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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 4 Pawns Attack (Read 25151 times)
Ender
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #19 - 05/02/09 at 08:50:53
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Meat wrote on 03/31/09 at 12:10:10:
Another question about the 4 pawns:
I gave it a try in a recent game and was faced with this move order:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Nf3 Bg4!? 7. Be2 c5

I intended to play the dxc5 lines against 6...c5 but could find a way to make use of black's early bishop move. So play continued

8. d5 e6 9. 0-0 exd5 10. cxd5

when we were back in the main line.
My question is: Is there any way for white to benefit from the early Bg4?



How about 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Be2!? move order?
or 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Nf3 Bg4!? 7. Be3 !?       
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Nf3 Bg4!? 7.h3 is also promising.

Check Konikowski's book for some good analysis.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #18 - 03/31/09 at 21:24:12
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@Markovich

11.ed5 is probably slightly better for White after 11...Re8 12.Kf2 followed by 'castling by hand'. I still prefer 11.cd5 when White is poised to play e5, prepared by 0-0, Be3-f2 and Rae1, but perhaps it is a matter of taste. 

I agree that 8...c5 is not forced - in the 8...Nc6 variation I gave, I originally thought that White would follow up (after 12.Qf2) with 13.Bd3 and 14.Ne2 to evict the d4-knight, but Black can try to open the centre with ...c6 or break with ...f5, so the position may not be so clear. 

@kylemeister

I checked the ECO which gives a citation starting with 7.Be3 Nfd7, but I think Black can improve on this with 7...Na6. Even so, White still seems better after 8.h3 Bf3 9.Qf3 c5 (9...e5 may be better but White still retains the advantage with 10.fe5 de5 11.d5 +=) 10.d5 e6 and now 11.de6 fe6 12.Be2 +=.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #17 - 03/31/09 at 19:38:23
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I'm not sure there's a reason to doubt the (dare I say it) ECO view that 7. Be3 is best and quite good for White.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #16 - 03/31/09 at 19:27:28
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TN wrote on 03/31/09 at 18:47:48:


I don't have a board in front of me, but 7.h3 Bf3 8.Qf3 c5 (8...Nc6 9.Be3 e5 10.fe5 de5 11.d5 Nd4 12.Qf2 seems better for White) 9.d5 e6 10.Bd3 ed5 11.cd5 offers White an improved Four Pawns Attack due to the more active placement of his pieces. 



I don't have a board either, but I wonder if 11.exd5 would be worth considering in your line, since it appears that Black will find it difficult to prevent f5.  The check on the e-file is inconvenient but perhaps not too much so.  

But I'm not sure that 8...c5 is Black's best after 8.Qxf3.
  
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TN
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #15 - 03/31/09 at 18:47:48
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Meat wrote on 03/31/09 at 12:10:10:
Another question about the 4 pawns:
I gave it a try in a recent game and was faced with this move order:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Nf3 Bg4!? 7. Be2 c5

I intended to play the dxc5 lines against 6...c5 but could find a way to make use of black's early bishop move. So play continued

8. d5 e6 9. 0-0 exd5 10. cxd5

when we were back in the main line.
My question is: Is there any way for white to benefit from the early Bg4?


I don't have a board in front of me, but 7.h3 Bf3 8.Qf3 c5 (8...Nc6 9.Be3 e5 10.fe5 de5 11.d5 Nd4 12.Qf2 seems better for White) 9.d5 e6 10.Bd3 ed5 11.cd5 offers White an improved Four Pawns Attack due to the more active placement of his pieces. 

Alternatively, 7.Be2 c5 8.d5 e6 9.de6!? may be a good choice as well, when after 9...fe6 White can consider 10.Ng5 and 10.e5!? in addition to the logical 10.0-0. However, Black can also transpose to 6...Na6 lines with 7...Na6, although I cannot remember the theoretical status of the 6...Na6 7.Be2 Bg4 variation off the top of my head. 


  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #14 - 03/31/09 at 12:10:10
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Another question about the 4 pawns:
I gave it a try in a recent game and was faced with this move order:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 0-0 6. Nf3 Bg4!? 7. Be2 c5

I intended to play the dxc5 lines against 6...c5 but could find a way to make use of black's early bishop move. So play continued

8. d5 e6 9. 0-0 exd5 10. cxd5

when we were back in the main line.
My question is: Is there any way for white to benefit from the early Bg4?
  
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Ender
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #13 - 03/29/09 at 12:36:19
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Markovich wrote on 02/09/09 at 14:51:11:
[quote author=miamisharks link=1234156085/0#0 date=1234156085]

In addition to the works mentioned here, there's an in-print book in German on the 4PA that is also worth having.  It's named, prosaically, Konigsindische Verteidigung: Vierbauern-Angriff.  It's accessible since it's written in straightforward chess German.


Is this Konikowski's book?
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #12 - 02/10/09 at 19:09:58
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TonyRo wrote on 02/10/09 at 15:49:47:
miamisharks wrote on 02/10/09 at 04:13:18:
TonyRo,

Very interesting. The main differences are that I was planning 4. a3 vs the Nimzo, and the Geller Gambit in the Slav. What do you do about the SemiSlav? I'm probably going to learn the Shabalov-Shirov gambit.

PS, if you don't mind me asking, what sort of ELO level are you competing at? Thanks for your help!


I enter the Meran as White. I have some home prep in the line: 

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Bd3 Bb7 9.e4 b4 10.Na4 c5 11.e5 Nd5 12.0-0 cxd4 13.Nxd4!? Nxe5 14.Bb5+ Nd7 15.Qh5!? 

