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Poll Question: How often do you play the Colle?



« Created by: Rookpawn on: 01/18/09 at 17:40:56 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do you play the Colle? (Read 16950 times)
1.b4
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #30 - 04/22/09 at 14:51:13
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kylemeister wrote on 04/22/09 at 14:43:05:
1.b4 wrote on 04/22/09 at 13:13:53:
Therefore i play the Tromp after 1. ... Nf6  Smiley

After 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 b6 (which i often face) 3. Nbd2 with the idea of playing 4.e4 is interesting.


You could even be so bold as to play 3. e4.


Uahh! You´re of course right. Cheesy
So after 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Ndb2 allows to play 4.e4 after 3. ... b6. And you play Nbd2 anyway in the Colle.
  

[Event "CZE-ch"]&&[Site "Turnov"]&&[Date "1996"]&&[Round "10"]&&[White "Vokac,Marek"]&&[Black "Bazant,Petr Sr"]&&[Eco "A00"]&&1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Nd7 3.Nf3 Ngf6 4.e3 g6 5.c4 dxc4 6.Bxc4 Bg7 7.Bxf7+&&1-0
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #29 - 04/22/09 at 14:43:05
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1.b4 wrote on 04/22/09 at 13:13:53:
Therefore i play the Tromp after 1. ... Nf6  Smiley

After 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 b6 (which i often face) 3. Nbd2 with the idea of playing 4.e4 is interesting.


You could even be so bold as to play 3. e4.
  
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1.b4
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #28 - 04/22/09 at 13:13:53
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Therefore i play the Tromp after 1. ... Nf6  Smiley

After 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 b6 (which i often face) 3. Nbd2 with the idea of playing 4.e4 is interesting.
  

[Event "CZE-ch"]&&[Site "Turnov"]&&[Date "1996"]&&[Round "10"]&&[White "Vokac,Marek"]&&[Black "Bazant,Petr Sr"]&&[Eco "A00"]&&1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Nd7 3.Nf3 Ngf6 4.e3 g6 5.c4 dxc4 6.Bxc4 Bg7 7.Bxf7+&&1-0
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MilenPetrov
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #27 - 04/22/09 at 06:25:16
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Yep, transfering the game to the 4.e3 or some minor variation of the QID Smiley.
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #26 - 04/21/09 at 22:37:56
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Aha, I sea what you mean. After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 b6 3.e3 Bb7 White's best chance indeed is to play c2-c4 at some stage.
  

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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #25 - 04/21/09 at 07:24:55
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For me the simplest solution is to play 2...b6 after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 inviting White to enter the QID.
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #24 - 04/21/09 at 03:42:10
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LOL, how do you prevent 1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.e3 then? You don't play the Englund, do you?
  

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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #23 - 04/20/09 at 18:20:52
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I never reached Colle in my practice. Simply because my opening repertoire is such constructed that I do not allow such extravagant lines Wink
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #22 - 04/19/09 at 18:26:15
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MNb wrote on 04/17/09 at 03:27:38:
After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.e3 Bg4 I think the Colle completely harmless.



This is the system I employ to great effect for black.
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #21 - 04/18/09 at 16:10:09
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Glenn Snow wrote on 04/18/09 at 12:09:08:
MNb wrote on 04/18/09 at 01:18:14:
Black has won about 50% of the games according to my database after 7...Nc6.


I can't remember what the recommendation after 7...Nc6 was (after 1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.c4 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be2 0-0 7.0-0) but I'd say White has at least some edge after 8.d5! Ne5 9.Qb3.  7...Nc6 certainly makes things more interesting but Kraii actually believed Black's best response was 7...c5 because after 8.dxc5 dxc5 there's nothing White can do to stop Black from achieving ...e5.  Instead White should probably just play 8.Qc2 and perhaps follow up with Rb1 or Rd1  or both and play d5 in certain circumstances.  White doesn't really have a lot in this line but his position is still easier to play.  As a Leningrad Dutch player I find the whole variation rather annoying so I finally started thinking about playing the other side!  If someone can show me a better way to play for Black, then I'm all for it.   Smiley


A couple of corrections.  First, this was recommended by IM Vigorito (on here as "fluffy" I believe) and not GM Kraii.  Secondly, after 7...Nc6, he mentions 8.Nxe5 but his primary recommendation is 8.Nd4.
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #20 - 04/18/09 at 12:09:08
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MNb wrote on 04/18/09 at 01:18:14:
Black has won about 50% of the games according to my database after 7...Nc6.


