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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NEW BDG BOOK (Read 166797 times)
fling
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #276 - 07/12/15 at 05:58:42
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Why let White take the bishop on g6 (I think Black is better after that also, though)? 12...Bf5 is clearly better for Black. Maybe 10...Nd5 would be ok as well. Anyway, after 12...Bf5, with ...h6 and ...Nbd7 coming up.  It looks like a traditional Caro-Kann/Scandinavian pawn structure but with an extra pawn for Black. Next up is ...c5 and bringing a rook to the centre. Where is White's compensation?
  
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #275 - 07/11/15 at 23:50:51
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According to the game score, Go - Donchenko continued 9 Ne2 c5 10 c3 h6 11 Nxe6 fxe6 12 Nf4 Bf7 13 Be6 Be6 14 Ne6 Qb6

In the game Benjamin Go - Alexander Donchenko, Groningen 2013, White could have received a long-lasting initiative after 15 Rxf6! gxf6 16 Qh5+ Kd7 17 Qf7 Be7 18 d5 Nc6 19 dc6 Qc6 20 Bf4 Rag8 21 g3 Re8 22 Nc7 Kc8, etc.

Instead, 15 Qe2?! as played in the game, is evaluated as 0.00 by my chess engine. White went on to lose because he did not attack ferociously enough. This is the whole point of the Ng5 - line!

And yes, I do have a solution. After 9 Ne2 Bd6 10 Bf4! exchanges the Bd6 and uses the Ne2-f4 maneuver to put pressure on the Kingside. I won some games after something like  10...00 11 Bd6 Qd6 12 Nf4 Nbd7 13 Nxg6 hxg6 14 c3  with an upcoming Qe1 - Qh4 maneuver.

Will post some ICC  games once I locate them.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #274 - 07/11/15 at 20:58:32
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Maybe 9. Ne2 Bd6 10. Nf4 Bxf4 11. Bxf4 (and Black is better after 11...0-0!)?

The other moves have been 9. Bxe6?, 9. Be3 and 9. Re1. White has 2 draws against 10 Black wins in the Chessbase online database (4 correspondence games, the rest long time control). Avrukh's conclusion is that there is nothing for White at all in this very variation. I can't say I disagree, and haven't seen any other analysis that should overturn the verdict.

But of course Gambit has some based on ICC blitz games?
  
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #273 - 07/11/15 at 20:24:31
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What exactly did White play after 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 Nf6 6 Bc4 Bf5 7 00 e6 8 Ng5 Bg6 ? I would like to see some of the game scores. Did White play inaccurately somewhere?

When I play these lines in blitz at the Internet Chess Club, I win far more than I lose. Yes, the time control is less, but I also likely play better moves.

In the game Benjamin Go - Alexander Donchenko, Groningen 2013, White could have received a long-lasting initiative after 15 Rxf6! gxf6 16 Qh5+ Kd7 17 Qf7 Be7 18 d5 Nc6 19 dc6 Qc6 20 Bf4 Rag8 21 g3 Re8 22 Nc7 Kc8, etc.

Instead, 15 Qe2?! as played in the game, is evaluated as 0.00 by my chess engine. White went on to lose because he did not attack ferociously enough. This is the whole point of the Ng5 - line!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #272 - 05/25/15 at 17:15:04
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HagenWatch1 wrote on 04/14/15 at 19:31:56:
Edit: just checked the dates. Looks like the Schandorff book on the Caro Kann line against the BDG Gambit came out in 2010. The Scheerer book on the BDG came out in 2011. Looks like the Schandorff book on the Caro Kann line against the BDG may be out of date and needs a refresh to deal with the new line.


I found 5 tournament games since 2012 with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bf5 6.Bc4 e6 7.O-O Nf5 8.Ng5 Bg6.

Black won all of them. Also found 4 correspondence games and black won all of them. Maybe that's why Schandorff did not mention this line?
« Last Edit: 05/25/15 at 19:51:55 by erasmus_b_dragon »  

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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #271 - 05/08/15 at 17:24:45
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That is correct. The Rat is the 1970s name for the Modern.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #270 - 05/04/15 at 02:55:05
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The Rat is the Modern.  As far as I know, the nickname is associated with the creative/eccentric Canadian grandmaster Duncan Suttles.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #269 - 05/04/15 at 02:43:58
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TonyRo wrote on 04/15/15 at 13:25:10:
Wait...you play the Rat in lieu of the possibility to face the BDG in like, what, 1 out of every 20 games as Black?

Shocked

Well, maybe I'm quoting the wrong opening. The Rat is the Pirc, correct? So, no...I don't play the Pirc. I play the Modern Defence. This way I don't have to worry about e5 moves kicking the knight on f6.

As for my opening choice as Black...I'm getting lazy. I'm comfortable with g6 lines against practically anything White throws at me. I mean, if my opponent is booked up on the Four Knights Game...I certainly don't plan on remembering lines to the Rubinstein variation! Or playing the Quaade line in the King's Gambit should White try that if I play 1...e5.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #268 - 05/04/15 at 02:11:40
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Yeah, the Rat is named that way for a reason. What does the rat do? Hide from the big bad cat! So here you have 1...g6 to avoid all the fun!

And yes, the Scharndorff book is outdated.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #267 - 04/15/15 at 15:56:03
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I wish I had the BDG in 1/20 games as Black!
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #266 - 04/15/15 at 13:25:10
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Wait...you play the Rat in lieu of the possibility to face the BDG in like, what, 1 out of every 20 games as Black?

Shocked
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #265 - 04/14/15 at 19:31:56
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Correct me if I'm wrong here but I looked through the Lars Schandorff book on the Caro Kann by Quality Chess and on page 236 he offers a line to deal with the BDG Gambit. But I'm curious to know if his suggestion works because the one he offers is the old Main Line against the Ziegler Defense with 7/8.Ne5. As far as I can tell he doesn't mention the newer line that White has his/her disposal...which is 8.Ng5 which is mentioned in the Scheerer book. Could that be because the Schandorff book on the Caro Kann came out eariler than the Scheerer book on the BDG Gambit? I don't know the publication dates.

Edit: just checked the dates. Looks like the Schandorff book on the Caro Kann line against the BDG Gambit came out in 2010. The Scheerer book on the BDG came out in 2011. Looks like the Schandorff book on the Caro Kann line against the BDG may be out of date and needs a refresh to deal with the new line.

It's for this reason I no longer use the Caro Kann Defense as Black...because I don't want to face the BDG Gambit. I'll stick to the Rat/Modern Defense.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #264 - 01/13/13 at 17:02:01
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I agee with everything negative about the BDG, but guess what I still love to play it.  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
  
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Gambit
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #263 - 08/13/12 at 10:56:12
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Gambit wrote on 08/10/12 at 22:00:01:
In checking with the computer, I found that Scheerer's analyses of the Kampars Gambit line gives inferior moves for White at critical points. How so? Judge for yourself:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Nd5  6 g5 Nd5  7 fxe4 Nxc3 8 bxc3 e5 9 Nf3 ed4 10 cd Bb1+   11 Bd2 Bxd2+  12 Qd2 Be4 13 Qe3 Qe7 14 Re1! 
rather than the clearly inferior 14 Kf2?

8...e5 9 Qd3 ed4 10 cxd4 c5 11 d5 Bd6 12 Bg2 00 13 Ne2 Re8 14 00 Qc7 15 Bf4! c4 16 Qd4 Be5 =

Scheerer only gives 15 Ng3? c4 16 Qf3 Nd7 "and White is strategically busted."  The critical improvement is 15 Bf4! found by my computer. For the pawn, White has a strong center, piece activity and pressure.

I believe there are other improvements in Scheerer's book, around move 12 or later, just waiting to be found.


Correction:  A) 10...Bb4+ 11 Bd2 Bd2 12 Qd2 Be4 13 Qe3 Qe7 14 Kf2 Bd5 15 Re1! Qxe3+ 16 Rxe3 Kf8 17 Bg2 Nc6 18 Rb1 Rb8 19 Ne5 Nxe5 20 Rxe5 Bxg2 21 Kxg2 c6  22 Ra5 = according to the computer.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #262 - 08/12/12 at 14:43:58
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It would certainly be helpful if Gambit, so stridently critical while posting of others' perceived errors, were to post the correct moves.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #261 - 08/11/12 at 10:30:44
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@Gambit: I cannot follow your idea in the first line of your last post. There are several mistakes in the notation and 14. Re1! is not possible. Please correct to help me understand your idea.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #260 - 08/11/12 at 02:34:54
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Markovich wrote on 08/11/12 at 01:26:54:
Gambit, Bookup is not a computer, nor is it even a chess engine. It's a chess spreadsheet that can plug into certain engines. Please get this right, otherwise you mislead innocents here.


Indeed:

Bookup/ChessOpening Wizard (COW) and Chess Position Trainer (CPT) are chess opening trainers. To help you build, maintain, memorise your repertoire.

Fritz, Stockfish, Houdini, Crafty etc are chess playing engines. For playing chess. For analyzing chess.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #259 - 08/11/12 at 01:26:54
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Gambit, Bookup is not a computer, nor is it even a chess engine. It's a chess spreadsheet that can plug into certain engines. Please get this right, otherwise you mislead innocents here.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #258 - 08/11/12 at 01:17:47
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*Pointless and rude reply with no chess content removed (NB not Gambit's)*

And thank you Gambit for being more polite with the second post. Keep posts like this, all is good.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #257 - 08/10/12 at 22:00:01
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In checking with the computer, I found that Scheerer's analyses of the Kampars Gambit line gives inferior moves for White at critical points. How so? Judge for yourself:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Nd5  6 g5 Nd5  7 fxe4 Nxc3 8 bxc3 e5 9 Nf3 ed4 10 cd Bb1+   11 Bd2 Bxd2+  12 Qd2 Be4 13 Qe3 Qe7 14 Re1! 
rather than the clearly inferior 14 Kf2?

8...e5 9 Qd3 ed4 10 cxd4 c5 11 d5 Bd6 12 Bg2 00 13 Ne2 Re8 14 00 Qc7 15 Bf4! c4 16 Qd4 Be5 =

Scheerer only gives 15 Ng3? c4 16 Qf3 Nd7 "and White is strategically busted."  The critical improvement is 15 Bf4! found by my computer. For the pawn, White has a strong center, piece activity and pressure.

I believe there are other improvements in Scheerer's book, around move 12 or later, just waiting to be found.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #256 - 08/10/12 at 13:38:57
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*Wearing Mod Hat*

@Gambit: fair enough you disagree, but please use more polite language in doing so.
This is your warning. Any more rudeness, posts will be edited or simply deleted.
This is a civilised place folks. Let's keep it friendly.

Gambit wrote on 08/10/12 at 13:03:57:
I was looking at Scheerer's book yet again. He gives lousy analyses of the Kampars Gambit in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. To wit:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 g5 Nd5 7 fxe4 Nxc3 8 bxc3 g6 9 Nf3 g6 10 Qe2 Bc6 11 Bg2 Bg7 12 00?

This is the kind of lousy analyses that loses games. You can find it in Scheerer, page 127, note "b". However, E.J. Diemer suggests 12 Ba3! in BDG World, Vol. 3, No. 3, May/June 1985.

The computer agrees. After 12 Ba3 Qd7 13 000 00 14 Kb1 Qe6 15 Rhe1 Bd5 16 Ne5 Bg2 (16...Ba2 Kb2 Bd5 18 Be7 Rc8 = ) 17 Qg2 Bxe5 = the position is level.

  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #255 - 08/10/12 at 13:03:57
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I was looking at Scheerer's book yet again. He gives lousy analyses of the Kampars Gambit in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. To wit:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 g5 Nd5 7 fxe4 Nxc3 8 bxc3 g6 9 Nf3 g6 10 Qe2 Bc6 11 Bg2 Bg7 12 00?

This is the kind of lousy analyses that loses games. You can find it in Scheerer, page 127, note "b". However, E.J. Diemer suggests 12 Ba3! in BDG World, Vol. 3, No. 3, May/June 1985.

The computer agrees. After 12 Ba3 Qd7 13 000 00 14 Kb1 Qe6 15 Rhe1 Bd5 16 Ne5 Bg2 (16...Ba2 Kb2 Bd5 18 Be7 Rc8 = ) 17 Qg2 Bxe5 = the position is level.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #254 - 02/22/12 at 01:14:06
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Of course it was. In fact, I analyzed this line on 12 December 2011 with my BOOKUP 2000 computer. Long story short, the computer said Black could draw this on move 23. But as we all know, there is a big difference between a human and a computer!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #253 - 02/18/12 at 18:16:41
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12...dxc3 was a moderately obvious mistake, was it not?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #252 - 02/18/12 at 16:33:01
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Of late, some people have written that 9...c5 is a so-called refutation of my gambit against the Euwe Defense in the BDG. I have had the pleasant experience of playing against it in correspondence chess on the chess.com website. Time control was 1 move in 3 days. Here is the game.

Zilbermints - Lakisky
chess.com correspondence, 2012
1 move in 3 days time control

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1 c5
10 Bxf6 gf6 11 Nxd4 cxd4 12 Qh5! dxc3 13 Bb5+ Bd7 14 Rad1 Kf8 15 Rxd7 Qb6 16 Qh6+ Kg8 17 Rf3 Bd6 18 Qxf6, Black resigns
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #251 - 01/17/12 at 04:58:01
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Maybe Diebert should have tried the Bc4 line?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #250 - 01/16/12 at 17:08:33
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SWJediknight wrote on 01/16/12 at 10:35:29:
if I were White here I would probably try out 5.Bc4 b5 (I am yet to face this in a game) 6.Bb3 exf3 7.Nxf3 b4 8.Ng5.

I have looked a bit at this idea and I tend to agree with you.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #249 - 01/16/12 at 10:35:29
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After 3...c6 4.f3 e5 Tim McGrew recommended 5.Be3, with the idea 5...Nf6 6.Bc4, though Black might have a small edge after 6...Nbd7.  Black's b8-knight may be blocked after 5.dxe5 Qxd1+ 6.Nxd1 (6.Kxd1 exf3 7.Nxf3 Bg4 may concede an edge to Black) but 6...Nd7 7.f4 is hardly exciting for White.  Overall, White is probably better off with 4.Bc4 as it takes the sting out of 4...e5 and doesn't give Black any additional options.

