Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Alekine or Modern/Pirc (Read 7907 times)
Holbox
Senior Member
****
Offline


Saigón Café

Posts: 369
Joined: 02/08/05
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #13 - 03/09/09 at 11:12:12
Post Tools
Quote:
Guess someone must have been enjoying some mushrooms.


Mexican's please Tongue
  

"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2338
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #12 - 03/09/09 at 10:38:55
Post Tools
Holbox wrote on 03/09/09 at 09:01:04:
Quote:
but for some reason the Alekhine has never tempted me.


I think that chess openings are in some ways like food. There are food you like and food you don't like. Well in this case I have found Alekhine, Grunfeld and Nf6 Scandinanvian too ACID to my taste. But King's Indian, French and even Pirc (this is a bit more SOUR) really SWEET, and I really love sweet food.



Guess someone must have been enjoying some mushrooms.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Holbox
Senior Member
****
Offline


Saigón Café

Posts: 369
Joined: 02/08/05
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #11 - 03/09/09 at 09:01:04
Post Tools
Quote:
but for some reason the Alekhine has never tempted me.


I think that chess openings are in some ways like food. There are food you like and food you don't like. Well in this case I have found Alekhine, Grunfeld and Nf6 Scandinanvian too ACID to my taste. But King's Indian, French and even Pirc (this is a bit more SOUR) really SWEET, and I really love sweet food.

  

"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #10 - 03/09/09 at 08:11:48
Post Tools
Zatara wrote on 03/07/09 at 05:05:05:
Thanks Guys, very helpful, especailly thibdb13!!!!!!
Zatara

You are welcome  Wink
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #9 - 03/07/09 at 12:25:57
Post Tools
thibdb13 wrote on 03/06/09 at 08:43:33:
A problem of both defenses is what to do when white "declines" them.


Celebrate!

thibdb13 wrote on 03/06/09 at 08:43:33:
Another thing is that both these openings are quite addictive. Once you strat playing them it is quite difficult to stop with them even after having being crushed.


So true.

I have played the Sicilian (Dragon), Modern/Pirc (my current addiction), Scandinavian and French, and considered playing 1. ...e5 and the Caro-Kann, but for some reason the Alekhine has never tempted me.

Maybe I just not found the right book  Huh


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cyronix
Ex Member
*



Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #8 - 03/07/09 at 12:21:21
Post Tools
The alekhine is more positional than the pirc/modern.
The pirc/modern is more tactical.
In the alekhine you lose "tempi" (or whatever the plural form of "tempo" is), and therefore it is much more difficult to get an edge due to the opening. But I think it might be easier to equalize with the alekhine.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatara
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 422
Location: Virginia
Joined: 02/26/08
Gender: Male
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #7 - 03/07/09 at 05:05:05
Post Tools
Thanks Guys, very helpful, especailly thibdb13!!!!!!
Zatara
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whitlingham
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 03/03/09
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #6 - 03/06/09 at 18:51:56
Post Tools
Zatara, I don't think you should worry about the reputation these openings have at the top level. All the openings you mention are perfecly playable as your main opening up to master level (~ELO 2200), and possibly above that as well. In fact, you may even want to play the one that has the worse "reputation", as it will be less played, and hence less known at your level.

Study them all a little bit and pick the one that you like best.

-Whit
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #5 - 03/06/09 at 08:43:33
Post Tools
My personnal impression is that the Pirc has a better reputation at clublevel (it is plaid more often = more players believe in it than in the Alekhine).
I do not know at which level your are playing but there are two two you certainly have to know:
- both the Pirc and the Alekhine are quite difficult to play and you will need some experience before understanding them correctly
- you have to feel comfortable in the arising positions to be able to handle them. The Alekhine nor the Pirc is everyone's cup of tea  Wink

