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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NEW BDG BOOK (Read 219987 times)
Jonathan Tait
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #126 - 02/24/11 at 07:27:40
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Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 17:39:30:
The second part is published in UON #27. It will be officially released after I finish proofreading it. The line 9...c6 is covered there. UON #27 is dated Jan-May 2011; UON #25, October 2009.


ok, so Smiley
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #125 - 02/23/11 at 23:24:36
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SWJediknight wrote on 01/25/11 at 20:32:27:
8...Nc6 9.d5 Na5! 10.Be2 c6 or 10.Bb3 Nxb3 11.axb3 b6 are both clearly better for Black.  9.Be3 is a better try than 9.d5, but again 9...Na5 10.Bd3 Nd5 11.Nxd5 Qxd5 is better for Black.

I haven't seen anything to change my opinion of those lines, and therefore my opinion of 8.h3.  Then again, Scheerer's analysis suggests that even 8.Qe1 might not equalise for White after 8...Nc6 9.Qh4 Bg4 (confirming ArKheiN's earlier suspicions), so this brings us back to 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2, as also recommended by Stefan Bucker in Kaissiber (the key ideas being 0-0-0, Bh6 and h2-h4-h5 in most lines, or 7...c5 8.d5 with the book pointing out the idea 9.d6! supported by the Bf4).  Theory and practice are lacking in this line, but in my opinion it looks quite promising for White.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #124 - 02/23/11 at 17:44:05
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Markovich wrote on 02/23/11 at 12:44:09:
Lev and MNb, would you please cut out the bickering about who sent what and when, and who received what and when, and get back to chess?  No one else cares about that stuff.

I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.  I believe this idea is fairly common in the Staunton.  I went on to win a short game with O-O, Qe1, Qh4 and so forth. 

But while I still doubt the merit of a3 in the situations where Lev was looking at it, this shows that there are some gambit situations where moves like a3 are called for. 


I should point out that 8 h3 in the Bogoljubow Defense is also good, so your quote applies there too.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #123 - 02/23/11 at 17:39:30
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The second part is published in UON #27. It will be officially released after I finish proofreading it. The line 9...c6 is covered there. UON #27 is dated Jan-May 2011; UON #25, October 2009.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #122 - 02/23/11 at 13:41:44
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Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
I published plenty of articles with materials that were not included in the Blackmar-Diemer gambit book. These include the following:

(...)

Fourth, since we are talking about the Vienna Defense, 4...Bf5, there is no mention of 5 Bg5! the Polish Attack.

(...)

So, 7 moves, and only 2 are covered! Why is it that there was an omission?


because - to all those other five moves and to all the other lines you mention:

Quote:
Upon closer reading, you will discover that this is neither a repertoire book (which treats only a few selected lines) nor a complete guide (which incorporates every possible crossroads). First and foremost, this book is meant as a stimulus to kindle an objective debate about the Blackmar-Diemer, and to introduce the opening to players who were previously unaware of it (like me). To these ends, it provides a sound basis by presenting the elementary concepts of this opening as well as the most important old ideas and many new ideas for both sides in the most critical variations.


i.e. those lines are not included because the author (presumably) does not consider them to be "the most critical variations".

Indeed, in the Euwe, for example, he could have written about 6 a3, 6 Bc4, 6 Bd3, 6 Be3, 6 Bf4, 6 Ne5 - but he didn't because 6 Bg5 is the critical variation and no other moves are really any good: 6 a3 is too soon and too slow; 6 Ne5 is also too soon; 6 Be3, 6 Bc4 and 6 Bf4 all misplace these pieces; 6 Bd3 allows 6...c5 (which is briefly mentioned). Hence virtually the entire chapter is concerned with 6 Bg5 which is White's only really promising move.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
Fifth, the Studier-Zilbermints (aka Orlov's Line, Delayed Studier) Attack in the Bogoljubow Defense.That line goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf6 g6 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3!