In the O'Kelly Defence line 5.Be3 exf3 6.Qxf3 Qb6 7.Rb1 Bg4, 8.Qg3 is probably an improvement on Diebert's 8.Qf2, as it prevents 8...Nd5.  However after a continuation such as 8...Nbd7 9.Bd3 e6 10.Nge2 c5 11.0-0 Bd6 12.Qh4 Bxe2 13.Nxe2 0-0, I'm not sure that White has enough for the pawn.  White does have the bishop-pair, but Black is quite active.  It's true that White doesn't appear to stand too badly after 6.Nxf3 e6 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.Qe2 Bd6 9.0-0-0, but 6...Bf5 is indeed a problem (e.g. 7.Nh4 Bg4 8.Qd2 Nbd7, or 7.Bd3 Bxd3 8.Qxd3 e6 9.0-0-0 Nbd7, and White's e3-bishop would be better off on g5 here).

Stefan Bucker's original reason for rejecting 5.Be3 was 5...Bf5 6.fxe4 Nxe4, as in the Vienna Defence White most often plays Bf4 rather than Be3 (and 6.g4 Bg6 appears to have a similar objection).  I can't see an improvement over this for White.

Having looked over these lines, if I were White here I would probably try out 5.Bc4 b5 (I am yet to face this in a game) 6.Bb3 exf3 7.Nxf3 b4 8.Ng5.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #248 - 01/14/12 at 16:55:18
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SWJediknight wrote on 01/14/12 at 11:10:36:
5...exf3 6.Nxf3 e6 also looks good for Black as the bishop normally belongs on g5 in the Euwe Defence.

I happily disagree. In the Euwe Defence Black's counterplay is often based on ...c7-c5. With the pawn on c6 Black will have to lose a tempo, which can be used for Be3-g5. Another plan for Black is the Queenside fianchetto, which works very well if Black is given the time. The pawn on c6 hinders that idea.
4...c6 5.Be3 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 and Black gets the usual Caro-Kann with an extra pawn.
6.Qxf3 might be worth a try if White can find an improvement on



Diebert,C - Ivanov,I (2495) [D00]
USA Masters Chicago (3), 1990

0-1

There is of course also the question if this idea works against the Caro-Kann: 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 Nf6 5.f3. Perhaps Black has better than 4...Nf6.
This is important because 6.Bd3 against the Ziegler might be better than 6.Bc4.
This brings me to perhaps my last point of criticism. Scheerer is quite laconic about 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 c6 4.f3, writing that "4...e5 is not as strong as before." Perhaps, but I find this hardly more inspiring than the Lemberg.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #247 - 01/14/12 at 11:10:36
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Stefan Bucker gives 5...Bf5 6.fxe4 Nxe4 (6.g4 would have the same objection) where the bishop is poorly placed on e3, giving Black an improved Vienna Defence.

5...exf3 6.Nxf3 e6 also looks good for Black as the bishop normally belongs on g5 in the Euwe Defence.  White could consider 6.Qxf3 in this line, but I don't think this particularly helps White: 6...c6 and again the bishop is a bit passive on e3.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #246 - 01/14/12 at 07:53:28
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What is wrong with avoiding the Bremer Counter-Attack with the following transposition:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Be3 ?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #245 - 01/13/12 at 14:04:47
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MNb wrote on 12/29/11 at 03:04:00:
A tricky transposition Scheerer doesn't address:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 (5.Nxe4 Bf5 6.Ng3 Bg6 is for players who love to waste a tempo in the main line of the Caro-Kann) b5 6.Bb3 exf3! and 7.Nxf3 (I don't trust 7.Qxf3 Qxd4 8.Be3 Qe5) b4 is a line Scheerer condemns via 4...exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 6.Bc4 b5 when he prefers 7.Bd3.
After 7.Bb3 b4 8.Ne2 Ba6 9.Ne5 e6 10.O-O Bd6 11.Qe1 Bxe5 12.dxe5 Ng4 White possibly can improve on Diemer's play with 13.Rf4. Black has 11...Nbd7 though and the Bishop indeed doesn't belong on b3. After 12.Nc4 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 O-O 14.Qh4 c5 15.Bd3 cxd4 16.Bg5 h6 the typical sac is even sufficient. After 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6 Qa5 White will remain an exchange down.


As far as I can see your last line (starting 11...Nbd7) leads to =+ (at least) as White's pieces are not placed on particularly active squares.  White has the intriguing 12.Nxf7!? but after 12...Kxf7 13.Nf4 Qe7! Black is again better.

Some deviations for White here:
Move 9:
a) Houdini suggests the weird 9.a3?!? bxa3 10.Rxa3 e6 11.Ra1, which I can't believe for White (why give up a tempo just to open the a-file?) Simply 11...Be7 looks good for Black.

b) 9.0-0 e6
b1) 10.Bf4 Be7 11.c4 bxc3 12.bxc3 0-0 13.c4 c5 =+
b2) 10.a3!? bxa3 11.c4 Nbd7 (11...axb2 12.Bxb2 Be7 13.Ne5 and White has strong attacking chances reminiscent of the Danish Gambit) 12.Bf4 Be7 13.bxa3 0-0 is a slight improvement on line b1, but I think Black is still a bit better as White's e2-knight is better off on c3 in similar lines (Ne4 threatens more than Nf4).

Instead of the automatic retreat 8.Ne2, 8.Ng5!? e6 (else White takes on f7, or alternatively 8...Be6?! 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.Ne2 leaves White with ample structural compensation) 9.Nce4 is interesting, which at least reduces the extent to which Black can drive White back.  Some sample lines: 9...Nxe4 (9...Ba6 10.Nxf7 Kxf7 11.Ng5+ Ke8 12.Nxe6 with dangerous compensation, 9...Be7 10.Nxf7 Kxf7 11.Ng5+ Ke8 12.0-0 [12.Nxe6 Bxe6 13.Bxe6 Qd6 =+] 12...h6 13.Nxe6 Bxe6 14.Bxe6 also gives White nice attacking chances on the light squares) 10.Nxe4 Qh4+ 11.Nf2 Ba6 12.g3 Qd8 13.Be5 0-0 14.Qg4 Bf6 15.0-0-0.   I think White's chances of maintaining an initiative on the kingside are better than after 8.Ne2, though I can't be sure that White objectively has enough.
« Last Edit: 01/13/12 at 16:35:44 by SWJediknight »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #244 - 01/13/12 at 10:34:11
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Gambit wrote on 01/13/12 at 05:27:55:
Don't know why they call 1 d4 d5 2 e4 the BDG. That is like calling 1 e4 e5 the King's Gambit.

Counting is difficult. The first has three plies, the second two. That's one reason why it's a false analogy.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #243 - 01/13/12 at 05:27:55
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I am in the beginning of Round 2 of the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit thematic tournament at chess.com website. I won my section, 1601 - 1800, easily enough, not losing any games.

Don't know why they call 1 d4 d5 2 e4 the BDG. That is like calling 1 e4 e5 the King's Gambit.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #242 - 01/11/12 at 12:34:27
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Scheerer's Lemberger BDG update at Chesspublishing.com suggested that all is not lost for White in the 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Qd5 7.0-0 line (though giving up on 5.Qe2, which does appear insufficient after 5...Nc6).
http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/8/may11.htm

I'll have a look at 3...Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 b5 6.Bb3 exf3 shortly as it does indeed sound critical.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #241 - 01/10/12 at 00:42:08
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Gambit wrote on 01/09/12 at 18:41:46:
Perhaps that might be the case for postal, not over-the-board, games with the BDG. I have seen very few games with the line you describe, SWJediKnight. I believe that the  line  1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Bc4 b5  is called the Bremer Counter-Attack? It is very rare.

If I can figure out that transposition anyone can, LDZ. Thanks to the Scheerer book the games Peilen-Hansen, corrr 1991 and Diemer-Stader, corr 1954 are well known.
It shows again that the BDG is in bad shape. We have a straightforward dull equalizer (3...e5) and a serious attempt to refute it (4...c6 5.Bc4 b5 6.Bb3 exf3 7.Nxf3 b4 8.Ne2 Ba6 9.Ne5 e6). Not to mention 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 b5. Of course one can keep on gambling in blitz and on our mediocre level otb games that Black won't play these lines.
In my opinion it's clear that the BDG only is attractive against the Burn Variation of the French: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.f3 is perhaps not as good as 5.Nxe4, but at least a serious option.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #240 - 01/10/12 at 00:29:38
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Lev, I will let pass what has gone before, but don't come here any more with games unless the games say something about theory.  Theory, not this or that player's sometimes brilliant games, is the subject of this board.

So unless your game bears on theory, post it in General Chess.  Don't bother arguing about it, either.  That is the rule.

Moreover, STOP drawing distinctions between postal and OTB.  There is no postal theory; there is no blitz theory; there is only theory.  Postal vs. blitz vs. 45 in 2 is a PRACTICAL consideration, not a THEORETICAL one.  So any time you want to talk about postal vs. whatever else, just remember to put it in General Chess.  Not here.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #239 - 01/09/12 at 18:41:46
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Perhaps that might be the case for postal, not over-the-board, games with the BDG. I have seen very few games with the line you describe, SWJediKnight. I believe that the  line  1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 c6 5 Bc4 b5  is called the Bremer Counter-Attack? It is very rare.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #238 - 01/09/12 at 16:12:37
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I think MNb's suggestion above (1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 b5!? 6.Bb3 exf3) could well develop into a critical test of the Blackmar-Diemer, given that 5...exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.Bg5 e6 (7...Nbd7 8.Qe2 and 9.0-0-0) 8.Nh4 seems to give White enough compensation.

In my opinion the biggest problem with 5.Nxe4 is 5...e5 (5...Bf5 6.Bd3 Qxd4 7.Ne2 is interesting, if not necessarily completely sound, but 5...Nxe4 6.fxe4 e5 7.Nf3 Be6 and 5...Nbd7 are good equalisers), which forces considerable simplification.  A glance at the 5...e5 lines was enough to put me off 5.Nxe4 for good.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #237 - 01/09/12 at 16:03:29
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tbh. I think that the BDG is sound, at least from a human perspective, if you would give Rybka/Houdini white with the BDG against the top 10 players of the world, it would win 10-0.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #236 - 01/09/12 at 00:11:51
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Suggest you look at my revision.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #235 - 01/08/12 at 16:01:00
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Gambit wrote on 01/07/12 at 23:29:56:
Why don't you post a few well-played GM blitz games with important theoretical moves?

The criticism is that yóú don't that. Just posting games - some with an opening that doesn't even belong here - contributes nothing to the content of the site. Restrict yourself to the subject of the thread (in this case the BDG), explain what the relevance of the game is, indicate some possible improvements and everybody will be happy.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #234 - 01/07/12 at 23:29:56
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I am taking the time to respond to all the criticisms. Let me address them in a point-by-point order.

First, I should apologize that my post took up so much blank space. You see, it was reformatted from another website, "Jim West on Chess." I published the Philidor Counter Gambit game there; however, copying and pasting resulted in the post you saw.

Thus, I re-posted the message with blank spaces removed. I would ask Markovich to delete the original long post and keep this one.

Second, the question is raised as to the theoretical value of Internet Chess Club blitz games. To this I respond that no less an eminent chess magazine than New In Chess regularly includes blitz games in theoretical articles. So, one can see that ICC is an excellent testing and proving ground for possible theoretical novelties. I remind you that the famous Dos Hermanas tournaments on ICC are of the blitz format. They have grandmasters, international masters, FIDE masters regularly playing. Thus, this gives credibility and respect to the moves the titled players make in blitz games.

In blitz, you get far less time than in normal chess. Decisions must be made lightning-fast. Thus, if a move can be found in these conditions and withstand scrutiny, it is well-suited for normal chess. Also, there are plenty of examples of players making blunders in regular chess, but finding the correct move in blitz.

Third, I would like to thank Jupp for his support. I definitely can post a lot of wins over titled players in blitz on ICC. How about a few beating GM Hikaru Nakamura? Or beating some GM or IM in a simultaneous exhibition, with long time control?

What is wrong with people who don't like my blitz games? Would you have us return to a time before chess clocks were invented, circa 1858, when games could last hours? Morphy had games that lasted 15 hours. This is 2012, people, not 1851.

Why don't you post a few well-played GM blitz games with important theoretical moves? That should make it fair. But oh no, you choose to criticize me for posting nice wins over titled players. That's weird, really.

Huh

Zilbermintz - IM (now Grandmaster) Trickyguy

Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
1 April 2009

BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT

1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 

Euwe Defense

6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 0-0 8 00 c5 9 Qe1 cxd4 10 Ne2 Nc6 11 Qh4 g6 12 a3 Nd5 13 Qh6 e5 14 Ng3 Nf4 15 Bxf4 exf4 16 Nh5! Bf6 17 Ng5! 1-0.

As we can see, even Grandmasters can make mistakes. Perhaps instead of 8...c5, Black should try 8...Re8 with the idea 9...Bf8. In some games I have played, Black tried 8...Nbd7 9 Qe1 Re8 10 Qh4 Nf8. Trouble is, this is a very passive line. It is known as the Kuehne Variation of the Euwe Defense.  K. was the player who first played this line, back in 1960.

Then again, Grandmasters don't expect the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit!
« Last Edit: 01/08/12 at 18:46:43 by Gambit »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #233 - 01/07/12 at 13:05:06
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Markovich wrote on 01/07/12 at 02:33:39:
Besides which, you have to wonder how many "See GM X tear my head off" threads there would be if all the truth were told.


I'd seriously like to see Gambit post something like this. But this is probably contrary to human nature.
  

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Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #232 - 01/07/12 at 02:33:39
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But seriously, let's have no more of these "See me win against GM X" posts. Unless these wins shed light on theory, they have scant relevance here. Put them in General Chess.

Besides which, you have to wonder how many "See GM X tear my head off" threads there would be if all the truth were told.

So back to the topic.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #231 - 01/06/12 at 20:39:53
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Gambit wrote on 01/06/12 at 16:26:36:
Okay, Markovich. I can post more games where I won against titled players.

