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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit (Read 129929 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #17 - 01/06/09 at 03:06:23
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Tim McGrew, known most for once doing a ChessCafe column wrote a nice booklet that he sold through ICC on the BDG and the Hubsch.  Of course there were mistakes but a lot of the analysis was quite good.  I agree that the Hubsch is unfortunately unsound and against the BDG I'd love to see what White's supposed to do against the Ziegler or whatever you call the defense with after 1.d4 d4 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 (of course 3...e5 is very critical too) 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 c6.
  
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #16 - 01/06/09 at 01:50:52
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I am going to give my opinion on some postings.

Wcywing addressed a question to IM Christoph Wisnewski.

this might be a foolish question, do you believe that the BDG is sound?  and have you played the BDG in a serious game.  

Christoph replied

I can assure you that I was very critical while writing this book. Unlike Lane (whose chapters about the Ziegler and the Lemberger are a case for the scrapheap) and Sawyer (who sometimes loves to dismiss critical lines with an uncommented, irrelevant white win in some ICC blitz game) I did "refute" a few lines so far thought to be playable.

But that doesn't mean, the BDG is refuted itself! In fact, I do think that in every Black setup White has enough play to justify his pawn sacrifice. I will not deny that Black will come close to equality (or even achieve it) in most of these lines, but at least it is dynamic (and not dull) equality.

Let me outline my opinion.

I have played the BDG a great deal in both correspondence and over the board play. Although for several years I have given it a rest due to staleness. In my opinion white always has some compensation for the pawn. Whether it is always enough is the 64 dollar question.

As far as the books by Sawyer and Lane are concerned I have the following comments. The Reverend Sawyer did a great job in collecting material from a great many sources and collating them. However like me he is an amateur and some of his judgments on positions may be suspect. Lane wrote a book which is much stronger on judging positions. However I disagree with the lines he gives against the Teichmann and especially the Lemberger. I also disagree with Lane in that I think that the Hubsch is unsound.  A crucial point is that  there has been a lot of developments in the opening since these books were published.


Wcwwing wrote

this is good news!  most BDG material is rather bias, or to optimistic.  lemberger and ziegler seems to be the best, with the tiechman not far behind.  who is the publisher?  can't wait to see it.  i might play it again after all; or least against those annoying C-K and French players.  

Well I think that I have a really good line against the Lemberger but until I check it against the analysis by Cox I am not totally sure. The Ziegler is in my opinion the critical test of the BDG. There is one line where I am unsure that white has full compensation. One of my mates who is a double IM (over the board and correspondence thinks that white has compensation).

As far as the kerosine is concerned (as an Irish mate terms the C-K ) the attempts to transpose to the BDG need to be examined in depth.

As far as the French is concerned there are transpositions to the Blackmar-Diemer gambit which occur but are seldom mentioned. For instance I found the line in the McCutcheon

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.f3 which was played by Emmanuel Lasker against Tarrasch  in 1916.         


Thank you Papagano for telling me what Wahls recommends.


M Wahls: "Modernes Skandinavisch" (1997) opted for
1. e4 d5 2. d4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 Bf5 , e.g. 5. fxe4 Nxe4 6. Qf3 Nd6 7. Bf4 e6. At that time he saw black advantage in most lines. However, I don't know whether the 2nd edition of the book (Co-authors were then GM Karsten Mueller et. al.) introduced anything else against BDG.

What is the theoretical status of 4..Bf5 today? Any chances for White for equal play? Regards, papageno.

This is called the Vienna Defence. There is a great deal of published analysis and many games with this variation. Without studying Wahl's analysis I cannot give you an accurate opinion on the current state of this variation. However in the past white has scored very well against the above line and also with 5.g4
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #15 - 01/05/09 at 21:44:57
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 01/05/09 at 05:23:48:
Too bad this thread did not start 1-2 months earlier; as some might already know, I am currently working on a new book about the BDG - It is nearly finished, the final first draft will probably be finished in a week.

I would have loved to see your ideas, David; but then again, I do think that I have some new ideas up my sleeve as well Wink


Hopefully you've already noticed this, but there is a ton of material here on the forum.   Even I, although I've tried to defend the White side in some variations, would say too many threads here on the forum as I felt we'd established at least some Black advantage.

I'll definitely be buying the book if only not to embarrass myself too much should I face the BDG!
  
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #14 - 01/05/09 at 13:08:07
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GM Wahls: "Modernes Skandinavisch" (1997) opted for
1. e4 d5 2. d4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 Bf5 , e.g. 5. fxe4 Nxe4 6. Qf3 Nd6 7. Bf4 e6. At that time he saw black advantage in most lines. However, I don't know whether the 2nd edition of the book (Co-authors were then GM Karsten Mueller et. al.) introduced anything else against BDG.

What is the theoretical status of 4..Bf5 today? Any chances for White for equal play? Regards, papageno.



  
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #13 - 01/05/09 at 10:13:42
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 01/05/09 at 10:04:37:
I can assure you that I was very critical while writing this book. Unlike Lane (whose chapters about the Ziegler and the Lemberger are a case for the scrapheap) and Sawyer (who sometimes loves to dismiss critical lines with an uncommented, irrelevant white win in some ICC blitz game) I did "refute" a few lines so far thought to be playable.

