Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Best bet to meet Najdorf (Read 7630 times)
Chessmoby
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #14 - 12/04/08 at 23:31:07
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cheers guys these responses have been great - chk your advice has been most enlightening. 
i have decided to stick with Bg5 f4 since i tried some other systems and black players seem to have a much easier time of it (by this i mean they tend not to worry quite so much as when they face Bg5) most of the responses i have got have been the main lines, very few PPs which i was quite surprised by. i spent the time going through lots of horribly complex PP games and i like the e5 lines. funnily enough most of the PP players ive come across really dont seem to know there stuff in these lines, i had at least a couple of terrible blunders as early as move 17!

im still sticking with Be2 against the schevy because it is a game i feel that i understand reasonably well and again because many black players often misunderstand positional plans and after a long maneouvering game lash out inappropriately with a dubious d5 thinking that it will free their position whilst end up cedeing control of d5 completely.
  
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MNb
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #13 - 12/04/08 at 20:39:16
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chk wrote on 12/04/08 at 10:06:20:

e) imo theory is not that huge after 6. Be2.

I have been delving a bit into 6.Be2 e6 last years and I found the amount of theory quite intimidating.

The rest and especially the conclusion I agree with.
  

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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #12 - 12/04/08 at 15:42:14
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Anti- - Najdorf without too much theory- not easy task.

Perhaps go 6 Qf3 to be very independent.

6 be2 following Nigel Short's games isn't a bad idea or 6 g3 (Alekeseev) - both systems require the same approach against the Schevengingen.

Warning - in the najdorf avoiding the critical lines may lead to a relatively easy game for Black.

Other approach is to use 2 Nc3 and go for the grand prix attack if 2..d6

  
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chk
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #11 - 12/04/08 at 10:06:20
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Re the ultimate advice we want to give to the original poster I disagree with you both, but since most of the things you say are correct let me explain myself with some concrete observations from my experience:

a) It seemed to me that the original poster wanted to avoid lots of theory & maintenance for reasons not given to us (e.g. lack of time to study? other heavily theoretical lines already in the repertoire? etc.). Otherwise, Lou_Cyber has a point indeed. So, Chessmoby please enlighten us on how strict you are on that.

b) From a Black's player point of view, 6. Bg5 is the most dangerous line to face (followed by either 6. Bc4 or 6. Be3 & f3). But White has to do most of the preparation (not Black!) as he has to face many heavily theoretical lines (PP, Classical, R.Rauzer-style, Polu, quick Nbd7) that also lead to positions that are difficult to assess as a human (hint: you'll frequently need to perform some computer analysis). All Black has to do is to book up in one particular response and he/she's almost certain to get it game after game. E.g. I use a decent sideline in the Classical variation (6. Bg5 e6) and my opponents often spend 30' on the clock just to play their first 5 moves after we enter this sideline.

c) Following a comment by Lou_Cyber that the player with the Black pieces apart from the theory to cope has to defend as well: Maybe true for the PP, but e.g. in the Classical lines against 6. Bg5, Black usually counterattacks (a la Dragon).

d) 6. Bg5 e6 could easily become an e5-type of position later on in the game, so a good positional feeling for these positions is still essential.

e) imo theory is not that huge after 6. Be2. You can play it for many years just knowing a couple of the main lines and all the thematic plans. It is mainly a positional struggle. On the contrary 6. Bg5 positions can become very counter-intuitive and you'll need to do some memorisation from day one. So I see a big difference here; but it's ultimately a decision based on taste or style.

f) And a last note: whatever you decide I recommend you follow the same plan against the Classical Sicilian (Nc6) due to the high possibility of transpositions (e.g. Be2 against both or Bc4 against both or Bg5 against both etc.).

chk  Cool
  

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MNb
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #10 - 12/04/08 at 00:45:44
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Chessmoby wrote on 11/26/08 at 19:43:04:
what would be a good line to meet the Najdorf with. I have been playing Bg5 f4, but the level of theory is extreme and sometimes plans are unclear and it is often difficult to asses positions.


Lou Cyber has a good point. This quote even applies to 6.Be2 e6. One of the reasons the Najdorf is so popular is exactly this unclarity en this difficulty to assess positions - Black plays the Najdorf because (s)he wants to win!

It's possible to cut down on theory without making too much concessions both with 6.Be2 and 6.Be3 (also with 6.g3, but this might not fit in the rest of your Open Sicilian repertoire), but theory remains huge.
  

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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #9 - 12/03/08 at 17:30:12
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I´ve tried almost every 6. move against the Najdorf in the past few years apart from Be3, as I was too afraid of the assessment of the lines. Imo black was very solid against most of these lines, and the surprise value of 6.Rg1 was only good for a few months, then I got problems.

One year ago I burnt some midnight oil, switched to 6.Bg5 7.f4 and am still happy with it. Why not keep your repertoire and beef up lines that give you trouble?

6.Bg5 has always been one of the main lines against the Najdorf, and not without reason. White has good attacking ideas in most lines. The major snag was the PP variation, as it seemed to lead to a forced draw, but there is trouble in paradise for the PP players since these e5-variations appeared.

It is true, it is a lot of work to maintain the repertoire - but be sure the bloke on the other side of the board has MUCH more theoretical work, and he has to defend. Standard theoretical advice is "Stick to the main lines and follow the masters" - you´re already there, so why move away?
  

