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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer (Read 10820 times)
Keano
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #11 - 03/04/14 at 22:24:02
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I don't like playing that line either  Cry

I know its good obviously but prefer to avoid it.

Probably have played similar lines the odd time though. Actually now I think of it I lost to a young English IM a long time back in that advance line, so probably created my psychological aversion there and then.

I think I grabbed an extra pawn on b2 too, but didn't help me in the end.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #10 - 03/04/14 at 22:17:12
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Keano wrote on 03/04/14 at 19:55:45:
The only thing that would worry me are the Bxh6 lines, perhaps for psychological reasons - the sight of those doubled h-pawns.

That shouldn't bother most French players. One of the key lines of the Advance Variation is predicated on Bxh6 gxh6 being good for Black.

Here are two games that follow the basic idea. White often abstains from taking on h6 because Black's counterplay is just too strong.



And here's how a  +2700 handled Nh6 (Notice that Kamsky wasn't quite as strong in 1989. Kamsky took a lot of grief for not knowing when to resign when he was younger.)




  
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Keano
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #9 - 03/04/14 at 19:55:45
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The only thing that would worry me are the Bxh6 lines, perhaps for psychological reasons - the sight of those doubled h-pawns.
  
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #8 - 03/04/14 at 06:43:46
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Berg likes this ...Nh6 line.

Also, Vitiugov's coverage seems very strong to me.
  
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erasmus_b_dragon
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #7 - 03/03/14 at 21:31:50
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Keano wrote on 03/03/14 at 21:10:31:
Its a decent line for White the 5.Bd2, I have friends who have used it to good effect at a very high level..


Agree.

Quote:
The Watson review of the Dzindzi book was a butcher job


I don't know, have not read the dzinzi book.

Quote:
Interestingly Berg goes for the ...Nh6 move. I was always wary of this but now that its been given the Berg stamp of approval I'll give it a new look.


I don't think Watson has anything against 6...Nh6, but in PTF4 he wasn't sure it was worth it learning all the theory. It was also covered in PTF3, but I don't have that book.
  

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Keano
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Re: C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #6 - 03/03/14 at 21:10:31
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Its a decent line for White the 5.Bd2, I have friends who have used it to good effect at a very high level.

The Watson review of the Dzindzi book was a butcher job, we have covered all this before if you do a search.

Interestingly Berg goes for the ...Nh6 move. I was always wary of this but now that its been given the Berg stamp of approval I'll give it a new look.
  
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erasmus_b_dragon
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Re: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #5 - 03/03/14 at 19:07:02
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dom wrote on 11/30/08 at 10:48:24:
John Watson made a harsh critic about the analysis of GMs Alburt,Dzin et IM Perelshtein of 5...Nh6 move in the Bogoljubow line (5.Bd2)

Read here: http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwatsonbkrev77.html




That link does not work for me, but this one does. Several reviews on this page, you have to scroll down to Chess Openings for White, Explained

http://www.theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/good...good...good...disastrou...

« Last Edit: 03/03/14 at 21:13:36 by erasmus_b_dragon »  

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akita
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Re: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #4 - 11/30/08 at 11:10:51
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Hi All

Yes one of the key games that Perelsthyn omits from the book is his key game wth Ramirez in the Nh6 line.

I desperately wanted Bd2 to work and sadly I drew the same conclusions as IM John Watson did in his review of the book.

Regards

Akita

PS The book Chess Explained is actually quite good in places and in my opinion is fine for players upto say elo 2000.However, beyond that the holes in it begin to appear and cannot be repaired very easily.
  
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dom
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Re: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #3 - 11/30/08 at 10:48:24
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John Watson made a harsh critic about the analysis of GMs Alburt,Dzin et IM Perelshtein of 5...Nh6 move in the Bogoljubow line (5.Bd2)

Read here: http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwatsonbkrev77.html

Cannot judge myself because I play 4...Ne7 and after 5.Bd2, 5...b6!?
  

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Re: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #2 - 11/30/08 at 00:16:54
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Key point I remember is that dzinzi et al conflate Ne7 with Nh6. not noticing(?) that h6 can go to g4 in a certain line.
Details - in Watson and the review iirc.

What they actually do cover in this line is good, some very good.
But as Watson alleges (I suspect, correctly), what is left out appears to be as much sins of commission as omission - deliberately left out to make the repertoire look better. In other words, intellectual dishonesty.

Enough raking over the coals, please post your analysis and we will try to help you work through.
  
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Re: 5.Bd2 Winawer
Reply #1 - 11/29/08 at 23:36:35
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I'd certainly be interested in seeing any improvements you have over Play the French or Watson's lengthy and critical review of the book.
  
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C17: 5.Bd2 Winawer
11/29/08 at 22:00:42
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What do people think about 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.Bd2 (with a separate question mark!)? I have Dzinzi's lines from Chess Openings for White Explained, and after theoretical wars with my local French fanatic, he has almost given up with the French against me, as I have found ways to get an edge in almost all lines against Watson's Play the French (it isn't the exact title, but it is something like that). The book appears to have underrated it, as I have scored nice wins against my French playing friend. What do other people think of this line? I think it can be a very dangerous weapon against even booked up opponents, as sticking a knight on d6 and trading off dark squared bishops can be very unpleasant for a lot of French players at glance from White's side.
« Last Edit: 07/27/11 at 17:19:05 by dom »  
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