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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System? (Read 18250 times)
Nelson
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #25 - 02/25/09 at 18:30:24
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I play the Kings Indian as black and dislike the early h3 lines the most which is what I play as white.
Black often falters in the complex middlegames when f5 isn't a viable option but this is also the case with the Averbach lines. I think in a way the h3 lines are an alternative/improved Averbach variation where Nh5 and f5 are difficult to play.

In reality there isn't an easy line against the Kings Indian as we would all probably be playing it. Even simple lines (exchange variation) aren't easy once you delve into them.

Nelson. Cool
  
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #24 - 02/25/09 at 02:00:23
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No supporters for the Seirawan-Variation 5.Bd3 and 6.Nge2 ? This can be played against the Modern Benoni as well.
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #23 - 02/24/09 at 18:22:46
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Markovich wrote on 02/23/09 at 16:01:33:
Well since posting about it above on the 6th of January, my Averbach System experiments have continued very satisfactorily.  Black never gets the kingside play that many KID experts find so amusing, and yet White has very respectable play for advantage.  I'm torn between this and my beloved Four Pawns Attack, which is an entirely different way of playing chess, of course.  But for the time being I'll persist with the Averbach since it seems to me that Black's problems aren't so easily solved even in his best lines.  Further if a reasonably intelligent shifting-about of one's pieces is enough for advantage, why embark upon a do-or-die attack?

I'll probably keep both weapons in my repertoire and choose the one best suited to my opponent.  But anyone who wants to play the Averbach should get ahold of the Offbeat KID book that a mentioned before.

I don't suppose I would call Averbach's easy to learn nor, of course, is it considered very critical to the KID.  But it's interesting.


Hi Markovich,

What line specifically do you play in the Averbach? I've always thought 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 0-0 6. Bg5 Na6 7. Qd2 e5 8. d5 Nc5 9. f3 a5 10. h4 c6 11. g4 cxd5 12. cxd5 Bd7 to be okay for Black, as given in Gallaghers Play the King's Indian , though maybe it's just because I've rarely met someone who actually specialized in the Averbach. I've always itched to play 13. Nh3 b5!?, but I've never made it this far into Averbach theory in a real game.  Angry It's quite rare. I can also relate to looking for a second system to supplement the 4-pawns, which has been my main line against the KID for quite a while.
  
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #22 - 02/24/09 at 07:17:23
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drkodos wrote on 02/23/09 at 14:29:28:
TN wrote on 02/23/09 at 09:00:02:
The Exchange Variation is very easy to learn, but against most players you will probably reach an equal ending that is difficult for either side to win, unless one of the players makes a severe positional mistake.



I know several Masters that employ the exchange variation regularly and score well with it as their main weapon against lower rated KID wielding opponents. Their argument is that the ensuing positions are no doubt equal, but contain a number of tricks and traps for the unwary and allow a stronger person outplay their opponent and that White can play without much risk with a draw always in hand.  

I think this is a valid perspective.


It is certainly a valid perspective, although I disagree with some parts of it.

I admit that I was a bit harsh when I said that Black has to make a severe positional mistake to lose. I agree with you that there are tricks and traps that Black has to be aware of, but the same could also be said for White, as in some lines White can run into trouble against a prepared Black opponent if he (W) is unprepared.

Still, I agree that it makes sense for the stronger player to play this, since as you stated, the stronger player is usually able to outplay his/her opponent. And if Black is the stronger player, then he can often play for the win with the draw in hand as well. I wouldn't recommend it as one's main choice against the KID as then KID advocates will not be surprised by it, but that is just my opinion.

There is a chapter on the Exchange KID from the book 'From the Opening to the Endgame' by Edmar Mednis. It's two decades old, but some of the strategic plans in it are highly relevant even today.

ECO E also has some coverage of this line, although since I don't have a copy of the latest issue I cannot comment on the quality and quantity of coverage.
  

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drkodos
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #21 - 02/23/09 at 22:10:54
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Novosibirsk wrote on 02/23/09 at 00:54:27:
By the way is there any book on the KID exchange variation ? (except Grivas antifianchetto book)


I won't claim the book price would be valued on just the one chapter, but Golubev's book has some good info on the Exchange variation.
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #20 - 02/23/09 at 18:20:09
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Greetings,

Novosibirsk wrote on 02/23/09 at 00:54:27:
If you asked GM Ulf Andersson he would probably advocate the Exchange variation. Grinding down his oponent in move 115. You can probably learn to play it within 60 minutes. For me this is a real easy to learn "Anti-Kings Indian system". Its more about learning the upcoming endgames that will follow.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?yearcomp=exactly&year=&playercomp=white&...

