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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) some QGA analysis (Read 17060 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #22 - 05/30/09 at 00:02:30
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This is an extremely interesting thread, and I am looking forward to sinking my teeth into the analysis soon.  I hope that others join in with comments from authors in addition to Avrukh and of course Markovich.

Thanks, Markovich, for bringing this to our attention! Cool
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #21 - 05/29/09 at 01:11:41
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Papageno wrote on 05/27/09 at 15:56:00:
16... Bd5 wants to simplify, of course. But my first impression is that White can allow this simplification and still keep up the speed with 17. Bxd5 Qxd5 18. f5! 
*Accepting this pawn sac 18...  exf5 19. Rae1 looks dangerous, e.g. 19... Nc6 20. Bf6 g6 21. Qh6 Rf8 22. Qxh7 


I first thought that Black could get away with 22...Kd7 (Run away, run away!) 23.e6+ Kc7.  If 24.e7 Rfe8 Black intends ...Kb7, ...Rc8, ...Rc7.  f7 seems secure enough, and Black's king looks safe on b7.  Black plays similarly if White doesn't advance to e7. 

But 23...Kc7 24.Bg7! Rfe8 25.Bh6! (25.Bf6 Rf8 proposes a draw) 25...Kb6 26.Qxf7 with the threat of 27.a5+ looks good for White.

23....Kd6 (instead of 23...Kc7) 24.Rd1 Kc7 25.Rfe1 Rac8 (25...Rae8? 26.e7 Rg8 27.Bxd4) burns a tempo but perhaps offers Black some hope.  E.g. 26.e7 Rfe8 27.Bxd4 Nxd4 28.Qh4 Kb7 29.Rxd4 Qc5. 

Instead of 22...Kd7, 22...d3 23.Rd1 doesn't look good either.  Nor do I have a great deal of faith in the defense after 22...Qe6 23.Rc1 Kd7 24.Qh4.

Plenty of silicon assistance here, in case I need to say it.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #20 - 05/27/09 at 18:49:31
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Papageno wrote on 05/27/09 at 15:56:00:

If good preparation is needed in the QGA, isn't this just a different wording for "the path to equality is narrow" Smiley


If indeed it exists at all.  But I am sure Ruslan meant this remark to apply to both players.

But thanks, I'll look at this and come back if I can add anything.  I had already considered Bxd5, but not very deeply.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #19 - 05/27/09 at 15:56:00
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16... Bd5 wants to simplify, of course. But my first impression is that White can allow this simplification and still keep up the speed with 17. Bxd5 Qxd5 18. f5! 
*Accepting this pawn sac 18...  exf5 19. Rae1 looks dangerous, e.g. 19... Nc6 20. Bf6 g6 21. Qh6 Rf8 22. Qxh7 
*But after 18...  Nc6 19. Rae1 white is attacking as well, say 19... Ra7 20. fxe6 O-O 21. Rf3 Qxe6 22. Bf6 Ne7 23. Ref1 Re8 24. Rh3 nice initiative, isn't it?

If good preparation is needed in the QGA, isn't this just a different wording for "the path to equality is narrow" Smiley
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #18 - 05/27/09 at 14:11:07
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I was looking again at this last night, and I came to the conclusion that after 9.e4 Bb7 10.e4 Ne4 11.Nbd2 Nxd2 12.Bxd2 cxd4 13.Ng5, Black should play 13...Be7 14.Qh5 Bxg5 14.Bxg5 Qd7 15.f4! (so far Avrukh), and now 15...Bd5! to attempt to simplify and also to help defend e6 and f7 (not 15...0-0? 16.f5! which is Avrukh's big bombshell).  For example 16.Bc2 b3 and now 17.Bd3 Nc6 intending ...Nb4 or 17.Bb1 Nc6 with the intention of meeting 18.f5 with 18...d3!. If White then carries through with 19.fxe6, Black plays 19...Bxe6 and is well set up to castle.  If instead 19.Bxd3 then 19...Nxe5.

In any case, the position after 15...Bd5 seems to me to be important for the QGA.

