Gambit wrote on 03/21/11 at 19:31:28:

There is a small, but fine difference: Scheerer has given 11...Qxh5 12.Qxh5 Nxh5 (not as you claimed 11...Qxf3 12.Nxf3 Nxh5).
If we follow your analysis in Scheerer's move order, then after 13.000 Nd7 14.Nb5(?!) cxb5 15.Bxb5 Nf6 16.Rc7 Rd8 White has to move the Ng1 to f3 and after 17.Nf3 a6! Black has the advantage!

SWJediknight wrote on 03/22/11 at 21:36:59:

That's Sawyer's main line in his Keybook 1 (I never bothered to buy nr. 2). I am not convinced after 6...Bf5, especially because Sawyer's recommendations are not his best. After say 7.Ng3 Bg6 8.Nf3 Bb4+ 9.Bd2 Qe7+ White's play is less appealing than the Caro-Kann with 4...Bf5.

is this book actually out? Amazon is still listing as a preorder.

MNb wrote on 03/22/11 at 17:26:46:


For now I'd say that 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bc4 Bb4+! with roughly equal play or maybe 6.Bb5 which I really haven't looked at is best.

Jonathan Tait wrote on 03/22/11 at 00:27:45:


5...Nc6 was one of the improvements I found also.  Actually, to be more precise, it's a move one of my opponents showed me in a blitz game on ICC.  However, I think White's play can be improved over Scheerer's analysis in the old main line of 5.Bd3 with sufficient compensation for White.

Gambit wrote on 03/21/11 at 19:31:28:


No, 6...h6 is considered the key move by Scheerer.

6...exf3 7 Qxf3 c6 is a fairly unimportant sideline, in which Scheerer says that White has a definite initiative, even without having seen your improvement 14 Nb5! in one of the subvariations.

In any case there's a clear message (reading through the book and checking over the lines): 6.h4 is looking pretty viable for White as an ambitious alternative to 6.g5 in the Vienna Defence.   I don't think this 14.Nb5! idea changes a great deal in that respect, as Scheerer nonetheless concluded that 6...exf3 probably wasn't the most critical.  With all due respect I think the book as a whole is significantly more convincing than those UON articles that I've seen.

I've had another read through the chapter on 4...e3, and interestingly (in relation to post #155) in the 5.Bxe3 g6 line Scheerer recommends that White continues with Qd2 and 0-0-0, but also recommends that Black avoids "castling into it" and instead meets h2-h4 with ...h7-h5 and keeps the king in the middle.  It's true that the pawn on f3 makes a big difference in those "Black castles early" ...g6 lines (revising the objective assessment from "=" to "+/-") but even so, in view of this it's quite surprising that he didn't consider Black's alternatives to (4...exf3 5.Nxf3 g6) 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.  But then again, that chapter on the "Long Bogo" has achieved what the book's foreword stated (stimulating an objective debate on the subject).

Earlier, in post #113, I posted my opinion of Scheerer's analysis of the Gunderam Attack in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. That line goes:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6

Considered the key move by Scheerer.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

Now Scheerer on page 123 gives the dubious 14 Nf3? Nh6 15 Rcd2 a6! and White's edge is evaporating, while Black has 5 pawns for the piece. Methinks I posted an improvement over this weak line elsewhere here. Here is a game that shows how White must play.

Zilbermints - ocabrera
Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
21 March 2011

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rc2 Qf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

So far as in the book. Now comes the improvement.

14 Nb5!! cxb5 15 Bxb5 Nf6 16 Rc7 Rd8 17 Ne5 e6 18 Nxd7 Nxd7 19 Bxd7+ Ke7 20 Bc8+ Kf6 21 Rxd8, 1-0.

  I have known about the whole 10 Be3 - 14 Nb5! line for many years now. However, I kept it secret, until such time came to release it. With the publication of Scheerer's book, and the faulty 14 Nf3? line, the time has come to release the secret analyses and games prepared and played years ago. These date to at least 2002 !