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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NEW BDG BOOK (Read 223238 times)
SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #36 - 02/23/09 at 19:29:16
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People graded below 2000 get better compensation because at those levels, attack tends to be easier than defence, and so Black misplays the position more than White does.  Above 2000, defensive techniques improve and so White finds it harder to generate good compensation.

Even wholly sound gambits, e.g. the Evans, or the Two Knights' Defence for Black with 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5, score better for the gambiteer at lower levels than at higher levels.

The BDG scores phenomenally well on the databases, so regardless of its objective soundness (which even I can't vouch for), it works well as a winning weapon at the mean level of play in those databases.  You don't always win by playing the objectively best moves, but rather by playing the moves that most unsettle your opponent.
  
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Uruk
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #35 - 02/23/09 at 17:58:12
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What's more, nobody answered my antidote in the other thread.
  
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drkodos
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #34 - 02/23/09 at 17:44:09
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Dragonslayer wrote on 02/23/09 at 16:26:43:
drkodos wrote on 02/23/09 at 14:35:38:
flaviddude wrote on 02/22/09 at 23:51:10:
 
Statistically the BDG scores very well- you'll only find trouble getting compensation for the pawn if you significantly exceed 2000 Elo, I reckon.



This must be my problem.


Interesting that people below 2000 get better compensation than those above 2000 in the exact same position.   This is a very cool phenomena that I did not realize existed in chess.

What opening can I play as above 2000+ that will give me compensation while not allowing those under 2000+ to have it?



Why don't you try the Volga/Benkö gambit with Black.



I played it for 20 years from 1986 to 2006 and maintain the positional compensation in any given Benko is the same for players of any rating.

The position is the position is the position.  Rating level does not change the level of compensation in a position.  It may effect a players ability to understand and exploit said "compensation", but that's about the extent of it.

And I further maintain that any opening that is good below 2000 and not good above 2000 is a most dubious opening, bordering on unsound, as defined my modern Chess Praxis, which seem to be based on the play of people that know what they are doing instead of patzers.


The arguments proffered by BDG Alchemists are just bizarro and are true in some Non-Euclidian reality that I have never visited, but they do not seem to apply to the world in which I am currently spending most of time......
  

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Dragonslayer
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #33 - 02/23/09 at 16:26:43
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drkodos wrote on 02/23/09 at 14:35:38:
flaviddude wrote on 02/22/09 at 23:51:10:
 
Statistically the BDG scores very well- you'll only find trouble getting compensation for the pawn if you significantly exceed 2000 Elo, I reckon.



This must be my problem.


Interesting that people below 2000 get better compensation than those above 2000 in the exact same position.   This is a very cool phenomena that I did not realize existed in chess.

What opening can I play as above 2000+ that will give me compensation while not allowing those under 2000+ to have it?



Why don't you try the Volga/Benkö gambit with Black.
  
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drkodos
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #32 - 02/23/09 at 14:35:38
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flaviddude wrote on 02/22/09 at 23:51:10:
 
Statistically the BDG scores very well- you'll only find trouble getting compensation for the pawn if you significantly exceed 2000 Elo, I reckon.



This must be my problem.


Interesting that people below 2000 get better compensation than those above 2000 in the exact same position.   This is a very cool phenomena that I did not realize existed in chess.

What opening can I play as above 2000+ that will give me compensation while not allowing those under 2000+ to have it?

  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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flaviddude
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #31 - 02/22/09 at 23:51:10
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SWJediknight wrote on 02/09/09 at 18:15:44:
In my opinion it's probably better to use the Blackmar-Diemer as a part of your repertoire alongside other openings.  There's a temptation to try to get it in nearly every game (which is possible, as ArKheiN points out) but as with any opening, playing just the BDG all the time gives a limited range of positions.



I totally agree. The BDG is a good bolt on addition to a repertoire built on 1.e4 as white.

First black can avoid the BDG by transposing to the french or Caro-Kann. As a 1.e4 player you need to know how to play against these openings.

Secondly you can unleash the BDG if you know that your opponent lways answers 1.d4 with 1..d5. 

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Alongside one or two other 1.d4 lines, though, I don't see a problem with using it.  I personally use a different approach- I play 1.e4, but sometimes transpose to the BDG from 1.e4 openings (eg 1.e4 d5 2.d4, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3).  It can even be used against some lines of the French (e.g. 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3; also 3.Be3 dxe4 4.f3 is playable)


I have used these transpositions many times. I have a BDG Caro-kann hybrid in a current correspondence game so I will not comment on this line. I have not achieved consistent results with 3.Be3 against the French

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I don't think you need to learn much theory- at least not at club level- as the ideas are pretty easy to grasp.
 
Statistically the BDG scores very well- you'll only find trouble getting compensation for the pawn if you significantly exceed 2000 Elo, I reckon. [/quote]

On this point I totally disagree. There are several repertoire books that give antidotes to the BDG. If white is not prepared with suitable counter measures he can get smashed. This happened to me when an opponent sprung one of these lines against me. His elo is about 2000 an rising fast and he was third equal in the Australian Open.   
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #30 - 02/09/09 at 18:15:44
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In my opinion it's probably better to use the Blackmar-Diemer as a part of your repertoire alongside other openings.  There's a temptation to try to get it in nearly every game (which is possible, as ArKheiN points out) but as with any opening, playing just the BDG all the time gives a limited range of positions.

