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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NEW BDG BOOK (Read 224225 times)
Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #246 - 01/14/12 at 07:53:28
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What is wrong with avoiding the Bremer Counter-Attack with the following transposition:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Be3 ?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #245 - 01/13/12 at 14:04:47
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MNb wrote on 12/29/11 at 03:04:00:
A tricky transposition Scheerer doesn't address:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 (5.Nxe4 Bf5 6.Ng3 Bg6 is for players who love to waste a tempo in the main line of the Caro-Kann) b5 6.Bb3 exf3! and 7.Nxf3 (I don't trust 7.Qxf3 Qxd4 8.Be3 Qe5) b4 is a line Scheerer condemns via 4...exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 6.Bc4 b5 when he prefers 7.Bd3.
After 7.Bb3 b4 8.Ne2 Ba6 9.Ne5 e6 10.O-O Bd6 11.Qe1 Bxe5 12.dxe5 Ng4 White possibly can improve on Diemer's play with 13.Rf4. Black has 11...Nbd7 though and the Bishop indeed doesn't belong on b3. After 12.Nc4 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 O-O 14.Qh4 c5 15.Bd3 cxd4 16.Bg5 h6 the typical sac is even sufficient. After 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6 Qa5 White will remain an exchange down.


As far as I can see your last line (starting 11...Nbd7) leads to =+ (at least) as White's pieces are not placed on particularly active squares.  White has the intriguing 12.Nxf7!? but after 12...Kxf7 13.Nf4 Qe7! Black is again better.

Some deviations for White here:
Move 9:
a) Houdini suggests the weird 9.a3?!? bxa3 10.Rxa3 e6 11.Ra1, which I can't believe for White (why give up a tempo just to open the a-file?) Simply 11...Be7 looks good for Black.

b) 9.0-0 e6
b1) 10.Bf4 Be7 11.c4 bxc3 12.bxc3 0-0 13.c4 c5 =+
b2) 10.a3!? bxa3 11.c4 Nbd7 (11...axb2 12.Bxb2 Be7 13.Ne5 and White has strong attacking chances reminiscent of the Danish Gambit) 12.Bf4 Be7 13.bxa3 0-0 is a slight improvement on line b1, but I think Black is still a bit better as White's e2-knight is better off on c3 in similar lines (Ne4 threatens more than Nf4).

Instead of the automatic retreat 8.Ne2, 8.Ng5!? e6 (else White takes on f7, or alternatively 8...Be6?! 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Ne2 leaves White with ample structural compensation) 9.Nce4 is interesting, which at least reduces the extent to which Black can drive White back.  Some sample lines: 9...Nxe4 (9...Ba6 10.Nxf7 Kxf7 11.Ng5+ Ke8 12.Nxe6 with dangerous compensation, 9...Be7 10.Nxf7 Kxf7 11.Ng5+ Ke8 12.0-0 [12.Nxe6 Bxe6 13.Bxe6 Qd6 =+] 12...h6 13.Nxe6 Bxe6 14.Bxe6 also gives White nice attacking chances on the light squares) 10.Nxe4 Qh4+ 11.Nf2 Ba6 12.g3 Qd8 13.Be5 0-0 14.Qg4 Bf6 15.0-0-0.   I think White's chances of maintaining an initiative on the kingside are better than after 8.Ne2, though I can't be sure that White objectively has enough.
« Last Edit: 01/13/12 at 16:35:44 by SWJediknight »  
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MNb
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #244 - 01/13/12 at 10:34:11
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Gambit wrote on 01/13/12 at 05:27:55:
Don't know why they call 1 d4 d5 2 e4 the BDG. That is like calling 1 e4 e5 the King's Gambit.

Counting is difficult. The first has three plies, the second two. That's one reason why it's a false analogy.
  

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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #243 - 01/13/12 at 05:27:55
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I am in the beginning of Round 2 of the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit thematic tournament at chess.com website. I won my section, 1601 - 1800, easily enough, not losing any games.

Don't know why they call 1 d4 d5 2 e4 the BDG. That is like calling 1 e4 e5 the King's Gambit.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #242 - 01/11/12 at 12:34:27
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Scheerer's Lemberger BDG update at Chesspublishing.com suggested that all is not lost for White in the 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Qd5 7.0-0 line (though giving up on 5.Qe2, which does appear insufficient after 5...Nc6).
http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/8/may11.htm

I'll have a look at 3...Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 b5 6.Bb3 exf3 shortly as it does indeed sound critical.
  
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MNb
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #241 - 01/10/12 at 00:42:08
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Gambit wrote on 01/09/12 at 18:41:46:
Perhaps that might be the case for postal, not over-the-board, games with the BDG. I have seen very few games with the line you describe, SWJediKnight. I believe that the  line  1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Bc4 b5  is called the Bremer Counter-Attack? It is very rare.

If I can figure out that transposition anyone can, LDZ. Thanks to the Scheerer book the games Peilen-Hansen, corrr 1991 and Diemer-Stader, corr 1954 are well known.
It shows again that the BDG is in bad shape. We have a straightforward dull equalizer (3...e5) and a serious attempt to refute it (4...c6 5.Bc4 b5 6.Bb3 exf3 7.Nxf3 b4 8.Ne2 Ba6 9.Ne5 e6). Not to mention 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 b5. Of course one can keep on gambling in blitz and on our mediocre level otb games that Black won't play these lines.
In my opinion it's clear that the BDG only is attractive against the Burn Variation of the French: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3 is perhaps not as good as 5.Nxe4, but at least a serious option.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #240 - 01/10/12 at 00:29:38
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Lev, I will let pass what has gone before, but don't come here any more with games unless the games say something about theory.  Theory, not this or that player's sometimes brilliant games, is the subject of this board.