If they play ...Nf6, then it's generally just a dead draw after some fireworks, but if they play ...g6, I have some nice lines that lead to very unbalanced positions. I play 12. dxc5 if I'm worried that they'll go into the drawing lines (lower rated...etc....)

I don't mind you asking me what rating I typically have to play against. I only play in sections that are 2000+, so it's anything above that that I'm dealing with. 



the meran-line is interesting... my main nemesis in my chessclub plays this.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #11 - 02/10/09 at 15:51:15
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Schaakhamster wrote on 02/10/09 at 14:42:39:


what would you play against QGA?



I thought I might have been forgetting one! I play either 3. e4, or 3. e3. Once Avrukh's book came out, I started looking at other lines to play that were maybe a little bit more mainstream and solid. I started to add the Catalan to my repertoire, as well as 3. e3 against the QGA, since I thought his analysis was quite good.  Grin
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #10 - 02/10/09 at 15:49:47
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miamisharks wrote on 02/10/09 at 04:13:18:
TonyRo,

Very interesting. The main differences are that I was planning 4. a3 vs the Nimzo, and the Geller Gambit in the Slav. What do you do about the SemiSlav? I'm probably going to learn the Shabalov-Shirov gambit.

PS, if you don't mind me asking, what sort of ELO level are you competing at? Thanks for your help!


I enter the Meran as White. I have some home prep in the line: 

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Bd3 Bb7 9.e4 b4 10.Na4 c5 11.e5 Nd5 12.0-0 cxd4 13.Nxd4!? Nxe5 14.Bb5+ Nd7 15.Qh5!? 

If they play ...Nf6, then it's generally just a dead draw after some fireworks, but if they play ...g6, I have some nice lines that lead to very unbalanced positions. I play 12. dxc5 if I'm worried that they'll go into the drawing lines (lower rated...etc....)

I don't mind you asking me what rating I typically have to play against. I only play in sections that are 2000+, so it's anything above that that I'm dealing with. 

  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #9 - 02/10/09 at 14:42:39
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TonyRo wrote on 02/09/09 at 23:48:50:
It looks as though you're adapting my repertoire for White: 

I play: 

4 Pawns against the KID
Exchange with Nf3 and Rb1 against the Grunfeld
4. f3 against the Nimzo
Zaitsev against the Benko
5. a4 and 6. Ne5 against the Slav
Bf4 systems with 0-0-0 if allowed in the QGD 
Staunton with Bg5, d5, Qe2 against the Dutch

It's a nice repetoire. None of the lines are unsound or bad, and they lend quite well to specialization, etc...since they still have amassed theory that's quite sharp. I've scored really, really well with this repertoire. 

Regarding the Zaitsev, it's certainly interesting, and very little played, so you stand good chances of surprising people. You can reach some really bizarre positions, most of which are quite un-Benko like. 

Good luck, feel free to ask more questions. Quite an interesting thread for me.... Grin


what would you play against QGA?


  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #8 - 02/10/09 at 13:43:47
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Yeah, Taylor is not actually talking about a 4PA, but a Maroczy where White has f4 in -- reached via a 4PA move-order.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #7 - 02/10/09 at 05:47:48
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TonyRo wrote on 02/09/09 at 14:29:28:
I love the 4-pawns, and have played it as my main weapon against the KID for as long as I've been playing 1. d4. I think both "Beating the KID and Benoni" and "The Fearsome Four Pawns Attack" are both great books. The former is written by an expert on the 4P's, and is quite good, with more explanation, but still a lot of theory. Sometimes I prefer to use this book because it's a little easier to follow and learn from. The Fearsome Four Pawns Attack is much denser, thicker, and contains a lot more information. Also, it gives some more aggressive treatments than in Vaisser's book. I'd say both are worth having. A lot of times when I'm preparing a line in the 4P's I use Vaisser's book first to try to understand everything and build the theory up, then I use the Fearsome Four to extend my knowledge and as a reference after I've played the line in question a few times. Get both! Cheesy


Thanks for reminding me about the Fearsome Four Pawns Attack. That is an extremely good reference that, according to the reviews I have seen of the book, even arm both sides with several promising novelties.

I haven't seen Vaisser's book, but I have heard that it is very good, an opinion shared by IM Silman in the following review: http://slavchess.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_33_15&products_id=....

Finally, I recommend you avoid Taylor's book "Beating the King's Indian and Grunfeld". The following review more or less states my opinion of the book: http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwatsonbkrev78.html. Watson also gives a positive review of "The Fearsome Four Pawns Attack" in the same review.
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #6 - 02/10/09 at 04:13:18
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TonyRo,

Very interesting. The main differences are that I was planning 4. a3 vs the Nimzo, and the Geller Gambit in the Slav. What do you do about the SemiSlav? I'm probably going to learn the Shabalov-Shirov gambit.

PS, if you don't mind me asking, what sort of ELO level are you competing at? Thanks for your help!
  
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Re: 4 Pawns Attack
Reply #5 - 02/09/09 at 23:48:50
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It looks as though you're adapting my repertoire for White: 

I play: 

4 Pawns against the KID
Exchange with Nf3 and Rb1 against the Grunfeld
4. f3 against the Nimzo
Zaitsev against the Benko
5. a4 and 6. Ne5 against the Slav
Bf4 systems with 0-0-0 if allowed in the QGD 
Staunton with Bg5, d5, Qe2 against the Dutch

It's a nice repetoire. None of the lines are unsound or bad, and they lend quite well to specialization, etc...since they still have amassed theory that's quite sharp. I've scored really, really well with this repertoire. 

Regarding the Zaitsev, it's certainly interesting, and very little played, so you stand good chances of surprising people. You can reach some really bizarre positions, most of which are quite un-Benko like. 

Good luck, feel free to ask more questions. Quite an interesting thread for me.... Grin
  
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