If you try, you may lose. If you don´t try, you have lost.
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chk
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #8 - 12/03/08 at 16:14:07
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Remember San Luis 2005? imo 6. ... Ng4 is sth to reckon with no matter how the theory has developed.

I would stick to 6. Be2; against 6. ... e5 it still gives you many options as White as it can be combined with Bg5, Be3 & O-O, Be3 & quick f4 (with the idea of O-O-O), Kh1 & f2-f4, a2-a4-a5, early Nd5, plus some other thematic plans.
  

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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #7 - 12/03/08 at 13:23:38
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If you really want to play THE best move, then you probably should play 6.Be3. Against 6...e6 I would recommend 7.g4, which is at least very dangerous for black. Of course this could transpose to the Keres attack, too, which is supposed to be the best against the scheveninger system. After 6...e5 7.Nb3 there is a lot of theory but black's life is not easy here. Just study theory and win Smiley Smiley
6...Ng4 is risky, you shouldnt fear this move. I remember Kasparov said he could beat everybody after Ng4 in no more then 20 moves Smiley
  
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #6 - 11/28/08 at 13:21:25
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Well you can of course also get into the classical Schevy via 6 Be3 e6 7 Be2. 

If you do allow 6 Be2 e5 just make sure you know what you're doing - I've seen a fair number of players getting rolled up very easily playing slightly aimlessly on the white side of this.

I suppose that it's not objectively all that dangerous but it's not like anything is really.
  
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #5 - 11/28/08 at 13:00:12
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if you play 6.Be2 against the najdorf, you must pay special attention to squares d5/e4 and associated ...Rxc3 ideas, White often has to defend against this threat. On the other hand, once you get used to it, you will have an old-fashioned *real chess* game where computer analysis little matters. If you are after this kind of game it's a perfect opening choice, but think twice about playing like this against much stronger players, since they may easily outplay you in this kind of position without risking a preparation.
  
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #4 - 11/28/08 at 12:08:35
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I would stick with Be2 since you play that against the Schevy as well, so the e6-lines are the same. If black goes e5 (and most Najdorfers will, since it is recommended in most books and it the "real" Najdorf move) then the lines are not overtly threatening to black, but he must tread carefully. You could take a look at lines with Bg5 or Kh1, they have quite a (hidden) bite.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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chk
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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #3 - 11/27/08 at 09:07:03
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I would rather pick a move that is consistent with the rest of your repertoire (I suggest 6. Be2 followed by 7. Be3 with a classical approach a la Karpov in your case). In this way you can also easily deal with the various transpositions and cut down on the amount of theory as you say that you essentially mostly need to invest time learning sth against 6. ... e5.

6. Rg1 is certainly interesting however, it leads to a position that has a unique flavour (imo best plan for Black is to transfer all his pieces to the Q-side).

Moreover, imo 6. Be3 Ng5 leads to a position with chances for both sides, but again it is not your usual Sicilian.

6. ... e5 is equally good as 6. ... e6, it just don't provide the Black player with the same variety of positions. I myself play 6. ... e5 against 6. Be2 and do respect White's choice. The only problem I see with 6. Be2 is that it many times leaves both sides without a clear plan - and this was the reason I don't use it for the moment as part of my White repertoire. But if positional chess is your cup of tea imo it is the best choice.
  

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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #2 - 11/27/08 at 01:05:00
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Chessmoby wrote on 11/26/08 at 19:43:04:

Im thinking about Be2, ...e6 is fine since i play the classical against Schevy.

I might play Be3 e6 g4!? but i know virtually nothing about either ...Ng4  and not enough about ....e5 so im not really appetised.

so is the Be2 e5 line threatening at all?



If you like the white side of 6.Be2 e5 this is the logical choice of course. Note that Kasparov against Karpov only played 6...e6.
If you don't, still 6.Be3 might be your best bet, answering e6 with 7.Be2. 6.Be3 Ng4 7.Bg5 is considered somewhat better for White these days. At the other hand 6.a4 Nc6 idea 7...e5 looks good for Black.
So imo your choice is between 6.Be2 e5 and 6.Be3 e5.
  

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Re: Best bet to meet Najdorf
Reply #1 - 11/26/08 at 20:25:58
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Bad news: The Najdorf requires a lot of work (with each colour). 6.Be3. Bc4 and 6.Bg5 are certainly the most promising lines, but also the ones with most theory. Playing 6.Be2 is more positional but I think nowadays most Najdorf players are happy to face this move - you could try a repertoire in these lines based on a lot of Karpov games. 

I would say the strange 6.Rg1 (!) or 6.a4 followed by Bc4 and Ba2 is worth a try if you go for a surprice shot and dont want to invest too much time - but against strong opposition these moves certainly mean an instantly =.
  
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Chessmoby
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Best bet to meet Najdorf
11/26/08 at 19:43:04
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what would be a good line to meet the Najdorf with. I have been playing Bg5 f4, but the level of theory is extreme and sometimes plans are unclear and it is often difficult to asses positions.

Im thinking about Be2, ...e6 is fine since i play the classical against Schevy.

I might play Be3 e6 g4!? but i know virtually nothing about either ...Ng4  and not enough about ....e5 so im not really appetised.

so is the Be2 e5 line threatening at all?

also is the fischer attack worth giving a shot??
  
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