Please don't. And please don't fill more posts with blank space and internet blitz games. Roll Eyes
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #230 - 01/06/12 at 16:26:36
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Okay, Markovich. I can post more games where I won against titled players.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #229 - 01/06/12 at 03:23:54
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Lev, don't be so modest.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #228 - 01/02/12 at 20:21:27
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Zilbermintz - IM (now Grandmaster) Trickyguy

Internet Chess Club

3 0 rated blitz

1 April 2009



BLACKMAR-DIEMER GAMBIT



1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6  Euwe Defense 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 0-0 8 00 c5 9 Qe1 cxd4 10 Ne2 Nc6 11 Qh4 g6 12 a3 Nd5 13 Qh6 e5 14 Ng3 Nf4 15 Bxf4 exf4 16 Nh5! Bf6 17 Ng5! 1-0.









GM Julian Radulsky - Zilbermintz

5 0 rated blitz

Internet Chess Club

6 April 2009



PHILIDOR COUNTER GAMBIT



1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 f5 4 Nc3 fxe4 5 Nxe4 d5 6 Neg5 e4 7 Ne5 Nh6 8 Qh5+ g6 9 Nxg6 Bg4!



10 Qh4 hxg4 11 h3 Bd7 12 Be3 Bg7 13 000 Nf5 14 Qf4 00 15 Ne4 Nxe3 16 Qxe3 dxe4 17 Bc4+ Kh8 



Best is 17...Kh7!



18 h4 Qf6 19 h5 g5 20 h6 Bh6 21 Qe4 Kg7 22 Qb7 Bc6 23 Qc7 Nd7 24 d5 Rac8 25 Qa7 g4+ 26 Kb1 Rb8 27 Bb3 Bb5 28 a4 Ra8 29 Qc7 Rfc8 30 Qg3 Ne5 31 ab5 Bf4 32 Qh4 Qxh4 33 Rh4 Rh8 34 Rh8 Rh8 35 Re1 Ng6 36 g3 Be5 37 c3 Rh2 38 Re4 Rf2  39 Rg4 Rf1 White overstepped on time, 0-1.



GM Leonid Yudasin - Zilbermintz

Chess Mates Blitz Tournament

Rahway, New Jersey

5 October 2011



PHILIDOR COUNTER GAMBIT



To begin with, Yudasin was cocky enough to start the game with me having 5 minutes to his 4. Naturally, I squeezed everything I could from this advantage.



1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 f5 4 exf5 e4 5 Nfd2 Bxf5 6 Nc3 Nf6 7 Ne3 Bg6 8 c4 c6 9 d5 c5 10 Be2 Be7 11 b3 00 12 Bb2 Qc7 13 Nc3 a6 14 00 Nbd7 15 Ng5 Nxg4 16 Bxg4 Ne5 17 Be6+ Kh8 18 Qd2 Rae8 19 Rad1 Nd3 20 Ba1 Qd8 21 Qc2 Bg5 22 Na4 Qe7 23 Bc3



Now comes a beautiful combination, my best against a Grandmaster in over-the-board play. The only comparable one was GM Dzindzichashvili - Zilbermintz, Bryant Park simultaneous, New York 1994. That game ended in a fighting draw.



23...Nxf2!!



A beautiful sacrifice which wins a piece by force. There is no defense.



24 Qb2 Nxd1 25 Rxd1 Bf6 26 Bxf6 Qxf6 27 Qd2 Qf4 28 Qxf4 Rxf4 and 0-1 in the endgame.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #227 - 12/29/11 at 14:14:06
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 12/29/11 at 11:33:52:
books are never the last word — otherwise there'd be no need for any new ones Wink

Well, it would surprise me if on a short term new books were needed for the Bishop's Gambit (Johansson) and the Danish Gambit (Müller/Voigt). Not that they are perfect, but overall they are pretty close to conclusive.
But I get your point. So let me again make clear that I didn't mean this remark as criticism. I value books that give rise to substantial debates equally high.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #226 - 12/29/11 at 11:33:52
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MNb wrote on 12/28/11 at 16:03:40:
So the book is hardly the last word


books are never the last word — otherwise there'd be no need for any new ones Wink
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #225 - 12/29/11 at 03:04:00
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A tricky transposition Scheerer doesn't address:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 c6 5.Bc4 (5.Nxe4 Bf5 6.Ng3 Bg6 is for players who love to waste a tempo in the main line of the Caro-Kann) b5 6.Bb3 exf3! and 7.Nxf3 (I don't trust 7.Qxf3 Qxd4 8.Be3 Qe5) b4 is a line Scheerer condemns via 4...exf3 5.Nxf3 c6 6.Bc4 b5 when he prefers 7.Bd3.
After 7.Bb3 b4 8.Ne2 Ba6 9.Ne5 e6 10.O-O Bd6 11.Qe1 Bxe5 12.dxe5 Ng4 White possibly can improve on Diemer's play with 13.Rf4. Black has 11...Nbd7 though and the Bishop indeed doesn't belong on b3. After 12.Nc4 Bxc4 13.Bxc4 O-O 14.Qh4 c5 15.Bd3 cxd4 16.Bg5 h6 the typical sac is even sufficient. After 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6 Qa5 White will remain an exchange down.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #224 - 12/28/11 at 17:31:11
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In my experience, Black usually Castles Kingside in the Euwe.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #223 - 12/28/11 at 16:03:40
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Another problem might be found in the Euwe Defence: 5...e6 6.Bg5 Be7 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.a3 O-O 9.Qd2 a6 10.O-O-O b5 11.Ne4 and Scheerer gives a game Gohla-Huber, corr 2000, leading to good play for White. Not only is 15...f5 16.Nc5 b4 a notable improvement. Fortunately White has the far more typical 11.Qf4. Black can postpone castling: 8...a6 9.Qd2 b5 10.O-O-O Bb7 11.Ne4 b4 12.axb4 Nxb4 13.Bxf6 Nxd3+ 14.Qxd3 gxf6 15.Rhe1 Qd5 and I'm not convinced of White's compensation. It's nice that Black still can castle both sides.

On the other hand 7.Qd2 c5 8.O-O-O and 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.Bd3 (8.O-O-O c6 and 9...h6 or 9...Qa5) give White more chances than Scheerer seems to think.
7...O-O 8.O-O-O Nc6 9.a3 a6 transposes to a line above.
So the book is hardly the last word - but at least its a fair and systemetical overview of all the first words on this gambit.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #222 - 12/27/11 at 21:31:29
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Gambit wrote on 12/27/11 at 21:17:00:
Really... If you want fun stuff, try 1 d4 Nf6 2 g4, the Gibbins-Weidenhagen Gambit, or 1 d4 Nf6 2 e4, the Omega Gambit.

I don't think it fun to be worse at move 2 when playing White. I think something like 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.Bg5 dxc4 6.e4 b5 7.Qc2 fun. White is a pawn down again, but has actual compensation in return.

Quote:
You say the Lemberger is boring, but I disagree.
I would think the Lemberger equally boring in otb play. An example is 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2 (5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Qd5, Scheerer) Bf5 6.Nc3 (White is playing some lame moves, given his strategy of quick development) Nc6 7.Bd2 O-O-O 8.O-O-O Qc5 and Black is just a pawn up.
Yeah, 4.dxe5 Qxd1+ is about equal, but I rather play 1.e4 e5 2.d4 d6 3.dxe5 dxe5 4.Qxd8+ if I have to exchange Queens early.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #221 - 12/27/11 at 21:17:00
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Really... If you want fun stuff, try 1 d4 Nf6 2 g4, the Gibbins-Weidenhagen Gambit, or 1 d4 Nf6 2 e4, the Omega Gambit.

I am aware of the ...b5 line you mentioned, having seen it before. You say the Lemberger is boring, but I disagree. But then, you are a postal player, whereas I am primarily an over-the-board player.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #220 - 12/27/11 at 02:21:35
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And the Lemberger is boring as we already have established. Not to mention 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 b5, a real countergambit.
2.c4! is the move for attacking players.

Addition: while I like Scheerer's book - it's indeed the first unbiased one on the BDG - there are flaws. He has missed a source:

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 f5 4.Bf4 Nf6 5.f3 e6 6.fxe4 fxe4 7.Bc4 Nc6 8.Nge2 Na5! 9.Bb5+ and Scheerer has missed c6! 10.Ba4 b5 11.Bb3 b4 (Williams in Play the Dutch).
A better chance is 7.Qd2 like Summerscale-Wall, 1995, unclear.
« Last Edit: 12/27/11 at 21:22:20 by MNb »  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #219 - 12/27/11 at 01:29:06
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All very good for those who want to take a chance with the Hubsch Gambit instead of the Lemberger. Me, I do not trust the Hubsch. Given that I play 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 , I am more apt to see the Lemberger. I should say that I am prepared for it. After all, my opponents do not read this website! LOL!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #218 - 12/26/11 at 00:46:33
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Gambit wrote on 12/24/11 at 20:21:40:
Surprised you did not look at it earlier.
So am I. To make it easy for you:

MNb wrote on 12/23/11 at 13:58:57:
5.Be3 e5 6.dxe5 pleases me a lot better than the Lemberger. Exchanging Queens will mean a substantial lead in development. But there is 5.Be3 Nd7 (not in Scheerer's book) and stereotypal development will not do: 6.f3 exf3 7.Nxf3 e6 8.Bc4 e6 9.c3 Nd5 and White couldn't develop any attack, Werl-Mantzouneas, Bad Liebenzell 1996. I like 8.Bd3 e6 9.O-O better with the intention Nd5 10.Bg5
a)10...f6 11.Ne5! (fun) fxg5 12.Qh5+.
b)10...Bf6 11.Ne5! (hardly less fun) Bf6 12.Qh5.
I would have thought you would like these lines.

More problems (and I'm too lazy to check if this has been mentioned before):
5.Be3 Bf5 6.Bc4 (Scheerer's main line is 6.g4 at once, but that allows the unmentioned 6...Be6 when White will get the pawn back after 7.Bg2,  but the pawn on g4 is a weakness) e6 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne2
a)8...Nd7 9.h4 h6 10.Nf4 Bh7 11.g5 looks fine;
b)8...Nc6 9.h4 h6 10.Nf4 Bh7 11.g5 does not look fine because of Qd6 (Scheerer via a transposition). I'm not sure if 9.Qd2 h5 10.g5 Bb4, Bd6 or Qd7 offers enough compensation.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #217 - 12/25/11 at 22:51:00
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You evidently don't look very far- what about MNb's post #205?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #216 - 12/25/11 at 20:48:14
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So  5 Be3 is designed to prevent the ...c5 break. All very good, but what if Black plays 5...Nd7, preparing an upcoming ...c5 ?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #215 - 12/25/11 at 19:08:13
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MNb discussed that even before Scheerer's book came out, mentioning 5.Bf4 e6 6.Qd2 c5.  We reached much the same conclusions as Scheerer reached in his book.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #214 - 12/25/11 at 16:41:07
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What about 5 Bf4 ?

Merry Christmas!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #213 - 12/25/11 at 05:52:49
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Gambit wrote on 12/24/11 at 20:21:40:
The move 5 Be3 in the Hubsch is well-known. Surprised you did not look at it earlier.


He did, see post 9369.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #212 - 12/24/11 at 20:21:40
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The move 5 Be3 in the Hubsch is well-known. Surprised you did not look at it earlier.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #211 - 12/24/11 at 16:18:04
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Gambit wrote on 12/24/11 at 00:48:57:
However, I am cited more in Scheerer's book than you are, MNb. I have lots of games in there.

Congratulations. It's very, very important to be more cited than I am.
In the meantime I will have a closer look at 5.Be3 in the Hübsch.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #210 - 12/24/11 at 14:54:03
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Gambit wrote on 12/24/11 at 00:48:57:
I don't play the Ryder Gambit, except in blitz. This is because I am not as familiar with it as the BDG. However, I am cited more in Scheerer's book than you are, MNb. I have lots of games in there.

You asked whether it was possible to avoid the Hubsch and the Lemberger after 1 d4 d5 and I gave you the answer: Yes it is. Assuming you play White and the opponent plays scaredy-cat after 2 f3, what you do depends on your skill.

Yes, and for that matter you could avoid the Hubsch and Lemberger with 1.e4, or 2.c4.  I think 2.f3 gives Black too many ways to steer towards traditional queen's pawn games in which Black holds back from ...d7-d5 and the move f2-f3 is not particularly useful.

It's worth noting that if both 4.Nxe4 and 4.Nge2 prove insufficient (in the sense of generating both interesting and equal play) against the Lemberger, 1.d4 d5 can also be met by 2.Nc3 and 3.e4 (I have tried out this move-order on occasion in casual games and actually ended up with a lot of French Defences- which was handy as I usually go 3.Nc3 against the French anyway).
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #209 - 12/24/11 at 00:48:57
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I don't play the Ryder Gambit, except in blitz. This is because I am not as familiar with it as the BDG. However, I am cited more in Scheerer's book than you are, MNb. I have lots of games in there.

You asked whether it was possible to avoid the Hubsch and the Lemberger after 1 d4 d5 and I gave you the answer: Yes it is. Assuming you play White and the opponent plays scaredy-cat after 2 f3, what you do depends on your skill.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #208 - 12/23/11 at 23:04:32
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Yes, I took part in one recent analysis of that line and the strong impression was that Black was solid, and although White could regain one pawn in many lines it invariably involved allowing Black to catch up on development.
The traditional main line 6...Qg4 7.Qf2 e5 is also good for Black, though if I remember rightly it was only looking good for an =+, whereas MNb's 6...Qh4+ potentially offers something nearer -/+ with best play.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #207 - 12/23/11 at 21:09:43
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Thorough analysis of a half move deep by LDZ. Except for the small detail that White in all three cases is slightly worse. In the Ryder Gambit it's because of 6...Qh4+ 7.g3 Qb4 8.O-O-O c6! The point is that square g3 is not available anymore for Her Majesty. LDZ could have known, because I have posted this line a few times before. In fact I have known this line since 15 years, when I still played the Ryder Gambit. Fortunately my opponents didn't have this knowledge; I never met it.
Flattering to read that I am cited in Scheerer's book - on page 294.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #206 - 12/23/11 at 16:55:30
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After 1 d4 d5 2 f3 e5 3 dxe5; 2...c5 3 c3. With regard to the Ryder Gambit, play 7 g3
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #205 - 12/23/11 at 13:58:57
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SWJediknight wrote on 12/23/11 at 12:16:58:
Indeed, I think that if White wishes to get a BDG after 1.d4 Nf6, then it is better to brave the Hubsch and go 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4.

