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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New Ruy Book for Black (Read 14742 times)
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #28 - 10/30/09 at 19:57:24
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Recently I have been studying this book (mainly the parts of it relating to the Marshal Attack) and generally I quit like it. However the author’s 16…Qh6 recommendation in the “rook shuffle” variation still doesn’t fully convince me. After
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
O-O 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1
Qh4 14.g3 Qh3 15.Re4 g5 16.Qf1 Qh6
(“This move is incredibly important” - MP) 17.Re1 while preempting …f5-f4 (which can generally be met with f4!), White is ready to meet 17…Bh3 with the tactical idea 18.Bxg5! Qh5 19.Bd1!. 17…Kh8 (superior to 17…f5 as shown in the book). Now the author analyses 18.Nd2 and 18.h4, showing decent compensation. However, I suggest 18.a4!? as an improvement for White.
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The c1 bishop is still eyeing g5 while White intends to go axb5 next. For instance: 18…f5 (I doubt Black has full comp after 18…Bf5 19.axb5 axb5 20.Rxa8 Rxa8 21.Nd2. Still I can’t find something convincing for Black here. Maybe 16…Qh5 is the move, as shown by micawber, earlier on this thread) 19.f4! (19.axb5 f4! gives Black strong counterplay) 19…gxf4 20.Bxd5 cxd5 21.Bxf4 with an edge for White.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #27 - 09/15/09 at 14:22:41
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Do you expect a early pawn sacrifice by Black is likely to win by force? If you sacrifice a pawn as Black in a known theoretical position, I think you just have to accept the consequences that with best play you're only going to draw. If you want to find some riskier alternatives that don't lead to a forced draw but might leave you worse with best play, you could either use a database and some strong engines and do your own work, or check other books on the Marshall, for instance Quality Chess' Attacking the Spanish.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #26 - 09/15/09 at 13:55:21
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I just got the book and noticed there are a lot of forced draws that either White or Black can choose. I want to take up this defense but I don't like the idea of White being able to force a draw or the idea that black's best option in some lines is forcing a draw. Has anyone else gone through these lines and have any insight about this "problem"?
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #25 - 08/10/09 at 22:38:23
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In the first chapter in the variation: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4 14.g3 Qh3 15.Be3 Bg4 16.Qd3 Rae8 he gives  to 17.Nd2 Re6! but what about 17...Nf4?
  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #24 - 08/05/09 at 01:58:51
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Please! Someone give some more info on this book!   Cry
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #23 - 07/30/09 at 09:17:44
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Does the author recommend lines for black that lead to force draws? And if so, does he offer any alternatives for black to play for a win?
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #22 - 06/24/09 at 08:39:02
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Thx Mnb.

I actually dont know exactly where the Simelink games came from.
My last commercial bought databases were Harding's Ultra database and a standard big database from 2007!. So i must have downloaded the games from somewhere:
Janosi - Simmelink (2008, 2 different games)
Janosi - Simmelink (2007, 1 game)
Bocanegra-Simmelink (2007, 1 game).

I have now digested 4 chapters of FtRL, and my opinion remains the same. I discovered several inaccuracies, omissions and errors (only some of them severe). but on the bright side:
There are also bits of original analysis and new ideas.
For me the book is a good source of inspiration, and has led me to improve my corr. opening repertoire in several lines.




  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #21 - 06/24/09 at 01:29:28
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Maybe that's true for Chessbase, but not for Harding. Anyhow, here are some corr games to be found for free:

http://www.iccf.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=482&Itemid...
  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #20 - 06/23/09 at 10:53:53
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That was my point with writing "two different worlds".

Thanks for answering my question. Never heard of these corr specific databases.

They probably keep the corr games by them self in order to "force" people to buy two products instead on just one. $ Money $.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #19 - 06/23/09 at 09:40:23
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Viking wrote on 06/23/09 at 08:55:08:
OTB and corr is a bit like two different worlds. The corr games dont show up i TWIC (i think). Are there separate databases for corrgames?


Well, OTB and corr are both chess games, and they do share opening theory and novelties, don't they? It's a pity Chessbase does not include any corr games in their Megabase/Bigbase series.

Having said this there are excellent corr games collections around:
* Tim Hardings collection: UltraCorr (previously MegaCorr 4)
* Chessbase sells: Corr Database 2009 (this product  is updated every two years)

P.S. I was asking for a source for the Simmelink/2008 games as they do not show up in Corr Database 2009, probable too new.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #18 - 06/23/09 at 08:55:08
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micawber wrote on 06/20/09 at 07:37:41:
(1) I feel that the author may have underestimated the importance of correspondence games.


I often see this complain on this forum - probably because there are quite a few corr players here...

OTB and corr is a bit like two different worlds. The corr games dont show up i TWIC (i think). Are there separate databases for corrgames?
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #17 - 06/22/09 at 13:56:51
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Thanks for that new idea in the Marshall! Minor note: the move list correctly goes 21. Bd2 Bf5 22. Nc5 Rf7 for Shirov-Akopian, 2007. (The diagram is fine.)