I can't remember what the recommendation after 7...Nc6 was (after 1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.c4 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be2 0-0 7.0-0) but I'd say White has at least some edge after 8.d5! Ne5 9.Qb3.  7...Nc6 certainly makes things more interesting but Kraii actually believed Black's best response was 7...c5 because after 8.dxc5 dxc5 there's nothing White can do to stop Black from achieving ...e5.  Instead White should probably just play 8.Qc2 and perhaps follow up with Rb1 or Rd1  or both and play d5 in certain circumstances.  White doesn't really have a lot in this line but his position is still easier to play.  As a Leningrad Dutch player I find the whole variation rather annoying so I finally started thinking about playing the other side!  If someone can show me a better way to play for Black, then I'm all for it.   Smiley
  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #19 - 04/18/09 at 01:18:14
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Black has won about 50% of the games according to my database after 7...Nc6.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #18 - 04/17/09 at 17:37:47
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MNb wrote on 04/17/09 at 03:27:38:
Against the KID setups the Stonewall strategy seems to be the only way for the Colle player to initiate a kingside attack. I have serious doubts about the prospects though. Maybe that has to do with my prejudices against the Dutch Stonewall.

To me the Colle seems most interesting after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 etcetera. Play is somewhat similar to the Meran with colours reversed. Piece play against the black king is one important option indeed; think of Colle's famous sacrifice Bxh7+ against O'Hanlon. If Black manages to prevent it White also can try an endgame with the queenside majority. Problem lines for White are 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bd6 7.Nbd7 0-0 8.Qe2 Qc7 9.dxc5 Bxc5 10.e4 h6 and Bb6, as GM Kosten has pointed out in the past. Similar lines with colours reversed do very well for White.

After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.e3 Bg4 I think the Colle completely harmless.

Against the Classical Dutch it can be used to transpose to the Rubinstein System: 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bd3 followed by 5.0-0 and 6.c4. This is not so easy for Black.

The Colle against the Leningrad offers nothing to White: 1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6. If White tries 3.c4 instead, intending to play more regular stuff against the Leningrad, he allows 3...e6 and 4...Bb4(+).


I think White has a solid choice with the Colle against the Leningrad system with 1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.c4 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be2 0-0 7.0-0 and it's not easy for Black to achieve active play while White probes on the queen side.  This system has been recommended by GM Kraii.

  
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #17 - 04/17/09 at 03:27:38
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Against the KID setups the Stonewall strategy seems to be the only way for the Colle player to initiate a kingside attack. I have serious doubts about the prospects though. Maybe that has to do with my prejudices against the Dutch Stonewall.

To me the Colle seems most interesting after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 etcetera. Play is somewhat similar to the Meran with colours reversed. Piece play against the black king is one important option indeed; think of Colle's famous sacrifice Bxh7+ against O'Hanlon. If Black manages to prevent it White also can try an endgame with the queenside majority. Problem lines for White are 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bd6 7.Nbd7 0-0 8.Qe2 Qc7 9.dxc5 Bxc5 10.e4 h6 and Bb6, as GM Kosten has pointed out in the past. Similar lines with colours reversed do very well for White.

After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 c6 3.e3 Bg4 I think the Colle completely harmless.

Against the Classical Dutch it can be used to transpose to the Rubinstein System: 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bd3 followed by 5.0-0 and 6.c4. This is not so easy for Black.

The Colle against the Leningrad offers nothing to White: 1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6. If White tries 3.c4 instead, intending to play more regular stuff against the Leningrad, he allows 3...e6 and 4...Bb4(+).
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Do you play the Colle?
Reply #16 - 04/16/09 at 18:50:15
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I always thought of the Colle as being one of those inherently aggressive "slow build up" openings, similar to the Torre Attack but with the bishop not developed to g5 before playing e3.  At club level many games see a quick e3-e4 from White, followed by the classic "Stonewall" type moves like Ne5, f4, Rf3-h3 etc, and if Black isn't careful White can develop a formidable kingside attack.

I agree with TopNotch that the King's Indian setups are hard to crack, having seen it regularly played against the Colle in recent club games, I'm not sure what White's best bet is against it.  It also works quite well against the Torre I believe.
  
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