That's what I did when I played the Ryder Gambit for two seasons - quite some fun. One of my very few losses was with the Hübsch ..... I obviously hadn't done enough effort.
Scheerer also thinks high of ...c5, even though he writes that 5.Bf4 would be his recommendation. That looks a bit contradictory to me.
5.Be3 e5 6.dxe5 pleases me a lot better than the Lemberger. Exchanging Queens will mean a substantial lead in development. But there is 5.Be3 Nd7 (not in Scheerer's book) and stereotypal development will not do: 6.f3 exf3 7.Nxf3 e6 8.Bc4 e6 9.c3 Nd5 and White couldn't develop any attack, Werl-Mantzouneas, Bad Liebenzell 1996. I like 8.Bd3 e6 9.O-O better with the intention Nd5 10.Bg5
a)10...f6 11.Ne5! (fun) fxg5 12.Qh5+.
b)10...Bf6 11.Ne5! (hardly less fun) Bf6 12.Qh5.

Now if only I could breathe new life into 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 dxe4 4.f3 exf3 5.Qxf3 Qxd4 6.Be3 Qh4+ for White ....
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #204 - 12/23/11 at 12:16:58
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Indeed, I think that if White wishes to get a BDG after 1.d4 Nf6, then it is better to brave the Hubsch and go 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4.  Apparently in the databases 3...dxe4 is more popular than 3...Nxe4.  Then my preference is 4.Nxe4 dxe4 5.Be3, although I'm yet to play this OTB (the only game I had with the Hubsch went 5.Bf4, and Black missed the critical ...c5 approach).

As an aside, I also find 1...Nf6 a problem against the 2.c4 approaches when it comes to generating double-edged, attacking play, specifically the Nimzo/Bogo/Queen's Indian complex (I think of White's side of the Nimzo as being the better bet, but have still struggled to get positions that I'm comfortable with there).  Conversely after 1...d5 I quite often wheel out 2.c4 these days.

I'm afraid I don't trust 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 and I think Scheerer left it out of his book for good reasons.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #203 - 12/23/11 at 04:59:25
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You asked for it as well, bloke. You help White from the quay into the ditch, as we Dutch say. In English its something with frying pan and fire.
1.d4 d5 2.f3 e5! or 2.f3 c5! and I already prefer Black.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #202 - 12/23/11 at 01:44:37
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You asked for it, dude. Turns out you can avoid the Lemberger and the Hubsch after 1 d4 d5 2 f3!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #201 - 12/22/11 at 14:09:44
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Gambit wrote on 12/22/11 at 12:57:24:
MNb, you seem to completely forget an important distinction.

That distinction is completely irrelevant for my argument. The Lemberger is part of your BDG repertoire. It makes the BDG a boring opening, unless the Hübsch is revived. You don't like that one, so instead you have to play a boring opening.
2.c4 is far more interesting I say than the boring 2.e4. In a corr game with the Spassky Gambit I managed to sac a Knight on f7 on move 15. Now I think of it, in another corr game with the Rubinstein Variation of the NID I sacced a rook on move 20. Only on move 29 this material deficiency was reduced to a Knight, which continued until my opponent resigned.
I don't think I'll get such chances after 3...e5.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #200 - 12/22/11 at 13:04:02
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On this point I have to agree more with MNb- if you use the move-order 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 then you can hardly avoid the Lemberger.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #199 - 12/22/11 at 12:57:24
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MNb, you seem to completely forget an important distinction. The BDG is 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 , not 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5.  So, you can argue that the Lemberger Counter Gambit avoids the BDG, but that is all.

Hardly a boring opening.

  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #198 - 12/22/11 at 12:15:19
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MNb wrote on 12/21/11 at 23:16:05:
SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 21:52:40:
But my earlier point was that the Lemberger requires Black to be happy with prospectless equality after 4.dxe5, or an extra pawn in return for some compensation after 4.Nxe4, so it has its downsides as a retort to the BDG.

In short: the BDG s***s because after 3...e5 White doesn't have any better than the boring 4.dxe5. At the other hand 3...e5 s***s because White can chose the boring 4.dxe5.
This pretty much makes all the propagandistic bla bla useless.

Although objectively 4.Nxe4 is no better than 4.dxe5, I don't think it follows that the opening is boring if White can force "compensation for a pawn" positions with 4.Nxe4 and hope to get full compensation- in that case 3...e5 is no more of a problem than 3...Nf6 4.f3 exf3 which has the same assessment.

After all, in the Danish/Göring Gambit Declined line, 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.cxd4 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.Nc3 Bb4, 8.Be3 is objectively no better than 8.Be2, but that isn't a strong argument for the notion that the whole line is as boring as the endings that result from 8.Be2 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Qc4.

Where I do think there's an issue with the BDG is the way some fanatics get it in nearly every game (with 1.d4 d5 2.e4, 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3, 1.d4 d5 2.e4 e6 3.Be3 for example), thus severely limiting the range of positions that they get out of the opening.  There are plenty of other openings that give a lot of scope for tactical and unbalanced play.  It's quite similar to the problem with trying to get a Colle System or London in every game, but the latter two openings are more definitely sound than the Blackmar-Diemer.  This is the main reason why I only use the BDG as an occasional weapon, mainly via transposition from 1.e4 openings.

This objection wouldn't apply, for instance, to those who use the Danish and/or Göring Gambits exclusively (or for that matter a mainline 1.e4 opening like the Scotch or Ruy Lopez) because White can only use them against 1.e4 e5, obviously after 1...c5, 1...c6 or 1...e6 White has to find a different set-up.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #197 - 12/22/11 at 09:51:02
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Gambit wrote on 12/22/11 at 05:21:44:
The LCG should be tested with 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nx3 e5 4 Nxe4 or 4 Nge2.

Which aren't better than 4.dxe5. So the BDG is a boring opening. I have tried the toilet, thanks for the advise, LDZ, but it didn't make the BDG any more interesting.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #196 - 12/22/11 at 05:21:44
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MNb wrote on 12/21/11 at 23:16:05:
SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 21:52:40:
But my earlier point was that the Lemberger requires Black to be happy with prospectless equality after 4.dxe5, or an extra pawn in return for some compensation after 4.Nxe4, so it has its downsides as a retort to the BDG.

In short: the BDG s***s because after 3...e5 White doesn't have any better than the boring 4.dxe5. At the other hand 3...e5 s***s because White can chose the boring 4.dxe5.
This pretty much makes all the propagandistic bla bla useless.


Well, MNb, you know where the nearest toilet is, right? Since you are the one who says s***s...

With regard to the French Defense, try 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e6 and now 4 Be3 intending 5 f3.

The LCG should be tested with 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nx3 e5 4 Nxe4 or 4 Nge2.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #195 - 12/21/11 at 23:16:05
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SWJediknight wrote on 12/21/11 at 21:52:40:
But my earlier point was that the Lemberger requires Black to be happy with prospectless equality after 4.dxe5, or an extra pawn in return for some compensation after 4.Nxe4, so it has its downsides as a retort to the BDG.

In short: the BDG s***s because after 3...e5 White doesn't have any better than the boring 4.dxe5. At the other hand 3...e5 s***s because White can chose the boring 4.dxe5.
This pretty much makes all the propagandistic bla bla useless.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #194 - 12/21/11 at 22:58:13
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Gambit wrote on 12/21/11 at 18:08:03:
Chevy, if you want to play the BDG, you have to be prepared for the Lemberger. Your problem is that you don't have enough confidence. How many times have I played an inferior French Defense and won? Many times!


Who cares? There are more efficient ways of beating weaker players with White (1.g3 for instance). I don't need to make bad moves to induce errors from my opponents. I just have a strong distaste for this type of play. Sure, it can sometimes be effective, but it has self-imposed limitations. I'd rather create options for myself than take them away.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #193 - 12/21/11 at 21:52:40
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Actually I agree that the c3 Sicilian perhaps offers more chances of a lasting edge for White than the Lemberger.

But my earlier point was that the Lemberger requires Black to be happy with prospectless equality after 4.dxe5, or an extra pawn in return for some compensation after 4.Nxe4, so it has its downsides as a retort to the BDG.  In addition if White can force "compensation for a pawn" lines in the Lemberger then your typical BDG enthusiast won't be too bothered about it- the whole point of a "declining" line being bothersome for the gambiteer is that it prevents White from generally achieving "compensation for a pawn" lines, such as with 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5.

1.d4 Nf6 is of course a bigger problem for those who want to get a BDG in every game, as are a couple of transpositions to the French Defence, most notably 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e6, when 4.f3 Bb4! gives Black good chances of an edge.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #192 - 12/21/11 at 18:08:03
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Chevy, if you want to play the BDG, you have to be prepared for the Lemberger. Your problem is that you don't have enough confidence. How many times have I played an inferior French Defense and won? Many times!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #191 - 12/20/11 at 16:52:35
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Even more fun for Black is 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 c5 3.d5 d6 4.e4 e6 5.c4 b5!
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #190 - 12/20/11 at 16:47:28
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SWJediknight wrote on 12/20/11 at 12:28:03:
As an aside, I don't think the c3-Sicilian is considered a particularly good way towards a White advantage these days, with most of the top players who avoid the Open moving towards Bb5(+) systems.


Black may be good in the c3 Sicilian, but there are different types of "equality." Maybe this sounds vague, but I think the c3 Sicilian is more challenging for Black than the Lemberger.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #189 - 12/20/11 at 16:35:51
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Gambit wrote on 12/20/11 at 08:17:08:
See, Chevy, that's being unaware of the proper move order and theory.  To answer your question, after 1 d4 Nf6 try 2 f3. This avoids the pesky Hubsch Gambit, which even I don't trust, and steers the game into the BDG after 2...d5 3 e4 dxe4 4 Nc3. Of course, you might have to be prepared to play against the Pirc Defense, 2 f3 d6 3 e4 g6, etc. or the Benoni, 2 f3 c5 3 d5.

Regarding the Lemberger Counter Gambit, there are several ways to play against it. After 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5, White can play 4 Nge2, the Rasmussen Attack, or 4 Nxe4, the Lange Gambit. Since the opponent cannot use a computer in OTB chess, you have good chances.

Grandmasters are conservative and don't like to take risks with the BDG.  Nevertheless, IM and GM games with the BDG exist. Do your research.


I've done my research. Tongue A lot of those IM and GM games occur by transposition, no? Probably the coolest thing is that Kasparov played a "BDG" (tempo up) once in a simul from the Trompovsky.

White has many ways against the Lemberger, and none are particulary inspiring to me. I have more ambition as White. It's not so difficult for Black to at least equalize.

I am aware of 2.f3, but I think it's kinda lame. 2.f3 d5 3.e4 c5 - BDG denied. No way I'll go for an inferior French. I'm not huge fan of f3 systems in other openings anyway and this is a funny way of going about it. Well, I'll give you that it's much better than 1.f3. My position is that you'll have a lot of trouble convincing strong players to adopt 2.f3. I don't care what style you have - it just doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of logical development principles.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #188 - 12/20/11 at 14:13:48
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So what? Equality in the Lemberger? I will take it.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #187 - 12/20/11 at 12:28:03
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The main issue with the Lemberger is that Black has to be prepared to face dead equality after 4.dxe5 Qxd1+ 5.Nxd1, or end up with an extra pawn for compensation anyway after 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Bd3, 4...exd4 5.Bb5+ c6 6.Bc4, and 4...Nc6 5.Bb5 Qxd4 6.Qe2.  4.Nge2 is also tricky, though Black probably gets the better of it after 4...Nc6!.

The Hubsch Gambit is indeed dubious: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 Nxe4 4.Nxe4 dxe4, and now 5.Bc4 Nc6! leads to a Black edge (6.c3 e5 7.d5 Ne5, as recommended by Eric Prie, leads to =+, while Scheerer considers 7...Nb8 to be even better).  5.Bf4 used to be my preference, with White getting enough compensation against the traditional ...Bf5 and/or ...e6, ...Bd6 approaches, but 5...e6 intending ...c5 is problematic for White.  Today my preference would be 5.Be3 when White at least has some chances of getting enough compensation.  I've seen debates on the rights and wrongs of 2.f3 elsewhere, e.g. 2...c5!? aiming for lines where f2-f3 isn't particularly useful.  White could also end up in some sort of Samisch King's Indian or 4.f3 Nimzo-Indian (though neither of those are bad for White).

As an aside, I don't think the c3-Sicilian is considered a particularly good way towards a White advantage these days, with most of the top players who avoid the Open moving towards Bb5(+) systems.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #186 - 12/20/11 at 08:17:08
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See, Chevy, that's being unaware of the proper move order and theory.  To answer your question, after 1 d4 Nf6 try 2 f3. This avoids the pesky Hubsch Gambit, which even I don't trust, and steers the game into the BDG after 2...d5 3 e4 dxe4 4 Nc3. Of course, you might have to be prepared to play against the Pirc Defense, 2 f3 d6 3 e4 g6, etc. or the Benoni, 2 f3 c5 3 d5.

Regarding the Lemberger Counter Gambit, there are several ways to play against it. After 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 e5, White can play 4 Nge2, the Rasmussen Attack, or 4 Nxe4, the Lange Gambit. Since the opponent cannot use a computer in OTB chess, you have good chances.

Grandmasters are conservative and don't like to take risks with the BDG.  Nevertheless, IM and GM games with the BDG exist. Do your research.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #185 - 12/20/11 at 04:16:22
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That Black can play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 Nxe4 or 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe5 3.Nc3 e5 and get a good game pretty much nullifies the practical value of the gambit in my eyes. I doubt titled players are abstaining from the BDG on the status of the Alchemy Variation. Smith-Morra players at least have the respite that c3 Sicilian transpositions in the declined variations represent a decent practical try for an edge. I think this is a big thing going against the BDG from a practical perspecitive. The highest level OTB games in the BDG seem to usually occur by transposition from other openings like the Caro-Kann or the Dutch. I'll easily concede that many of the accepted lines look dangerous for Black, but I'd never play the White side due to all the move order difficulties.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #184 - 12/19/11 at 14:26:44
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I think 11...0-0! certainly looks like the way for Black to go.  There was an earlier thread in which 12.c3 Nd5 13.Qg4 Nd7 14.Qg3 Nxf4 15.Rxf4 h6!? was suggested:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1235624393
Again the sacrifices on e6 fall short of full compensation and 16.Ne4 Nb6 17.Bd3 Nd5 sees Black consolidating.  With two probable improvements over Scheerer's analysis (which, in itself, ends with "White should be able to hold despite his slightly inferior structure"), my current view is that the "Alchemy Variation", though a better try than the old main line 8.Ne5, is also insufficient against accurate play.