Now, according to Scheerer, page 174, 8...Nc6 is strong here. However, the rest is just silly moves again. Personally, I never really play 9 Bg5, but instead, 9 d5 or 9 Ne2.


9 Bg5 and 9 Be3 are the only moves played in the main databases. Of course 9 d5 and 9 Ne2 are also possible but you have yet to show why these moves are objectively any good either and why, therefore, an author should seriously consider them and write about them (without prior prompting).

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
Sixth, the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense to the BDG. That variation goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1!

Scheerer analyzes 9...Nxf3 10 Qxf3, 9...Nc6, 9...h6 as the responses against my gambit. He does not analyze 9...c5 or  9...Nf5 lines.


But he does also give 9...c6 ("may be the most promising line for Black"). Here, too, you have yet to show why this isn't just good for Black (who is two pawns up with a very solid position). Of course it's variation V in your UON article, but the first part (Sept 2009) only got as far as variation III and we are still to see the rest.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #121 - 02/23/11 at 13:31:09
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I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.


Even in that line (assuming you mean 1.d4) 7.a3 doesn't look very much to the point. In contrast 7.Ng5 - intending Nxh7 or Bxh7 - looks quite promising.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #120 - 02/23/11 at 12:44:09
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Lev and MNb, would you please cut out the bickering about who sent what and when, and who received what and when, and get back to chess?  No one else cares about that stuff.

I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.  I believe this idea is fairly common in the Staunton.  I went on to win a short game with O-O, Qe1, Qh4 and so forth. 

But while I still doubt the merit of a3 in the situations where Lev was looking at it, this shows that there are some gambit situations where moves like a3 are called for. 
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #119 - 02/23/11 at 10:15:28
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Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 06:38:10:
That said, had my opponents played the critical lines in their  games, I would have included them. So I do not understand where your perception of "shitty attitude" comes from.

An honest author doesn't wait for his opponents to look at the critical lines, he tries to find them himself. And if I can find them in a few seconds (I did while reading the introduction of the first part of your article, even without a board) you certainly can too. Which means that you haven't made any effort, which is confirmed by your last two posts.
That's a shitty attitude for an author on chess openings, especially for one who has years of experience on the subject and boasts that he knows more of it than a certain titled author.

Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 06:38:10:
Next, you pointed out that it took 2 years to get the article. I stated for the record why it took so long. And yes, I kept my word.

So you do mind or you wouldn't continue on this subject. Well, that's your problem.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #118 - 02/23/11 at 06:38:10
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It must be repeat, pointed out that I based my article on the games that were played at the time. So as an author, I did my job. You, my dear sir, are talking to a former Executive Editor of the Rutgers-Newark Observer, the student newspaper of Rutgers University, Newark campus. I know quite a bit about reporting, thank you very much. That said, had my opponents played the critical lines in their  games, I would have included them. So I do not understand where your perception of "shitty attitude" comes from.

Next, you pointed out that it took 2 years to get the article. I stated for the record why it took so long. And yes, I kept my word.

Last, Gutman's recommendation looks good enough to me. Whether it is the best line is something only time will tell. Who knows, maybe there are other lines, just waiting to be discovered.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #117 - 02/23/11 at 01:56:04
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Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
I should point out two things. First, I did try sending you the article by email a couple of times, but your computer never got it! I finally resent it, and you received it, MNb.
Which is weird, as nobody else has ever complained about it. Never mind, my purpose was to point out that you kept your word.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
If they did not find the "critical" moves, why, that is their problem.
In a game, yes. For an author this is a shitty attitude.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
However, briefly, I must agree with Lev Gutman's ideas of playing versus ...c6 as stated here earlier.
So we in the end agree that 4...c6 5.Bc4 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.Bg5 a la Gutman is White's best chance?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #116 - 02/23/11 at 00:42:12
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I just think that slow moves like a3 are pretty silly when you're a pawn down in exchange for a surplus of activity.  In that situation, you really have to depress the accelerator pedal and get your pieces out and maximize your threats.  You have to inflict some damage, force some compromises, before your opponent catches up in activity.  I'm sure that Lev the chess player knows this very well.  I think that Lev the BDG advocate has led him into some strange reasoning, but that in fact, Lev the player knows pretty well how to play gambit positions.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #115 - 02/22/11 at 20:51:35
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I should point out two things. First, I did try sending you the article by email a couple of times, but your computer never got it! I finally resent it, and you received it, MNb.