But that doesn't mean, the BDG is refuted itself! In fact, I do think that in every Black setup White has enough play to justify his pawn sacrifice. I will not deny that Black will come close to equality (or even achieve it) in most of these lines, but at least it is dynamic (and not dull) equality.


this is good news!  most BDG material is rather bias, or to optimistic.  lemberger and ziegler seems to be the best, with the tiechman not far behind.  who is the publisher?  can't wait to see it.  i might play it again after all; or least against those annoying C-K and French players. 
  
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IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #12 - 01/05/09 at 10:04:37
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I can assure you that I was very critical while writing this book. Unlike Lane (whose chapters about the Ziegler and the Lemberger are a case for the scrapheap) and Sawyer (who sometimes loves to dismiss critical lines with an uncommented, irrelevant white win in some ICC blitz game) I did "refute" a few lines so far thought to be playable.

But that doesn't mean, the BDG is refuted itself! In fact, I do think that in every Black setup White has enough play to justify his pawn sacrifice. I will not deny that Black will come close to equality (or even achieve it) in most of these lines, but at least it is dynamic (and not dull) equality.
  

"Chess you don't learn, chess you understand!" (V. Korchnoi)
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #11 - 01/05/09 at 09:44:11
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 01/05/09 at 09:24:17:
I have not played the BDG in a serious game yet, but this is only because tournament games I play very rarely these days. I did play the BDG in numerous blitz games on the Internet Chess Club.

Is the BDG sound? That depends on your definition of "soundness".


some people take ICC blitz very seriously, i don't but i think its still fun.  i define soundness as, if i play this i have a reasonable chance at winning, but not losing outright, or would you use it in a tournament game?  my best result w/the BDG is drawing an expert; my worse was losing to a 1300-1400 player.  not bad i guess, but i stopped after that.  i'm more of a e4 player.  i have used BDG against C-K and French defence with mixed results.
  
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IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #10 - 01/05/09 at 09:24:17
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I have not played the BDG in a serious game yet, but this is only because tournament games I play very rarely these days. I did play the BDG in numerous blitz games on the Internet Chess Club.

Is the BDG sound? That depends on your definition of "soundness".
  

"Chess you don't learn, chess you understand!" (V. Korchnoi)
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #9 - 01/05/09 at 09:07:26
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 01/05/09 at 05:23:48:
Too bad this thread did not start 1-2 months earlier; as some might already know, I am currently working on a new book about the BDG - It is nearly finished, the final first draft will probably be finished in a week.

I would have loved to see your ideas, David; but then again, I do think that I have some new ideas up my sleeve as well Wink


this might be a foolish question, do you believe that the BDG is sound?  and have you played the BDG in a serious game.  
  
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #8 - 01/05/09 at 07:31:57
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 01/05/09 at 05:23:48:
Too bad this thread did not start 1-2 months earlier; as some might already know, I am currently working on a new book about the BDG - It is nearly finished, the final first draft will probably be finished in a week.

I would have loved to see your ideas, David; but then again, I do think that I have some new ideas up my sleeve as well Wink


That is great that you are working on a book on the BDG. I am at least twelve months away from publishing anything and I may keep my analysis secret for use in correspondence.
  

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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #7 - 01/05/09 at 06:39:07
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James Rizzitano in his QGA repertoire book advocates the Euwe, citing Gallagher quite a few times.


By the way, I thought "Chess you don't learn, chess you understand" was from Ljubojevic ...
  
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IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #6 - 01/05/09 at 05:23:48
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Too bad this thread did not start 1-2 months earlier; as some might already know, I am currently working on a new book about the BDG - It is nearly finished, the final first draft will probably be finished in a week.

I would have loved to see your ideas, David; but then again, I do think that I have some new ideas up my sleeve as well Wink
« Last Edit: 01/05/09 at 06:42:21 by IM Christoph Wisnewski »  

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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #5 - 01/04/09 at 09:47:54
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Matemax wrote on 01/04/09 at 05:51:44:
Quote:
Gallagher – Beating the Anti King's Indians which gives a line of the Euwe Defence.

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf 5.Nf3 e6 I have scored well with this line as black in correspondence fixed openings tournaments. However I have analyzed a line which leads to a position where white regains the pawn with a position I find difficult to evaluate. As always if black gets it wrong the wheels come off.

Facing the BDG I follow Gallagher and until now it just looked bad for White. It would be very interesting to get some of your thoughts about White's chances and - if you dont mind - some lines.


Look carefully at Gallagher and you will find one line that he gives as being unclear. I do not wish to reveal too much of my analysis as it is a work in progress.
  

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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #4 - 01/04/09 at 05:51:44
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Quote:
Gallagher – Beating the Anti King's Indians which gives a line of the Euwe Defence.

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf 5.Nf3 e6 I have scored well with this line as black in correspondence fixed openings tournaments. However I have analyzed a line which leads to a position where white regains the pawn with a position I find difficult to evaluate. As always if black gets it wrong the wheels come off.

Facing the BDG I follow Gallagher and until now it just looked bad for White. It would be very interesting to get some of your thoughts about White's chances and - if you dont mind - some lines.
  
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Re: Antidotes to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit
Reply #3 - 01/04/09 at 04:16:54
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Andrew Martin here

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_pieces/110103_blackmar_dmr_gmbt.html

wrote about the Von Hennig-Milner Barry Gambit. That makes me wonder if other authors on the Caro-Kann have written on the transposition 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3 or 4.Bc4/5.f3.

I am playing this very line in correspondence so cannot comment on this variation as I am still in the opening. I will say that considerable thought needs to be given to whether to play 4.f3 or 4.Bc4 followed by 5.f3.
  

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