Carsten Hansen (who I generally hold in high regard as a reviewer, but I thought his review of Scheerer's book reflected his prejudices against the opening) concluded from this that "despite all the smoke and mirrors, the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit still isn't viable beyond club-level or rapid-play games", but evidently missed the coverage of Gutman/Bücker's line with Bg5 and Nh4, in which Black is yet to prove more than dynamic equality.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #183 - 12/18/11 at 16:57:17
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One point that might influence Scheerer's assessment of an entire variation and even of the entire BDG is, not surprisingly, to be found in the Von Hennig-Milner Barry Gambit, incorrectly but commonly called the Ziegler Defence.

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Bc4 Nf6 5.f3 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.O-O e6 8.Ng5 Bg6 9.Ne2 Bd6 10.Nf4 Bxf4 11.Bxf4 O-O 12.c3 (12.Bxe6 h6!) and here Black might play 12...h6. The sacs on e6 still don't work and after 13.Nf3 Nbd7 14.Qd2 Qe7 the sac on h6 doesn't give enough compensation either. So White is left with the typical Caro-Kann like position, enjoying an extra pawn, with only the pair of Bishops in return.

Positive news: White can avoid the draw 11...Nd5 12.Qg4 Nf6 13.Qd1 Nf6 14.Qg4 Nf6 with 13.Qe2 Qxd4+ 14.Be3 Qxb2 15.Bxe6 fxe6 16.Nxe6 Kd7 17.Bd4 unclear.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #182 - 06/08/11 at 18:43:39
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Quote:
Today at 12:21:32
In: Re: NEW BDG BOOK
By: Stefan Buecker


so where is it? Huh
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #181 - 05/31/11 at 18:44:10
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I've just noticed that this month's d-Pawn Special update on the BDG came out on the anniversary of Blackmar's birth (in 1826)! Smiley
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #180 - 05/30/11 at 15:31:08
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I removed the "again" from Lev's post since it scalded some people's eyeballs.  Now let's get on with the chess.  If somebody doesn't like my moderation, they can take it up with Tony.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #179 - 05/28/11 at 17:42:52
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In addition it's another of those errors that doesn't actually cast doubt upon Scheerer's assessment of the variations as a whole.  He regards 8.Qf2 as dubious, 8.Be3 as a good way to slowly build up an attack and 8.g4 as a good way to go all-out for the black king, with approximate equality in both cases.
  
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Reply #178 - 05/28/11 at 15:04:18
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Gambit wrote on 05/28/11 at 12:24:37:
Scheerer gives incorrect analyses on the top of page 258,  in his book. This time it is the Teichmann Defense, Cieselski Attack. The line in question goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 Bg4 6 h3 Bxh3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 Qf2.

Now the line continues with 8...e6 9 Bg5 Be7 10 Bd3 Nbd7 11 00 00 12 Qh4 g6 as played in Zilbermints - Jackson Hueckel (1977), New York, 5/27/2011. There followed 13 Ne4 Nd5 14 c4 Bxg5 15 Nxg5 N5f6 16 Qh6 Qe7 17 Rf4 Rf8-d8 18 Raf1 Qf8

In this critical position, the computer gives 19 Qxf8+ Rxf8 20 Rf6 Nxf6 21 Rxf6 Rad8 22 Nf3 Kg7 23 Rf4, and evaluates it as =/=+ depending on the moves Black makes.

Instead, the game continued 19 Qh4 Qg7 20 Ne4 Nh5 21 Ng5? (R4f2 is better) Nxf4 22 Rxf4 Rf8 23 Qf2 Rae8 24 Ne4 e5 25 dxe5 Qxe5 26 c5 f5 27 Nd6 Qe1+ 28 Qxe1 Rxe1 29 Kf2 Re5 30 b4 b6 31 cb6 32 Nb6 32 Bb1 Rd5 33 Nb7   

Here we went into a time scramble. My opponent had less than 5 minutes remaining on his clock. I pressed on, and eventually was able to win the game by forking his Rook and King with the Knight.

1-0.

My question is, after 11...00 12 Qh4 g6 13 Rae1 Nd5 14 Ne4 f6 15 Bh6  Rf7 16 c4 Nb4 17 Be2 c5 what does White have in terms of attacking chances? I do not see anything! Neither does my computer!


There's probably nothing after 17.Be2 c5! -/+ but 17.Bb1! is possible and then it's not so clear.



« Last Edit: 05/30/11 at 15:45:23 by Markovich »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #177 - 05/28/11 at 12:24:37
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Scheerer gives incorrect analyses on the top of page 258,  in his book. This time it is the Teichmann Defense, Cieselski Attack. The line in question goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf3 Bg4 6 h3 Bxh3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 Qf2.

Now the line continues with 8...e6 9 Bg5 Be7 10 Bd3 Nbd7 11 00 00 12 Qh4 g6 as played in Zilbermints - Jackson Hueckel (1977), New York, 5/27/2011. There followed 13 Ne4 Nd5 14 c4 Bxg5 15 Nxg5 N5f6 16 Qh6 Qe7 17 Rf4 Rf8-d8 18 Raf1 Qf8

In this critical position, the computer gives 19 Qxf8+ Rxf8 20 Rf6 Nxf6 21 Rxf6 Rad8 22 Nf3 Kg7 23 Rf4, and evaluates it as =/=+ depending on the moves Black makes.

Instead, the game continued 19 Qh4 Qg7 20 Ne4 Nh5 21 Ng5? (R4f2 is better) Nxf4 22 Rxf4 Rf8 23 Qf2 Rae8 24 Ne4 e5 25 dxe5 Qxe5 26 c5 f5 27 Nd6 Qe1+ 28 Qxe1 Rxe1 29 Kf2 Re5 30 b4 b6 31 cb6 32 Nb6 32 Bb1 Rd5 33 Nb7   

Here we went into a time scramble. My opponent had less than 5 minutes remaining on his clock. I pressed on, and eventually was able to win the game by forking his Rook and King with the Knight.

1-0.

My question is, after 11...00 12 Qh4 g6 13 Rae1 Nd5 14 Ne4 f6 15 Bh6  Rf7 16 c4 Nb4 17 Be2 c5 what does White have in terms of attacking chances? I do not see anything! Neither does my computer!
« Last Edit: 05/30/11 at 15:35:06 by Markovich »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #176 - 04/13/11 at 07:44:19
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Thank you, Tony.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #175 - 04/12/11 at 19:12:39
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Correct me if I'm wrong here people:

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 c6 6. Bc4 Bf5 7. 0-0 e6 8. Ng5 Bg6 9. Ne2 and so on...
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #174 - 04/12/11 at 18:52:37
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OldGrizzly wrote on 04/12/11 at 18:19:27:
MNb wrote on 04/08/11 at 09:46:31:
I don't agree. 17.Rxb7 wins Knight d7, because White gets the Bishop on b6.
Immediately 13...Nf6 idea 14.Nb5 Na6 might be an improvement.

Of course, you are right. I was focused only on Gambit's idea to play Ne5.

I'd like to have a look at Alchemy variation which was discussed heavily on this forum. After 8...Bg6 9.Ne2 Bd6 10.Nf4 Bxf4 11.Bxf4 0-0 12.c3 Nd5 Scheerer suggests 13.Qg4!? Nd7 14.Qg3 Nxf4 15.Rxf4. Now he only mentioned 15...Nf6 and 15...c5. But what's with 15...h6? I didn't find any good answer. Can anybody help?


For the benefit of all us very few people who don't know the BDG inside and out (honestly, I wonder why we even bother coming to this forum, now that the BDG dominates play at all levels), would you please put all the moves?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #173 - 04/12/11 at 18:19:27
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MNb wrote on 04/08/11 at 09:46:31:
I don't agree. 17.Rxb7 wins Knight d7, because White gets the Bishop on b6.
Immediately 13...Nf6 idea 14.Nb5 Na6 might be an improvement.

Of course, you are right. I was focused only on Gambit's idea to play Ne5.

I'd like to have a look at Alchemy variation which was discussed heavily on this forum. After 8...Bg6 9.Ne2 Bd6 10.Nf4 Bxf4 11.Bxf4 0-0 12.c3 Nd5 Scheerer suggests 13.Qg4!? Nd7 14.Qg3 Nxf4 15.Rxf4. Now he only mentioned 15...Nf6 and 15...c5. But what's with 15...h6? I didn't find any good answer. Can anybody help?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #172 - 04/08/11 at 09:46:31
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I don't agree. 17.Rxb7 wins Knight d7, because White gets the Bishop on b6.
Immediately 13...Nf6 idea 14.Nb5 Na6 might be an improvement.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #171 - 04/08/11 at 07:01:46
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Gambit wrote on 03/21/11 at 19:31:28:
Earlier, in post #113, I posted my opinion of Scheerer's analysis of the Gunderam Attack in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. That line goes:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6

Considered the key move by Scheerer.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

Now Scheerer on page 123 gives the dubious 14 Nf3? Nh6 15 Rcd2 a6! and White's edge is evaporating, while Black has 5 pawns for the piece. Methinks I posted an improvement over this weak line elsewhere here. Here is a game that shows how White must play.

Zilbermints - ocabrera
Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
21 March 2011


1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rc2 Qf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

So far as in the book. Now comes the improvement.

14 Nb5!! cxb5 15 Bxb5 Nf6 16 Rc7 Rd8 17 Ne5 e6 18 Nxd7 Nxd7 19 Bxd7+ Ke7 20 Bc8+ Kf6 21 Rxd8, 1-0.

  I have known about the whole 10 Be3 - 14 Nb5! line for many years now. However, I kept it secret, until such time came to release it. With the publication of Scheerer's book, and the faulty 14 Nf3? line, the time has come to release the secret analyses and games prepared and played years ago. These date to at least 2002 !

There is a small, but fine difference: Scheerer has given 11...Qxh5 12.Qxh5 Nxh5 (not as you claimed 11...Qxf3 12.Nxf3 Nxh5).
If we follow your analysis in Scheerer's move order, then after 13.000 Nd7 14.Nb5(?!) cxb5 15.Bxb5 Nf6 16.Rc7 Rd8 White has to move the Ng1 to f3 and after 17.Nf3 a6! Black has the advantage!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #170 - 03/23/11 at 07:20:37
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MNb wrote on 03/23/11 at 01:29:56:
SWJediknight wrote on 03/22/11 at 21:36:59:
Instead White can try 5.Bb5+ c6 6.Bc4.

That's Sawyer's main line in his Keybook 1 (I never bothered to buy nr. 2). I am not convinced after 6...Bf5, especially because Sawyer's recommendations are not his best. After say 7.Ng3 Bg6 8.Nf3 Bb4+ 9.Bd2 Qe7+ White's play is less appealing than the Caro-Kann with 4...Bf5.


Scheerer gives 7.Qf3!? Bg6 8.Ng5 Nf6 9.Qb3 which seems more interesting and he quotes a game that was still "unclear" after White's 17th move.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #169 - 03/23/11 at 01:29:56
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SWJediknight wrote on 03/22/11 at 21:36:59:
Instead White can try 5.Bb5+ c6 6.Bc4.

That's Sawyer's main line in his Keybook 1 (I never bothered to buy nr. 2). I am not convinced after 6...Bf5, especially because Sawyer's recommendations are not his best. After say 7.Ng3 Bg6 8.Nf3 Bb4+ 9.Bd2 Qe7+ White's play is less appealing than the Caro-Kann with 4...Bf5.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #168 - 03/22/11 at 23:44:46
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It's been out for a while in the UK, not sure about other countries.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #167 - 03/22/11 at 23:19:57
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is this book actually out? Amazon is still listing as a preorder.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #166 - 03/22/11 at 21:36:59
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4...exd4 5.Nf3 gives White good play in most lines but Scheerer says 5...Bb4+ leads to a level position with simplification on d4 and, looking over the lines, I agree with him.  Instead White can try 5.Bb5+ c6 6.Bc4.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #165 - 03/22/11 at 17:57:11
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MNb wrote on 03/22/11 at 17:26:46:
Has White anything after 4...exd4 ?


For now I'd say that 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bc4 Bb4+! with roughly equal play or maybe 6.Bb5 which I really haven't looked at is best.
« Last Edit: 03/23/11 at 07:16:36 by Glenn Snow »  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #164 - 03/22/11 at 17:26:46
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Has White anything after 4...exd4 ?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #163 - 03/22/11 at 17:23:41
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 03/22/11 at 00:27:45:
SWJediknight wrote on 03/07/11 at 10:54:02:
Reading over the suggested lines (and checking them with Fritz) it seems that White can practically force compensation-for-a-pawn lines with 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2


Actually I don't think White has any compensation at all after 5...Nc6. (Was this move mentioned in Kaissiber? I can't find the issue in question.) Anyway, what does White do now? Black is going to play the same way as in the 5 Bd3 main line; i.e. 5 Qe2 Nc6 6 Nf3 Qd5! and I don't see how swapping Bd3 for Qe2 has helped White; e.g. 7 Nc3 Bb4 8 Bd2 Bxc3 (8...Qa5!?) 9 Bxc3 f6 and Black is just a solid pawn up. Or am I missing something?