Second, the article in BDG World #79 (August-October 1997), was based on the games that I played at the time (1995-1997). I listed the moves that my opponents made, then and there.
If they did not find the "critical" moves, why, that is their problem. Sure, I have  come up with some improvements since then. Of course, I will not reveal all my trumps at the moment. However, briefly, I must agree with Lev Gutman's ideas of playing versus ...c6 as stated here earlier.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #114 - 02/22/11 at 20:37:48
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Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
I published plenty of articles with materials that were not included in the Blackmar-Diemer gambit book. These include the following:

Ziegler Defence:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 c6 6 a3

O'Kelly Defense:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 a3

The article under discussion is Defeating the Ziegler, O'Kelly, Teichmann Defenses and Caro-Kann Transpositions with a3!  published in Blackmar-Diemer Gambit World #79, August-October 1997.


This is the right moment to reveal that after two years of repeated asking LDZ has send me that article on 4...exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 6.a3, also many months ago. It's a patch of three or four articles dealing with inferior moves for Black. Critical stuff like 6...Bf5 and 6...g6 wasn't there.
So maybe LDZ could be so kind to post here how he intends to meet these two moves? Also note 4...c6 5.a3 Qa5, which is one of the key ideas of the O'Kelly move order.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #113 - 02/22/11 at 20:37:43
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According to my folders, I have games with 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 exf3 7 Qxf3 going back to 2002! Let me look at some games here:

7...Qxd4? does not work:

8 Qxb7! Be4 9 Qc8 Qd8 10 Qxd8+ Kd8 11 Ne4 Ng4 12 Bg2, 1-0, Nielsen-Christiansen, unknown (as per BDG Keybook II, 1999), but probably Norway, early 1970s.
There is another game, Nilssen-Anderssen, Grenaa, Norway, 1973.

8 Qxb7! Be4 9 Nxe4 10 Qxe4+ 10 Qxe4 Nxe4 11 Bg2!, 1-0, Zilbermints - WGM Irina Mikhailova (Umanskaya), Internet Chess Club, 4/15/2004, Game/5 minutes.

8 Qxb7 Be4 9 Nxe4 Qxe4 10 Qxe4 Nxe4 11 Bg2 Ng3 12 Rh3! 1-0, Zilbermints-Matijo, ICC 3 0 rated blitz, 21 December 2006.

8 Qxb7 Be4 9 Nxe4 Qxe4 10 Qxe4 Nxe4 11 Bg2 Ng3 12 Rh3! c6 13 Rxg3 e6 14 Bf4 1-0, Zilbermints - Heramb (WIM), Internet Chess Club, 3 1 rated blitz, 23 February 2011.

8 Qxb7! Be4 9 Bb5+ is inaccurate, though it led to a draw in 57 moves,  Zilbermints - kram777, ICC, 1/10/2003. 

7...Nc6 does not work either, as can be seen from the following games:

8 Bb5! Bxc2? 9 Bxc6 bxc6 10 Qxc6+ Nd7 11 Nb5 Rc8 12 Qxc2 e5 13 Nxa7 Ra8 14 Nc6 Qf6 15 Bg5 Qe6 16 Qe4 Ra6 17 d5 Qd6 18 Nf3 f6 19 Be3 Nb6 20 Bxb6 Rxb6 21 b4 Be7 22 00 00 23 a3 Ra8 24 Nd2 Rba6 25 Nc4 Qd7 26 Rfd1 Bd6 27 Nxd6 cxd6 28 Qf5 Qb7 29 Qe6+ Kh8 30 Qxd6 Qb6+ 31 Qc5, 1-0, Zilbermints - WITTYROGER, 5 0 rated 5 minute blitz, ICC, 15 November 2004.

