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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Pirc for CC (Read 6031 times)
JEH
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #12 - 01/11/09 at 22:18:13
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Stigma wrote on 01/11/09 at 21:59:04:
Amazingly in the last 4 years black players have contrived to lose almost every (OTB) game in the critical lines


Curses, the conspiracy has been discovered  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Stigma
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #11 - 01/11/09 at 21:59:04
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Stigma wrote on 01/11/09 at 13:36:57:
White is also scoring extremely well with [4.Be3 c6] 5.Qd2 b5 6.Bd3 Nbd7 7.Nf3 OTB lately whether black goes for 7...e5 or 7...Qc7, but I don't know the theoretical status of this.

I was exaggerating here. In fact black has acceptable results with either 7...Qc7 or Kindermann's line 7...e5 8.dxe5 dxe5 9.h3! Bb7 10.0-0 a6 11.a4 Bg7 12.Ne2 Qe7! (instead of 12...0-0 which is struggling.) Besides, black may try to avoid this whole line by using Marin's 5...Nbd7!? move order, keeping open the option of playing without an early ...b5.

Amazingly in the last 4 years black players have contrived to lose almost every (OTB) game in the critical lines 4.Be3 c6 5.Qd2 b5 6.f3 Nbd7 7.g4 Nb6 8.h4 h5 9.g5 Nfd7 10.d5!? and 10.f4. 10.d5 in particular looks like a fertile area for analysis; even if Vigus' book takes it very seriously. When I find the time I will take a close look at this and try to decide which side of the board I prefer!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #10 - 01/11/09 at 20:27:59
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I'm really surprised that nobody points that the 4.Bg4 variation is really nasty to meet. I don't have Vigus work..., is there something new?

Thx
  

"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #9 - 01/11/09 at 15:10:13
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I presume that James Vigus's book is also essential for this venture?
  

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Stigma
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #8 - 01/11/09 at 13:36:57
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HgMan wrote on 01/10/09 at 21:34:06:
My sense is that Black surrenders space and White can determine the nature of the ensuing game, but that the unbalanced positions can yield some rewarding results for the second player. Or is the Pirc objectively an inferior opening and Black will always be playing catch-up?


My current thinking is the latter. I play it sometimes OTB to ensure unbalanced positions and winning chances, but when I want to play for theoretical equality I do something else.

In that spirit I meet the Austrian with 5...0-0 to avoid the forced draw after 5...c5 6.Bb5+, but I suspect 5...c5 is objectively the best move, and black should be OK there.

4.Be3 is the real problem. I've always played 4...c6, but either of 5.h3, 5.Qd2 b5 6.Bd3, 5.Qd2 b5 6.f3 and 5.Nf3!? require hard work and theoretically I'm really worried about the first. In http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1169821247/15#15 I debated 4...c6 5.h3 followed by f4 with Vigus and others; I still consider this a big threat to black. White can also throw the h3-g4 "Archbishop Attack" in; I think this is particularly strong when Black has committed to Nbd7 (no ...d5 break). White is also scoring extremely well with 5.Qd2 b5 6.Bd3 Nbd7 7.Nf3 OTB lately whether black goes for 7...e5 or 7...Qc7, but I don't know the theoretical status of this.

After 4.Be3 Bg7 the lines with W 0-0-0 versus B 0-0 were discussed by JEH and MNb in this thread (and the one above): http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1174659643/30
To me this looks scary for Black. But maybe there are improvements to be found.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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JEH
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #7 - 01/11/09 at 13:02:15
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I'd be happy to play the Pirc under CC conditions, except that I don't play CC.

There is plenty of scope for mainline novelties in the Pirc. When the Khalifmann book came out, I spent some time finding my own to use against his recommendations, none of which I've needed to use yet, but it helps with my confidence in the defence.

Colin McNab often plays the Pirc in a solid style to equalise and outplay in the ending, which seems a good plan for CC. I have studied his games quite a lot.

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Antillian
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #6 - 01/11/09 at 11:54:16
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Incidentally, according to Vigus, Colin McNab has used the Pirc quite a bit in CC.
  

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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #5 - 01/11/09 at 11:28:41
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HgMan wrote on 01/10/09 at 21:34:06:
Is it a viable option for correspondence chess?  With some advance preparation and a good library/database/etc., can a correspondence player successfully navigate the more difficult variations and achieve a decent score with the Pirc?


Probably yes. It will demand a lot of work (but so do the Najdorf and the Breyer), but in fact the Austrian Attack and the 4.Be3-systems might provide Black with some nice counterplay, if Black manages to play accurately the first 20 moves.
What worries me more, from Black's perspective, is the Classical with Be2, where White has nothing, but Black still has some small problems and difficult choices. If White plays a2-a4-a5 Black can initiate counterplay with ...b7-b5, but what if White just plays normal moves (something like Be3, Qd2, h3, Rfe1, Rad1, answering ...e5 with dxe5). Here I must admit that I have tried the Pirc three our four times with horrible results: 0/3 (or 4).
  

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HgMan
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #4 - 01/11/09 at 01:30:37
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My second question: is there room for finding novelties for Black in these mainline systems?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Antillian
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #3 - 01/11/09 at 00:00:33
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I would think the Austrian Attack is a lot more fearful OTB than in correspondence play. It is dangerous OTB IMHPO primarily because, it demands precision and good theoretical knowledge from Black. This will be less of an issue in CC. In the end, most of the fire fizzles out and Black is fine. I faced the Austrian as Black  in CC recently against a higher rated opponent and after all the tactics fizzled out, I slowly outplayed my opponent and won a nice game.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #2 - 01/10/09 at 23:43:19
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One observation is that, although the Pirc has been pretty unpopular at high level since, oh, I'd say the mid-80s at least, encyclopedias have long thought rather well of it.  At least the last four incarnations of ECO/NCO/MCO (published from 1999 to 2008) thought that the best-play lines should be equal or unclear -- i.e. no path for White to "+=".        
  
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Re: Pirc for CC
Reply #1 - 01/10/09 at 21:42:03
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Looking in my relevant Khalifman book - "Openings according to Anand", it seems that the Pirc is difficult to play due to the simple plan with e4,d4,f4 and e5.

If you find a respectable answer to this 3-pawns-attack (Austrian Attack) the Pirc could be an interesting choice for cc, cause it includes a bit of provocation for White - perhaps you even get winning chances if White is pushing too much?!
  
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HgMan
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Pirc for CC
01/10/09 at 21:34:06
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I've been reading through a number of the Pirc threads, all of which seem to share a consistent refrain: the opening is fine, but White has so many viable options to make Black's life uncomfortable that it's become a difficult task to stay on top of things.  But I'd like to ask a deeper question about the Pirc's theoretical status. 

Is it a viable option for correspondence chess?  With some advance preparation and a good library/database/etc., can a correspondence player successfully navigate the more difficult variations and achieve a decent score with the Pirc? 

My sense is that Black surrenders space and White can determine the nature of the ensuing game, but that the unbalanced positions can yield some rewarding results for the second player.  Or is the Pirc objectively an inferior opening and Black will always be playing catch-up?
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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