and Avrukh books are announced for December 1 on the Niggemann site.

I've tried the h3-line in a CC game. I wouldn't call it easy to play. (Is the KID ever easy?) White can easily overextend.
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #4 - 11/18/08 at 09:14:09
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Jacob Aagaard wrote on 11/10/08 at 09:02:14:
Beat the KID by Jan Markos is out maybe already next week.

Golubev's repertoire book on the KID was great and only 2-3 years old?

We are planning a Nmzo/Aagaard101 GM repertoire book, but not in the near future. Other projects come first.



From the Grandmaster Repertoire 1.d4 - Volume 1 Thread.

This is not confirmed on the Quality Chess website, so it is not impossible that the date has been changed to early 2009.

Or alternatively, you could send Aagaard a PM to inquire about the intended publication date of the book.

Out of the three lines given, the 6.h3 Makogonov Variation looks like the easiest to play, the Bayonet with 9.b4 is probably the most promising and the 9.Ne1 Korchnoi Variation is the most difficult to play, requiring both excellent preparation and very accurate defence.

Aagaard, do you know whether Markos recommends 8.Be3 or 8.Re1 against the 7...Na6 variation? It was covered in Luis Comas Fabrego's book "True Lies in Chess" by Quality Chess, and when I browsed the chapter at a friend's place, he certainly gave a convincing case in favour of the variation. Although the coverage was predominantly the most popular 8.Be3 Ng4 9.Bg5 Qe8 10.de5 variation if I remember correctly).
  

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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #3 - 11/18/08 at 07:39:23
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TN wrote on 11/10/08 at 20:16:13:
I recently found out from the 'Grandmaster Repertoire - 1.d4' topic that the book "Beat the KID" by Markos will be released by Quality Chess in the next week or two

Where did you hear that it was the next week or two? I had a look around and all indications appear to be for a 2009 release.
  
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Re: "Beat the King's Indian" by Jan Markos
Reply #2 - 11/15/08 at 00:45:28
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I noticed that Jan Markos plays the King´s Indian too with Black.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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