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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C01: French Exchange for White (Read 26659 times)
saubhikr
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #8 - 02/19/09 at 00:56:55
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Just play Frech in Cafe section of playchess.com. My record shows 65% of the games are exchange variation, 20% advance and remaining mostly Nc3. Will get enough practice.
  
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Crapov
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #7 - 02/19/09 at 00:43:31
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If you're gonna play the exchange i think the only move that troubles black a bit is 4.c4. Unlike many others I quite enjoy playing black against the exchange. I've studied it a lot and have a tremendous score against it (+9 -1)
  
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JonathanB
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #6 - 02/18/09 at 21:56:20
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Dink Heckler wrote on 02/18/09 at 15:46:04:
So, motivational guff apart, how does White set about setting Black some issues in the Exchange?


Well you probably want to start by taking a look at Kasparov's French exchange games...

http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com/2009/01/interesting-french-exchange-ix...
  

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kylemeister
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #5 - 02/18/09 at 21:36:32
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White could be aiming for a reverse Tarrasch French, in which his extra tempo enables him to better fight for control of d5.  Compare 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. ed ed 5. Ngf3 Nc6 6. Bb5 Bd6 7. dc Bxc5 8. 0-0 Nge7 9. Nb3 Bb6, when 10. Re1 prevents 10...Nf5 and prepares 11. Be3.  Associated with that is the idea of trying to give Black trouble with his QB, e.g. with Ng3 plus f4 and f5 if Black plays ...Bf5 and ...Bg6, as in a game Wolff - Dreev (in which White was clearly better, although he lost).
  
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Markovich
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #4 - 02/18/09 at 20:48:50
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kylemeister wrote on 02/18/09 at 20:40:23:
I don't get the admonition against Nge2, though; actually of the three GMs I can readily think of who have played this 4. c4 line, two of them preferred the Bd3 plus Nge2 treatment.


I'm just giving my own understanding, admittedly that of an amateur.  I must admit I don't see the point of Nge2, nor would I normally want my knight on e2 with an IQP.  I would be happy to hear anyone explain here why it's a good idea.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #3 - 02/18/09 at 20:40:23
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This reminds me of Edmar Mednis's chapter on the Exchange in "Practical Opening Tips"; his (brief) discussion of c4 centered on the position 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 c6, which as he pointed out can also be reached via the Slav (the Winawer Counter Gambit Declined, if you will).  Of course this c4 stuff also has similarities to/transpositional overlap with lines of the QGA and Petroff.

I don't get the admonition against Nge2, though; actually of the three GMs I can readily think of who have played this 4. c4 line, two of them preferred the Bd3 plus Nge2 treatment.
  
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Markovich
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #2 - 02/18/09 at 19:01:58
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Littlewing wrote on 02/18/09 at 16:55:18:
I play the French as black.

I don't mind the regular Exchange lines in which I can play a set-up with Ne7, Nc6, Bd6 and Bg4 of f5. With f6, g5 and 0-0-0 on the cards this is playable and interesting enough for black.

I think the Exchange with  a quick c4 is more annoying, although I do believe black is okay. He has a clear plan of controlling d5 and sucking up the energy of the white pieces. If it works black has a nice endgame, if it doesn't work, he has problems.

I do however get into trouble when I get move-ordered into putting a Knight on f6.  This happens when I try to get my usual Classical French on the board. If white exchanges then, I can't play Ne7 anymore. Objectively this must be okay, but I don't like it and have gotten myself into trouble a couple of times, mostly because of a pin with Bg5 and subsequently a Knight on e5.

The drawback for White is that he almost has to put a Knight on c3 tot get me to play Nf6 and still be able to play Bg5. In this case he also must be prepared to play the Winawer, or play an Exchange against the Winawer.  

Interested how others feel about this.


I know that Watson advocated this ...Ne7 in combination with ...Bb4 but I can't see why it's so important.  Maybe someone who understands this can explain it to me.  I've looked at it at some length and concluded that whether the knight is on f6 or e7, White should develop (after c2-c4) Nf3, Nc3, Bd3 and 0-0.  If checked down the e-file he puts Be3 and sacs a pawn on that square in case Black wants to win one.  It absolutely doesn't matter to the correctness of this e3 pawn-sac whether Black first plays any combination of ...Bxc3+ and ...dxc4 -- or whether a rook or queen (or even a knight after ...Rxe3 first) takes last on e3.  So whether Black's knight takes on e3 from f5 or g4, it is all the same.  Black is well advised not to swap on e3, however.

The important thing for White is not to f-rt around with such tepid moves as Nge2 or Be2, but instead just play ahead into an ordinary IQP game and dare Black to do his worst.  White generally meets an early ...Bg4 either with cxd4, Qb3 or with an immediate Qb3.

I agree that Black is O.K. here but White does have interesting play, and this line is a good way for White to insist on an open position.  That's why I recommend it to my students.  

If I were Black against this I might well play an early ...c6 and take on c4 only with reluctance.  However I don't think that there are any magic solutions for Black.

@Dink:  If you like the IQP, this 2.c4 (or 2.Nf3, 3.c4) thingie may well be what you're looking for.
  

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Littlewing
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Re: French Exchange for White
Reply #1 - 02/18/09 at 16:55:18
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I play the French as black.

I don't mind the regular Exchange lines in which I can play a set-up with Ne7, Nc6, Bd6 and Bg4 of f5. With f6, g5 and 0-0-0 on the cards this is playable and interesting enough for black.

I think the Exchange with  a quick c4 is more annoying, although I do believe black is okay. He has a clear plan of controlling d5 and sucking up the energy of the white pieces. If it works black has a nice endgame, if it doesn't work, he has problems.

I do however get into trouble when I get move-ordered into putting a Knight on f6.  This happens when I try to get my usual Classical French on the board. If white exchanges then, I can't play Ne7 anymore. Objectively this must be okay, but I don't like it and have gotten myself into trouble a couple of times, mostly because of a pin with Bg5 and subsequently a Knight on e5.

The drawback for White is that he almost has to put a Knight on c3 tot get me to play Nf6 and still be able to play Bg5. In this case he also must be prepared to play the Winawer, or play an Exchange against the Winawer. 

Interested how others feel about this.
  
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Dink Heckler
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C01: French Exchange for White
02/18/09 at 15:46:04
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I'm looking for some approaches to twist Black's tail in the French Exchange. Now most of the literature seems to be written from a Black perspective, and has the flavour of 'well, if some snivelling draw-seeking bastard plays this against you, here's how to liven things up'. Now some of this might be solid, but a lot of it is probably just bravado, rally the troops stuff.
I don't think I've ever seen a serious treatment from White's perspective. So, motivational guff apart, how does White set about setting Black some issues in the Exchange?

Reason I ask is that I get a lot of Dutch players playing the 1) d4 e6 move order. I'd like to be able to discomfit them by segueing from a Dutch to an Exchange French.

Any ideas, or am I going to get a torrent of barely plausible 'Black is already better in the Exchange' tough talk?  Smiley
« Last Edit: 07/21/11 at 19:38:58 by dom »  

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