5...Nc6 was one of the improvements I found also.  Actually, to be more precise, it's a move one of my opponents showed me in a blitz game on ICC.  However, I think White's play can be improved over Scheerer's analysis in the old main line of 5.Bd3 with sufficient compensation for White.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #162 - 03/22/11 at 00:27:45
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SWJediknight wrote on 03/07/11 at 10:54:02:
Reading over the suggested lines (and checking them with Fritz) it seems that White can practically force compensation-for-a-pawn lines with 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2


Actually I don't think White has any compensation at all after 5...Nc6. (Was this move mentioned in Kaissiber? I can't find the issue in question.) Anyway, what does White do now? Black is going to play the same way as in the 5 Bd3 main line; i.e. 5 Qe2 Nc6 6 Nf3 Qd5! and I don't see how swapping Bd3 for Qe2 has helped White; e.g. 7 Nc3 Bb4 8 Bd2 Bxc3 (8...Qa5!?) 9 Bxc3 f6 and Black is just a solid pawn up. Or am I missing something?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #161 - 03/22/11 at 00:17:42
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Gambit wrote on 03/21/11 at 19:31:28:
Earlier, in post #113, I posted my opinion of Scheerer's analysis of the Gunderam Attack in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. That line goes:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6

Considered the key move by Scheerer.


No, 6...h6 is considered the key move by Scheerer.

6...exf3 7 Qxf3 c6 is a fairly unimportant sideline, in which Scheerer says that White has a definite initiative, even without having seen your improvement 14 Nb5! in one of the subvariations.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #160 - 03/22/11 at 00:01:57
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SWJediknight wrote on 03/21/11 at 23:38:15:
I've had another read through the chapter on 4...e3, and interestingly (in relation to post #155) in the 5.Bxe3 g6 line Scheerer recommends that White continues with Qd2 and 0-0-0, but also recommends that Black avoids "castling into it" and instead meets h2-h4 with ...h7-h5 and keeps the king in the middle.

This looks a bit like the Argentinean Attack: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.f3 b5 7.h4 h5 8.Nh3. It looks to me like Black has an inferior version after 4...e3 etc.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #159 - 03/21/11 at 23:38:15
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In any case there's a clear message (reading through the book and checking over the lines): 6.h4 is looking pretty viable for White as an ambitious alternative to 6.g5 in the Vienna Defence.   I don't think this 14.Nb5! idea changes a great deal in that respect, as Scheerer nonetheless concluded that 6...exf3 probably wasn't the most critical.  With all due respect I think the book as a whole is significantly more convincing than those UON articles that I've seen.

I've had another read through the chapter on 4...e3, and interestingly (in relation to post #155) in the 5.Bxe3 g6 line Scheerer recommends that White continues with Qd2 and 0-0-0, but also recommends that Black avoids "castling into it" and instead meets h2-h4 with ...h7-h5 and keeps the king in the middle.  It's true that the pawn on f3 makes a big difference in those "Black castles early" ...g6 lines (revising the objective assessment from "=" to "+/-") but even so, in view of this it's quite surprising that he didn't consider Black's alternatives to (4...exf3 5.Nxf3 g6) 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.  But then again, that chapter on the "Long Bogo" has achieved what the book's foreword stated (stimulating an objective debate on the subject).
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #158 - 03/21/11 at 23:25:06
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Gambit wrote on 03/21/11 at 19:31:28:
  I have known about the whole 10 Be3 - 14 Nb5! line for many years now. However, I kept it secret, until such time came to release it.

It's very smart of you to release it, as Rybka gives 14.Nb5! in a split second. If you had saved it longer somebody else might have got the credits.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #157 - 03/21/11 at 19:31:28
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Earlier, in post #113, I posted my opinion of Scheerer's analysis of the Gunderam Attack in the Vienna Defense to the BDG. That line goes:

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6

Considered the key move by Scheerer.

8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rxc2 Qxf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

Now Scheerer on page 123 gives the dubious 14 Nf3? Nh6 15 Rcd2 a6! and White's edge is evaporating, while Black has 5 pawns for the piece. Methinks I posted an improvement over this weak line elsewhere here. Here is a game that shows how White must play.

Zilbermints - ocabrera
Internet Chess Club
3 0 rated blitz
21 March 2011


1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 Bf5 5 g4 Bg6 6 h4 ef3 7 Qxf3 c6 8 h5 Bxc2 9 Rh2 Qxd4 10 Be3 Qxg4 11 Rc2 Qf3 12 Nxf3 Nxh5 13 000 Nd7

So far as in the book. Now comes the improvement.

14 Nb5!! cxb5 15 Bxb5 Nf6 16 Rc7 Rd8 17 Ne5 e6 18 Nxd7 Nxd7 19 Bxd7+ Ke7 20 Bc8+ Kf6 21 Rxd8, 1-0.

  I have known about the whole 10 Be3 - 14 Nb5! line for many years now. However, I kept it secret, until such time came to release it. With the publication of Scheerer's book, and the faulty 14 Nf3? line, the time has come to release the secret analyses and games prepared and played years ago. These date to at least 2002 !
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #156 - 03/08/11 at 03:40:55
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Databases suggest that most of the time Black castles quickly, and 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 is the only line given in Fritz 10's openings book.  Maybe it's just an automatic reaction by analogy with the Studier Attack, when Black has no good alternative to quick castling, but a few of us agreed a couple of pages ago that Black can consider alternatives in the "Long Bogo".

I gave the sample line 6...c6 7.Qd2 Bg7 8.0-0-0 Bf5 9.Bh6 Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nbd7 11.Bc4 e6 12.h3 Qe7 13.g4 Be4 14.Rhf1 0-0-0, with a similar kind of situation to  Lev Gutman's recommendation against the early ...c6 lines.  Black still has the extra pawn but White has a lot of pressure down the f-file and Black has weaknesses on the kingside.

The idea of deferring ...Bg7 even longer is pretty interesting as well.  After 7...Nbd7 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5, I would personally be happy to take White after 11.0-0 (I think castling kingside makes more sense here) and aiming for long-term chances down the e and f-files.  White can also try 8.0-0-0, e.g. 8...Nb6 9.Bd3 Be6 10.Rhe1 with ideas of Bxf6 and Ne5, and if 10...Bg7 then 11.Bh6.  I don't think these lines are objectively any better for Black than automatic castling (all of these resulting positions seem about equal), but they reduce the risk of being mated quickly.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #155 - 03/07/11 at 21:44:00
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 02/25/11 at 22:12:52:
Dragonslayer wrote on 02/25/11 at 15:08:54:
Yes 6.Bf4 is interesting.
But what if Black does not play ...Bg7 and castles into the attack. Any modern/Pirc player will recognize this consideration against the 150 attack, while it is also seen in the Dragon that Black postpones 0-0.
6.Bf4 c6 was mentioned in Kaissiber IIRC, but only briefly. Scheerer's book simply continues 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.


I dunno. After 6 Bf4 Black hardly ever plays anything but 6...Bg7 (in the databases), and after 7 Qd2 hardly anything but 7...0-0. Okay, 6...c6 is sometimes seen, but then 7 Qd2 is nearly always met by 7...Bg7 and 8 0-0-0 by 8...0-0, so it comes to the same thing.

Also, it seems from the stats (a rough 50:50 percentage split) that Black has nothing objectively to worry about anyway. If 6 Bf4 was shown to be terribly strong then Black might have to think about other moves, but it only really gives White a playable position.


Against a GM in one game I had 6...c6 7.Qd2 Nbd7 (please explain why Black should be in such a rush to castle?) 8.Bc4 Nb6 9.Bb3 a5 10.a4 Nd5 and I never got anything. Rybka thinks it is almost compensation, but any concrete try soon runs out of steam.
I believe I gave this line in the forum some years ago.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #154 - 03/07/11 at 10:54:02
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Reading over the suggested lines (and checking them with Fritz) it seems that White can practically force compensation-for-a-pawn lines with 4.Nxe4 Qxd4 5.Qe2, 4...exd4 5.Bb5+ and 4...Nc6 5.Bb5 (in both cases with a quick Qe2 to follow). 

After both 4...exd4 and 4...Nc6, 5.Nf3 is also reasonable for White but has the drawback of making it hard to avoid simplifcations on d4 after 4...exd4 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.c3 Bf5 and 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qd5.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #153 - 03/07/11 at 05:05:06
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Gambit wrote on 03/06/11 at 15:10:28:
Well, after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5 there is another option open: the Rasmussen Attack, 4 Nge2.
But, if you want to keep play sharp and complicated, 4 Nxe4 is the way to go.


My copy of the book has just come to hand.

Scheerer devotes no less than 36 pages to the Lemberger Variation dealing with all four main
variations in depth.

4. dxe5
4.Nge2
4.Qh5
4.Nxe4

I have not yet compared Scheerer's analysis with my own secret analysis but what he says is very very good. What I like is that has found lots of antidotes given in various books and dealt with them very well.

Australia's newest FM has been giving me considerable trouble with the Lemberger so I have been examining it in depth. 
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #152 - 03/06/11 at 15:10:28
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Well, after 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 e5 there is another option open: the Rasmussen Attack, 4 Nge2.
But, if you want to keep play sharp and complicated, 4 Nxe4 is the way to go.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #151 - 03/06/11 at 06:51:45
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Quote:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?
At least in my preliminary analysis, The mainline of the Blackmar Diemer that starts after 5.Nxf3 would be much harder to 'refute', people have stated problems with Scheerer's analysis on this forum and rightly so, but since 3...e5 would be my move against the BDG, I investigated them only for academic interest. Yes i hate that term 'refute' as well, but i was just wondering what Scheerer recommends against this.


He believes 4.Nxe4 is White's best option.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #150 - 03/06/11 at 02:33:17
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Sorry, my comment was not clear about 1.d4 Nf6.
I meant after 1.d4 d5 the book would recommend 2.e4 instead of 2.Nc3, avoiding the line 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 Nxe4!
As far as 4.Nxe4 dxe4 5.Be3 goes as suggested, Black can hold on to the pawn with 5...Bf5 and that seems good for Black given by Dembo.
That's kind of why i thought the Blackmar Diemer Gambit wasn't really played against 1...Nf6, unless you started with like, 2.f3!?

Anyway, i was more interested in how Scheerer simply responds to:
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5!?
At least in my preliminary analysis, The mainline of the Blackmar Diemer that starts after 5.Nxf3 would be much harder to 'refute', people have stated problems with Scheerer's analysis on this forum and rightly so, but since 3...e5 would be my move against the BDG, I investigated them only for academic interest. Yes i hate that term 'refute' as well, but i was just wondering what Scheerer recommends against this.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #149 - 03/05/11 at 23:58:25
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Fair enough, SWJediKnight.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #148 - 03/05/11 at 21:48:58
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Actually, 5.Bf4 e6 6.f3 e3 isn't an unreasonable idea for Black as White has to waste a tempo with Bc1-f4xe3 (though 6...Bd6! is much stronger in that line).   Conversely after 5.Be3 e6, 6.f3 is indeed probably best.

The critical tests of 5.Be3 are 5...Bf5 (when 6.g4, or perhaps 6.Bc4 and 7.g4, is the best approach) and 5...Nc6.  Against 5...Nc6 Scheerer offers 6.d5 Nb4 7.c4 e6 8.a3 Nd3+ 9.Bxd3 cxd3 10.Qxd3, which is fine for White, though I think 7...e5 8.a3 Na6 is far more critical and may well be a bit better for Black.  Instead perhaps 5...Nc6 6.Ne2 with the idea 7.Ng3 (reminiscent of the Zilbermints Gambit in the Englund) is worth considering, as 6...Bf5 7.Ng3 Bg6, attempting to transpose to favourable 5...Bf5 6.Ng3 lines, doesn't work for Black after 8.d5!.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #147 - 03/05/11 at 02:06:15
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Yes, you are right. After 5 Be3, Black cannot chicken out of the gambit. Say, 5...e6 6 f3! and the chicken move 6...e3 is no longer allowed.

Grin
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #146 - 03/05/11 at 01:42:52
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My copy should reach my mail box on Monday morning.

Thanks to all the people who have posted on the BDG on this site.

My opinion is that "The slower the time control the sounder Gambits must be". Based on this rule of thumb then BDG should be unleashed in blitz and allegro and against selected opponents at tournament speed. Nevertheless it  gets reasonable results in ICCF fixed openings tournaments.

One further point is to unleash it in late rounds in weekenders. It is much harder to defend when you are tired then it is to attack.

Next weekend is a big Australian weekender with players ranging from GM's to novices. Maybe I will mix up BDGs and Veresovs from "A ferocious Opening repertoire" by Lakdawala. Incidentally the Lakdawala book should be useful to any player of the BDG as it gives interesting lines against all sorts of attempts by black to dodge the BDG. Some I have played for yonks for example "The Albin-Chatard attack which scores really well on my 6,000,00 game database. I misses a couple of places where white can transpose back to the BDG but the this may not be respectable enough for Lakdawala.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #145 - 03/04/11 at 21:23:43
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The Hubsch (1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4!? Nxe4) is covered in the last chapter of the book.  Christoph recommends 5.Bf4, which used to be my preference, but having seen the strength of 5...e6 6.Qd2 c5! (mentioned and correctly assessed as bad for White in the book, and also suggested independently by MNb) I'm not so sure, and today my preference would be 5.Be3 which is analysed in the book without any clear-cut objections being uncovered for Black.

Tim McGrew covered 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4? in one if his online articles but it essentially gives up a pawn for a fraction of a pawn's worth of compensation- at least after 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 White has some hope of getting decent compensation against decent play!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #144 - 03/04/11 at 17:43:58
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Arcticmonkey wrote on 02/28/11 at 16:18:28:
There's another line which sort of avoids it after 1.d4 Nf6, which is 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 Nxe4! (However i think the book recommends 2.e4 so it avoids that). 


What, 1.d4 Nf6 2.e4??
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #143 - 03/04/11 at 15:56:40
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SWJediknight wrote on 02/18/11 at 21:04:05:
I got the book yesterday.  Interestingly Scheerer recommends a lot of the same lines as I use, but I think looking over his analysis of the Hubsch, if anything 5.Be3 (which I hadn't previously considered) may be a better bet than 5.Bf4, as he reached the same conclusion as MNb and I reached in the other thread; I posted that after 6.Qd2 c5
Quote:
In that line White appears to have nothing better than 7.0-0-0 Nc6 8.Ne2 cxd4 9.Nxd4 Nxd4 10.Qxd4 Qxd4 11.Rxd4 Bc5 12.Rxe4 Bxf2 and Black maintains the extra pawn in a simplified position

Not a problem if one's opponents keep playing 5...Bd6 (as in one of my own games back in 2007) and allowing White decent compensation, but I think this ...c5 idea makes 5.Bf4 problematic.