Alongside one or two other 1.d4 lines, though, I don't see a problem with using it.  I personally use a different approach- I play 1.e4, but sometimes transpose to the BDG from 1.e4 openings (eg 1.e4 d5 2.d4, 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.f3).  It can even be used against some lines of the French (e.g. 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3; also 3.Be3 dxe4 4.f3 is playable)

I don't think you need to learn much theory- at least not at club level- as the ideas are pretty easy to grasp.  The most popular approach is indeed 0-0 Qe1-h4, and as Tim McGrew mentions, sacrifices on h6 (after Bg5, Qh4, ...h6, Bxh6) are common as well, as in practice Black often puts the question to the white bishop at an inopportune moment.  The g-pawn push is also common.  If Black does not play ...h6, then h7 is often an important attack point, and the rook on the f-file opens up possibilities of Rxf6 sacrifices followed by crashing in on h7.

I often use an alternative approach of queenside castling, and playing for the d4-d5 push as well as on the kingside (it has the disadvantage of not utilising the f-file as strongly and harder to play Qe1-h4, but it makes the kingside pawns more free to roll at the enemy king).  In my experience it's especially effective against the ...g7-g6 lines, when the h-pawn push is effective, but maybe less so against ...Bf5 lines.

Statistically the BDG scores very well- you'll only find trouble getting compensation for the pawn if you significantly exceed 2000 Elo, I reckon.
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #29 - 02/09/09 at 14:11:31
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If you play 1.d4 d5 2.e4 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3, you will get a BDG accepted at least 80% of the time (I speak from experience after maybe 1000 blitz, 100 corr games and 20 OTB). I have to say that my results are really fair for a "refuted" opening Wink

You should learn the mating paterns against the 5..e6 (Euwe defense) and 5.. g6 (Bogoljubov defense) with 0-0 Qe1-h4 and attack on h7+elimination of defense of h7, and how to develop with tempo using the position of the Bishop g4 or f5 and Nf6 vulnerable to the push g4-g5 while hitting the f7 weakness, with the most popular move (5..Bg4) and it's cousin 5..Bf5. Watch some of Leisebein's game, here is his website http://holgererbe.gmxhome.de/dvc/englisch/theo.html with 70 of his commented games, go there, it's wonderful, that's like that I begin to study the BDG and liking it. Always keep pressure, be active and exchange a piece only if you have a good reason to do it.
Try it on blitz first after having watched some games and enjoy it!
  
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Meat
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #28 - 02/09/09 at 12:07:16
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Some questions for BDG players:

I want to try out this gambit in order to improve my tactics. What is the best way to learn this opening, and does it require a lot of theory? Any good books, maybe?
And how often can you actually get a BDG? If many players choose to decline of enter a sideline, then I might find it easier to get tactical positions with another opening.
  
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dmp4373
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #27 - 02/09/09 at 04:10:12
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Here is a quote from the book THE PIRC IN BLACK AND WHITE [b]"The Pirc may not be adequate for super-GMs.... the elite players consider it too generous to White."

And here is another quote, "Below master level all openings are playable." Kasparov

The BDG has strong advocates because it has a niche in competitive chess where it can be played successfully. Has it ever occured to you that if BDGers weren't winning regularly with it, they wouldn't continue playing it?

Who do you think would win this match; Kasparov vs IM A. Martin with Kasparov playing the White side of the BDG? If you believe the BDG is completely unsound, certainly you'd have to pick Martin. But would you be willing to bet your house and bank account on it?
[/b]
  
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ArKheiN
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #26 - 02/08/09 at 17:38:09
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It's hard to assess every positions of the Zilbermints gambits. I think it's unsound but Black must be cautious. For example: 1. d4 Nf6 2. f3 d5 3. e4 dxe4 4. Nc3 exf3 5. Nxf3 e6 6. Bg5 Be7 7. Bd3 Nc6 8. O-O Nxd4 9. Kh1 c5 10. Ne5 O-O 11. Qe1 Nd5 12. Bxe7 Qxe7 13. Ng3 f6 14. Ng6! is arealdy better for White. But ok Black may have improved somewhere, but even a computer don't see that strong 14.Ng6 immediately. 9..c5 is probably playable.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #25 - 02/08/09 at 16:21:06
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SWJediknight wrote on 02/07/09 at 20:38:47:
The gambit with 8.0-0 offers practical chances, I don't deny that, but the line with 8...Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 doesn't give White enough compensation.  We've discussed the Euwe on other threads and the general consensus was that 7.Qd2 first was better.


Instead of 9..c6, is 9..c5 playable?  It looks loosening, but does White have a way in?
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #24 - 02/07/09 at 20:38:47
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See my analysis on the other thread- I cannot believe that 3...f5 is Black's best move, as it tends to transpose to the Staunton Gambit which is sound enough, if insufficient for advantage against best play.

Looking over Lev's post, perhaps I should get 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bg4 4.Be2 h5 (which I played a few times at online blitz) named after me.  Or at least Lev seems to like naming every move he plays after himself if it doesn't already have a name.

The gambit with 8.0-0 offers practical chances, I don't deny that, but the line with 8...Nxd4 9.Kh1 c6 doesn't give White enough compensation.  We've discussed the Euwe on other threads and the general consensus was that 7.Qd2 first was better.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #23 - 02/07/09 at 20:24:07
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Gambit wrote on 02/07/09 at 04:35:23:
Here is what I play against the following lines.

I. 5...e6, Euwe Defense

6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3  and now if 7...Nc6 then 8 00! the Zilbermints Gambit


Ok, I'll bite.  What happens on 8..Nxd4?
  
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drkodos
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #22 - 02/07/09 at 20:07:20
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IM Christoph Wisnewski wrote on 02/07/09 at 20:03:19:
drkodos wrote on 02/07/09 at 19:52:03:
What do you play against 3. ...f5?

Why it seems always the good moves for Black just complete ignored?


In that aspect I am sure you will find my book quite refreshing.


I look forward to purchasing it, using it and perhaps learning something from it (I am sure I will!).

How can we get you to maybe next look at King's Gambit?  Smiley
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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