Ruslan says in the QGA pdf file here that good preparation is important in the QGA.  These 7.Bb3 lines would seem to illustrate that quite amply.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #17 - 05/03/09 at 23:41:12
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MarinFan wrote on 03/09/09 at 12:40:32:
Was thinking that black had a much more comfortable position after 9e4 Bb7 compared to 9e4 pxp. In fact though Avrukh has improved considerably on known theory of 9.e4 Bb7 10e5 Ne4, so both lines look quite tricky for black now.
                        Think Markovich has done a good job digging up more resources for black in the 9e4 pxp line, but still feels like black is walking a tight-rope though.


Exactly.  After 9.e4 Bb7 10.e5 Ne4 11.Nbd2 Nxd2 12.Bxd2 cxd4, Avrukh's 13.Ng5!, with the idea of f2-f4-f5 or a sac on e6 or f7 if provoked, is very strong.  Frankly, on my present understanding, I don't like Black's chances after 8...b4.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has anything for Black.

Looking at 13.Ng5, I think that 13...h6, which is not analyzed by Avrukh, should be considered carefully.  It's very scary for Black, however, after 14.Nxe6 fxe6 15.Qg4 or 15.Bxe6.  
« Last Edit: 05/05/09 at 02:19:57 by Markovich »  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #16 - 04/19/09 at 16:13:49
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MarinFan wrote on 04/04/09 at 13:37:37:
See Avrukh's  recent small update too  Shocked

I finally got around to looking at this, which is on Quality's website.  I have to admit, it's rather convincing.  I looked for improvements that would support Black's game after 15...h6 but I couldn't find any.

It looks like Black may have to fall back on 9...Bb7, as recommended by MarinFan, or perhaps 8...Bb7.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #15 - 04/04/09 at 13:37:37
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See Avrukh's  recent small update too  Shocked
  
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Markovich
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #14 - 03/09/09 at 20:15:48
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MarinFan wrote on 03/09/09 at 12:40:32:
Was thinking that black had a much more comfortable position after 9e4 Bb7 compared to 9e4 pxp. In fact though Avrukh has improved considerably on known theory of 9.e4 Bb7 10e5 Ne4, so both lines look quite tricky for black now.
                        Think Markovich has done a good job digging up more resources for black in the 9e4 pxp line, but still feels like black is walking a tight-rope though.


Thanks, I'll look into this.  Always nice to have a spare bowstring.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #13 - 03/09/09 at 12:40:32
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Was thinking that black had a much more comfortable position after 9e4 Bb7 compared to 9e4 pxp. In fact though Avrukh has improved considerably on known theory of 9.e4 Bb7 10e5 Ne4, so both lines look quite tricky for black now.
                        Think Markovich has done a good job digging up more resources for black in the 9e4 pxp line, but still feels like black is walking a tight-rope though.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #12 - 03/08/09 at 19:52:14
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Markovich wrote on 03/08/09 at 19:13:15:
Gambit wrote on 03/02/09 at 05:00:21:
Markovich wrote on 02/27/09 at 00:05:48:
I wanted to come back to this thread and consider 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bb3 b5 8.a4 b5 9.Nbd2 Bb7 10.e4 cxd4 11.e5 Nfd7 12.Nc4 Nc6 13.Bg5 Qc7 14.Rc1 Nc5 15.Ba2 h6 16.Bf4 g5 17.Nd6+ Bxd6 18.exd6 Qb6 19.Bg3 Ne4 20.Nd2.

Here I think Rizzitano has the relative merit of Black's, rejoinders, 20...Nxd2"!" and 20...Nxg3, mixed up.

20...Nxd2 21.Qd2 b3 22.Bb1 f5 and now instead of Rizzitano's 22.Qe2, 22.Rfe1 appears to secure a very good game.

20...Nxg3 21.Nc4 Qc5! 22.fxg3 and now I think 22...0-0! is good for Black.  For instance 23.Qh5 d3+ 24.Kh1 Ne5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5 26.Qxh6 Be4= though the position is complicated.


Just a question: If you are playing in an OTB  tournament, are you going to memorize the entire 20-odd moves of this line??


What is the point of this remark on this particular thread, Lev?  You'll find a lot of deep analysis on this website, not only here.

But yes, when I have played OTB, I've always tried to be very well prepared.  I wouldn't say anyone should memorize, but I would say he should know his stuff well enough to remember it.  I certainly don't consider the 20th move to be some sort of barrier beyond which this doesn't apply.