I've only skim-read bits of it so far but it looks like an excellent book with very thorough coverage of the lines, and certainly makes a better attempt at being objective than any other analysis that I've seen of this opening (and yes, 6.Bf4 followed by Qd2 is the recommendation against 5...g6, with White coming out quite well).


Disclaimer: I am no BDG expert.  But I was looking at the Bf4 line on the train to work for fun and one idea is to omit Qd2 and play 6. Bc4 instead, anticipating 6....c5 and planning to push with 7.d5.  White plays a similar line in the French Nf6 Tarrasch after the unusual Ne4.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #142 - 03/03/11 at 07:48:53
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motörhead wrote on 03/02/11 at 21:59:09:
MNb wrote on 03/02/11 at 20:50:38:
Well, heck, so the book is not perfect. What book is? It's a poor chessplayer who switches his/her brains off when browsing through a book.

In the line 13.Qh5 the verdict Black is better is a bit premature. After 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Nxd8 Kxd8 White has quite a lead in development. Now I am not sure how to continue - White can go for the King with 18.Re8+ or safely round up pawn d4.
Another option is 13.Qd2. Black has several defensive options, but chosing a safe one is no cup of tea:
a) 13...f5 14.Rae1 (the simple idea) fxe4 15.Rxe4 Bb4 16.Qxb4 Qxg5 17.Rxe6 Kd8 18.Rf7 Kc8 19.Ree7.
b) 13...Bc5 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nxh7.
c) 13...Be7 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nf6+ Qxf6 16.Rxf6 Bxf6 17.Ne4 and Rybka thinks Black is slightly better (probably because of counting wood) but I don't.
d) 13...d3 might be best and now I am too lazy to find out if White is better after either 14.Rad1, 14.Rae1, 14.Nxf7 or 14.Qxd3.

Btw: have you slept 'til Hammersmith?


No man, that's simply Lemmy's law: you can't sleep til Hammersmith (which after all still is the best Motörhead-live-album yet - but this isn't the end or, eh Wink)

Thanks for your variations. You have been there before, or? May well be that you have detected that cave (hole in the variaton) first. I came across it some month ago while collecting and checking some material on the Euwe.

I havn't checked your variations yet in detail. Your are right, in the "main line" with 13.Qh5  16.Rae1 may well be more precise. I think White has to go for 18.Re8+ to tie Black down to the greatest extend. Nevertheless: The party isn't over yet, or?

On your 13.Qd2 I think your line c looks quite natural. I would hold it with Rybka. Nothing against you, as your are a creative guy. But how do you want to proceed? I don't know how White will get grips on the position, say after 17...Be5. At least the game doesn't take the normal BDG-attacking pattern, or?

So one thing should be clear: The cake isn't eaten yet. 6...c5may not be premature but deserves further consideration - or given in the chess punctuation: !? .


I'd say you're basically correct in all of this but I still think these omissions or errors are relatively minor.  As for the variation, I'm fairly confident it's dynamically equal but I'm not sure this is the best White has either so it may all be irrelevant.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #141 - 03/02/11 at 21:59:09
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MNb wrote on 03/02/11 at 20:50:38:
Well, heck, so the book is not perfect. What book is? It's a poor chessplayer who switches his/her brains off when browsing through a book.

In the line 13.Qh5 the verdict Black is better is a bit premature. After 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Nxd8 Kxd8 White has quite a lead in development. Now I am not sure how to continue - White can go for the King with 18.Re8+ or safely round up pawn d4.
Another option is 13.Qd2. Black has several defensive options, but chosing a safe one is no cup of tea:
a) 13...f5 14.Rae1 (the simple idea) fxe4 15.Rxe4 Bb4 16.Qxb4 Qxg5 17.Rxe6 Kd8 18.Rf7 Kc8 19.Ree7.
b) 13...Bc5 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nxh7.
c) 13...Be7 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nf6+ Qxf6 16.Rxf6 Bxf6 17.Ne4 and Rybka thinks Black is slightly better (probably because of counting wood) but I don't.
d) 13...d3 might be best and now I am too lazy to find out if White is better after either 14.Rad1, 14.Rae1, 14.Nxf7 or 14.Qxd3.

Btw: have you slept 'til Hammersmith?


No man, that's simply Lemmy's law: you can't sleep til Hammersmith (which after all still is the best Motörhead-live-album yet - but this isn't the end or, eh Wink)

Thanks for your variations. You have been there before, or? May well be that you have detected that cave (hole in the variaton) first. I came across it some month ago while collecting and checking some material on the Euwe.

I havn't checked your variations yet in detail. Your are right, in the "main line" with 13.Qh5  16.Rae1 may well be more precise. I think White has to go for 18.Re8+ to tie Black down to the greatest extend. Nevertheless: The party isn't over yet, or?

On your 13.Qd2 I think your line c looks quite natural. I would hold it with Rybka. Nothing against you, as your are a creative guy. But how do you want to proceed? I don't know how White will get grips on the position, say after 17...Be5. At least the game doesn't take the normal BDG-attacking pattern, or?

So one thing should be clear: The cake isn't eaten yet. 6...c5may not be premature but deserves further consideration - or given in the chess punctuation: !? .
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #140 - 03/02/11 at 20:50:38
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Well, heck, so the book is not perfect. What book is? It's a poor chessplayer who switches his/her brains off when browsing through a book.

In the line 13.Qh5 the verdict Black is better is a bit premature. After 16.Rae1 Qc6 17.Nxd8 Kxd8 White has quite a lead in development. Now I am not sure how to continue - White can go for the King with 18.Re8+ or safely round up pawn d4.
Another option is 13.Qd2. Black has several defensive options, but chosing a safe one is no cup of tea:
a) 13...f5 14.Rae1 (the simple idea) fxe4 15.Rxe4 Bb4 16.Qxb4 Qxg5 17.Rxe6 Kd8 18.Rf7 Kc8 19.Ree7.
b) 13...Bc5 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nxh7.
c) 13...Be7 14.Rae1 0-0 15.Nf6+ Qxf6 16.Rxf6 Bxf6 17.Ne4 and Rybka thinks Black is slightly better (probably because of counting wood) but I don't.
d) 13...d3 might be best and now I am too lazy to find out if White is better after either 14.Rad1, 14.Rae1, 14.Nxf7 or 14.Qxd3.

Btw: have you slept 'til Hammersmith?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #139 - 03/02/11 at 19:48:51
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Glenn Snow wrote on 03/01/11 at 06:57:52:
motörhead wrote on 02/28/11 at 22:13:11:
Well, I finally got my copy too. As I browsed through it now I quite naturally found some omissions.

E.g. The Euwe-Defence.
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 and now Christoph gives

6...h6 as "?" with 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 and 8.Bb5+! etc with the well known slaugther.
The punctuation is a bit wrong to my taste. 6...h6 deserves a "?!" perhaps. The real mistake is 7...Qxf6 "?" in my eyes. Clearly better is 7...gxf6 "!" with a struggle ahead. But this move isn't mentioned by Christoph at all.

the same is with
6...c5 which Christoph calls premature. I would sign it with "!?". Christoph gives 7.Bxf6! Qxf6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.0-0 and "sees the Queen in the firing line again" and leaves you alone - at the wrong time, since at that very moment the party is just beginning. And you will not have a clue what to do.
Best for Black ist 9...cxd4 10.Se4 "?!" in my opinion 10...Qf4! and Black is heading for advantage. But you' ll find anything of this in the book. And all of this is not really new...

What came to my mind: I once saw Christoph in some of the BDG-threads here. The book was announced yet. Christoph gave some comments here and there - and then he suddenly left the scene. And the book announced with some 192 pages went back in the pipeline.
As I now saw, Christoph finally has used a lot of the quotations in the chess.pub-forums on his now 336 pages. You may call it the wisdom of the many.
And I do not want to critisize that. There are lots of new ideas by Christoph too.
But I have the impression that Christoph was impressed by the work done here by you, folks!


The book is 336 pages so at some point an author does have to leave something out.  In the second variation after 9...cxd4 10.Ne4 Qf4, my engine thinks 11.Bxd7+ Nxd7 12.Nfg5 is decent.



First, Glenn, don't get me wrong, it is quite understandable that there have to be ommisions. But the first line (6...h6) in itself by far isn't that bad as it seems when you read the book. But after 6...h6 7.Bxf6 Black shouldn't play 7...Qxf6, clearly "?".
So to mark 6...h6 with "?" to my mind is simply not correct and the book leads wrong (sorry).
Christoph should have mentioned "7...gxf6! is the only way for Black to fight on" or sth. else like that. I know, that the problem now is, that there are no clear variations at all, cause there is simply no contact between the two teams (or armies). But a hint how to proceed would have been useful as 6...h6 is a quite normal continuation for us normals.

To the variation you gave after 6...c5 (7.Bxf6! Qxf6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.0-0 cxd4 10.Ne4 Qf4) 11.Bxd7+ Nxd7 12.Nfg5 : I got that continuation too, as it is known from the game Diemer - Terzi, Rastatt 1954. That game went on with 12...Qe3+ 13.Kh1 Be7 (13...Ne5 14.Nxe6!) 14.Rf3 and White soon won.
But in fact 12...Qe3+ is wrong. I found 12...Qe5! to be much better as now the white knights are badly tangled up - h7-h6 is threatening. If now 13.Qh5 then 13...0-0-0 14.Qxf7 h6 15.Nxe6 Qxe4 16.Nxd8 Kxd8 and Black is better.

So, sorry again, that variation isn't as easy as you might think if you browse through Christoph's book...
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #138 - 03/01/11 at 06:57:52
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motörhead wrote on 02/28/11 at 22:13:11:
Well, I finally got my copy too. As I browsed through it now I quite naturally found some omissions.

E.g. The Euwe-Defence.
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 and now Christoph gives

6...h6 as "?" with 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 and 8.Bb5+! etc with the well known slaugther.
The punctuation is a bit wrong to my taste. 6...h6 deserves a "?!" perhaps. The real mistake is 7...Qxf6 "?" in my eyes. Clearly better is 7...gxf6 "!" with a struggle ahead. But this move isn't mentioned by Christoph at all.

the same is with
6...c5 which Christoph calls premature. I would sign it with "!?". Christoph gives 7.Bxf6! Qxf6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.0-0 and "sees the Queen in the firing line again" and leaves you alone - at the wrong time, since at that very moment the party is just beginning. And you will not have a clue what to do.
Best for Black ist 9...cxd4 10.Se4 "?!" in my opinion 10...Qf4! and Black is heading for advantage. But you' ll find anything of this in the book. And all of this is not really new...

What came to my mind: I once saw Christoph in some of the BDG-threads here. The book was announced yet. Christoph gave some comments here and there - and then he suddenly left the scene. And the book announced with some 192 pages went back in the pipeline.
As I now saw, Christoph finally has used a lot of the quotations in the chess.pub-forums on his now 336 pages. You may call it the wisdom of the many.
And I do not want to critisize that. There are lots of new ideas by Christoph too.
But I have the impression that Christoph was impressed by the work done here by you, folks!


The book is 336 pages so at some point an author does have to leave something out.  In the second variation after 9...cxd4 10.Ne4 Qf4, my engine thinks 11.Bxd7+ Nxd7 12.Nfg5 is decent.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #137 - 02/28/11 at 22:13:11
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Well, I finally got my copy too. As I browsed through it now I quite naturally found some omissions.

E.g. The Euwe-Defence.
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bg5 and now Christoph gives

6...h6 as "?" with 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 and 8.Bb5+! etc with the well known slaugther.
The punctuation is a bit wrong to my taste. 6...h6 deserves a "?!" perhaps. The real mistake is 7...Qxf6 "?" in my eyes. Clearly better is 7...gxf6 "!" with a struggle ahead. But this move isn't mentioned by Christoph at all.

the same is with
6...c5 which Christoph calls premature. I would sign it with "!?". Christoph gives 7.Bxf6! Qxf6 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.0-0 and "sees the Queen in the firing line again" and leaves you alone - at the wrong time, since at that very moment the party is just beginning. And you will not have a clue what to do.
Best for Black ist 9...cxd4 10.Se4 "?!" in my opinion 10...Qf4! and Black is heading for advantage. But you' ll find anything of this in the book. And all of this is not really new...

What came to my mind: I once saw Christoph in some of the BDG-threads here. The book was announced yet. Christoph gave some comments here and there - and then he suddenly left the scene. And the book announced with some 192 pages went back in the pipeline.
As I now saw, Christoph finally has used a lot of the quotations in the chess.pub-forums on his now 336 pages. You may call it the wisdom of the many.
And I do not want to critisize that. There are lots of new ideas by Christoph too.
But I have the impression that Christoph was impressed by the work done here by you, folks!
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #136 - 02/28/11 at 21:13:54
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A child with some experience vs childs with no experience in tournament: "Ah, see, I just checkmated with 4.Qxf7. Of course it's not the best way to play as White, but my poor opponent just didn't know that! It works so it's good!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #135 - 02/28/11 at 16:18:28
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OK, i haven't read all of the posts in this forum, but i was simply wondering where the analysis of Scheerer intersects with John Cox's 'Dealing with d4 variations!?'
Basically it seems as if 3...e5 seems a much more appropriate solution than allowing White any fun with the mainlines.
Also after 1.d4 Nf6, the BDG can be avoided like, 2.f3 d6!? 3.e4 d5!? (hoping to transpose to the french and the like), as well as Dembo's more adequate solution, 2...d5 3.e4 c5!?
There's another line which sort of avoids it after 1.d4 Nf6, which is 2.Nc3 d5 3.e4 Nxe4! (However i think the book recommends 2.e4 so it avoids that).
But basically i'm just more curious about 3...e5 cause i haven't seen much about this opening even on chess pub and wondering how Scheerer deals with it.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #134 - 02/27/11 at 00:52:12
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Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Of course it is inferior, my dear chap. But you see, the other players don't know that, which is why 8...Nc6 is so infrequently seen. Moreover, I play 8 h3 in regular tournament games and win with it. So you see, 8 h3 is good for both regular and blitz chess.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #133 - 02/27/11 at 00:46:53
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I thought we'd already established that 8...Nbd7 is inferior to 8...Nc6! and allows White good attacking chances (the book also mentions this).  All the above suggests is that it's good for blitz.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #132 - 02/27/11 at 00:30:49
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Here is how the genius of Lev Zilbermintz crushes a Grandmaster in the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit:

Zilbermints - GM Enrique Rodriguez Guerrero
Internet Chess Club, 3 0 rated blitz
26 February 2011

Bogoljubow Defense
Studier-Zilbermints Attack

1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 g6 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3 Nbd7 9 Qe1 Nb6 10 Bb3 Nbd5 11 Qh4 e6 12 Bg5 Nxc3 13 bxc3 h6 14 Bxh6 Bxh6 15 Qxh6 Nh7 16 Rae1 b6 17 h4! Qf6 18 Ne5 Qg7 19 Qe3 Bb7 20 Nd7 Rfd8 21 Rxf7! Kxf7 22 Qe6 mate!
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #131 - 02/25/11 at 22:12:52
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Dragonslayer wrote on 02/25/11 at 15:08:54:
Yes 6.Bf4 is interesting.
But what if Black does not play ...Bg7 and castles into the attack. Any modern/Pirc player will recognize this consideration against the 150 attack, while it is also seen in the Dragon that Black postpones 0-0.
6.Bf4 c6 was mentioned in Kaissiber IIRC, but only briefly. Scheerer's book simply continues 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.


