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Normal Topic vs Ruy (Read 3660 times)
Ender
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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #8 - 11/22/08 at 19:31:29
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Matemax wrote on 11/22/08 at 19:14:45:
Ender wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:46:52:
Markovich wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:01:26:
The Schliemann is diabolical ,and there may be some hope for it, according to a recent NIC Yearbook, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+! Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6!? which, as I understand, has been played by Radjabov.  



This line is just better for white. After 9.Qxe5 c5 ?! (recommended by Davis in his ful-of-errors book 'Gambiteer 2') White can grab a pawn by Qxc7 and black have little or np compensation.  9. Qf7 is not better and white have advantage there. Schliemann is a crap.

10.Qxc7 Bd6 11.Qa5 Qe6+ 12.Kd1 O-O is nearly forced - Black is 2 pawns down but controls the whole board - hmm, which line did you have in mind  Undecided?



I need to make a topic on schliemann. Maybe in next 5-6 days. stay tuned!
  

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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #7 - 11/22/08 at 19:14:45
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Ender wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:46:52:
Markovich wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:01:26:
The Schliemann is diabolical ,and there may be some hope for it, according to a recent NIC Yearbook, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+! Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6!? which, as I understand, has been played by Radjabov.  



This line is just better for white. After 9.Qxe5 c5 ?! (recommended by Davis in his ful-of-errors book 'Gambiteer 2') White can grab a pawn by Qxc7 and black have little or np compensation.  9. Qf7 is not better and white have advantage there. Schliemann is a crap.

10.Qxc7 Bd6 11.Qa5 Qe6+ 12.Kd1 O-O is nearly forced - Black is 2 pawns down but controls the whole board - hmm, which line did you have in mind  Undecided?
  
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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #6 - 11/19/08 at 15:18:13
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Ender wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:46:52:
Schliemann is a crap.


I am inclined to that view myself, but I haven't read the survey in my NIC Yearbook.  Is Radjabov still playing it?
  

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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #5 - 11/19/08 at 13:22:46
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Thanks for the news about this new book Antillian!  Smiley
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #4 - 11/19/08 at 12:42:26
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Zatara wrote on 11/18/08 at 21:26:10:
Hi all,
What Ruy do people recommend for an attacking player?  What do people think of the Archangel, Scheleman, the open and the Zaitsev?  Or do people have another recommendation?  I hear the marshall is "drawish"  and has gobs of theory!!
Thanks,
Zatara


This upcoming Quality Chess book might interest you:

http://www.amazon.com/Attacking-Spanish-Marshall-Schliemann-Gajewski/dp/19065521...
  

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Ender
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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #3 - 11/18/08 at 22:46:52
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Markovich wrote on 11/18/08 at 22:01:26:
The Schliemann is diabolical ,and there may be some hope for it, according to a recent NIC Yearbook, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+! Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6!? which, as I understand, has been played by Radjabov.  



This line is just better for white. After 9.Qxe5 c5 ?! (recommended by Davis in his ful-of-errors book 'Gambiteer 2') White can grab a pawn by Qxc7 and black have little or np compensation.  9. Qf7 is not better and white have advantage there. Schliemann is a crap.
  

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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #2 - 11/18/08 at 22:01:26
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Ender wrote on 11/18/08 at 21:42:33:
Zatara wrote on 11/18/08 at 21:26:10:
Hi all,
What Ruy do people recommend for an attacking player?  What do people think of the Archangel, Scheleman, the open and the Zaitsev?  Or do people have another recommendation?  I hear the marshall is "drawish"  and has gobs of theory!!
Thanks,
Zatara


Schliemann is in trouble i think in line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 ?! 4.Nc3 fxe4 4. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4  7. Nxc6 Qg5  8. Qe2 Nf6 9. f4! Qxf4  10. Nxa7+! Bd7 11. Bxd7+  Kxd7 12. Qb5+ Ke6 13. Qb3+ !? (Qxb7!?)
I analyzed this line and my conclussion is that black don't have compensation for material. There is also boring 4.d3 line when white can torture you without risk....


The Schliemann is diabolical ,and there may be some hope for it, according to a recent NIC Yearbook, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+! Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6!? which, as I understand, has been played by Radjabov.  The older 8...dxc6 meets 9.Nxe5 Bf5 10.O-O! as explained elsewhere in this forum and in the pdf file as well now.

However I would not call the Schliemann an attacking system so much as a space-grabbing one.  In some lines you wind up attacking, in others, being attacked.

The Marshall is fine if you can get it, but so often you don't.

I would not call the Open an attacking system, either.  Active and flexible yes, but not always leading to an attack and fairly often to being attacked.  The Dilworth "Attack" is not an attack, but a method of converting to a certain kind of ending, and you can't force a Dilworth anyway. A key strategic aim in the Open is to get the c-pawn to c5; that's active, but definitely not "attacking."

The Zaitsev is also not "attacking."

If I had to play gambit style chess, I think I would play the Marshall and hope to get it, and find some sharp lines against the anti-Marshalls.
  

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Ender
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Re: vs Ruy
Reply #1 - 11/18/08 at 21:42:33
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Zatara wrote on 11/18/08 at 21:26:10:
Hi all,
What Ruy do people recommend for an attacking player?  What do people think of the Archangel, Scheleman, the open and the Zaitsev?  Or do people have another recommendation?  I hear the marshall is "drawish"  and has gobs of theory!!
Thanks,
Zatara


Schliemann is in trouble i think in line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 ?! 4.Nc3 fxe4 4. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4  7. Nxc6 Qg5  8. Qe2 Nf6 9. f4! Qxf4  10. Nxa7+! Bd7 11. Bxd7+  Kxd7 12. Qb5+ Ke6 13. Qb3+ !? (Qxb7!?)
I analyzed this line and my conclussion is that black don't have compensation for material. There is also boring 4.d3 line when white can torture you without risk....
  

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Zatara
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vs Ruy
11/18/08 at 21:26:10
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Hi all,
What Ruy do people recommend for an attacking player?  What do people think of the Archangel, Scheleman, the open and the Zaitsev?  Or do people have another recommendation?  I hear the marshall is "drawish"  and has gobs of theory!!
Thanks,
Zatara
  
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