Where did you come across the 2008 corr games by J.Simmelink? I don't know if we can really blame Mr. Pavlovic for not yet having found these latest corr games. I haven't seen them either!  Huh
« Last Edit: 06/22/09 at 20:10:44 by Papageno »  
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micawber
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #16 - 06/20/09 at 07:37:41
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This is not to say that the book is error free. As with all opening books you will have to use your own brain as well and not follow the author blindly. Tot illustrate in the second chapter (15.Re4,g5 16.Qf1, Pavlovic takes 16...Qh6 as his main variation. To motivate this he observes that 16....Qh5 is in a crisis because of
16....Qh5 17.Nd2!,f5 18.Bd1!
This illustrates how up to date this book is, as this variation only appeared in GM practice in 2007 (adopted by Svidler and Valejo Pons and Shirov).
Any theory book or encyclopaedia will state black is Ok after 17...f5 based on old analysis by Shamkovich (and also after any other White 17th move alternative).
Pavlovic's illustration in fact follows Shirov-Akopian, 2007:
with 18....Qh6 19.Re1,f4 20.Ne4,Bc7 21.Nc5 arriving at the following position.


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Akopian now played 22......Rf7 23.Qe2,Rf8 24.Qh5 and lost an inferior endgame.

But this is not the end of the story. Missing in Pavlovic book is that
Black has a better alternative, found by J.Simmelink who played four important correspondence games in 2008 that show how black can gain sufficient compensation.

22...,fxg 23.hxg (23.fxg,Bh3 unclear), Nf4!! (a knight sac) 24.gxf,gxf

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And Black with threats like ...Bh3 or ....Rf6-g6 or....Kh8-Rg8+ had sufficient compensation in his threats against white's king.

This illustrates both the strength and the slight weaknesses of Pavlovic's book:
Strength
(1) Each variation is well introduced, showing the fundamental ideas behind the variations. I was for instance well pleased that this is one of the first books that clearly states the importance of a black minority attack on whites queen side (something I have repeatedly argued in other posts on the forum).
(2) Repertoire choices are well motivated.
(3) Emphasis on recent material

Slight weaknesses
(1) I feel that the author may have underestimated the importance of correspondence games.
(2) From my examination of the first chapter I deduce that he did not
(or insufficiently) consult Harding's CD-ROM "The Total Marshall" as some strong innovations in old classical lines are missing. Unfortunately this cant be verified because as I allready remarked, a list of sources is missing.

Nevertheless this is a very usefull book, thoughtfully put together by the author. And in fact the first book that gives a coherent treatment on the anti-marshall variations (alternatives to 8.c3), capturing all innovations since 1989 (when Nunn/Harding was published).
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #15 - 06/20/09 at 00:07:25
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micawber wrote on 06/19/09 at 16:06:32:
He advocates 5...Bd6 which is slightly unusual.
And yep, the choice of variations against white deviations, does
not correspond to my opening repertoire and taste.


Thank you for asnwering this question.
  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #14 - 06/19/09 at 16:06:32
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He advocates 5...Bd6 which is slightly unusual.
And yep, the choice of variations against white deviations, does
not correspond to my opening repertoire and taste.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #13 - 06/19/09 at 13:31:40
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My copy hasn't arrived yet.  Out of curiosity, what does he advocate against the exchange variation?  It's not as if we lack published material on the exchange, so I'm wondering if maybe it's something a little unusual.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #12 - 06/19/09 at 00:08:41
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Micawber,

thanks for the feedback, as this is a book i was planning to get.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #11 - 06/18/09 at 23:12:48
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I'v got the Pavlovic book and it looks well balanced:
(a) 65 pages on the marshall attack with lots of attention for
lines that became fashionable in the last 7 years.
(b) 65 pages on the anti marshall
(c )35 pages on white's 4th,5th and 6th deviations.
Indeed a complete black repertoire, where for critical lines, black is given two alternatives.

Pavlovic also has found a good balance between analysis and explanations, which makes the second part on the anti-marshall quite good.

One critical note though:
The book does not have a listing of consulted sources, and hardly any correspondence games have been quoted. This is a bit peculiar in the classical Marshall lines, where a great number of innovations have occurred in correspondence play.

