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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now? (Read 4397 times)
jaki
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #10 - 12/13/08 at 00:09:23
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kylemeister wrote on 12/12/08 at 23:28:22:
jaki wrote on 12/12/08 at 22:38:50:
I have another move order issue with the Scheveningen: After
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.f4 Nc6 and then 9.Be3 I like to play 9... e5.
But how to react after 9.Nb3? If I answer 9... e5 white can play 10.f5 but if I answer 9... d5 white can play 10.e5.

Do I need to play a line with neither e5 nor d5 then?


Such early Nb3s, not in response to ...Bd7 (or ...e5), are generally doubtful.  In this particular position, 9...b5 seems right (a motif which is perhaps better known from the Dragon); for example a Russian encyclopedia gives 10. Bf3 Bb7 as slightly better for Black.


Thanks for the thoughts and the nice active idea playing 9...b5.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #9 - 12/12/08 at 23:28:22
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jaki wrote on 12/12/08 at 22:38:50:
I have another move order issue with the Scheveningen: After
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.f4 Nc6 and then 9.Be3 I like to play 9... e5.
But how to react after 9.Nb3? If I answer 9... e5 white can play 10.f5 but if I answer 9... d5 white can play 10.e5.

Do I need to play a line with neither e5 nor d5 then?


Such early Nb3s, not in response to ...Bd7 (or ...e5), are generally doubtful.  In this particular position, 9...b5 seems right (a motif which is perhaps better known from the Dragon); for example a Russian encyclopedia gives 10. Bf3 Bb7 as slightly better for Black.
  
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jaki
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #8 - 12/12/08 at 22:38:50
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I have another move order issue with the Scheveningen: After
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8.f4 Nc6 and then 9.Be3 I like to play 9... e5.
But how to react after 9.Nb3? If I answer 9... e5 white can play 10.f5 but if I answer 9... d5 white can play 10.e5.

Do I need to play a line with neither e5 nor d5 then?
  
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MartinC
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #7 - 11/21/08 at 10:44:50
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e6,Nc6 then d6 before Nf6 is just another move order to reach main line Scheveningen positions.

Arguably slightly better than Nf6 first on a theoretical basis - it turns the Keres into the slightly easier pseudo keres. It does commit you to defending a main classical Sozin though - not a joke even if theoretically all right.

Really though if you're going to play this way some of the time then it makes sense to play like it all the time.

So 3 .. d6 makes more sense from a practical point of view unless somehow wishing to avoid 4 Bb5+. Also 4 g3 to consider here though.

There is always 2 .. d6 & 3 .. Nf6 of course - it's the main move order this I believe? Even 2 .. Nf6 ^ 3 Nc3 d6 is perhaps worth a thought against Bb5+ addicts.
  
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Schaakhamster
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #6 - 11/21/08 at 08:54:22
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/21/08 at 07:22:37:
kylemeister wrote on 11/21/08 at 04:49:14:
But of course that move order would prevent Black from reaching certain Scheveningen lines, such as Pritchett's main suggestion against the Keres (6...h6 7. h4 Be7 8. Rg1 d5).  And Black, even if he initially wanted to avoid Bb5 and/or Qxd4 lines, may not mind allowing them under the changed circumstances (with Nc3 in).


Yes.  You are right that these considerations need to be taken into account.      


the possibilities for transposition are quite mindboggling.  Grin
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #5 - 11/21/08 at 07:22:37
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kylemeister wrote on 11/21/08 at 04:49:14:
But of course that move order would prevent Black from reaching certain Scheveningen lines, such as Pritchett's main suggestion against the Keres (6...h6 7. h4 Be7 8. Rg1 d5).  And Black, even if he initially wanted to avoid Bb5 and/or Qxd4 lines, may not mind allowing them under the changed circumstances (with Nc3 in).


Yes.  You are right that these considerations need to be taken into account.      
  
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kylemeister
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #4 - 11/21/08 at 04:49:14
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But of course that move order would prevent Black from reaching certain Scheveningen lines, such as Pritchett's main suggestion against the Keres (6...h6 7. h4 Be7 8. Rg1 d5).  And Black, even if he initially wanted to avoid Bb5 and/or Qxd4 lines, may not mind allowing them under the changed circumstances (with Nc3 in).
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #3 - 11/21/08 at 04:01:49
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MNb is right.  3..Nc6 and 5..d6 is the way to do it.

3..d6 is not as good if the reason you're playing 2..e6 is to avoid the Bb5 and/or Qxd4 lines. 

  
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MNb
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #2 - 11/20/08 at 23:29:49
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Schaakhamster wrote on 11/20/08 at 13:26:07:
I'm not sure if this should be in this section but here it goes:

I'm studying Prichett scheveningen book and I quite like it but above line gives me headaches. Nc6 and a6 are the the 2 most popular replies but after 4 d4 this would mean that scheveningen without a6 as Prichett recommends wouldn't be possible.  


Why is after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d6 the Scheveningen without ...a6 impossible?
  

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kylemeister
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Re: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
Reply #1 - 11/20/08 at 15:27:20
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Certainly 3...d6 is a good move.
  
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Schaakhamster
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1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc6 and what now?
11/20/08 at 13:26:07
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I'm not sure if this should be in this section but here it goes:

I'm studying Prichett scheveningen book and I quite like it but above line gives me headaches. Nc6 and a6 are the the 2 most popular replies but after 4 d4 this would mean that scheveningen without a6 as Prichett recommends wouldn't be possible. 

So i wondered if 3. ... d6 any good?

Any feedback would be helpfull

  
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