8 Bb5 Qd7? 9 d5 Nxd5 10 Nxd5 000 11 Ne3 e5 12 Nf5 Kb8 13 Bxc6 bxc6 14 Be3 e4 15 Qf2 Bd6 16 000 1-0, Zilbermints - sunnyboy, 5 0 r blitz, ICC, 2004.

8 Bb5 Qd7? 9 d5 Qxg4 10 dxc6 b6 11 Qxg4 Nxg4 12 Bf4 e5 13 Bg3 Bxc2 14 Rc1 Bf5 15 Nd5 Bd6 16 Ne2 000 17 00 Bc5+ 18 Rxc5 bxc5 19 Ne7+ Kb8 20 Nxf5 g6 21 Ne7 f5 22 Nc3 Ne3 23 Re1 f4 24 Bf2 Nc2 25 Rc1 Nd4 26 Bd3 Rhe8 27 Ned5 e4 28 Bxd4 cxd4 29 Bxe4 30 Nxe4 Rxd5 31 Rd1 a6 32 Rd3 Ka7 33 Kf2 Kb6 34 Kf3 Kxc6 35 Kxf4 h6 36 Nd2 g5+ 37 hxg5 hxg5+ 38 Ke4 Kd6 39 Nc4+ Ke6 40 Rxd4 Rxd4+ 41 Kxd4 1-0, Zilbermints - VLT-fantonmen, 3 0 rated blitz, ICC, 12 November 2004.

8 Bb5 e6 9 h5 Bxc2 10 Rh2 Bb4 11 Rxc2 Qxd4 12 Be3 Qxg4 13 Bxc6+ bxc6 14 Qxc6 Ke7 15 Qxc7+ Nd7 16 Rd2 Rhd8 17 Qf4 Qxf4 18 Bxf4 Rac8 19 Nge2 Nf6 20 Bg5 h6 21 Bxf6 gxf6 22 000 Rxd2 23 Rxd2 Rg8 24 Kc2 f5 25 Nd4 Bc5 26 Nc6+ Kf6 27 b4 Be3 28 Rd3 f4 29 Nd1 Bb6 30 a4 e5 31 Nc3 Rg2+ 32 Kb3 Rd3 33 Ne4+ Kf5 34 Nxg3+ fxg3 35 Rxg3 Kf4 36 Rg7 f5 37 a5 Bf2 38 Rg6 e4 39 Rxh6 e3 40 Nd4 Ke4 41 Kc4 f4 42 Re6 mate, 1-0, Zilbermints - IM David Gross (Germany), 26 February 2004.

Back to 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6:


8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Nbd7 12 000 Qxh5 13 Qxh5 Nxh5 14 Nb5! cxb5 15 Bxb5 Nhf6 16 Rc7 Rd8 17 Bg5? a6 18 Bf1 h6 19 Bh4 g5 20 Bf2 Bg7 21 Rxb7 00 22 Bxa6 Ra8 23 Bc4 Ne5 24 Bb3 Rfc8+ 25 Kb1 Ne4 26 Be3 e6 27 Ne2 Nc4 28 Bd4 Ncd2+ 29 Ka1 Nxb3+ 30 Rxb3 Rc2 31 Bxg7 Kxg7 32 Nd4 Nd2 33 Rb7 Rd8 34 Nxe6+ Kf6 35 Nxd8 g4 36 Rxf7+ Kg5 37 Rd7 Ne4 38 Ne6+ Kf5 39 Nd4+ 1-0, Zilbermints - Zuggy, 2003.11.29. G/3 minutes Internet Chess Club