Overall this is a very useful book for those who want to take up the Marshall attack.
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #10 - 06/12/09 at 11:36:43
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Pavlovics book has been released, there is a pdf extract on www.everymanchess.com

Looks quite interesting as he plays the Marshall quite often. Will be interesting to compare it with the qualitychessbook to be published in july
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #9 - 05/18/09 at 21:23:52
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"The Ruy Lopez Revisited: Offbeat Weapons and Unexplored Resources"
by Ivan Sokolov is another book coming out at the end of the year. Seems like publishers in recent years are finally giving e5 respect (or perhaps it's more popular to answer this way than it was in the 80's and 90's).
  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #8 - 05/04/09 at 16:51:37
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Mortal Games wrote on 05/04/09 at 14:24:07:
Here is the table of contents:


Preface 5
Introduction: The Ideas Behind the Marshall Attack 7

Part One: Gambit Lines

1 The Main Line 15
2 The Modern Rook Shuffle: 15 Re4 26
3 The Mysterious Retreat: 13 Re2 40
4 The Kevitz Variation: 12 Bxd5 cxd5 13 d4 45
5 The Dangerous 12 d3 49
6 The Tricky 12 g3 64
7 Declining the Marshall 69

Part Two: Anti-Marshall Lines

8 The 8 h3 Anti‐Marshall 75
9 The 8 a4 Anti‐Marshall 96
10 The 8 d4 Anti‐Marshall 107
11 The Steinitz Variation: 8 d3 119
________

Part Three: Other Lines
12 The Worrall Attack 130
13 The Delayed Exchange Variation 137
14 Early d4 and Nc3 Variations 144
15 The Exchange Variation 156
Index of Variations 168


Thanks MG, now it strikes me that part three looks a little short to me. Especially for a club player.
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:37:16 by Markovich »  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #7 - 05/04/09 at 15:38:41
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Since this thread popped back up, I have edited the initial post so as to employ proper use of capitalization.

Future posts with excessive capitalization, particularly in the subject, will be summarily deleted.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #6 - 05/04/09 at 14:24:07
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Here is the table of contents:


Preface 5
Introduction: The Ideas Behind the Marshall Attack 7

Part One: Gambit Lines

1 The Main Line 15
2 The Modern Rook Shuffle: 15 Re4 26
3 The Mysterious Retreat: 13 Re2 40
4 The Kevitz Variation: 12 Bxd5 cxd5 13 d4 45
5 The Dangerous 12 d3 49
6 The Tricky 12 g3 64
7 Declining the Marshall 69

Part Two: Anti-Marshall Lines

8 The 8 h3 Anti‐Marshall 75
9 The 8 a4 Anti‐Marshall 96
10 The 8 d4 Anti‐Marshall 107
11 The Steinitz Variation: 8 d3 119
________

Part Three: Other Lines
12 The Worrall Attack 130
13 The Delayed Exchange Variation 137
14 Early d4 and Nc3 Variations 144
15 The Exchange Variation 156
Index of Variations 168
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:38:01 by Markovich »  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #5 - 04/06/09 at 19:07:34
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Yeah, but I think the maybe the guy bit off more than he can chew when he signed off to write this book?...

This is one game I found where he plays the Black side of an Xchange Ruy:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1207237

Seems like a good way to play...
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:37:43 by Markovich »  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #4 - 04/06/09 at 18:54:36
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It is supposed to be a Complete Repertoire vs Ruy Lopez so the Anti-Marshalls are supposed to be covered if the Marshall is the main weapon of the book.
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:38:19 by Markovich »  
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Re: NEW RUY BOOK FOR BLACK
Reply #3 - 04/06/09 at 16:21:20
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And what about the anti-Marshall (8.a4, 8.h3 etc)?
  
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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #2 - 04/06/09 at 13:20:00
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"Incredibly common," now there's an oxymoron for you.  But yes, if this book is done well will be quite interesting.  I would think it would be a challenge for the author to treat the Marshall and "other Spanish" well in a single volume.
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:38:37 by Markovich »  

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Re: New Ruy Book for Black
Reply #1 - 04/06/09 at 10:44:20
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I wonder what he'll suggest against the Exchange and Delayed Exchange variations. Also of interest to me is 5.d4.
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 18:39:17 by Markovich »  

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New Ruy Book for Black
01/29/09 at 14:13:13
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Fighting the Ruy Lopez
Milos Pavlovic

The Ruy Lopez is incredibly common at all levels of chess, and everyone who plays 1 e4 e5 as Black needs to have a reliable antidote to this powerful opening. In this book, Grandmaster and Lopez expert Milos Pavlovic provides the answer. Drawing upon his many years of experience facing the Lopez, Pavlovic devises a sound and yet ambitious repertoire for Black, the basis of which is provided by the legendary and ever-popular Marshall Attack. The Marshall is a perfect weapon, as it avoids passive positions and the so-called 'Spanish torture'of many other variations. Furthermore, Black's tactical and positional objectives are usually clear-cut, and often involve a plan of direct attack against the white king.

*A complete repertoire against the Ruy Lopez

*Covers the typical plans for both sides

*Emphasizes crucial tactical ideas

*Packed with original analysis.

Published March 2009 EU, April 2009 US | ISBN 9781857445909
Format Paperback, 192 pages

http://www.everymanchess.com/chess/books/Fighting_the_Ruy_Lopez
« Last Edit: 05/04/09 at 15:37:11 by Markovich »  
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