Indeed I seem to recall knowing some lines to move 20+ by the time I was about a class below where Lev is now.  One might have thought that Lev would have similar knowledge of some lines of the BDG or whatnot.   
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #11 - 03/08/09 at 19:15:28
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MarinFan wrote on 03/08/09 at 11:55:40:
Hello,

Both Watson, and Rizzitano give the impression that by 
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bb3 b5 8.a4 b5 9.e4 move order, white can trick black into playing 9...pxp line. 
However, black can play 9...Bb7 10Nb-d2 Be7, since after 10e5 Ne4 black is ok. 
         Semko in latest version thinks 9...Bb7 delaying capture on d4, and giving priority to development is black's most reliable line.

Bye John S


Well that's nice to know, but it doesn't actually address the points raised here, does it?
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #10 - 03/08/09 at 19:13:15
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Gambit wrote on 03/02/09 at 05:00:21:
Markovich wrote on 02/27/09 at 00:05:48:
I wanted to come back to this thread and consider 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bb3 b5 8.a4 b5 9.Nbd2 Bb7 10.e4 cxd4 11.e5 Nfd7 12.Nc4 Nc6 13.Bg5 Qc7 14.Rc1 Nc5 15.Ba2 h6 16.Bf4 g5 17.Nd6+ Bxd6 18.exd6 Qb6 19.Bg3 Ne4 20.Nd2.

Here I think Rizzitano has the relative merit of Black's, rejoinders, 20...Nxd2"!" and 20...Nxg3, mixed up.

20...Nxd2 21.Qd2 b3 22.Bb1 f5 and now instead of Rizzitano's 22.Qe2, 22.Rfe1 appears to secure a very good game.

20...Nxg3 21.Nc4 Qc5! 22.fxg3 and now I think 22...0-0! is good for Black.  For instance 23.Qh5 d3+ 24.Kh1 Ne5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5 26.Qxh6 Be4= though the position is complicated.


Just a question: If you are playing in an OTB  tournament, are you going to memorize the entire 20-odd moves of this line??


What is the point of this remark on this particular thread, Lev?  You'll find a lot of deep analysis on this website, not only here.

But yes, when I have played OTB, I've always tried to be very well prepared.  I wouldn't say anyone should memorize, but I would say he should know his stuff well enough to remember it.  I certainly don't consider the 20th move to be some sort of barrier beyond which this doesn't apply.
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #9 - 03/08/09 at 11:55:40
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Hello,

Both Watson, and Rizzitano give the impression that by 
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bb3 b5 8.a4 b5 9.e4 move order, white can trick black into playing 9...pxp line. 
However, black can play 9...Bb7 10Nb-d2 Be7, since after 10e5 Ne4 black is ok. 
         Semko in latest version thinks 9...Bb7 delaying capture on d4, and giving priority to development is black's most reliable line.

Bye John S
  
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Re: some QGA analysis
Reply #8 - 03/02/09 at 05:00:21
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Markovich wrote on 02/27/09 at 00:05:48:
I wanted to come back to this thread and consider 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bb3 b5 8.a4 b5 9.Nbd2 Bb7 10.e4 cxd4 11.e5 Nfd7 12.Nc4 Nc6 13.Bg5 Qc7 14.Rc1 Nc5 15.Ba2 h6 16.Bf4 g5 17.Nd6+ Bxd6 18.exd6 Qb6 19.Bg3 Ne4 20.Nd2.

Here I think Rizzitano has the relative merit of Black's, rejoinders, 20...Nxd2"!" and 20...Nxg3, mixed up.

20...Nxd2 21.Qd2 b3 22.Bb1 f5 and now instead of Rizzitano's 22.Qe2, 22.Rfe1 appears to secure a very good game.

20...Nxg3 21.Nc4 Qc5! 22.fxg3 and now I think 22...0-0! is good for Black.  For instance 23.Qh5 d3+ 24.Kh1 Ne5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5 26.Qxh6 Be4= though the position is complicated.


Just a question: If you are playing in an OTB  tournament, are you going to memorize the entire 20-odd moves of this line??
  
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