I dunno. After 6 Bf4 Black hardly ever plays anything but 6...Bg7 (in the databases), and after 7 Qd2 hardly anything but 7...0-0. Okay, 6...c6 is sometimes seen, but then 7 Qd2 is nearly always met by 7...Bg7 and 8 0-0-0 by 8...0-0, so it comes to the same thing.

Also, it seems from the stats (a rough 50:50 percentage split) that Black has nothing objectively to worry about anyway. If 6 Bf4 was shown to be terribly strong then Black might have to think about other moves, but it only really gives White a playable position.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #130 - 02/25/11 at 20:12:18
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I'd also been wondering about that myself, especially as in the Scandinavian "Banker" line (the same position but with an extra white pawn on f2) Fischer criticised Robatsch for castling into the attack and instead suggested ...Bg7, Bh6 Bxh6 and then ...Bf5 intending to castle queenside. 

Ironically Scheerer does briefly cover alternatives to ...Bg7 and ...0-0 in the Studier Attack, correctly (in my opinion) concluding that Black should not hold back with castling, but this is mainly because of Bc4/Ne5/Bxf7+ ideas.

I believe that as per the "Banker" line Black should play ...Bg7 quickly, but can certainly consider preparing queenside castling and answering Bh6 with ...Bxh6.  A sample line after 6...c6 could run 7.Qd2 Bg7 8.0-0-0 Bf5 9.Bh6 Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nbd7 11.Bc4 e6 12.h3 Qe7 13.g4 Be4 14.Rhf1 0-0-0 with a position that is difficult to assess, but probably about equal.  Black has serious weaknesses on the dark squares and faces pressure down the f-file, but retains an extra pawn and is in far less danger of being mated in the near future.  It reminds me a bit of the positions that arise from Lev Gutman's recommendation against those 4...c6/5...c6 lines.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #129 - 02/25/11 at 15:08:54
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Yes 6.Bf4 is interesting.
But what if Black does not play ...Bg7 and castles into the attack. Any modern/Pirc player will recognize this consideration against the 150 attack, while it is also seen in the Dragon that Black postpones 0-0.
6.Bf4 c6 was mentioned in Kaissiber IIRC, but only briefly. Scheerer's book simply continues 6...Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0.
White can still play Bh6 of course, but the position is essentially a 150 attack, where White is missing pawns on e4 and f2, and Black the one on d6.
(Compare e.g. 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 6.0-0-0 with the position after 8.0-0-0 above)
For the pawn White has one tempo (Nf3) and the f-file, while Black has opened the d-file and needn't worry about e4-e5.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #128 - 02/25/11 at 12:14:03
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Apologies- I keep missing moves out when giving variations!  I meant 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2 0-0 8.0-0-0 and now 8...c5 when 9.d5 a6 10.d6! is quite strong, as pointed out in the book, while other continuations for Black allow White good attacking chances via Bh6 and a subsequent h2-h4-h5.

The ...Bg4xf3 idea represents one key difference between this variation and the Scandinavian "Banker" line 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8 4.d4 g6 5.Nf3 Nf6 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2, when someone pointed out that ...Bg4 could be met by f3.  However I don't believe in it for Black in the BDG line either- if ...Bxf3 White gets an open g-file, and if ...Bh5 then White plays g4 and gains time with the kingside pawn roller with the g-pawn supporting the h-pawn (a similar objection exists with Black's development of the bishop to f5, so Black may be forced to develop it to d7 or e6).
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #127 - 02/24/11 at 15:57:47
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In my opinion, the Studier Attack has been over-analyzed over the years. This explains why you have so much coverage and analyses of its various sub-variations. The line with 8...Nc6 9 Qh4 Bg4! looks solid, inasmuch as it eliminates a key attacker, the Nf3, and pressures the d4-pawn. That is the reason IM Georgi Orlov and I introduced the move 8 h3.

With regard to 5...g6 6 Bf4 Bg7 7 Qd2 00 8 000, this line is indeed less analyzed than the Studier Attack. You will notice that the pesky trick ...Bg4 is no longer possible, as the d4-pawn is protected three times (Queen, Rook, Knight). Additionally, the capture ...Bxf3 might lead to an open g-file for White in some lines.
Perhaps this is the way to play against the Bogoljubow Defense in the 21st century?
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #126 - 02/24/11 at 07:27:40
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Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 17:39:30:
The second part is published in UON #27. It will be officially released after I finish proofreading it. The line 9...c6 is covered there. UON #27 is dated Jan-May 2011; UON #25, October 2009.


ok, so Smiley
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #125 - 02/23/11 at 23:24:36
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SWJediknight wrote on 01/25/11 at 20:32:27:
8...Nc6 9.d5 Na5! 10.Be2 c6 or 10.Bb3 Nxb3 11.axb3 b6 are both clearly better for Black.  9.Be3 is a better try than 9.d5, but again 9...Na5 10.Bd3 Nd5 11.Nxd5 Qxd5 is better for Black.

I haven't seen anything to change my opinion of those lines, and therefore my opinion of 8.h3.  Then again, Scheerer's analysis suggests that even 8.Qe1 might not equalise for White after 8...Nc6 9.Qh4 Bg4 (confirming ArKheiN's earlier suspicions), so this brings us back to 6.Bf4 Bg7 7.Qd2, as also recommended by Stefan Bucker in Kaissiber (the key ideas being 0-0-0, Bh6 and h2-h4-h5 in most lines, or 7...c5 8.d5 with the book pointing out the idea 9.d6! supported by the Bf4).  Theory and practice are lacking in this line, but in my opinion it looks quite promising for White.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #124 - 02/23/11 at 17:44:05
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Markovich wrote on 02/23/11 at 12:44:09:
Lev and MNb, would you please cut out the bickering about who sent what and when, and who received what and when, and get back to chess?  No one else cares about that stuff.

I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.  I believe this idea is fairly common in the Staunton.  I went on to win a short game with O-O, Qe1, Qh4 and so forth. 

But while I still doubt the merit of a3 in the situations where Lev was looking at it, this shows that there are some gambit situations where moves like a3 are called for. 


I should point out that 8 h3 in the Bogoljubow Defense is also good, so your quote applies there too.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #123 - 02/23/11 at 17:39:30
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The second part is published in UON #27. It will be officially released after I finish proofreading it. The line 9...c6 is covered there. UON #27 is dated Jan-May 2011; UON #25, October 2009.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #122 - 02/23/11 at 13:41:44
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Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
I published plenty of articles with materials that were not included in the Blackmar-Diemer gambit book. These include the following:

(...)

Fourth, since we are talking about the Vienna Defense, 4...Bf5, there is no mention of 5 Bg5! the Polish Attack.

(...)

So, 7 moves, and only 2 are covered! Why is it that there was an omission?


because - to all those other five moves and to all the other lines you mention:

Quote:
Upon closer reading, you will discover that this is neither a repertoire book (which treats only a few selected lines) nor a complete guide (which incorporates every possible crossroads). First and foremost, this book is meant as a stimulus to kindle an objective debate about the Blackmar-Diemer, and to introduce the opening to players who were previously unaware of it (like me). To these ends, it provides a sound basis by presenting the elementary concepts of this opening as well as the most important old ideas and many new ideas for both sides in the most critical variations.


i.e. those lines are not included because the author (presumably) does not consider them to be "the most critical variations".

Indeed, in the Euwe, for example, he could have written about 6 a3, 6 Bc4, 6 Bd3, 6 Be3, 6 Bf4, 6 Ne5 - but he didn't because 6 Bg5 is the critical variation and no other moves are really any good: 6 a3 is too soon and too slow; 6 Ne5 is also too soon; 6 Be3, 6 Bc4 and 6 Bf4 all misplace these pieces; 6 Bd3 allows 6...c5 (which is briefly mentioned). Hence virtually the entire chapter is concerned with 6 Bg5 which is White's only really promising move.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
Fifth, the Studier-Zilbermints (aka Orlov's Line, Delayed Studier) Attack in the Bogoljubow Defense.That line goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 de4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 exf3 5 Nxf6 g6 6 Bc4 Bg7 7 00 00 8 h3!

Now, according to Scheerer, page 174, 8...Nc6 is strong here. However, the rest is just silly moves again. Personally, I never really play 9 Bg5, but instead, 9 d5 or 9 Ne2.


9 Bg5 and 9 Be3 are the only moves played in the main databases. Of course 9 d5 and 9 Ne2 are also possible but you have yet to show why these moves are objectively any good either and why, therefore, an author should seriously consider them and write about them (without prior prompting).

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 17:15:23:
Sixth, the Zilbermints Gambit in the Euwe Defense to the BDG. That variation goes 1 d4 d5 2 e4 dxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 f3 ef3 5 Nxf3 e6 6 Bg5 Be7 7 Bd3 Nc6 8 00 Nxd4 9 Kh1!

Scheerer analyzes 9...Nxf3 10 Qxf3, 9...Nc6, 9...h6 as the responses against my gambit. He does not analyze 9...c5 or  9...Nf5 lines.


But he does also give 9...c6 ("may be the most promising line for Black"). Here, too, you have yet to show why this isn't just good for Black (who is two pawns up with a very solid position). Of course it's variation V in your UON article, but the first part (Sept 2009) only got as far as variation III and we are still to see the rest.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #121 - 02/23/11 at 13:31:09
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I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.


Even in that line (assuming you mean 1.d4) 7.a3 doesn't look very much to the point. In contrast 7.Ng5 - intending Nxh7 or Bxh7 - looks quite promising.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #120 - 02/23/11 at 12:44:09
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Lev and MNb, would you please cut out the bickering about who sent what and when, and who received what and when, and get back to chess?  No one else cares about that stuff.

I was thinking about my condemnation of Lev's a3 idea in a BDG situation, and I recalled a game of mine that went 1.e4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 e6 6.Bd3 Nc6.  Here, wishing to preserve my bishop on the b1-h7 diagonal, I played 7.a3.  I believe this idea is fairly common in the Staunton.  I went on to win a short game with O-O, Qe1, Qh4 and so forth. 

But while I still doubt the merit of a3 in the situations where Lev was looking at it, this shows that there are some gambit situations where moves like a3 are called for. 
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #119 - 02/23/11 at 10:15:28
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Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 06:38:10:
That said, had my opponents played the critical lines in their  games, I would have included them. So I do not understand where your perception of "shitty attitude" comes from.

An honest author doesn't wait for his opponents to look at the critical lines, he tries to find them himself. And if I can find them in a few seconds (I did while reading the introduction of the first part of your article, even without a board) you certainly can too. Which means that you haven't made any effort, which is confirmed by your last two posts.
That's a shitty attitude for an author on chess openings, especially for one who has years of experience on the subject and boasts that he knows more of it than a certain titled author.

Gambit wrote on 02/23/11 at 06:38:10:
Next, you pointed out that it took 2 years to get the article. I stated for the record why it took so long. And yes, I kept my word.

So you do mind or you wouldn't continue on this subject. Well, that's your problem.
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #118 - 02/23/11 at 06:38:10
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It must be repeat, pointed out that I based my article on the games that were played at the time. So as an author, I did my job. You, my dear sir, are talking to a former Executive Editor of the Rutgers-Newark Observer, the student newspaper of Rutgers University, Newark campus. I know quite a bit about reporting, thank you very much. That said, had my opponents played the critical lines in their  games, I would have included them. So I do not understand where your perception of "shitty attitude" comes from.

Next, you pointed out that it took 2 years to get the article. I stated for the record why it took so long. And yes, I kept my word.

Last, Gutman's recommendation looks good enough to me. Whether it is the best line is something only time will tell. Who knows, maybe there are other lines, just waiting to be discovered.
  
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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #117 - 02/23/11 at 01:56:04
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Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
I should point out two things. First, I did try sending you the article by email a couple of times, but your computer never got it! I finally resent it, and you received it, MNb.
Which is weird, as nobody else has ever complained about it. Never mind, my purpose was to point out that you kept your word.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
If they did not find the "critical" moves, why, that is their problem.
In a game, yes. For an author this is a shitty attitude.

Gambit wrote on 02/22/11 at 20:51:35:
However, briefly, I must agree with Lev Gutman's ideas of playing versus ...c6 as stated here earlier.
So we in the end agree that 4...c6 5.Bc4 exf3 6.Nxf3 Bf5 7.Bg5 a la Gutman is White's best chance?
  

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Re: NEW BDG BOOK
Reply #116 - 02/23/11 at 00:42:12
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I just think that slow moves like a3 are pretty silly when you're a pawn down in exchange for a surplus of activity.  In that situation, you really have to depress the accelerator pedal and get your pieces out and maximize your threats.  You have to inflict some damage, force some compromises, before your opponent catches up in activity.  I'm sure that Lev the chess player knows this very well.  I think that Lev the BDG advocate has led him into some strange reasoning, but that in fact, Lev the player knows pretty well how to play gambit positions.
  

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