So unless your game bears on theory, post it in General Chess.  Don't bother arguing about it, either.  That is the rule.

Moreover, STOP drawing distinctions between postal and OTB.  There is no postal theory; there is no blitz theory; there is only theory.  Postal vs. blitz vs. 45 in 2 is a PRACTICAL consideration, not a THEORETICAL one.  So any time you want to talk about postal vs. whatever else, just remember to put it in General Chess.  Not here.
  

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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #239 - 01/09/12 at 18:41:46
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Perhaps that might be the case for postal, not over-the-board, games with the BDG. I have seen very few games with the line you describe, SWJediKnight. I believe that the  line  1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Bc4 b5  is called the Bremer Counter-Attack? It is very rare.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #238 - 01/09/12 at 16:12:37
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I think MNb's suggestion above (1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 b5!? 6.Bb3 exf3) could well develop into a critical test of the Blackmar-Diemer, given that 5...exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.Bg5 e6 (7...Nbd7 8.Qe2 and 9.0-0-0) 8.Nh4 seems to give White enough compensation.

In my opinion the biggest problem with 5.Nxe4 is 5...e5 (5...Bf5 6.Bd3 Qxd4 7.Ne2 is interesting, if not necessarily completely sound, but 5...Nxe4 6.fxe4 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 and 5...Nbd7 are good equalisers), which forces considerable simplification.  A glance at the 5...e5 lines was enough to put me off 5.Nxe4 for good.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #237 - 01/09/12 at 16:03:29
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tbh. I think that the BDG is sound, at least from a human perspective, if you would give Rybka/Houdini white with the BDG against the top 10 players of the world, it would win 10-0.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #236 - 01/09/12 at 00:11:51
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Suggest you look at my revision.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #235 - 01/08/12 at 16:01:00
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Gambit wrote on 01/07/12 at 23:29:56:
Why don't you post a few well-played GM blitz games with important theoretical moves?

The criticism is that yóú don't that. Just posting games - some with an opening that doesn't even belong here - contributes nothing to the content of the site. Restrict yourself to the subject of the thread (in this case the BDG), explain what the relevance of the game is, indicate some possible improvements and everybody will be happy.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #234 - 01/07/12 at 23:29:56
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I am taking the time to respond to all the criticisms. Let me address them in a point-by-point order.

First, I should apologize that my post took up so much blank space. You see, it was reformatted from another website, "Jim West on Chess." I published the Philidor Counter Gambit game there; however, copying and pasting resulted in the post you saw.

Thus, I re-posted the message with blank spaces removed. I would ask Markovich to delete the original long post and keep this one.

Second, the question is raised as to the theoretical value of Internet Chess Club blitz games. To this I respond that no less an eminent chess magazine than New In Chess regularly includes blitz games in theoretical articles. So, one can see that ICC is an excellent testing and proving ground for possible theoretical novelties. I remind you that the famous Dos Hermanas tournaments on ICC are of the blitz format. They have grandmasters, international masters, FIDE masters regularly playing. Thus, this gives credibility and respect to the moves the titled players make in blitz games.

In blitz, you get far less time than in normal chess. Decisions must be made lightning-fast. Thus, if a move can be found in these conditions and withstand scrutiny, it is well-suited for normal chess. Also, there are plenty of examples of players making blunders in regular chess, but finding the correct move in blitz.

Third, I would like to thank Jupp for his support. I definitely can post a lot of wins over titled players in blitz on ICC. How about a few beating GM Hikaru Nakamura? Or beating some GM or IM in a simultaneous exhibition, with long time control?

What is wrong with people who don't like my blitz games? Would you have us return to a time before chess clocks were invented, circa 1858, when games could last hours? Morphy had games that lasted 15 hours. This is 2012, people, not 1851.

Why don't you post a few well-played GM blitz games with important theoretical moves? That should make it fair. But oh no, you choose to criticize me for posting nice wins over titled players. That's weird, really.

Huh

Zilbermintz - IM (now Grandmaster) Trickyguy

Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
1 April 2009

BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT

1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6  

Euwe Defense 

6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 0-0 8 00 c5 9 Qe1 cxd4 10 Ne2 Nc6 11 Qh4 g6 12 a3 Nd5 13 Qh6 e5 14 Ng3 Nf4 15 Bxf4 exf4 16 Nh5! Bf6 17 Ng5! 1-0.

As we can see, even Grandmasters can make mistakes. Perhaps instead of 8...c5, Black should try 8...Re8 with the idea 9...Bf8. In some games I have played, Black tried 8...Nbd7 9 Qe1 Re8 10 Qh4 Nf8. Trouble is, this is a very passive line. It is known as the Kuehne Variation of the Euwe Defense.  K. was the player who first played this line, back in 1960.

Then again, Grandmasters don't expect the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit!
« Last Edit: 01/08/12 at 18:46:43 by Gambit »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #233 - 01/07/12 at 13:05:06
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Markovich wrote on 01/07/12 at 02:33:39:

Besides which, you have to wonder how many "See GM X tear my head off" threads there would be if all the truth were told.


I'd seriously like to see Gambit post something like this. But this is probably contrary to human nature.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #232 - 01/07/12 at 02:33:39
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But seriously, let's have no more of these "See me win against GM X" posts. Unless these wins shed light on theory, they have scant relevance here. Put them in General Chess.

Besides which, you have to wonder how many "See GM X tear my head off" threads there would be if all the truth were told.

So back to the topic.
  

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