By the way is there any book on the KID exchange variation ? (except Grivas antifianchetto book)

I first came across this variation in Mednis' From the Opening into the Endgame, where it was one of the lines he suggested for those wishing to by-pass the middle-game - presumably those who believe that they have better chances to out-play their opponent in the endgame.

I'd imagine, like most variations, it's covered in the standard KID books - Gallagher, etc - without any being specifically based solely on this variation.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #19 - 02/23/09 at 16:01:33
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Well since posting about it above on the 6th of January, my Averbach System experiments have continued very satisfactorily.  Black never gets the kingside play that many KID experts find so amusing, and yet White has very respectable play for advantage.  I'm torn between this and my beloved Four Pawns Attack, which is an entirely different way of playing chess, of course.  But for the time being I'll persist with the Averbach since it seems to me that Black's problems aren't so easily solved even in his best lines.  Further if a reasonably intelligent shifting-about of one's pieces is enough for advantage, why embark upon a do-or-die attack?

I'll probably keep both weapons in my repertoire and choose the one best suited to my opponent.  But anyone who wants to play the Averbach should get ahold of the Offbeat KID book that a mentioned before.

I don't suppose I would call Averbach's easy to learn nor, of course, is it considered very critical to the KID.  But it's interesting.
« Last Edit: 02/23/09 at 17:37:14 by Markovich »  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #18 - 02/23/09 at 14:29:28
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TN wrote on 02/23/09 at 09:00:02:
The Exchange Variation is very easy to learn, but against most players you will probably reach an equal ending that is difficult for either side to win, unless one of the players makes a severe positional mistake.



I know several Masters that employ the exchange variation regularly and score well with it as their main weapon against lower rated KID wielding opponents. Their argument is that the ensuing positions are no doubt equal, but contain a number of tricks and traps for the unwary and allow a stronger person outplay their opponent and that White can play without much risk with a draw always in hand. 

I think this is a valid perspective.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #17 - 02/23/09 at 09:00:02
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The Fianchetto Variation isn't too hard to learn, and is also low-maintenance, particularly if you don't play the absolute main lines (e.g. 6...Nbd7 7.Nc3 e5 8.h3 instead of 8.e4). I found this suggestion from Soltis's book 'Grandmaster Secrets: Openings'.

The Exchange Variation is very easy to learn, but against most players you will probably reach an equal ending that is difficult for either side to win, unless one of the players makes a severe positional mistake.
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #16 - 02/23/09 at 00:54:27
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If you asked GM Ulf Andersson he would probably advocate the Exchange variation. Grinding down his oponent in move 115. You can probably learn to play it within 60 minutes. For me this is a real easy to learn "Anti-Kings Indian system". Its more about learning the upcoming endgames that will follow.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?yearcomp=exactly&year=&playercomp=white&...


By the way is there any book on the KID exchange variation ? (except Grivas antifianchetto book)
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #15 - 01/06/09 at 07:54:41
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Markovich wrote on 01/01/09 at 06:09:31:
I think that the Averbach system, 5.Be2 and 6.Bg5, has a great deal of promise and is fairly easy to play as White.  The best sources are Golubev's excellent KID book and Offbeat King's Indian by Panczuk and Ilczuk.  The latter is the most comprehensive.  I recently took this up, and my experience with it has been good.


There was also a book by Petursson but that's quite old now.
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #14 - 01/06/09 at 04:48:53
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MNb wrote on 01/06/09 at 01:39:54:
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.d4 d6 6.e4 seems to lead to the KID Fianchetto without allowing the Grünfeld. 3...d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 does not automatically transpose; after Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 White may try 7.Rb1. Or can Black take benefit from this move order?


It's my impression that the line with 7. Rb1 has long been considered rather promising for White, and that Black gets better than he deserves in the first line after 6...c5 -- but he had already given up the opportunity to force any sort of Gruenfeld some moves before.
  
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #13 - 01/06/09 at 01:39:54
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1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.d4 d6 6.e4 seems to lead to the KID Fianchetto without allowing the Grünfeld. 3...d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 does not automatically transpose; after Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 White may try 7.Rb1. Or can Black take benefit from this move order?
  

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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #12 - 01/05/09 at 12:20:27
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i have played blitz against an expert level player and he does averbach variation, and then follows up with f4 then e5, real annoying.  however why not try the g3 variation?  most KID players don't like the g3 variation, of course you will have to prepare for a grunfeld as well.
  
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Re: What is an Easy to Learn Anti-KID System?
Reply #11 - 01/04/09 at 22:36:12
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Greetings,

kylemeister wrote on 01/04/09 at 02:53:33:
I must admit that I have trouble associating "White's attack plays itself" with the Averbakh; I think of the typical White-win scenarios as being positional/endgame squeezes of various kinds.

Agreed - I remember Gallagher, in his original book on the KID, saying that the Averbakh and certain others were more positionally-oriented than the more aggressive Four Pawns Attack.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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