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nbd7 14 Nb5! cxb5? 15 Bxb5 Nf6 16 Ne5 Rd8 17 Nxd7 Nxd7 18 Rxd7! Rxd7 19 Rc8 mate, Zilbermints - hyde, 3 0 rated blitz, Internet Chess Club, 26 November 2002.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 e6 14 Nb5! Na6 15 Nbd4 Be7 16 Nc6! bc6 17 Ba6 00 18 Rd7 Bf6 19 Rc6 Rfd8 20 Ra7 Ra7 21 Ra7 g6 22 Rc8 Rxc8+ 23 Bc8 Nf4 24 b4 h5 25 b5 h4 26 b6 Nd3+ 27 Kd2 Nc5 28 a4 h3 29 a5 Bd8 30 a6 g5 31 b7 Na6 32 b8/Q 33 Nxb8 34 Bxb8 g4 35 Nxg4 f5 36 Nf2 Kf6 37 Nxh3 e5 38 Nf2 e4 39 Bf4 Bb6 40 Nd1 Kg6 41 Ne3, 1-0, Zilbermints - hyde (2227), ICC 3 0 rated blitz, 4 November 2002.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nbd7 13 000 e6 14 h6?? g6 15 Bg5 Be7 16 Bd3 Rd8 17 Ne4 Nxe4 18 Bxe7 Kxe7 19 Bxe4 Nb6 20 Bd3 Rd5 =+/-++ and 0-1/50, Zilbermints-hyde,
ICC, 3 0 rated blitz, 11/26/2002. The point is that 14 Nb5!! is an absolutely essential move.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7 14 Nb5!! cxb5 15 Bxb5 Kd8? Rxd7+ 1-0, Zilbermints - VLTfantonmen, 3 0 rated blitz, ICC, November 2004.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7 14 Nb5!! 000 15 Nxa7+ Kb8 16 Ne5 Nhf6 17 Nxf7 Nd5 18 Rxd5 cxd5 19 Nxd8 b6 20 Nb5 e5 21 Nc6+ Kb7 22 Nd8+ Kb8 23 Nf7 Rg8 24 Bh3 Nc5 25 b4 Nd3+ 26 Kd2 e4 27 Rc8+ Kb7 28 Nfd6+ Bxd6 29 Nxd6 Ka7 30 Rxg8 1-0, Zilbermints - DynastyX02 (2314) ICC 5 0 rated blitz, 25 February 2005.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxh5 12 000 Qxf3 13 Nxf3 e6 14 Nb5! Na6 15 Nbd4 Nd5 16 Bax6 Nxe3 17 Bxb7 Nxc2 18 Bxc6+ Ke7 19 Bxa8 Nxd4 20 Rxd4 g6 21 Be4 Bg7 22 Ra4 Rc8+ 23 Kd1 Rc7 24 b4 f5 25 Bc2 e5 26 Ra6 e4 27 Ng5 Rd7+ 28 Ke1 Bc3+ 29 Kf1 Bxb4 30 Nxh7 e3 31 Ba4 32 Rax7+ Kd6 33 Rd7+ Kc5 34 Rxd2 exd2 35 Ke2 Kd4 36 Ng5 Ke5 37 Nf3+ Ke4 38 Nxd2+ Kf4 38 Nxd2+ Kf4 39 Nf3 g5 40 Nxg5 Kxg5 41 Kf3 f4 42 Bd7 Ba5 43 a4 Bb6 44 Bg4 Ba5 45 Bh3 Bb6 46 Bg4 Ba5 47 Bh3 bb6 48 Bg4 draw, Zilbermints - vinden25, ICC 3 0 rated blitz, November 2004. 

I should mention that the line with 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3! was analyzed by me back in August/November 2002 and even earlier. The lines after 10 Be3! Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxh5 12 Qxh5 Nxh5 13 000 Nbd7 14 Nb5!! were developed by me in 2002-2005. I just kept it in my folders. But now, with Scheerer's book out, I think it necessary to share my knowledge of this line.


« Last Edit: 02/23/11 at 07:42:16 by Gambit »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #112 - 02/22/11 at 20:34:00
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ArKheiN wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:11:52:
And most of your material comes from blitz games on internet, even if it's sometimes against strong players, it's still only a blitz!


speaking of which...
spot Zilbermints 1-0 Miladinovic on page 71 Smiley
  

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