It is also easier for black in some variations of the Pirc to play very aggressively just from the beginning of the game. With the Alekhine, you will have to be more patient in (nearly) all variations.
I have used for years the Pirc as secund defense and  it is quite usefull (for example when white "refuses" the Alekhine with 2.Nc3) and so I try to get the same type of positions in the Alekhine by playing g6 when it is possible (modern with 4. Nf3 and exchange variation with 5.ed6-cd6).
A problem of both defenses is what to do when white "declines" them. When playing the Pirc, you should have some knowledge of the closed sicilian and related systems. With the Alekhine, you will have to know more: the Pirc and closed sicilian (in case of 2.Nc3), the French (2.d3) and eventually the Vienna or the e4-e5 games when countering 2.Nc3 with e5. So I'd say it is a bit more difficult to be good prepared when playing the Alekhine.
Another thing is that both these openings are quite addictive. Once you strat playing them it is quite difficult to stop with them even after having being crushed.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatara
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 422
Location: Virginia
Joined: 02/26/08
Gender: Male
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #4 - 03/06/09 at 04:50:11
Post Tools
Hi Bibs,
No I don't ask for the sport of it...  I really want to know about the reputation and strength of the opening. 
Lets say: which sicilian is sharper and which has better reputation:
This is a kind of question I have asked: 
Lets say Najdorf, Accelrated Dragon and classical sicilian:
SO they say the Najdorf is sharpest and has best reputation and it is relatively hard to make boring positions
The accerlated Dragon can be passive especailly in Maroczy bind positions
The classical is ok except for the Rauzer where white seems to be better. 

so this answers which sicilian is sharper, has better reputation.  Also if people can say all of the above variations are shaprer but no better than say the Marshall or Archangel in the Ruy.  This helps in making choices.  Things I don't want to be with my questions: annoying and irelavent.   Sorry Bibs if they are annoying.  You guys are such strong players that I think you can answer my question and give interesting additional information, as was done in the Alekine/Modern question.   I just aren't sure about which opening to play so I ask.  One question I don't know the answer to is which is sharper and better reputation the sicilian Kan or the Taimanov?  finding out the aswer will direct my study time when I study openings...  I mean the Kan or taimonov is not the Dragon but is it as sharp as the Archangel?  How do you decide when it isn't so clear cut which is sharper and has better repustion???  If I knew how to do that with variations like the Kan or Tiamanov I would not ask this type of qeustion.  That is my convaluded aswer.  Again I don't mean to annoy but to learn.  If I have annoyed you Bibs I am sorry...
Thanks,
Zatara
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
zoo
Ex Member


Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #3 - 03/05/09 at 11:13:53
Post Tools
the Alekhine is a popular "plan B" in tournaments, when the stronger player seeks variety or needs to fix a mainline ; as a rule, he first checks that his victim doesn't play the 4 pawns, and then hopes to grind out a technical win. On the other hand, the Pirc is much more commiting, and needs dedicated study.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 2338
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #2 - 03/05/09 at 11:03:38
Post Tools
Zatara

You have asked what seems to a small variation on the same basic question many dozens of times about most openings now.

You ask just for the sport of it? Why do you ask? What do you hope to gain?

If you are more concrete with your queries people can help you, and others, more.

best,
Bibs

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Whitlingham
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 7
Joined: 03/03/09
Re: Alekine or Modern/Pirc
Reply #1 - 03/05/09 at 10:12:08
Post Tools
Well, it probably depends on what you mean by "better reputation".

My feeling is that at club level the Modern/Pirc is more common. At grandmaster level it is roughly the same and at super-GM level the Alekhine has maybe been more common lately (e.g. Carlsen and Nakamura has played it).

-Whit
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatara
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 422
Location: Virginia
Joined: 02/26/08
Gender: Male
Alekine or Modern/Pirc
02/17/09 at 21:55:38
Post Tools
Hi everyone,
I am wondering which has a better reputation the Modern/Pirc or the Alekine's defence??
Thanks,
Zatara
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo